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Fast Luck posted:Yeah she screwed up big time. You'd think given that they're basically in love that, once she was immune, he would be her very first thought and not the safety of, like, Carson and Heidi or whoever was on her side of the arbitrary split. I guess just the drive to win the challenge outweighed everything, but you gotta be smarter than that. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seemed liked Heidi realized this, which is why she came to Frannie and said 'I don't think I can save Matt.' In the end I think she just did what Frannie told her so as not to piss off her Soka alliance. If Heidi's really lucky/good, maybe she can convince Yam-Yam that putting the vote on him was indeed a bluff in order to protect him. E: Also, seriously either stop loving with the vote or just say on Day 1 "Hey we're doing Nightmare Survivor this season, every vote will have some hinky rule change to work around, good luck." The first few minutes of this episode were people trying to actually play Survivor, there were two competing plans coalescing, and then Jeff kool-aid mans through the jungle to dunk it all in the trash. Leatherhead fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 14:51
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Oh no after 17 years my first 'quote is not edit'
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Apr 13, 2023 14:54
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What a dogshit episode
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Apr 13, 2023 15:10
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 NO SAY. they have NO SAY (except the advantage where they control a vote???) Jeff spilled more on the fire token island theme idea he had. https://twitter.com/JohnLawMedia/status/1646512384935354369 Honestly it could've been an interesting experiment, better than just constantly putting people in 5 person votes where the votes are stolen
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Apr 13, 2023 15:48
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It's time to send Jeff to a farm upstate
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Apr 13, 2023 15:56
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Nihonniboku posted:It's time to send Jeff to
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Apr 13, 2023 16:07
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This idea of Frannie throwing the reward being smart is true, and it does bring me back to the Michelle Yi twist in Fiji. If Earl and Yau had thrown the challenge, they could have just nailed Edgardo or something instead of throwing her to three of the four horsemen.
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Apr 13, 2023 16:30
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https://twitter.com/AMikeBloomType/status/1646536133155725312?t=xNpVsJmzQao7zLT-1j194Q&s=19
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Apr 13, 2023 16:36
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That makes me happy. Matt was a bright spot on this season, and was a total joy to watch. I'm bummed that he was voted out last night, I didn't think he stood a chance at winning, and at this point I'm all about voting out anyone but Carolyn, the new Queen of Survivor.
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Apr 13, 2023 16:51
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Speaking of the other half of the tribe, Heidi throws a bit of a spanner in the works with this "Choose a Vote" advantage. What was your reaction to when she played it? I mean, the emotional whiplash of that Tribal Council was off the charts. I've never experienced any roller coaster of emotion like that. I mean, it's a cliche phrase, but it's true. Because I'm thinking, "I'm gone. There's no hope for me. I'm out of the game." And I'm crying about it in front of everyone, just processing this. And then Heidi stands up, like, "I have got an advantage. I control the vote." I'm like, "I am saved. My bacon has been saved. This is beautiful for me." If she put any Ratu on any other Ratu, Yam and I would definitely have voted together. She would have saved us both. But she chose not to do that. So when she said, "Lauren on Yam Yam," right back down. (Laughs.) I was like, "I'm screwed again. That changes nothing." heidi alienated/lost: yamyam, carolyn (put a vote against yam yam) lauren, potentially brandon (stole laurens vote and used it in a different direction than she wanted to) franny, matt (didnt save matt and he got voted out) Definitely kind of flummoxed by the play. Was it her trying to just throw it away... idgi... then she should've just stolen yamyam's vote and used it on Matt or vice versa right?
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Apr 13, 2023 17:00
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I don't blame Frannie for not throwing once she got immunity to save Matt, even without the factor of having very little to eat for the last two weeks and the reward for winning being a bunch of food, the amount of focus that challenge seems to require would make it pretty hard to think about the benefits of throwing to make sure your biggest ally is safe. But also I agree about all the twists. I think I skipped the entire tribal council and the last few minutes of pre-tribal to just see the advantage played because that's all that mattered. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 17:31
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It's still really funny to me that Mike White understands the game so much better than Probst does, having actually played it He got rid of Fire Tokens for us
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Apr 13, 2023 18:48
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Jeff Probst is trending on twitter so I clicked his name and this was the top result https://twitter.com/suRYvor/status/1646417512655994880
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Apr 13, 2023 19:35
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Fast Luck posted:heidi alienated/lost: Pretty much this. My only reasoning is she thought that it would get Yam-Yam out and only betray Carolyn, which is pretty stupid on several levels. Even stupider than the twist 
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Apr 13, 2023 20:43
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Fast Luck posted:
If Heidi has a clue about Jamie's idol (possible) then it does absolutely nothing to get both of them to vote for Jamie. And everyone DOES know about Lauren's double vote, so stealing Jamie's vote to vote for Lauren doesn't work either. https://twitter.com/ShannonGaitz/status/1646433782873088001 curiousCat fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 21:05
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't blame Frannie for not throwing once she got immunity to save Matt, even without the factor of having very little to eat for the last two weeks and the reward for winning being a bunch of food, the amount of focus that challenge seems to require would make it pretty hard to think about the benefits of throwing to make sure your biggest ally is safe. There was a funny part early tribal with a papaya, but unless you're invested in the emotional payoff of Carolyn/Yam and Frannie/Matt, there wasn't much point in watching this one yeah. Fast Luck posted:Players don't even pagong anymore really! When is the last really bad one? Worlds Apart, I guess? Outside of one idol play, No Collars other than Will got wiped out pretty early in the merge. But that's a three tribe format so a fairly short pagong. Beyond that you're looking at South Pacific/One World.
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Apr 13, 2023 22:40
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Ghost Island was pretty much a pagonging.
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Apr 13, 2023 22:56
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It’s kind of interesting this is the episode that seems to have really had explosive backlash because they’ve split the merge tribe a few times before and it’s never bothered people that much. The vote control thing yes was yet another unnecessary advantage but it didn’t work or change anything. I wonder if some of the anger comes from Matt going out and the Frankinship getting split?garthoneeye posted:Ghost Island was pretty much a pagonging. curiousCat posted:If Heidi has a clue about Jamie's idol (possible) then it does absolutely nothing to get both of them to vote for Jamie. And everyone DOES know about Lauren's double vote, so stealing Jamie's vote to vote for Lauren doesn't work either. Matt Yam Brandon (stolen) vs Lauren Lauren Jaime (3-3) Revote:
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Apr 14, 2023 01:06
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I really did not like that vote control twist.
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Apr 14, 2023 01:24
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Rick posted:I really did not like that vote control twist. Survivor Season 44: I really did not like that twist
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Apr 14, 2023 01:34
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I hope next week they do a tribe split endurance challenge again, with each split winner getting immunity. Then, at tribal council Jeff announces that the the necklaces are actually anti-immunity and the two players who thought they were immune are the only players who can receive votes. Make me a producer.
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Apr 14, 2023 02:34
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I took Frannie and Matt off my roster bc figured they'd be targeted down sooner or later but... Wasn't expecting Matt to get jeff'd
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Apr 14, 2023 03:51
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Hot drat. There were a ton of new posts in here and I was expecting to find out Matt was a sex monster or something. I dunno. I'm more or less enjoying this season? Its a likable cast and I'm incredibly used to the screwiness of the game. I think I'm actually largely over "the game" and "puppetmasters" and the like anyway. I'm just a mindless potato giggling at the adorkable couple. Besides the advantages didn't even do anything did they? Heidi didn't get her target out and she actually burned another advantage. So score one for the advantage haters, right? But yeah I think everyone screwed up. I'm not that hard on Frannie not gaming out throwing the challenge in the moment. Everyone's mind is too fried to be like working game theory about throwing things in the middle of a concentration challenge while everyone's watching. Matt and Yam Yam should have voted together. Its like 50/50 one of you is going home and you're at the mercy of the three. So gently caress it. Take a swing. Worst case its still 50/50. You can only improve your odds. And yeah, Heidi hosed up. Its a lovely advantage you have no real control over that's gonna piss people off so just take the swing too. You can't think Yam Yam is the biggest threat there and I don't buy some double secret mastermind bluff to get Matt out. MAYBE she figured the only benefit was to burn Lauren's vote but just have her vote one of the other two. Throw a curve and see if it fucks poo poo up. What do you get out of this besides people mad at you? I dunno. I'm still pretty ok with the episode and show though. Wasn't at all prepared for the thread reaction. But yeah, what can I say? I just don't care about the integrity of the game I guess. I'm a philistine. I'm just sad Frannie cried. garthoneeye posted:Ghost Island was pretty much a pagonging. I feel like they gently caress with the tribes enough that we don't get true Pagonging's anymore but like we still get the basic idea of a majority picking off the target of least resistance each week. The issue isn't one tribe taking down one tribe. Its the boredom of lopsided votes after lopsided votes. And I think that still happens fairly regularly if not in a full chain.
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Apr 14, 2023 05:41
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The immunity challenge is pretty good imo  Last Pagonging per the Survivor Wiki is HvHvH, which yeah that makes sense. 42 has the extremely funny psuedo-gonging where the Tika 4 stood until final 6.
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Apr 14, 2023 06:42
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Fast Luck posted:It’s kind of interesting this is the episode that seems to have really had explosive backlash because they’ve split the merge tribe a few times before and it’s never bothered people that much. The vote control thing yes was yet another unnecessary advantage but it didn’t work or change anything. I wonder if some of the anger comes from Matt going out and the Frankinship getting split? I think it's because we've now had two episodes since the merge where they split the tribe in two. Like, the merge is a super exciting part of survivor where you finally get to see all these players come together. But instead it was this garbage. And I think it was made worse by the start of the episode having some great organic gameplay that was immediately invalidated. And then the twist has another twist inside of it where in your 5 person tribe you could lose control of your vote due to something you could not have foreseen. Any of these twists in isolation would not get nearly this response. But because it is one after another right at what is many people's favorite part of the show (the merge) it became the straw that broke the camel's back. And that's ignoring the numerous other dumb advantages and twists they had premerge. It's actually reached the point where it doesn't feel like I'm watching Survivor. I get a glimpse of it for a scene or two an episode. And the casting is great as always so keeps me coming back. But most of the show now is just random bullshit happening. I just want to watch the cast talk to each other and strategize around each other. '
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Apr 14, 2023 07:37
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Having 7 people immune when there are 11 players left is not going to make for happy reactions to the episode in the first place, and they couldn’t even stop it there, they had to add some dumb bastard mod vote bullshit on top of it (even if it didn’t end up mattering). The best advantage-centric episodes (and I mean relatively) are the ones where the bottom players work together and trust each other for a big flip—dan or johnny mundo’s boot from DvG comes to mind, for example. They explicitly prevented that from happening by separating the groups before the advantage was even in play. I don’t even know what the episode would have looked like if everything went as well as Jeff hoped. But the iteration we got where Matt was gone the minute they pulled the rocks out before the challenge? Not incredible television!!!
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Apr 14, 2023 08:17
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Also speaking of Rick Devens, he popped up on Dropout’s survivor episode last week and didn’t really do his breaking news bit once, how sad
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Apr 14, 2023 08:19
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The tribal split was pretty similar to the Gabon final split. Which imo, is cool and good since that split utterly hosed up the season. Maybe this will turn into Gabon and the final 3 will be uhhh Carolyn, Heidi, and Kane. If that happens it will be a good split. In all other circumstances it will have been Dumb
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Apr 14, 2023 08:48
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Rob Cesternino had an interesting take on the podcast this week which was that what survivor is really loving up is the framing. He pointed out that this would have been an early merge anyway, and what we effectively got was a 3-to-2 tribe change, then a tribe swap, and now theoretically a merge at 10 which is the classic size anyway. But in Jeff's quest to 'stay ahead of the players' he called it all a merge and thus gave both the players and the audience false expectations, where now the 'merge' has been ruined. I think it's an interesting point, and I can actually see how it makes sense to have everyone living together before the real merge if you're going to start the jury, so that you don't have the problem where some jury members don't even know the players who make it to FTC.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:12
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Leatherhead posted:Rob Cesternino had an interesting take on the podcast this week which was that what survivor is really loving up is the framing. He pointed out that this would have been an early merge anyway, and what we effectively got was a 3-to-2 tribe change, then a tribe swap, and now theoretically a merge at 10 which is the classic size anyway. But in Jeff's quest to 'stay ahead of the players' he called it all a merge and thus gave both the players and the audience false expectations, where now the 'merge' has been ruined. But yeah, end of the day Matt's ouster was very much like a swap screw, which is something that has happened occasionally for a long time. Bigger picture though, there hasn't been a normal vote yet and the big question is whether they will let there be normal votes as we move forward. Maddy - 3 players didn't vote, all-in-all this TC felt like a self-parody of the new era Helen - Sarah lost her vote which was possibly a major reason Carson landed where he did Claire - Matt lost his vote, otherwise I do think this would've been Josh going out Sarah - Josh played the free idol they gave him Josh - Half players immune, Matt lost his vote again Matt - Split tribe with a vote controlled by the other side Not one normal vote so far - what is this show?
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Apr 14, 2023 15:11
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Fast Luck posted:Not one normal vote so far - what is this show? The result of whatever Jeff started smoking during COVID. He looks loving crazy, and tribal councils are not what they used to be. He doesn't get any insight out of the players, he just wants them to agree to his genius at cutting the game short and making it "harder."
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Apr 14, 2023 15:16
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This might seem more cruel than I intend it (which is not at all), but a lot of things here just really stick out to me.STAC Goat posted:I dunno. I'm more or less enjoying this season? Its a likable cast and I'm incredibly used to the screwiness of the game. I think I'm actually largely over "the game" and "puppetmasters" and the like anyway. I'm just a mindless potato giggling at the adorkable couple. Your tastes evolving is fine, but I think people do themselves a disservice by accepting a poor product and attributing that acceptance to being incurious. I also think that's a good way for the show to lose fans like us in the long run. STAC Goat posted:Besides the advantages didn't even do anything did they? Heidi didn't get her target out and she actually burned another advantage. So score one for the advantage haters, right? Here's a Probstian analogy that might help illustrate why people hate this despite the advantage not having an immediate impact: Someone puts a gun in front of a small child with a single bullet in it. The child picks it up and fires into the ground. No serious damage was done, but someone still put a gun in the hands of a child, which should not happen. STAC Goat posted:But yeah I think everyone screwed up. I'm not that hard on Frannie not gaming out throwing the challenge in the moment. Everyone's mind is too fried to be like working game theory about throwing things in the middle of a concentration challenge while everyone's watching. Here you're 100% right. Frannie is getting a lot of flak online for not throwing the challenge to save Matt and target Danny, but there's no winning for women in the challenge game of the New Era. Either: 1. You sit out challenges so your team has the best chance to win, like Claire, and Probst calls you out for it and you go home, or 2. You throw, and Probst calls you out for it because he has always hated that going back to at least Survivor: China, or 3. You prove you can beat everyone in the kind of bland endurance challenges this game does nowadays like Frannie did, and the more typical Challenge Beast Guys like Brandon target you for it Frannie also didn't know that the losers would immediately be sequestered from the winners without their belongings, so, again, the players are trying to play with incomplete information at the whims of the producers. Matt's idol was of course useless, but especially once Heidi misplayed her vote hijack he could have at least used his dumbass Shot In The Dark. (which, needing the little trinket for that is also fuckin stupid, just let them make the decision in the voting booth) STAC Goat posted:Matt and Yam Yam should have voted together. Its like 50/50 one of you is going home and you're at the mercy of the three. So gently caress it. Take a swing. Worst case its still 50/50. You can only improve your odds. And yeah, Heidi hosed up. Its a lovely advantage you have no real control over that's gonna piss people off so just take the swing too. You can't think Yam Yam is the biggest threat there and I don't buy some double secret mastermind bluff to get Matt out. MAYBE she figured the only benefit was to burn Lauren's vote but just have her vote one of the other two. Throw a curve and see if it fucks poo poo up. What do you get out of this besides people mad at you? There's a lot of every Tribal Council we don't see, but from what we did see Brandon made it crystal clear that the 3 Old Ratu were voting as a bloc and there was no getting around that. The only way this might have changed would have been for Heidi to take Brandon or Jaime's vote and put that on Lauren. When she didn't do that, Matt's fate was sealed. Go back and look at how completely unbothered Lauren is about her vote being hijacked. Even in the voting booth she just held up her hijacked vote and shrugged. The way Heidi played it, she did nothing but upset her alliance, which probably means everyone will see that and want to take her to the end now as this season's 0-vote-goat. Even this is not entirely her fault, because they're not psychic, and Heidi might have known how to use her advantage more effectively if the two randomly-assigned teams hadn't been sequestered until right before Tribal. Fast Luck posted:It’s kind of interesting this is the episode that seems to have really had explosive backlash because they’ve split the merge tribe a few times before and it’s never bothered people that much. The vote control thing yes was yet another unnecessary advantage but it didn’t work or change anything. I wonder if some of the anger comes from Matt going out and the Frankinship getting split? The frustration at the F10 split they've done in every New Era season isn't new (this split has sucked rear end every time), but I think the particular brand from this season is coming from two places: 1. The winning half having no agency over the game at yet another odd-numbered vote, which typically are always more important than even-numbered votes 2. As others have said, this being the 6th vote in the game and there not having been a single normal vote up to this point. I feel like it just took some people longer than others to catch on to that and get bothered. But yes, Matt and Frannie are two of the only people we knew much of anything about out of eleven remaining players. So, when Matt gets screwed for basically the whole game (only a small part of which was his own doing in losing his second vote), we must conclude that Survivor Sucks. So like, who even has a chance to win anymore besides Frannie or someone from Tika?
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Apr 14, 2023 19:42
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Malcolm has some thoughts about the current discourse. It's multiple tweets, so click through. https://twitter.com/MalcolmWHW/status/1646889657655873537 tl;dr: This on CBS who will only write a $20 million check for each season, so Jeff and the other producers have to try and sell executives who haven't watched the show in 20 years on new seasons with "exciting" new twists to warrant renewing the show for a new season. Jeff is trying save the jobs of 300 people, many of whom have been with the show since the beginning and feel like family to him.
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Apr 14, 2023 21:29
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Nihonniboku posted:Malcolm has some thoughts about the current discourse. It's multiple tweets, so click through. Hard disagree. It’s been clear that Jeff sucks as a show runner for a while. Great host, but biased tremendously towards things that suck (dudebro challenge beasts, big moves, advantages, twists). And if he really is getting 10 of the 20 mil spent per season lol
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Apr 14, 2023 21:36
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mp5 posted:There's a lot of every Tribal Council we don't see, but from what we did see Brandon made it crystal clear that the 3 Old Ratu were voting as a bloc and there was no getting around that. But no I don't think Heidi, Matt/Yam Yam, or Frannie did anything especially unforgivably foolish. They're all forced to make quick decisions with incomplete information and little control. I think they all probably screwed up but I also can't say I would have done better. In Frannie's case I give her a pass because it was truly spur of the moment and incomplete info and as you said there's a very no win standard for women like her in this game in situations like this. For Matt and Yam Yam I guess I just figure they were both powerless and 50/50 odds of going home so there's no real harm in trying to take a shot and I rather go down swinging then waiting patiently. And for Heidi its just looking for what her plan and intentions were and its not terribly clear. But ultimately they're all starving, exhausted, paranoid messes being hosed with by production.
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Apr 14, 2023 21:40
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I don't remember if the Ratu bloc is aligned with the Soka bloc at all but if they aren't then I feel like not putting a Ratu vote onto another Ratu was worse than just not playing the advantage at all. It lets Matt and Yam Yam put their votes on that person to make it three, which means you either get one of them out and save the two you wanted to save most, force Lauren to use her extra vote (flush a known advantage), or force Jamie to use her idol (an unknown advantage!). So now the only thing she accomplished is make it known that she has no intention of working with Carolyn and Yam Yam. e: actually I don't even remember anymore is Jamie's idol real or fake? Maybe she has a different advantage that's real that I forgot about?
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Apr 14, 2023 21:51
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't remember if the Ratu bloc is aligned with the Soka bloc at all but if they aren't then I feel like not putting a Ratu vote onto another Ratu was worse than just not playing the advantage at all. It lets Matt and Yam Yam put their votes on that person to make it three, which means you either get one of them out and save the two you wanted to save most, force Lauren to use her extra vote (flush a known advantage), or force Jamie to use her idol (an unknown advantage!). The Tika people were telling us they were the middlemen in a Soka Vs Ratu fight. So yeah. And yeah Jamie's idol is fake, courtesy of Matthew.
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Apr 14, 2023 22:11
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Nihonniboku posted:Malcolm has some thoughts about the current discourse. It's multiple tweets, so click through. Yea don't see how this would result in absolutely lovely twists. What to they have to sell CBS and the producers on other than the $20 million price tag? That's a loving bargain for CBS, they'll keep running the show forever if they can fill a primetime slot that cheap! To put it in perspective the main 5 cast of Big Bang theory each got $1 million an episode for the last season, which ran for 24 episodes... 
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Apr 14, 2023 22:23
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STAC Goat posted:I do agree having Brandon or Jaime vote for Lauren probably would have been the best course of action since it theoretically plays on the possibility that Lauren's heard she was already being targeted and lets paranoia seep in. It's not even that complicated, it's literally "this is the only way to save both Yam and Matt" SLICK GOKU BABY posted:To put it in perspective the main 5 cast of Big Bang theory each got $1 million an episode for the last season, which ran for 24 episodes... That show also doesn't have to employ ~300 people halfway across the globe though, and you can syndicate the hell out of a sitcom with that many episodes
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Apr 14, 2023 22:36
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Reality tv is cheap and easy generally which is it’s entire appeal but Survivor definitely seems like it’s flirting with the high end of being too complicated and expensive to truly be worth it. I’d it hadn’t been on for two decades and 40+ seasons and have such a cultural fingerprint I imagine it would never get made today when you could just toss Gordon Ramsey in a kitchen for another show or spend a weekend filming fading celebrities in masks.
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Apr 14, 2023 22:45
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