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lih posted:the last of us is an extremely cpu-intensive game on pc due to being a pretty poor port, so it's going to benefit the most from having a top-end cpu like the 7800x3d.
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Apr 15, 2023 14:45
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Shumagorath posted:How much of TLoU's terrible performance can be blamed on it being originally written to use every last trick available to Cell? The PS4 is x86 and ran it fine nearly ten years ago, so you'd think PCs could run it with sheer brute force by now. I’m pretty sure it’s a from the ground up remake.
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Apr 15, 2023 14:46
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Shumagorath posted:How much of TLoU's terrible performance can be blamed on it being originally written to use every last trick available to Cell? The PS4 is x86 and ran it fine nearly ten years ago, so you'd think PCs could run it with sheer brute force by now. I feel like this post was probably bait, but it's a full remake on a different engine. TLoU 2022 is a game that specifically targeted the PS5s new features instead of being a cross generation game, and then the PC port seems to have been phoned in and they try to make up for the lack of those features by just keeping tons of data in RAM and VRAM.
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Apr 15, 2023 14:49
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naughty dog were gonna have to make an engine that works for ps5/pc for the future at some point, and tlou1 ended up being the test case for it. the multiplayer game probably uses the same engine, and given how big of a bet it is, it's probably good that this game released first to sort out the kings and then there's tlou2 when that comes out for pc if anything, they're hamstrung by the reliance on the ps5's ability to stream data, and i guess directstorage wasn't ready to come to the rescue
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Apr 15, 2023 14:51
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Twerk from Home posted:I feel like this post was probably bait, but it's a full remake on a different engine. kliras posted:if anything, they're hamstrung by the reliance on the ps5's ability to stream data, and i guess directstorage wasn't ready to come to the rescue Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 14:53
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hopefully one day we'll get the bts on what the hell actually went wrong with the port (aside from all the crunch)
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Apr 15, 2023 14:57
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kliras posted:hopefully one day we'll get the bts on what the hell actually went wrong with the port (aside from all the crunch) It's not a good period for PC games (that are cross platforms) and most games get released too early with bugs but the timeline of The Last of Us release can't be a coincidence with it coming at about the same time as the TV show which is based on that first game in the series. If it gets the Horizon : Zero Dawn treatment and gets fixed properly on PC, it will end up being pretty good on PC but it doesn't excuse paying 93$Cnd (79.99$ + taxes where I live) for a broken mess at launch when it's backed by mega studios and mega corporations. I'm surprised it didn't get the 89.99$Cnd pricing (that's our next gen pricing on your 69.99$us) which totals at 104$Cnd here. Also on a related notes on prices, I'm looking from time to time for 4090 on Newegg and Amazon and there's never anything in stock besides the ultra overpriced special editions or water cooled, etc... And Zotac and sometimes maybe MSI. The 4090 seems to start at 2200$Cnd here but I pretty much never see anything under 2800$Cnd. I looked at the 4070 just to be curious and it ends up being like 900$Cnd (so add almost 150$ for taxes here). Maybe it's a good thing it's still vaporware for me with no access to any kind of physical stores. Are you guys all in the US when you're saying 4090 are everywhere?
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Apr 15, 2023 15:12
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Hemish posted:It's not a good period for PC games (that are cross platforms) and most games get released too early with bugs but the timeline of The Last of Us release can't be a coincidence with it coming at about the same time as the TV show which is based on that first game in the series. If it gets the Horizon : Zero Dawn treatment and gets fixed properly on PC, it will end up being pretty good on PC but it doesn't excuse paying 93$Cnd (79.99$ + taxes where I live) for a broken mess at launch when it's backed by mega studios and mega corporations. I'm surprised it didn't get the 89.99$Cnd pricing (that's our next gen pricing on your 69.99$us) which totals at 104$Cnd here. i suspect it would still be a bad port even if it wasnt rushed out the door for the tv show. the shader compilation nonsense just screams "we hyperoptimized for our platform of choice and let the contractors worry about the ports" not a lot of game devs work with cross-platform in mind from the start
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Apr 15, 2023 15:21
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Taima posted:does the DDR5 help? Does it help FPS or make the system more snappy, or both? How much is AM5 doing, how much is the DDR5 doing and how much is the cpu doing? Does the PCIE 5.0 help on the 4090? Does the gen 5 SSD support help? Probably not, right- I use a SK hynix Platinum P41 2TB which is only a gen 4 drive. Its mostly going to come down to the extra cache. Zen 4 does have a pretty decent IPC uplift over Zen 3 too though. ~13% improvement so that'll help as well. And yeah it feels like a big upgrade for lots of things. I do BOINC/distributed computing sometimes and man those numbers are going up by quite a bit in some cases. Every game feels incredibly smooth and fast vs my 5900X. The power and heat use is noticeably lower too. I don't think I've gone over 90w even while number crunching. It was expensive to upgrade to due to the mobo but I plan to keep it through Zen 5. I think AMD has said so far they'll support AM5 until 2025 or so. That might change but it sounds like it'll good for 1-2 upgrades if I so choose. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 15:37
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horizon had the benefit of guerilla taking over the port from ni-whatstheirface, whereas i think the tlou port was basically already in naughty dog's lap, regardless of how much people want to pin everything on iron galaxy
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Apr 15, 2023 15:38
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iron galaxy ported the same engine to PC for the uncharted collection and did a much better job of it than naughty dogs attempt with TLOU, which was ironically blamed on iron galaxy
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Apr 15, 2023 15:45
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Well, Iron Galaxy's name and logo appear on some marketing materials for TLOU. I think Naughty Dog may have used a lot of IG's work when porting TLOU because some same mistakes are present in both, including the same bad machine translation for the german localization of the shader compilation process (it translates "building" into the german word for the noun "building")
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Apr 15, 2023 16:20
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apparently the raytracing options have been removed from RE2make and RE3make (??) they're still shipping the DX12 versions but RT is gone as of the latest patches
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Apr 15, 2023 16:24
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they were a part of an update that had some weird performance regressions much past launch, perhaps in attempt to migrate the whole franchise to dx12. sounds like that's what's getting rolled back, perhaps to bring it in line with something re4 is doing. no one really enables raytracing in re games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEJICLXaHEs https://twitter.com/Dachsjaeger/status/1540697768963936259 basically a "next-gen" update that ... didn't run well on next-gen kliras fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Apr 15, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 16:32
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steckles posted:Regarding path tracing, I don't know that we're going to see a true path tracing focused GPU until we start getting hundreds of megabytes of L2 and like a gigabyte of L3 cache standard. Even if you could make ray queries free, it wouldn't gain a gigantic amount of performance on current architectures because of memory thrashing. Paul MaudDib posted:But cache isn't going to shrink much between 6nm and 3nm, but logic is. And so all that SM complexity is going to get a lot cheaper, while cache isn't going to get much better in the meantime. Paul MaudDib posted:I wonder if spilling favors L1/L2 or L3 - NVIDIA chose the former and AMD chose the latter. I’m guessing nvidia probably needed some extra for Shader Execution Reordering to work, perhaps a reason they went with that over an L3. One thing that might help with cache not shrinking anymore is that any 3D cache chiplets can be made on older nodes like N5. Presumably the cost will drop as newer nodes take over on the logic side of things.
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Apr 15, 2023 16:38
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Hemish posted:Also on a related notes on prices, I'm looking from time to time for 4090 on Newegg and Amazon and there's never anything in stock besides the ultra overpriced special editions or water cooled, etc... And Zotac and sometimes maybe MSI. The 4090 seems to start at 2200$Cnd here but I pretty much never see anything under 2800$Cnd. I looked at the 4070 just to be curious and it ends up being like 900$Cnd (so add almost 150$ for taxes here). Maybe it's a good thing it's still vaporware for me with no access to any kind of physical stores. On Canadacomputers.com I see 4090s available for $2200 and 4070s for $800. The 4090s however are only available in certain stores, but the 4070s are in stock and shipping 
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Apr 15, 2023 17:10
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kliras posted:horizon had the benefit of guerilla taking over the port from ni-whatstheirface, whereas i think the tlou port was basically already in naughty dog's lap, regardless of how much people want to pin everything on iron galaxy
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Apr 15, 2023 18:12
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it's the other way around, the HZD port was originally done by virtuos then it was handed over to nixxes to salvage it with updates
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Apr 15, 2023 18:14
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It's always nice when some clickbait thumbnail shows up on my feed to remind me how much hardware enthusiast journalism sucks. 
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Apr 15, 2023 18:50
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it's like the zoomer equivalent of wordart at this point
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Apr 15, 2023 19:07
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Kramjacks posted:It's always nice when some clickbait thumbnail shows up on my feed to remind me how much hardware enthusiast journalism sucks. AMD SAID WHAT?!
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Apr 15, 2023 19:10
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Kramjacks posted:It's always nice when some clickbait thumbnail shows up on my feed to remind me how much hardware enthusiast journalism sucks. Graphics driver sucked me off?
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Apr 15, 2023 19:12
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at least they feel enough shame to not show their face
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Apr 15, 2023 19:13
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kliras posted:at least they feel enough shame to not show their face  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqvzHLjPBD4
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Apr 15, 2023 19:45
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THEY HAVE 300K SUBS?!
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Apr 15, 2023 20:07
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This guy has a lot of balls predicting that the RTX 5090 will have big performance. He's taking a big risk and could end up with egg on his face!
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Apr 15, 2023 20:16
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Paul MaudDib posted:it'd be interesting to see whether OFA could improve this at all. Being able to have some raw "draw poo poo here" metrics would be great. Although I guess at a certain level of detail the heatmaps don't have to be GPU accelerated at all. There's also been a ton of work on path guiding by basically storing an octree of directions where the signal is bright. It's super simple and probably wouldn't be hard to extend to big fat ray bundles, but it's also one of those highly async methods that would need a rethink of how presented frames and light transport work together. Realistically though, an algorithm that focuses on shooting as many dumb rays as possible rather than trying to be clever is probably gonna work better for games in the long run. Paul MaudDib posted:it seems like there's some fairly enlightening questions like "what is the number of BVH regions behind this raster region/space voxel/OFA motion estimation group" or "what is the average depth of rays shot in this region" that could guide LOD tuning too. Yes you can compute it but being like "yo there's a chunky thing at X but there's nothing ahead/behind" or even just "the time spent in this region is out of control" are relevant info for building an optimal tree. Paul MaudDib posted:The nanite guy has got the right idea though this isn't a "rebuild every frame" or even every N frames, you should rebalance it based on where poo poo's happening and where rays need a better performance level of both detail and sampling.
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Apr 15, 2023 20:17
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steckles posted:Characters and moving stuff obviously still needs to be dynamically computed, but there's no reason why a developer shouldn't be able to spend 48 hours generating the optimal tree for static level geometry and ship that. Like I said earlier, the fact that that's missing from the current APIs is a huge misstep. the console APIs do allow developers to cook BVHes ahead of time, i wonder if they're already taking advantage of the fact that they can spend much more time on BVH refinement than is practical on PC
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Apr 15, 2023 20:46
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repiv posted:the console APIs do allow developers to cook BVHes ahead of time, i wonder if they're already taking advantage of the fact that they can spend much more time on BVH refinement than is practical on PC I recall reading somewhere that Epic did that for their Matrix thingy on the consoles.
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Apr 15, 2023 21:06
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yeah that's about the extent of what's publicly known about the console RT APIs, but in principle they should be able to expose a lot more of the nitty gritty details since they have a fixed hardware target. directly exposing the raw BVH representation ought to be on the table, which could enable console-exclusive tricks like streaming in sub-trees at arbitrary depth on the fly. maybe they could do nanite-style fine-grained cluster streaming while PC is stuck flipping between discrete LODs.
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Apr 15, 2023 21:09
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repiv posted:yeah that's about the extent of what's publicly known about the console RT APIs, but in principle they should be able to expose a lot more of the nitty gritty details since they have a fixed hardware target. directly exposing the raw BVH representation ought to be on the table, which could enable console-exclusive tricks like streaming in sub-trees at arbitrary depth on the fly. maybe they could do nanite-style fine-grained cluster streaming while PC is stuck flipping between discrete LODs. NVidia is a bit more cagey about their low-level architecture, but I'd be shocked if they didn't have similar functionality for dynamically loading BVH data. Maybe what's holding it back on PC is the lack of an agreed upon binary BVH format.
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Apr 15, 2023 21:22
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repiv posted:iron galaxy ported the same engine to PC for the uncharted collection and did a much better job of it than naughty dogs attempt with TLOU, which was ironically blamed on iron galaxy well, a key difference is the uncharted collection was originally ps4 games that were ported to ps5 with only minor graphical enhancements before being ported to pc, while the last of us is a ground-up ps5 remake that makes heavy use of the ps5's hardware decompression pipeline that seems to be one of the key reasons it's so cpu intensive - to match the ps5's asset streaming & decompression they seem to have just burdened the cpu with all that work that it didn't have on the ps5. there are almost certainly more efficient/pc-friendly ways they could have implemented it, and directstorage (which they didn't use) is supposed to help with that problem to some extent, but that would have all been more work and this was clearly a very rushed port.
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Apr 16, 2023 05:06
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Former Human posted:This guy has a lot of balls predicting that the RTX 5090 will have big performance. He's taking a big risk and could end up with egg on his face! I mean at the rate we're going they'll call the xx70-tier an xx90-tier so...
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Apr 16, 2023 05:19
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repiv posted:apparently the raytracing options have been removed from RE2make and RE3make (??) RT on was causing crashing every few minutes for a ton of people, myself included. The official solution was to turn down options until you were below the VRAM limit including a few specific options like shadows but this did nothing for me or a lot of others. It would still crash roughly every 5 minutes. A shame because the framerate was quite good for RT on a 3070.
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Apr 16, 2023 05:20
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Hemish posted:It's not a good period for PC games (that are cross platforms) and most games get released too early with bugs but the timeline of The Last of Us release can't be a coincidence with it coming at about the same time as the TV show which is based on that first game in the series. If it gets the Horizon : Zero Dawn treatment and gets fixed properly on PC, it will end up being pretty good on PC but it doesn't excuse paying 93$Cnd (79.99$ + taxes where I live) for a broken mess at launch when it's backed by mega studios and mega corporations. I'm surprised it didn't get the 89.99$Cnd pricing (that's our next gen pricing on your 69.99$us) which totals at 104$Cnd here. which is why i said gently caress it all and just watch streamers play games for free (no load times, DRM, cooling, power and storage to worry about too)
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Apr 16, 2023 05:27
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Palladium posted:which is why i said gently caress it all and just watch streamers play games for free (no load times, DRM, cooling, power and storage to worry about too) e: and sometimes a rock Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 07:31
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Palladium posted:no load times,... , cooling, power and storage to worry about too) This but with GeForce Now
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Apr 16, 2023 07:46
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So now the 4070 is out. We going to see a response from AMD at all soon? 7700/7800? Right now it seems both companies don't really care about competing and this whole generation is gonna suck. Could just pick up a 6800xt for £500ish I guess.
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Apr 16, 2023 09:19
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As a 6800xt owner Don't buy AMD
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Apr 16, 2023 09:47
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:As a 6800xt owner I bought a 6800 and have been entirely happy with it thus far.
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