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Sakurazuka posted:Still the dumbest twist I've ever seen lol What twist was that?
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Apr 17, 2023 22:33
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ninjewtsu posted:That occam's razor option brings up the question of how suletta looks like nadim's kid too and that's not a question with an answer that is both easy and satisfying Eh, I think cryo is still interesting, if only because it raises the question of why.
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Apr 17, 2023 22:44
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King of Solomon posted:Eh, I think cryo is still interesting, if only because it raises the question of why. Presumably to delay suletta being of high school age until aerial would be ready to fight in high school duels. I can't imagine many reasonable alternatives tbh, especially any that would have had a modicum of foreshadowing. That of course invites the question "why wouldn't the writers just ditch the pointless cryo concept and say the vanadis incident happened 17 years ago" and like with suletta=eri I don't think there's a satisfying answer to be found there
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Apr 17, 2023 23:06
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Arc Hammer posted:Commerce is our goal here at Shin Sei More human than human is our motto.
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Apr 17, 2023 23:10
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ninjewtsu posted:Presumably to delay suletta being of high school age until aerial would be ready to fight in high school duels. I can't imagine many reasonable alternatives tbh, especially any that would have had a modicum of foreshadowing. I think if they did go with cryo as part of the answer to those questions (and at this point I don't think they will), there would be more complexity to the reasoning than that. It would probably involve some combination of Quiet Zero, Elnora needing to lay low for a while, maybe some personal rationalizations, etc., etc. It's not necessarily super cut and dry, which is why I think it's an interesting option.
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Apr 17, 2023 23:10
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Personally if Suletta is some kind of test-tube baby (or something else) I wouldn't necessarily expect them to go into exactly why she still looks like Nadim, since it's looking like you'll have to accept crazier concepts this half of the season. Plus it might happen at a point where it'd be impractical to info-dump.
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Apr 17, 2023 23:41
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Perhaps the datastorm takes some human DNA with it and Aerial is Suletta's sister and DNA donor.
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Apr 17, 2023 23:43
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King of Solomon posted:I think if they did go with cryo as part of the answer to those questions (and at this point I don't think they will), there would be more complexity to the reasoning than that. It would probably involve some combination of Quiet Zero, Elnora needing to lay low for a while, maybe some personal rationalizations, etc., etc. It's not necessarily super cut and dry, which is why I think it's an interesting option. But stuff like "elnora has to lay low for a while" is the same problem. The writers get to choose how long elnora needs to lay low for. Why introduce a 4 year time gap for background fluff? What does that add?
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Apr 18, 2023 00:04
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ninjewtsu posted:But stuff like "elnora has to lay low for a while" is the same problem. The writers get to choose how long elnora needs to lay low for. Why introduce a 4 year time gap for background fluff? What does that add? It would be part of a broader explanation of what happened with Elnora between the prologue and the start of the show: what decisions did she need to take, how was she impacted by those choices? I imagine spending several years with your child in cryo sleep would gently caress with your head. I dunno, I think it's potentially interesting, anyway.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:16
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King of Solomon posted:It would be part of a broader explanation of what happened with Elnora between the prologue and the start of the show: what decisions did she need to take, how was she impacted by those choices? I imagine spending several years with your child in cryo sleep would gently caress with your head. I dunno, I think it's potentially interesting, anyway. 'Cyro' is a solution in search of a problem. It can't fit all questions.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:20
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The cryo thing is definitely like the way weirder and more contrived theory, especially with how purposeful and foreshadowing everything season 1 was.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:20
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Kchama posted:'Cyro' is a solution in search of a problem. It can't fit all questions. I agree in part, and I think it's unlikely to be used at this point. My entire argument is that it doesn't remove the mystery from the show.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:25
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It does but it introduces brand new mysteries to replace them, which I guess is an approach But like with previous theories involving cryo one has to ask, if that kind of tech is around how have we gone this many episodes without an inkling of a suggestion that cryo is part of the universe? Now we're more than halfway through the show instead of a third in too
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Apr 18, 2023 00:29
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Justin_Brett posted:Personally if Suletta is some kind of test-tube baby (or something else) I wouldn't necessarily expect them to go into exactly why she still looks like Nadim, since it's looking like you'll have to accept crazier concepts this half of the season. Plus it might happen at a point where it'd be impractical to info-dump. She doesn't even need to be a test tube baby, just conceived shortly before the Incident, with Prospera coming to realize it later. Mothers can sometimes grow distant from a child in the womb, to the point of having little to no maternal affection for them when born. Especially if consumed by thoughts of revenge, I'd imagine she could easily conceive of them as nothing more than a tool for that.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:31
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So was she just pregnant for four years then
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Apr 18, 2023 00:32
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I posted shortly about Transistor earlier and now I'm definitely on the theory that datastorms don't go the direction everyone thinks and it's instead digitizing the pilot's mind into the machine. Eri being hooked up so young let her fully imprint into Aerial but it may also have taken her mind or more entirely away. The four year timeframe is about right for this to have happened, a little grieving, and then deciding to clone Eri to have a second daughter. That's where Prospera's weirdness about whether she has two daughters or one seems to come from to me, plus it lines up with the 1 vs 2 motto. If Aerial can reimprint Eri back onto a clone of herself, that also feeds directly into functional immortality and space-worthiness of the human race.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:37
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We'll be theorizing about this all week and then Prospera will just matter of factly explain everything before giving Bel another cryptic "go gently caress yourself" response.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:42
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"Actually Suletta is in her early twenties and is so uncharacteristically good at lying about it that nobody suspects/so stupid she can't count her own age" is a far more contrived answer than "sperm on ice," and also a far lamer answer than some of the weirder and potentially more interesting theories people have been putting out.
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Apr 18, 2023 00:44
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I finally caught up and yeah... a lot to process. I agree that data storms are you becoming one with the computer. essentially destroys the barrier between person and machine. so your brain goes on to living digitally this would also fit, thematically, with the Newtype ghost poo poo that happens in UC
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Apr 18, 2023 00:46
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Ranzear posted:the 1 vs 2 motto oh god dammit
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Apr 18, 2023 00:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw39oorCfBY
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Apr 18, 2023 00:59
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Ranzear posted:Eri being hooked up so young let her fully imprint into Aerial but it may also have taken her mind or more entirely away. The one thing that gives me pause here is that Eri didn't seem particularly worse off by her time piloting the Lfrith, while everyone else going red Permet is obviously suffering pain (Wendy, Nadim, El4n, more recently Sophie, and Norea to a lesser extent) Granted, Elnora was loving horrified by the realization that Eri was the one that got to punch through Layer 33, but does that mean it was Elnora's fate to have her consciousness absorbed by Lfrith? Cardo shut down the experiment because Elnora was trying to brute force it, was it that she was rushing headlong into it because she was scared of the ultimate outcome?
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Apr 18, 2023 01:13
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I'm curious how much of Elnora is left and if Prospera is just what remains. I don't know what broke inside Elnora if it was just a mental break that led her down this path or if something also happened to her as happened to Ericht. If extensive permet scores leave human imprints within the data flow what's to say that other people who were struck down by the network haven't also been leaving imprints that can be imparted onto future pilots? How much of Nadim might still be in the datastorms?
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Apr 18, 2023 01:16
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Ammat The Ankh posted:The most insane theory I've heard so far (and thus the funniest/best) is that Aerial is the Lfrith with Eri's mind uploaded to it. And Suletta? That's Eri with Lfrith's AI downloaded to it. I've decided this post from months back is True actually.
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Apr 18, 2023 01:18
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don't date robots
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Apr 18, 2023 01:20
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Meowywitch posted:don't date robots Don't kinkshame
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Apr 18, 2023 01:22
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Meowywitch posted:don't date robots You're unworthy of the Queer Illuminati title.
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Apr 18, 2023 02:02
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chrome line posted:What twist was that? There was a twist in some mystery game, that there was a character who was always just out of camera view. They never show up on screen and are never mentioned by anybody else until the end of the game. Trying to remember what game it was.
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Apr 18, 2023 02:22
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that was zero time dilemma, it was one of uchikoshi's more bullshit twists
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Apr 18, 2023 02:47
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lih posted:that was zero time dilemma, it was one of uchikoshi's more bullshit twists Which is saying something, as one of his twists was “the exact same incident happened forty years apart and both of them have people who are exactly identical and have the same names, and amnesia caused two different people to take the same names but are the viewpoint characters so you can’t tell they look completely different and aren’t the same person”.
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Apr 18, 2023 03:00
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Meowywitch posted:don't date robots 
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Apr 18, 2023 03:24
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lih posted:that was zero time dilemma, it was one of uchikoshi's more bullshit twists my motives are....complex.
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Apr 18, 2023 03:26
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The funny thing about all the questions of whether Suletta is artificial or biological is that either way Prospera blatantly still sees her as just a tool. Whatever her true origin, she's being treated as a thing instead of as a person by her mother.
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Apr 18, 2023 03:46
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X-Ray Pecs posted:But we have to ask if Suletta is simply just another of Prospera’s daughters, why does she care so much less for her than Eri? Prospera is willing to possibly bend the fabric of reality for Eri, but will call Suletta "the girl" in front of her bride-to-be. Remember also, the times Prospera referred to her daughter that we now know for sure meant Aerial ("I have full faith in my daughter"), or when that guy asked about her daughter Suletta and she just dodged the question. I don’t have an answer for any part of this, and it breaks my heart that Suletta loves her mom truly and deeply, and believes her mom will make everything okay, while Prospera doesn’t even acknowledge her as a daughter unless it’s socially convenient. This can actually be a thing with parents who have experienced tragic losses of children. They become so fixated on their loss that the way they interact with and/or perceive any other children they have is enormously altered. It can manifest in both positive and negative ways - a "positive" way is spoiling the poo poo out any surviving children to try to make up for what they can't give to the lost one, as one example, but it can also manifest in uglier ways like passive neglect or active abuse. We know that Prospera has been basically a haunted, driven person since Vanadis happened, given that she built her entire subsequent life around "making Eri happy". If Suletta was either adopted/built/conceived/whatever after Vanadis, well, that's the ball game - there's no room in her heart for a new child because she's already enshrined her lost one in her mind and no new child will ever possibly measure up to the platonic ideal of Ericht.
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Apr 18, 2023 03:48
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My main curiosity at the moment was whether or not blue = higher permet levels was intended all along. In the prologue, Eri just straight up goes blue permet markings and at the time the assumption was it was denoting that it was safe. Now we know that the blue permet marks mean no such thing. It also brings into question if there was just something special about Eri that let her withstand it for the prologue screen time or if Eri just accidentally took off the limiter on Lfrith and didn't develop fatal complications until later. What if Eri was a casualty in Prospera's revenge scheme because she pushed her too hard, thus causing that vague goal of making Eri happy?
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Apr 18, 2023 04:11
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I'm leaning towards the Elan explanation for now. It requires the least in the way of new technologies, is monstrous but has a clear logical throughline for why Suletta "doesn't count". Other explanations are still in play, but that's the one that would take the least time to explain, I think.
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Apr 18, 2023 04:32
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What, did Prospera knock her out and update the plastic surgery every few years while she was growing to make sure she didn't have a hosed up frankenstein face?
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Apr 18, 2023 04:51
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X-Ray Pecs posted:
It just jumps out a bit, like either pulling Eri out of the Lfrith entirely or pushing her further to become one with it. Moving forward gave her two daughters. The older looking Suletta in the outro kinda suggests this too, like it's Eri taking over temporarily to control the bits and do the robit dismantling. If it took four years to come up with the plan and further developments to have Lfrith/Aerial wreck face at the school to get into the corporate circle/revenge plot position (even though Mio wasn't born yet either, hmm) then needing an appropriately aged non-digital child was necessary just to keep up appearances and hide the winning hand. One extra thing in the prologue is when dad is going hard on the permet and starts seeing some digital poo poo happening, just before thinking of his family. This also lends to the Transistor thing (gently caress I love that game).
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Apr 18, 2023 05:09
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Argas posted:My main curiosity at the moment was whether or not blue = higher permet levels was intended all along. In the prologue, Eri just straight up goes blue permet markings and at the time the assumption was it was denoting that it was safe. Now we know that the blue permet marks mean no such thing. It also brings into question if there was just something special about Eri that let her withstand it for the prologue screen time or if Eri just accidentally took off the limiter on Lfrith and didn't develop fatal complications until later. What if Eri was a casualty in Prospera's revenge scheme because she pushed her too hard, thus causing that vague goal of making Eri happy? The Eri shown inside the data storm was visually older than when we saw her in the prologue, which points towards the latter part of your spoiler. As for blue permet, what we have so far is that Eri's permet went blue when she connected to Lfrith, and Aerial glows blue when attaining a permet score of 6. Notably the Gunvolvas,the Ur AND Sophie also glowed blue when Aerial took them over, which means those permet links went to 6, which is what killed Sophie? Kanos posted:What, did Prospera knock her out and update the plastic surgery every few years while she was growing to make sure she didn't have a hosed up frankenstein face? Yeah, any theory about Suletta has to take into account that the novella gives us a POV of her growing up over 11 (I think) years and there's no hint of any weirdness about her from either the Mercurians or Aerial.
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Apr 18, 2023 05:10
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Kanos posted:What, did Prospera knock her out and update the plastic surgery every few years while she was growing to make sure she didn't have a hosed up frankenstein face? Hellbore posted:Yeah, any theory about Suletta has to take into account that the novella gives us a POV of her growing up over 11 (I think) years and there's no hint of any weirdness about her from either the Mercurians or Aerial.  i think "they figured out how to make the alterations grow with the kid" is about as much of a new tech rear end pull as cryo or cloning, but does tie into already known information and also ties into el4n's deal about comparisons between him and suletta
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Apr 18, 2023 05:14
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