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fatherboxx)
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Just because the response isn't instant nuclear war or even instant war or other escalatory reactions doesn't in any way mean there's no response. Deconfliction is effective because neither side wants a war, but it doesn't just erase stuff like it never happened. There's always a response. Countries just have a multitude of ways to respond that is not open warfare. Also you'd probably be surprised just how much can go unresponded to for the sake of deconfliction. Good example of this was when Iran fired 15 ballistic missiles at a US base in Iraq after the Suleiman killing. If the interest is to not have a war then it's not going to blow up into a war.
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Apr 14, 2023 01:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Just because the response isn't instant nuclear war or even instant war or other escalatory reactions doesn't in any way mean there's no response. Deconfliction is effective because neither side wants a war, but it doesn't just erase stuff like it never happened. There's always a response. Countries just have a multitude of ways to respond that is not open warfare.
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Apr 14, 2023 01:22
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Enough of this dumb derail.
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Apr 14, 2023 01:24
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I'm a senior level sysadmin and at my level you basically have total access to anything and everything at the organization you work for. It's just the nature of the job that you need access to everything. Information is all digital nowadays and you can't have someone build a system that they don't have access to themselves. IT guys usually have the keys to the kingdom. Most IT guys have the power to knock a company back to the stone age in a few minutes if they felt so inclined. Domain admin is a hell of a drug. cr0y fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 03:27
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It does seem unreasonable https://twitter.com/TheAtlantic/status/1646649491397681155
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Apr 14, 2023 03:27
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Why the gently caress did someone from a state national guard have a security clearance for information more sensitive than where the national parks are located? https://twitter.com/johnismay/status/1646647045229256704 quote:The wing commander’s biography says he is responsible for 1,260 military and civilian personnel, and their duties include responding to domestic emergencies in Massachusetts while training for wartime missions. "National Guard" units in the US are technically state militias but in reality are fully fledged military units that basically do everything the "real" Army/Air Force does, including intelligence and logistics support.
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Apr 14, 2023 03:31
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cr0y posted:I'm a senior level sysadmin and at my level you basically have total access to anything and everything at the organization you work for. It's just the nature of the job that you need access to everything. Edit: to elaborate: yes, it's probably impossible to make the chief sysadmin unable to access data, but it doesn't mean a random kid whose job is to make sure the router is plugged in right should be able to read the Dense Secretary's daily briefing. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 03:32
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Paladinus posted:There's a huge concerted propaganda effort to portray T-54/55 tanks as Leopard killers because the old type of barrel they have is better for penetrating armour from a long distance or something. Hundreds of accounts constantly posting about these legendary threaded barrels under every article and tg post about it. Even if they have the ammo and the guns and turrets haven't rust-welded everything locked (which, that last one is a real issue; I recall a battleship Russia got from the UK a long time ago that they gave back with turrets that had rust-welded themselves because they never turned the drat things), would they actually do anything to a modern tank? I know that modern tanks tend to use lots of various composites that do a very good job of stopping HEAT rounds, and I'd be surprised if a WWII or just post-WWII had an AP round capable of punching through a modern tank.
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Apr 14, 2023 03:35
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T-55 is also a strange choice because it doesn't have an autoloader, so you need four man crews. An increase of a few hundred personnel is a drop in the sea, but it is nevertheless a detour from prevailing doctrine and organisation of Russian tank forces. I'm half expecting that they follow the current regulations and don't provide any MRE's to the loaders because it says in the papers that a tank company has 10 T-72's á 3 men so 30 mouths to feed. The regulations are not wrong! 
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Apr 14, 2023 03:52
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Rear and side hits from a T55 can still penetrate on modern tanks so they can be dangerous under the right (mainly defensive or if they have a numbers advantage) circumstances. They get penetrated rather easily by anything with a 105mm+ gun though, just about any RPG can knock them out, and the sights as well as crew ergonomics suck pretty badly compared to a OG unupgraded T72 much less a Leopard or Leopard2. The unupgraded T55 is basically the last of the simple WWII-esque tanks and its interesting from a historical perspective (it was actually pretty good when it was introduced in the late 40's) but they don't really have a place on a 2022/2023 battlefield in a tank fighting role. From what has come up about most of the T55's the Ukrainians have they seem to be upgraded versions (of which there are many different ones) of varying quality. Some are only moderately better than a unupgraded version. Some of them have pretty substantial upgrades and are a decent 2nd or 3rd line tank. I don't think they try to use them in a tank battle role but instead as ersatz SPG or for scouting. The Russians supposedly were doing something similar but who knows what is really going on right now.
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Apr 14, 2023 03:57
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Charlz Guybon posted:It does seem unreasonable In my opinion it's the flip side of a habit of overclassifying. People mark stuff as classified almost by default in a lot of places, to avoid having to really think about what's in the document, which then means that no one in those places can do anything without a secret clearance, I think that forms a feedback loop in on itself until eventually some Cyber Transport Journeyman shows up and his job really shouldn't involve much access but they have to basically give him the run of the system for him to do it because everything has been marked classified constantly for the past decade, and then he does this.
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Apr 14, 2023 05:08
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People have been talking a lot in this thread about how various tanks like the T55 would do against opponent tanks. Well I stumbled across an interesting YouTube channel today called SY Simulations that uses computer generated simulations to depict how different tank shells would affect the armor of other vehicles. It's not the most exciting channel in the world, but still pretty interesting. Like here's how the armor of a T62 would stand up to the round from a Leopard 1, both of which are expected to see service in Ukraine: https://youtu.be/TtRy1IaQ69I
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Apr 14, 2023 05:53
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cr0y posted:I'm a senior level sysadmin and at my level you basically have total access to anything and everything at the organization you work for. It's just the nature of the job that you need access to everything. I don’t understand why this has to be a security issue that couldn’t be solved by encrypting individual files and not giving the IT admin the key.
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Apr 14, 2023 05:57
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cr0y posted:I'm a senior level sysadmin and at my level you basically have total access to anything and everything at the organization you work for. It's just the nature of the job that you need access to everything. That is wild, it's crazy that kind of access is being granted. What kind of junior level job needs access to everything?
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Apr 14, 2023 06:05
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Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:I don’t understand why this has to be a security issue that couldn’t be solved by encrypting individual files and not giving the IT admin the key. Who is managing the provisioning of the encryption keys? I'm not saying that it can't be done, and I agree that in this case someone is playing real fast and loose with granting privileges to computer toucher accounts. There are a million people who would have access to this stuff as part of their day job. Off the top of my head the following job types could argue the need for access to everything: -Database admin -Backup/recovery -Certain levels of application support and customer service (customers in this case being analysts whose specialty is intelligence but not necessarily IT) -Auditors -maybeeee app developers in some cases -document management support for whatever this poo poo is stored in -key management app support -app owners of whatever facilitates sharing this stuff throughout the federal government/military Etc etc cr0y fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 06:12
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cr0y posted:Who is managing the provisioning of the encryption keys? Well I know that in my experience access where I have worked for a ton of stuff has been purely on a absolutely must have it basis. When within the Admin levels you want everything so heavily compartmentalized as to avoid exposure when compromised and to avoid access to non-needed things. As for encryption I would think you would have career national security agents handling such things. Have it like nuclear codes where no one has the full key at one time so there is limited exposure if compromised. That being said there is absolutely zero reason why some kid in the Mass National Guard should have had access to a fraction of this stuff and even less of a reason why he should have been able to print it out and walk out with it.
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Apr 14, 2023 06:35
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cr0y posted:Who is managing the provisioning of the encryption keys? the sysadmins. the point isn't so much that they operate the systems that mint the keys, it's that the systems involved say "hey, if anyone but x, y, or z USE these keys, sound alarm". after initial setup and outside exceptional scenarios, sysadmins should not have free access to the systems they manage in high security environments you can and should design access control systems where the people tasked with managing it do not have free access to everything under it indefinitely this is demonstration that US control over secret information post-Snowden failed to realize that you need to ensure that people with keys to the kingdom cannot use them freely, and instead (from my own anecdotal experience) doubled down on existing security models, where you just try to be real sure nobody without keys to the kingdom can walk out with anything they _do_ have access to pre 9/11 siloing is brought up as a cause, but we apparently failed to distinguish permissive access controls between agencies from permissive systems in general. CIA and DOD analysts should be able to share information, but that doesn't require exposing the same information to the sysadmins who keep the network links between CIA and DOJ running
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Apr 14, 2023 06:53
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It would be really interesting if the subsequent investigation into the security practices at that base is ever made public to figure out exactly how he was able to do it. I guarantee that there are rules that were already supposed to prevent this being circumvented somehow by shoddy implementation.
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Apr 14, 2023 07:32
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:the sysadmins. The solution is something like a yubikey. The key is generated in hardware by the owner. The private part can never leave the hardware, sysadmin only can see the public key which is fine. You will then need to make a system that gives out file-specific keys to people, and handle bunch more details, but there is no reason a sysadmin should be able to grab everything. OTOH this complex schema will last about 5 minutes until people start giving out their hw keys to other people for convenience 
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Apr 14, 2023 07:49
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FWIW, as a sysadmin you typically have methods to execute arbitrary code on client machines, which you need to have as part of your job. None of your encryption weeaboo matters if everything can be taken post-decryption. If the org is big and has processes in place even admins can be siloed a bit. While I have full access to absolutely everything, I deliberately have no credentials to backups. Those are entirely separate teams. But, what you need for such a scheme is a) a bunch more people so you can separate their areas of access and b) you need some people with a good chunk of experience running the core, not 21 year old kids, and finally c) an organisation that cares about IT processes and whatnot. Most orgs fail at c)
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Apr 14, 2023 08:27
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I feel kinda bad for the guy. Still lives at home and junior enlisted in the national guard so he admins a discord for clout, does some idiotic leaking of all the poo poo he's dumped with, will probably spend the rest of his life in prison. And yea, frankly this shows that the Us military can leak like a sive if a half-compenent foreign nation wants to buy secrets, if people as junior as him have all this juicy poo poo.
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Apr 14, 2023 08:40
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Antigravitas posted:FWIW, as a sysadmin you typically have methods to execute arbitrary code on client machines, which you need to have as part of your job. None of your encryption weeaboo matters if everything can be taken post-decryption. If the org is big and has processes in place even admins can be siloed a bit. While I have full access to absolutely everything, I deliberately have no credentials to backups. Those are entirely separate teams. I fully agree that if the whole organization is run by idiots, there can be no security. My overall point is that from a technological standpoint, it does not follow that sysadmins will have to be able to read access everything or run arbitrary code. The reasons for why the information could leak is 99.9% organizational in the case discussed.
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Apr 14, 2023 09:15
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Antigravitas posted:c) an organisation that cares about IT processes and whatnot. I do not believe any organization on this planet cares about IT processes. Why yes, that DOES mean failure is inevitable.
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Apr 14, 2023 09:38
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Bizarre. A T-90 tank was abandoned at a truck stop in Louisiana. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russian-t-90-tank-from-ukraine-mysteriously-appears-at-u-s-truck-stop
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Apr 14, 2023 09:43
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Charlz Guybon posted:Bizarre. A T-90 tank was abandoned at a truck stop in Louisiana. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russian-t-90-tank-from-ukraine-mysteriously-appears-at-u-s-truck-stop
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Apr 14, 2023 10:00
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Nytimes have now posted a podcast on the hunt for blue shitposter https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/14/podcasts/hard-fork-discord-leaker.html e: the actual Bellingcat investigation and methodology starts about 12min in and goes for about 15min. Paracausal fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 11:01
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What do we think is going to happen to this leaker? Is this kid going to spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth?
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Apr 14, 2023 12:31
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This kind of situation makes it hilarious that some people think the US govt is hiding UFOs and poo poo. It also makes it clear how "spies" have jobs that are much less exciting than most people think. I wonder is security is just as lovely in most countries Crosby B. Alfred posted:What do we think is going to happen to this leaker? Is this kid going to spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth? I doubt he'll ever get out. They kind of have to make an example out of him and also need a scape goat
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Apr 14, 2023 12:40
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Lmao if you think human nature is any different just because they live somewhere else.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:02
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What do we think is going to happen to this leaker? Is this kid going to spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth? The cynic in me thinks he'll probably get publicly crucified over being a loving imbecile + convenient scapegoat for higher-ups to cover their systematic failures, followed by some MAGA politicians trying to create traction to pardon him and whataboutism vis-a-vis Snowden en Manning. Never let a good culture war go to waste. I'm not American so the fallout only tangentially impacts me, but I'm 100% mentally primed for the above to hit the news cycle.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:20
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
My understanding was it was a radio operator with a security clearance. Like the sys-admin in an IT system today. My point was that low ranked fellows needs to do drudge work and secret messages still needed to be sent and received by radio in his day as well as signals intercept, misdirection, protocols to protect the network, etc. Despite having a security clearance that got him checked up after leaving the service, he never got beyond junior enlisted rank in his career.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:20
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KingColliwog posted:I doubt he'll ever get out. They kind of have to make an example out of him and also need a scape goat I kind of figure as much. Even if he fell down the alt-right tubes I am still a bit sympathetic to a twenty year old kid ruining the rest of his entire life and I don't see him getting his sentence commuted.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:24
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https://meduza.io/cards/kratkoe-soderzhanie-voennoy-reformy-povestki-elektronnye-granitsy-zakrytye-kogo-eto-kosnetsya-spoyler-vseh Forgot to post about this in all the leaks stuff – the Russian parliament has rubber-stamped (even by its own standard, this was unanimously and in 2 readings at once) a law on sending draft notices digitally. Kartapolov, an MP outspoken on the matters of mobilization, is now saying that this is necessary for effective “mobilization rollout”, which is a bit ambiguous wrt any new big mobilization wave. If so, then this would be a “surprising” contradiction to everything that he has said previously. Electric Wrigglies posted:My understanding was it was a radio operator with a security clearance. Like the sys-admin in an IT system today. My point was that low ranked fellows needs to do drudge work and secret messages still needed to be sent and received by radio in his day as well as signals intercept, misdirection, protocols to protect the network, etc. Despite having a security clearance that got him checked up after leaving the service, he never got beyond junior enlisted rank in his career. Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. I wondered if this, perhaps, is some fancy pants secret army radio thing.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:27
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Whatever happens with this guy its clear the system of how classified info is shared, stored and accessed is not working.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:34
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What do we think is going to happen to this leaker? Is this kid going to spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth? They will probably put him into SuperMax honestly with the rest of the convicted spies. Dude is going to die in prison. It is sad because he threw his entire life away for absolutely nothing. Now he is going to spend at least his next 40 years rotting in a box, which personally I'd rather get the death penalty but that is another discussion entirely. KingColliwog posted:This kind of situation makes it hilarious that some people think the US govt is hiding UFOs and poo poo. Well the US Govt is good at hiding stuff when it needs to, they compartmentalize well and are excellent at pushing cover stories. I will say working with sensitive things as a non-enlisted that the security on that end in my experience is night and day different than what it sounds like with things with this guy, especially as a civilian contractor. I imagine that is also different depending on the project and whatnot as well. And as for other countries, generally the US is among the "best" in terms of how it's military operates. They have the manpower and money to make sure most things are done as intended. The further down the size and money you go, you see how the corners are cut. It is also dependent upon the country as well. Some, Israel for example, take their security incredibly seriously and invest more into that than other countries for obvious reasons. Lots of former Soviet countries security was based on fear of speaking out, which in some forms still lasts today. Fear can be outweighed by other things which is how so much of it was compromised over the years. Western countries try to do the whole duty and vetting thing generally which as we just saw doesn't always work either. In the end human nature at the end is stupid and selfish. You can't get away from it.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:39
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Burns posted:Whatever happens with this guy its clear the system of how classified info is shared, stored and accessed is not working. I dunno, it seems like it is working because he got caught, is going to be hosed, and the people that he answered to are going to be interrogated, and recommendations will be made and put into place to prevent this from happening again.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:51
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I feel like we're entering a bit of a loop with the discussion of the leaks, so let's start winding it down until additional details, or something else relevant, surface.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:53
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Deltasquid posted:The cynic in me thinks he'll probably get publicly crucified over being a loving imbecile + convenient scapegoat for higher-ups to cover their systematic failures, followed by some MAGA politicians trying to create traction to pardon him and whataboutism vis-a-vis Snowden en Manning. Never let a good culture war go to waste. This will be....interesting....to see play out. Can they whip up enough white nationalist support from the bigoted Discord channel contents to light a fire of support in the base's heart, and will it be enough to overcome the intel community wanting to crucify him?
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Apr 14, 2023 14:56
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What do we think is going to happen to this leaker? Is this kid going to spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth? I'm probably too optimistic, but I think he goes to prison for a decade or so and then either gets paroled or a President commutes his sentence/pardons him. If it is the pardon route, I don't think it'll be a MAGA chud doing it (although certainly not impossible) but rather a (likely Democratic) President saying, 'You hosed up real real bad, but you were basically a dumb kid and no justice is served by you spending your entire life in prison'. This is assuming that the current story of sharing classified information for internet cred holds up. If it turns out that he was ideologically driven to help Russia, or they start finding suspicious payments in his bank accounts, then yeah, he's locked up forever. E: Whoops, saw cinci's comment, ending the discussion.
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Apr 14, 2023 14:59
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Rear and side hits from a T55 can still penetrate on modern tanks so they can be dangerous under the right (mainly defensive or if they have a numbers advantage) circumstances. In the context of the Ukraine war that’s not a very productive discussion. I mean it’s interesting but I don’t really think there have been too many tank-on-tank battles. I think tanks in Ukraine have been used to suppress or destroy infantry positions and have been destroyed by a combination of land mines, artillery and ATGMs. I expect even leopards are going to be firing HE shells and machine guns at entrenched positions rather than shooting other tanks.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:14
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