|
Give a man a bowl of noodles and you feed him for a day. Give a man a sword and you turn him into a killer for the rest of his life.
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:17 |
|
|
Rogue AI Goddess posted:So could Alison, and yet here we are. Allison got the Key of Kings very literally shoved into her possession and carried on the lightning to Throne. She has tried to quit this path multiple times and it never worked. Maya is a useful teacher but she chose demiurge much more consciously and much more freely than Allison chose the whole multiversal war thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:30
|
|
|
Allison's whole arc resembles Incubus's more than anybody's, in that the universal war came to him catastrophically one day, he picked up a bunch of crazy powers basically just flailing around trying to survive and by the time he could have possibly used that to bail and choose a different outcome for himself he was no longer the kind of person who would ever choose that. How they diverge, well, we'll see. Allison's somewhat a nicer person right now but she's spent a huge chunk of the comic mainly caring about the people she keeps coming back for in the abstract, any one of the motivations she's landed on could easily still end with something like him
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:41
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:Allison got the Key of Kings very literally shoved into her possession and carried on the lightning to Throne. She has tried to quit this path multiple times and it never worked. Maya is a useful teacher but she chose demiurge much more consciously and much more freely than Allison chose the whole multiversal war thing. Allison could very well have quit after she came back to Earth the first time. She made a conscious decision to come back and save Zaid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:41
|
|
|
I mean she'd be wondering when one of those guys will open up her world to snack on it like a can of unheated spaghettios but yeah.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
gross go put your spaghettios on the stove for ten minutes guy
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
royalty is a continuous can-opener rotation
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:Ironically enough the only one among the Seven whose first steps toward Demiurgehood seem to have been taken out of his own initiative is Mammon, from a species who's not even supposed to have that much Will in the first place. I like this sassy swordsman 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
This is the page where I think Alison first really turns away from the path that Incubus and Maya walked. She could always step back onto it, and probably nearly will, but it's that moment where it's like "yeah, the Demiurges are loving idiots and not in the cool furious dumbass way"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:17
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:For most of em it wasn't. Incubus went from dying child to some kind of mercenary to molding himself into the kind of person who doesn't die horribly in those situations, Mottom took the key in a desperation bid to just not get serial killed by her husband, Jagganoth also child soldier plus possibly some kind of angelic Terminator? And so on. Maya had a nice life and said "gently caress that I wanna be a killer" and then never looked back until the even better killer made fun of her for it she is not a sentimental homebody deep down Maya probably would have been a refugee or war casualty if she wasn't a soldier, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:27
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:This is the page where I think Alison first really turns away from the path that Incubus and Maya walked. She could always step back onto it, and probably nearly will, but it's that moment where it's like "yeah, the Demiurges are loving idiots and not in the cool furious dumbass way" Teamwork will win. Teamwork and a little nookie https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/ksbd-2-31/ (meaning all we have seen is the destructive power of the keys. We have rarely seen the creative powers, and I think that is the root of the solution to the cycles Zoss kicked off.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Allison's whole arc resembles Incubus's more than anybody's, in that the universal war came to him catastrophically one day, he picked up a bunch of crazy powers basically just flailing around trying to survive and by the time he could have possibly used that to bail and choose a different outcome for himself he was no longer the kind of person who would ever choose that. How they diverge, well, we'll see. Allison's somewhat a nicer person right now but she's spent a huge chunk of the comic mainly caring about the people she keeps coming back for in the abstract, any one of the motivations she's landed on could easily still end with something like him I should reread that volume, Incubus is so much awful fun. The disdain clanging in those quotation marks around “moral.”
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:45
|
|
|
Rotten Red Rod posted:Maya probably would have been a refugee or war casualty if she wasn't a soldier, though. Sure everyone gets their turn to be the battleground of the universal war eventually, when she chose to dive in it wasn't an immediate concern. Her hometown, like her vegetable garden, may well have rode it out just fine if there weren't a demiurge's family to be hunted down there. But yes that's the abstract problem every great failure in the comic has ultimately been ruined by. Put down the sword and you'll be easy prey for whatever power-hungry maniac rolls along looking to sack cities and stack bodies; stay in the fight and build the power you need to fend them off by acting like another power-hungry maniac; or seclude yourself with whatever tiny vestige of it doesn't depend on constant exploitation and be fuckin useless like the Ki Rata monks: none of the options Allison's been presented with for dealing with the state of the world have been good at all and she's sort of waffling about what alternative there might be (which, I think, is the point Maya/Meti is getting to here). Joe Slowboat posted:I should reread that volume, Incubus is so much awful fun. The disdain clanging in those quotation marks around “moral.” it's so good and yeah now I'm stuck on a reread Bilirubin posted:Teamwork will win. Teamwork and a little nookie It's a lot easier to destroy than create. The demiurges in power now are... specifically not the creative type, and barely even use their keys except as some kind of boost to the stuff they could do before they ever got them, but given an even vaguely equal playing field the guy kicking over sandcastles is going to eventually get his way over the guy building them. We have civilization IRL because it's effectively impossible for one person to do either on a whim and nations that just burn everything down tend not to survive long, most likely way out of the universal war is shaping up to be getting rid of the keys and the last guy who knows how to make new ones. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Apr 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:45
|
|
|
Bilirubin posted:all we have seen is the destructive power of the keys. We have rarely seen the creative powers, and I think that is the root of the solution to the cycles Zoss kicked off. Solomon David has explicitly used his power for creation, but he's also used it to keep his perfect creation in stasis. Alison's epiphany is about growth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 16:53
|
|
|
Human history is also extremely full of examples of great creations either being destroyed or defended, and the defenders always have to burn something on that bloody altar as well. The comic makes it about magical sword kings, but empires are real, and the terrible question of violence is pretty meaningful in this very year. I don’t really expect Abaddon to genuinely solve the problem of “we don’t want a social order founded on violence but we would like an order that can overpower violent threats” but I’m excited to see where Allison goes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 17:20
|
|
|
There's a pretty obvious tension between the theme of breaking old cycles, White Chain's revolutionary epiphany, etc. and the hopeless absurdism espoused at the conclusion of the Jadis arc, where ultimately inevitability wins out and the only meaningful success to be found is to change how you feel about it. As the question of "what exactly is going on with these cycles" becomes more prominent, that tension is only gonna increase, and ultimately Allison finding a personal answer to this is a much more likely conclusion than her really adressing the violence inherent in the system.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
Abbadon said Trotsky (not lyin Leon) was right, only way forward is permanent revolution
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 17:52
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:There's a pretty obvious tension between the theme of breaking old cycles, White Chain's revolutionary epiphany, etc. and the hopeless absurdism espoused at the conclusion of the Jadis arc, where ultimately inevitability wins out and the only meaningful success to be found is to change how you feel about it. As the question of "what exactly is going on with these cycles" becomes more prominent, that tension is only gonna increase, and ultimately Allison finding a personal answer to this is a much more likely conclusion than her really adressing the violence inherent in the system. I mean I think there is a (somewhat depressing) conclusion of “there is no end of history, only continuing to strive and not being ruled by fear” that seemed like the clear conclusion of Solomon David’s situation. “Socialism without guarantees” comes to mind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 18:16
|
|
|
See this is a story about how swords are useless and uncool, but also a story about how sometimes swords are cool and essential.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 19:01
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:It's a lot easier to destroy than create. The demiurges in power now are... specifically not the creative type, and barely even use their keys except as some kind of boost to the stuff they could do before they ever got them, but given an even vaguely equal playing field the guy kicking over sandcastles is going to eventually get his way over the guy building them. We have civilization IRL because it's effectively impossible for one person to do either on a whim and nations that just burn everything down tend not to survive long, most likely way out of the universal war is shaping up to be getting rid of the keys and the last guy who knows how to make new ones. The only moral use of absolute power is to absolutely destroy power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 19:12
|
|
|
Rohan Kishibe posted:See this is a story about how swords are useless and uncool, but also a story about how sometimes swords are cool and essential. The story is about how swords and magic powers are amazingly cool, but ultimately useless because you're not really getting anywhere by throwing them around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Thundarr posted:The only moral use of absolute power is to absolutely destroy power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
Rogue AI Goddess posted:Which is why Lord Intra was the best He didn't kill the tyrant, though. The Song of Maybe posted:Yem Yeddo was astonished, and a great terror overwhelmed him. He was a quick and cowardly man, and fled. The people rejoiced and the granaries were broken open. The bodies of the tyrannical lord’s men were burned without rites and stomped upon. Flour was dragged forth by the sackful, the well Intra dug was quickly filled with fresh water and reinforced with stone, and soon many loaves of bread were emerging, steaming, from his oven. A goat was slaughtered and a great feast was had.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 22:08
|
|
|
W.T. Fits posted:The Song of Maybe posted: Ah, the answer is not use the Fires of God as an especially sharp rock, but to use enough sharp rocks to topple the gods.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
W.T. Fits posted:He didn't kill the tyrant, though. mf condensed the entirety of revolutionary theory down to "git gud"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 22:56
|
|
|
drat i needto consider this getting good more seriously
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:08
|
|
|
"Look yonder, at Allison Wanda Ruth. Six Billion Demons will lie dead at their feet. Bask in their efficacy! Are they not spectacular at turning devils into ghosts? Behold! The awesome Hero's Journey. The limitless power of a training montage with a wise mentor. Look carefully! Observe how it is used to merely 'git gud'."
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:41
|
|
|
Allison is the living proof that fundamentals<schmovement
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:42
|
|
|
I mean Jagganoth got pretty tired there just trying to blast everyone to sword hell, so I figure they just have to exhaust him then best the rest of the asses, then make him have to choose between admitting he wants to kill people who aren't being poo poo and don't want to die, and just calming the gently caress down for at least long enough to sit down and eat something, maybe take a walk in the woods. Like he's fighting to drag down the demiurges and destroy their world but I dunno if his appetite for just killing harmless village after harmless village without actual reason (like them being important sources of food for his enemies who are scouring the world/ruling with a tyrannical iron fist, eating people and being stinky) has really been tested. Yes Rayuba but Solomon made that place by hand, and it's unquestionable that a whole drat lot of blood went into making it, and continues to in order to maintain it. Would he do the same to people who know the shittiness of the world, try to help those they can and refuse to become part of the problem? How many would he go through before starting to just feel like he's wasting his time, and if there was nothing else besides them before he started just waiting and seeing what happened?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2023 23:58
|
|
|
Jagganoth calls killing people “freeing them from this corpse reality” and is pretty open to the idea that death is a mercy in this universe, so… I don’t think “hey you’re killing innocents” will do much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:03
|
|
|
jagganoth has spent like... his entire life killing people who can't hurt him for no reason he particularly troubles himself about. And countless lives previous to that. He wasn't vaporizing big chunks of Rayuba because they were complicit in imperialism, man, he just kills, and the only moral qualm he has expressed re:killing is that it's pretty hosed up some people are unwilling to die themselves
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:Jagganoth calls killing people “freeing them from this corpse reality” and is pretty open to the idea that death is a mercy in this universe, so… I don’t think “hey you’re killing innocents” will do much. Yeah, this is why I don't think the Question is going to be "What do you think of death?" It's been pretty much established what he thinks of death by this point!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
Counterpoint, all non poo poo places to live so far have been built on a continuously growing mountain of corpses. I suspect he might actually focus on the folks actually making life extra hell first unless you think he's in it for the sadism rather than a deranged attempt to reduce suffering born from the idea that everyone is having as poo poo of a time as Jagganoth is in his own head and never won't be doing that. Either way the alternative is killing the unkillable/sealing away a dude with a majority of the 777,777 names of god stuffed in his noggin while being a furious dumbass the size of a truck, so I don't think trying to survive him and beat the other assholes and make a world that will break his determination to kill everyone is so unreasonable compared to the alternative. Actually I wonder if Jagganoth is also immune to helpful effects as well? Because if you could magically block PTSD episodes and perhaps have his body not in constant agony perhaps he'd be easier to talk out of the idea of life sucking and how everyone should stop doing it. Ib4 They throw a fuckload of mushrooms in Jagganoths mouth. Also do you think a tiger would be housecat sized or smaller for him proportionately?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
thechosenone posted:Counterpoint, all non poo poo places to live so far have been built on a continuously growing mountain of corpses. I suspect he might actually focus on the folks actually making life extra hell first unless you think he's in it for the sadism rather than a deranged attempt to reduce suffering born from the idea that everyone is having as poo poo of a time as Jagganoth is in his own head and never won't be doing that. he has explicitly said his intent is to kill everyone everywhere and restart the universe over. in his view every single living thing is making life "extra hell" because the mere act of persisting in this reality perpetuates its suffering there is no one in this comic more unerringly convinced of their own righteousness than jagganoth. when someone proposes using violence to improve or save the world, jagganoth is their guy. he's continued his campaign throughout spans of time that might well be literally unfathomable without wavering, because the Cut is the only language he understands and no one does it better than he does
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
he got punched in the nuts and didnt flinch, op
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:he has explicitly said his intent is to kill everyone everywhere and restart the universe over. in his view every single living thing is making life "extra hell" because the mere act of persisting in this reality perpetuates its suffering ? Okay so we're not talking diplomacy here, I and others have probably suggested moving the universe away from him a la SpongeBob moving Bikini Bottom, and Maya has stated both killing and defeating him are the wrong questions to ask (with defeating him being better, but still wrong). So I'm seeing this leaving , how to cut him (since that seems more specific still and I'd say he'd be a lot easier to deal with if you could cut him into a bunch of angry/depressed pieces, but this also just sounds like more of the same.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:57
|
|
|
He's concerned with injustice on the order of 'the existence of time itself ', suspect if he was particularly inclined to be derailed by proposals for an incremental approach to more equitable grain distribution among the peasantry he'd already have used the seventh of the universe he personally owned to found a NGO instead of forging himself into a walking apocalypse to kill every peasant, their masters, their kids, their dogs, and also most abstract concepts they may be familiar with
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
Jaggs needs to Vote! Jaggs eternal anger comes from losing his ability to macrodose ThatBasqueGuy fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Apr 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 01:00
|
|
|
thechosenone posted:
(Jagganoth turns to camera): in my busy and demanding day-to-day life as a Wheel turning king and Lord of Rage, sometimes I find that I'm slowed down by those aches and pains that intensify through unnaturally extended lifetimes. That's why I use
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:17 |
|
|
Jagganoth doesn't do drugs, even the FDA-approved kind. Stoically taking ultimate attacks to the junk just hardens his resolve and proves the rightness of his cause.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2023 01:20
|
|