(Thread IKs:
skooma512)
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HallelujahLee posted:just think what would happen if good ole buchanon joe ignored a scrotus ruling civil war drake no people's war drake yes
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Apr 14, 2023 15:38
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, and parts of the south, specifically Appalachia was pretty mixed as far as the Confederacy went as much of its economy was made up of small holders that didn't have much to gain from a plantation-state. There was considerable resistance against conscription as well. From what I understand, Meade and McClellan were doing a great job of getting lots of Union soldiers killed even though they were more cautious and their caution basically stretched the war out longer. I always found criticizing Grant for high casualties kind of weird since we were talking about very emotionally charged war with no feasible middle ground compromise. Those kinds of wars kill lots of people, unfortunately.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:39
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Ardennes posted:As far as Grant goes, in poverty, taking wood to sell as firewood in the market to feed his kids poverty, Grant frees the slave he was gifted by his in-laws. financially at the time that’s like giving away a house. if we ask: What are Americans capable of being? Grant is interesting as an answer.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:47
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yeah i think i read somewhere that that average slave cost around $50,000 at todays prices, so whole extended families would easily be worth a fortune
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Apr 14, 2023 15:50
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Capital realized that slavery is a backwards system, so now instead of paying top dollar to own labor they pay fuckall for easily replaceable labor and charge them way more than that just to live.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:54
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euphronius posted:here is my idea: tbf the remote work thing is as much about worker flexibility and independence as literally working from home A rigid work day with strict clock-in and clock-out times is miserable and tons of jobs, including ones that can't be done remotely, could offer way more flexibility. The ultimate societal goal should be to minimize the time and number of people commuting, minimize working hours, and maximize worker flexibility and independence, but lol lmao etc.
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Apr 14, 2023 15:58
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Free time and independence leads to subversive thought and must not be allowed
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Apr 14, 2023 16:01
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Eric Cantonese posted:From what I understand, Meade and McClellan were doing a great job of getting lots of Union soldiers killed even though they were more cautious and their caution basically stretched the war out longer. I always found criticizing Grant for high casualties kind of weird since we were talking about very emotionally charged war with no feasible middle ground compromise. Those kinds of wars kill lots of people, unfortunately. It was also about the total results of his campaigns as well, Shiloh was hard fought but clearly a critical victory that would lead to the battle of Corinth and Union domination of much of the upper south (as well as eventually leading to Vicksburg). At Vicksburg, the entire Confederate Army of Mississippi was wiped out. The Chattanooga campaign opened up Georgia. The Overland campaign is probably the campaign Grant is more criticized for, but in all honesty, it while very blood, also hemmed the Confederates into Central Virginia as the rest of the Confederacy was collapsing. It didn't end the war but effectively neutralized Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia forcing them into defensive positions in a war of attrition that the North could win. It was about results. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:21 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 16:01
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Paradoxish posted:tbf the remote work thing is as much about worker flexibility and independence as literally working from home That's now how it was done in 1974 when our current government came to power, therefore we can never, ever change it.
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Apr 14, 2023 16:02
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Paradoxish posted:tbf the remote work thing is as much about worker flexibility and independence as literally working from home it's incredibly important that if my employees at my fart in a jar shop in this new jersey strip mall are even one minute late i be able to penalize them
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Apr 14, 2023 16:04
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super sweet best pal posted:Capital realized that slavery is a backwards system, so now instead of paying top dollar to own labor they pay fuckall for easily replaceable labor and charge them way more than that just to live. That only makes sense if you have alot of goods and money to siphon off. Stops working when the labor doesn't have much more than a slave, and in both cases it then devolves to the actual ability of the person who get's their labor to actually do something to get a return. Since they don't know how to do that anymore they will eat poo poo. They can make use eat most of it but they're getting some turds too. The rich want nothing to do with labor but are inextricably linked to it and can no more permanently conquer it without permanent effort than you can wish for the tides to stop. It isn't about people getting together and going comb ayah, or starting a bloody revolution per se, it's about the various systems that enable modern capitalism requiring active effort to maintain, effort that is not being spared by the rich, and not being spared by the desperate either because they are too busy delivering profits to the wealthy. I dunno why but I like to continue saying that my thoughts all lead to the idea that regardless of what comes after, it won't be as advantageous for Capital as what came before was, because it isn't going to be a bunch of
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Apr 14, 2023 16:07
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number aint up to much today i see, talking about grant and other losers
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Apr 14, 2023 16:15
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lol credit suisse telling anyone they have financial issues. “We downgraded ur credit rating that’s bad bro” lol you had to be bailed out 3 weeks ago shut the gently caress up about my finances skooma512 has issued a correction as of 16:27 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 16:25
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Guy I'm currently stabbing to death "if you keep this up you're going to have a heart attack!"
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Apr 14, 2023 16:30
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thechosenone posted:That only makes sense if you have alot of goods and money to siphon off. Stops working when the labor doesn't have much more than a slave, and in both cases it then devolves to the actual ability of the person who get's their labor to actually do something to get a return. Since they don't know how to do that anymore they will eat poo poo. They can make use eat most of it but they're getting some turds too. The rich want nothing to do with labor but are inextricably linked to it and can no more permanently conquer it without permanent effort than you can wish for the tides to stop. It isn't about people getting together and going comb ayah, or starting a bloody revolution per se, it's about the various systems that enable modern capitalism requiring active effort to maintain, effort that is not being spared by the rich, and not being spared by the desperate either because they are too busy delivering profits to the wealthy. that is, until we reach space capitalism
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Apr 14, 2023 16:35
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Frosted Flake posted:I don't know if Americans are taught how insane American slavery was even by the standards of slavery. Matt Karp has written about it and had a good Chapo episode, but when you followed their ideology to its natural conclusions, which of course happened after succession because they were no longer "constrained", it created levels of dysfunction that annihilated Southern society. Not just for black people, obviously, but for whites as well, the "federal" government in Richmond, the state governments. There were no functioning institutions in the South by Appomattox, and much of what Lost Cause romantics blamed on the Yankees was already happening when Union armies arrived. lol Karp went on chapo?
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Apr 14, 2023 16:52
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Penisaurus Sex posted:It's really weird to dig into the reality of the CSA. I had a post about this all typed out but because I phone post I got a call and now it's gone. Quick quick summary, I'm making up for the lost work by amusing myself so bear with me: These here problems were all the far-reaching impact of chattel slavery, an ideology that bred a multitude of contradictions, ultimately leadin' to the collapse of the very society it aimed to uphold. With its roots in the hearts of the planter class, the consequences of this belief spread through the social, political, and economic fabric of the Confederacy like vines on an old oak tree. The presence of slave labor in Southern cities ignited the class consciousness of workin' class whites, fuelin' a fire that threatened to engulf the entire society in unrest, and pushin' many to embrace abolitionism, even if it was out of their own self-interest. A'fearing that abolitionism, the planters seceded from the Union, not realizing the fire started from within, not without. Yankees may be devils, but they ain't arsonists. Now, I reckon y'all remember back in the 1850s, when them big ol' plantation owners started bringin' their slaves into them Southern cities, workin' for no pay. This stirred up a hornet's nest among the workin' class whites, givin' 'em a sense of unity and makin' 'em aware of their place in this here social order. It was like throwin' a lit match into a barrel of gunpowder, causin' all kinds of commotion and unrest, inchin' closer and closer to a full-blown revolution. Them white workers, out of their own self-interest, started directin' their frustration at abolishin' slavery, yessiree. See, the problem was, with them slaves bein' considered nothin' more than property, the introduction of these here "property" into the cities put the livelihood of white laborers and craftsmen in mighty big jeopardy. Their wage labor just couldn't compete with unpaid slave labor. It was like tryin' to win a race with a donkey 'gainst a thoroughbred. This here fightin' spirit and pushback 'gainst them fancy plantation folk was like a fire burnin' bright in the heart of the Confederate world, a fire that just wouldn't die out. Now, secession, that was an attempt by the planter class to diffuse this fiery energy, tryin' to keep things from boilin' over. But the very foundation of chattel slavery and the idear of a Slaveholder's Republic made its downfall 'bout as sure as the sun risin' in the mornin'. As the Confederate States stumbled and fumbled, y'all can see the rickety ol' structure shakin' and quakin' under the weight of its own failings. Them crises and failures we've seen paint a picture clear as day of the instability, incoherence, and dysfunction. Y'see, the very idea of treatin' laborers as property created a slew of problems for the Confederate system. When slaves were considered nothin' more than chattel, the Confederacy faced a fundamental contradiction that threatened to bring the whole house of cards tumblin' down. Now, consider the folks in the ironically named Liberty County, Georgia. They were strugglin' to keep their slaves from fleein' to the Union forces, and in their desperation, they wanted to punish those slaves under military law. They even called these runaways "traitors" and demanded they be subject to capital punishment. The problem was, these slaves were still considered property, not citizens, which made it mighty difficult to treat 'em as such under the law. This conundrum highlights the distance the war had taken Confederate thinkin' from its roots. Chief Justice Taney had once declared that slaves were "no part of the people" and were excluded from the duties and obligations of citizenship. But by 1862, the actions of slaves within the Confederacy forced some to reckon with the idea that these folks just might indeed be part of the body politic, on account of leading them Yankee gunboats down southern rivers. The planter class, intoxicated by their own self-interest, remained stubborn as a mule, draggin' the rest of the Confederacy along with them. As the war raged on, the Confederacy's economy, built upon the fragile foundation of chattel slavery, crumbled beneath the weight of the Union blockade and the erosion of its enslaved labor force. See, Slaves ain't gon' to fight for ya, they don' want'a work for ya, but given the chance, they sure as Hell will fight wit'cha. The planters "property" became political actors when they crossed Yankee lines. In some counties, their whole labour force don' run off like Br'er Rabbit when they saw thar first Yankee. Worse than runnin' away, 200 000 of them came back down south as blue devils. Well now, the flaw in that thar system lies in the very premise of buildin' an independent slaveholders' republic in the first place. Y'see, by aimin' to create a nation-state explicitly grounded in proslavery and antidemocratic ideals, the architects of the Confederacy were sowin' seeds of division and strife from the very beginnin'. They sought to solve the problems of labor, capital, and democracy by relyin' on an inherently exploitative and dehumanizin' institution: chattel slavery. This approach not only set the stage for internal conflicts and class divisions within the Confederacy but also made the CSA morally repugnant to other nations, hamperin' their chances of garnerin' international support. Moreover, by structurin' their economy and political system around the institution of slavery, the Confederacy's leaders created an inherently unstable and unsustainable model that was destined to collapse under its own weight.
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Apr 14, 2023 16:56
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Stealing from BSS. Web 3.0 hitting close to my heart.Endless Mike posted:The creators of Comixology are starting a new digital comics publisher with some, uh, interesting ideas. site posted:it's """"""not"""""" an nft lol
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Apr 14, 2023 16:56
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Eric Cantonese posted:From what I understand, Meade and McClellan were doing a great job of getting lots of Union soldiers killed even though they were more cautious and their caution basically stretched the war out longer. I always found criticizing Grant for high casualties kind of weird since we were talking about very emotionally charged war with no feasible middle ground compromise. Those kinds of wars kill lots of people, unfortunately. Meade was aggressive where it counted, which was taking credit for his subordinate's successes
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Apr 14, 2023 17:03
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The war should've gone on longer and weakened America as a political power.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:10
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super sweet best pal posted:The war should've gone on longer and weakened America as a political power. France and the American Civil War: A Diplomatic History gets into it. France's involvement in the American Civil War was critical to its unfolding, but the details of the European power's role remain little understood. Here, Steve Sainlaude offers the first comprehensive history of French diplomatic engagement with the Union and the Confederate States of America during the conflict. Drawing on archival sources that have been neglected by scholars up to this point, Sainlaude overturns many commonly held assumptions about French relations with the Union and the Confederacy. As Sainlaude demonstrates, no major European power had a deeper stake in the outcome of the conflict than France. Reaching beyond the standard narratives of this history, Sainlaude delves deeply into questions of geopolitical strategy and diplomacy during this critical period in world affairs. The resulting study will help shift the way Americans look at the Civil War and extend their understanding of the conflict in global context. e: South to Freedom: Runaway Slaves to Mexico and the Road to the Civil War is also interesting. Southerners never forgave Mexico. The Underground Railroad to the North promised salvation to many American slaves before the Civil War. But thousands of people in the south-central United States escaped slavery not by heading north but by crossing the southern border into Mexico, where slavery was abolished in 1837. In South to Freedom, historian Alice L. Baumgartner tells the story of why Mexico abolished slavery and how its increasingly radical antislavery policies fueled the sectional crisis in the United States. Southerners hoped that annexing Texas and invading Mexico in the 1840s would stop runaways and secure slavery's future. Instead, the seizure of Alta California and Nuevo México upset the delicate political balance between free and slave states. This is a revelatory and essential new perspective on antebellum America and the causes of the Civil War.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:13
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FF have you read McClellan's Other Story? you would enjoy it.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:14
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Frosted Flake posted:France and the American Civil War: A Diplomatic History gets into it. This owns, thanks for the recommendations
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Apr 14, 2023 17:15
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lol, our banking system is such trash. My new job wants an IBAN for direct payments but I live in ‘murica (for now) where things like “international standards” are a laughing point. They may have to physically mail me a check. 
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Apr 14, 2023 17:16
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https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1646907554096619521 get back to work spoiled pissants
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Apr 14, 2023 17:39
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RadiRoot posted:https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1646907554096619521 I hope we see real guillotines in the street... As a metaphor.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:40
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thank you france for not being a banana republic
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Apr 14, 2023 17:41
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HallelujahLee posted:thank you france for not being a banana republic lol
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Apr 14, 2023 17:43
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FlapYoJacks posted:lol, our banking system is such trash. My new job wants an IBAN for direct payments but I live in ‘murica (for now) where things like “international standards” are a laughing point. They may have to physically mail me a check. searching for a bank that can process incoming remittances, in america. but yeah i deal with international payments sometimes and it's hilarious how godawful it is. Send a payment to this account number with the exact memo: "pay to the party in the office in the third door from the left from the elevator on the second floor. Ask for Joe" I'm only halfway kidding, one was just the current megabank's general deposit account and the memo field was a a series of their acquisitions of acquisitions of acquisitions of acquisitions of acquisitions of acquisitions followed by an account manager's name then the name of the guy it went to. it took a week to get to him because the memo field got truncated, lmao. no idea why he didn't just request we fedex a check.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:45
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RadiRoot posted:https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1646907554096619521 Votez plus dur
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Apr 14, 2023 17:47
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RadiRoot posted:https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1646907554096619521 direct action (bypassing a vote and just declaring this is law now) gets the goods!
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Apr 14, 2023 17:47
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But Keynes predicted we would be only working 15 hours a week.
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Apr 14, 2023 17:51
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Keynes was a dumb antisemitic moron
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Apr 14, 2023 17:51
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Just to give you an idea of how weird it is that people never think about Mexico: Everybody talks about the Underground Railroad to Canada, which famously involved travelling thousands of kilometres cross country while being pursued. After the Fugitive Slave Act, this was even more difficult as the smaller free black population in northern states made blending in difficult or impossible. If you look at the 1860 map of most enslaved counties,  Let's focus on Wilkinson County, Mississippi,   It's 1200 miles to the main destination of northbound slaves, Saint Catherines,  and 800 to Mexico,  It's important to remember that within the South, particularly the Deep South, slaveowners were extremely complacent. They would expect runaways to run off to the woods and bayous and then eventually resign themselves to coming back when they ran out of food. It was really common, and the response was pretty indifferent. Ferocious punishment when they came back or were caught, but just the idea that slaves were not really expected to go anywhere. That's very different from the hot pursuit we're used to hearing in narratives from the border and upper south states. Slaves were sent to do their masters' errands all the time, and didn't have to show any documentation. Because again, the idea was, "where are they going to go?". They couldn't pass themselves off as freedmen indefinitely and without money of their own would eventually return. This is in part, besides propagating revolutionary sentiment among the white working class, there was a turn away from using slaves in cities towards the end of the 1850's. Slaves in cities could not be surveilled, you couldn't have some cracker on horseback with a shotgun watching someone make glassware. They A) were able to pocket money, B) had a better relationship with people they did business with than their absentee masters and so were able to negotiate payment for themselves, and that C) allowed them to live as freedmen, either purchasing manumission (before the number of people doing this caused the planters to freak out and make it illegal) or living as de facto freedmen until they could disappear north, where unlike plantation runaways, their skills made them, if not appreciated than useful, to the Yankees and they could get established. Part of this, complacency, coupled with the greed of the planter class, meant that most small vessels were crewed entirely by, and large vessels partly or mostly by, slaves and black freedmen. This is because the planters did not consider any of the implications of chattel slavery, and maritime labour of all types was expensive. The most they did as a precaution was not train slaves to be river pilots, under the belief that their intellectual inferiority would make them unable to navigate waterways, even though they were responsible for every other task on the vessel. This would also come to bite them in the rear end by providing the Union with a massive riverine logistical apparatus and pilots and navigators for gunboats. So, you have constant traffic in the Gulf between those southern ports and Mexico. Now, earlier, I showed that it's still 800 miles cross country to Mexico from Wilkinson County, and that's true, but that wasn't a long trip by boat and there was constant traffic down the rivers and across the Gulf. Since masters would employ slaves acting as stevedores and bosuns, it was trivially easy for them to either jump ship, or stowaway (or like urban labourers, because they had skills, be hired out) on other ships. There were pretty frequent southern witch hunts for perfidious German abolitionist sea captains who must have been behind this, but the reality of it is that planters were stupid and greedy, and this was another result of the ideology of chattel slavery. As they saw it, you wouldn't expect a forklift to jump ship when making a call at a foreign port would you? That's valuable property and part of your commercial operation, the profit it generates requires you to use it. So, yeah, going to Mexico was extremely popular, it caused the South to repeatedly freak out, invade Mexico, threaten to invade Mexico, support France in invading Mexico lol you get it. For whatever reason, that's basically not part of popular memory. Now part of this might be that because all of the escapes to Mexico took place within the deep south, there wasn't an underground railroad or anything that organized. Southern abolitionists were the subjects of ferocious riots, lynchings, witch hunts, whatever. Instead, these escapes were largely self organized by individuals or small groups, with help from people working alongside them on the docks or ships, which as I said was the consequence of trying to use slaves for these tasks. But on the whole 
Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 17:59 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 17:52
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quote:There were pretty frequent southern witch hunts for perfidious German abolitionist sea captains Fun fact, there were a bunch of German emigrants in Texas who were abolitionists & not incredibly interested in getting drafted to fight for the CSA so the Texans murdered them all! OK, maybe this wasn't such a fun fact.
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Apr 14, 2023 18:13
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Frosted Flake posted:But on the whole
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Apr 14, 2023 18:24
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It's gonna be really funny when macron gets jupiter-pilled and uses the court's decision as the basis to govern by decree and suspend elections
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Apr 14, 2023 18:37
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Frosted Flake posted:It's important to remember that within the South, particularly the Deep South, slaveowners were extremely complacent. They would expect runaways to run off to the woods and bayous and then eventually resign themselves to coming back when they ran out of food. It was really common, and the response was pretty indifferent. Ferocious punishment when they came back or were caught, but just the idea that slaves were not really expected to go anywhere. That's very different from the hot pursuit we're used to hearing in narratives from the border and upper south states. 
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Apr 14, 2023 18:42
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zetamind2000 posted:It's gonna be really funny when macron gets jupiter-pilled and uses the court's decision as the basis to govern by decree and suspend elections It's cool that this guy was their alternative to an open nazi
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Apr 14, 2023 18:43
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zetamind2000 posted:It's gonna be really funny when macron gets jupiter-pilled and uses the court's decision as the basis to govern by decree and suspend elections he unilaterally changed the voting rules in 2017. this is impossible to find now but one of the France threads in cspam talked about it.
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Apr 14, 2023 19:06
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