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stephen_falken
Mar 28, 2023

by the sex ghost

cruft posted:

It's probably safe to assume that any random person thinks leasing something in perpetuity sucks balls compared to owning something.

And buddy, have I got good news for you about what General Motors is planning. Where "good" here means "terrible".

Yep I hear you bro, I guess I was hoping for some special hack or whatever, but it's the way of the world. I can tell I'm ageing out of society lol

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Is there any guidance on what an appropriate amount of practicing (of the piano, in this case) is to do in a day? I imagine there's some tipping point where you're too tired to benefit, and that it's probably different for different people, but I'm curious what findings there might be.

Different question: any recommendations for improving speed at the piano without sacrificing accuracy? The piece I'm working on has some fast arpeggios that span 1.5 to 2 octaves, as well as some whole-hand chords that move around fast enough that I have trouble landing the jumps cleanly. For example:



The BPM on this piece is listed as 53 per dotted half note. I can sometimes manage to land the last measure on the first row there, but I feel like I need to be looking in two places at once, because both hands are doing jumps that I can't just do by feeling where I am on the keyboard.

The second row is more doable, in the second that I can regularly get individual measures cleanly; I just struggle to get the entire passage cleanly. Either I'll slip in the right hand and hit extra notes, or the left hand will miss one of the jumps.

Third question: any advice for finding a piano teacher that takes adult students? Everyone around me seems to be geared towards teaching kids.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

I don't know about piano, but on guitar I find around 45 minutes of focused practice is about my limit before I need a break.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

i usually practice piano about 1-2 hours, but broken into two sessions at different types of day

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
A theory question, but more of a thought while in the bathroom at work.

Are power chords actually chords or are they technically double stops?

webcams for christ
Nov 2, 2005

Disco Pope posted:

A theory question, but more of a thought while in the bathroom at work.

Are power chords actually chords or are they technically double stops?

it depends on whose definition of chord you prefer.

a double stop is a dyad performed on two strings of a string instrument.

if a power chord is just the root and fifth, it's also definitely a dyad or double stop, and maybe a chord. if the power chord has more than just 2 discrete pitches, then it's likely best described as a chord.

but "Chord" doesn't have a universally agreed-upon definition. see the Wikipedia entry:

Chord (music) - Wikipedia posted:

Ottó Károlyi[9] writes that, "Two or more notes sounded simultaneously are known as a chord," though, since instances of any given note in different octaves may be taken as the same note, it is more precise for the purposes of analysis to speak of distinct pitch classes. Furthermore, as three notes are needed to define any common chord, three is often taken as the minimum number of notes that form a definite chord.[10] Hence, Andrew Surmani, for example, states, "When three or more notes are sounded together, the combination is called a chord."[11] George T. Jones agrees: "Two tones sounding together are usually termed an interval, while three or more tones are called a chord."[12] According to Monath, "a chord is a combination of three or more tones sounded simultaneously", and the distances between the tones are called intervals.[13] However, sonorities of two pitches, or even single-note melodies, are commonly heard as implying chords.[14] A simple example of two notes being interpreted as a chord is when the root and third are played but the fifth is omitted. In the key of C major, if the music stops on the two notes G and B, most listeners hear this as a G major chord.

Since a chord may be understood as such even when all its notes are not simultaneously audible, there has been some academic discussion regarding the point at which a group of notes may be called a chord. Jean-Jacques Nattiez explains that, "We can encounter 'pure chords' in a musical work", such as in the "Promenade" of Modest Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition but, "often, we must go from a textual given to a more abstract representation of the chords being used", as in Claude Debussy's Premičre arabesque.[8]

cruft
Oct 25, 2007

Disco Pope posted:

A theory question, but more of a thought while in the bathroom at work.

Are power chords actually chords or are they technically double stops?

I thought I was in the electronics thread and was about to correct your spelling until I got very confused.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

cruft posted:

I thought I was in the electronics thread and was about to correct your spelling until I got very confused.

Yeah, it's short for chorduroy

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Earwicker posted:

i usually practice piano about 1-2 hours, but broken into two sessions at different types of day

Just cause I’m curious, what’s your threshold for stopping when you stop? Is it that you’re done with a specific selection of practice items, goal-based, hands/ears/brain just crapping out?

This is to the room, so to speak ; I’m just generally curious and Earwicker’s post was a good one to quote.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I generally stop either when my performance is clearly degrading (don't practice sucking or you'll just get better at sucking) or when I get too frustrated or otherwise in the wrong mindset.

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007

WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR
Why do stringed instruments tend to have the number of strings that they do? I'm aware that extended range guitars are a thing, but like is there any particular reason why six strings is the standard? Why are bass guitars the lowest four strings, and not the lowest three or five strings? I imagine there must be a practical reason for it.

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

I think it’s just historical/cultural reasons, lots of string instruments have an exciting number of strings. Sitars have 20ish, ouds have 11, and then on the other end the erhu only has two!

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

There are some practical historical reasons, like 6 strings allowing a full sound while also keeping it feasible to play chords using all strings using 4 fingers. Some might argue that 5 would be plenty though. Basses descent from the violin family, which is designed for single notes and bowing, which makes fewer strings more practical.

But yeah, nowadays you have nerds playing 8 string guitars, mostly without playing full chords, and on the other end you get Stig from DAD playing two string bass because who the gently caress needs D and G:

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Commission a three string krappy punkrod and tune it to a power chord, play everything you need with one finger.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

xzzy posted:

Commission a three string krappy punkrod and tune it to a power chord, play everything you need with one finger.

Custom builds are not very punk though, just rip the jazz strings (G b e) off a knock-off LP

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Plus there are instruments that have courses of strings instead of just one string per note : like the mandolin is tuned like a violin as GDAE by default, but since it's 8 strings in 4 courses of 2 it's actually GGDDAAEE.

There are a load of other non-standard tunings used in specific genres/tunes/moods/when the stars are right : "Cajun" tuning is used in some Zydeco and French Canadian music (FFCCDDGG) ; Old Time has a bunch of weird tunings but the biggest is probably the "sawmill" tunings (GGDDGGDD and AAEEAAEE) which get the name because it makes the whole instrument shake and resonate in some cool ways (Hangman's Reel is a personal favorite example).

But the strings don't have to match at all either. Here's Sierra Hull playing Bill Monroe's Get Up John which is catchy and twangy as all hell because it's in the fun, ridiculous tuning F#ADDAAAE.

free Trapt CD
Aug 22, 2013

*~:coffeepal:~*
I've got plenty of java
and Chesterfield Kings

*~:h:~*
Also worth mentioning string gauge as a limiting factor - the lower you want to go, the thicker and/or longer the strings need to be, and thus the less space on the 'fingerboard' for those instruments generally, thus less strings. cf. the Octobass, more than one full octave lower than the double bass (and thus the modern electric bass), but it only has three strings, and they're so long you can't possibly reach the frets yourself and instead use a combination of levers and pedals to change notes. Didn't catch on, bizarrely.

5-string basses do have a lot of traction, it's worth mentioning, though the 'extra' string goes lower in frequency down where there's still not many other instruments operating. Adding an extra string on top is fine, but those notes tend to be covered by other instruments in the band and won't necessarily get heard through a mix, especially if the sound guy is not very accomodating. You can ask your band to play around that though, of course. Or maybe your guitarist could play a tenor guitar instead!

It's an evolutionary process that continues to follow the development of music genres etc., I guess. A useful comparison point is modern 6-string basses vs. the Fender Bass VI - both '6-string bass' instruments but expressed very differently, different neck widths, string gauge and everything.

e: Forgot to mention you can only put so many strings on an acoustic instrument before it collapses under the pressure, so there was a practical limit there too until the advent of magnetic pickups.

free Trapt CD fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 18, 2023

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007

WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR
Fascinating stuff, thanks everyone! :)

Worth noting in this conversation, I think, are the Presidents of the United States of America; both the guitarist and bassist play two- or three-string guitars with heavier-gauge strings than normal.

quote:

Guitars modified in this way use heavy-gauge strings for a heavier sound and are normally tuned in Drop D, though the Presidents play half a step lower in C#. For a basitar, the strings are placed in the D and G positions. Chris uses a .60 gauge string tuned to C# and a .36 tuned to G#. On a guitbass, the strings are placed in the A, D, and G positions. .54 gauge tuned to C#, .42 to G#, and a .32 gauge tuned to C#.

I was thinking about choosing one of their songs for a lift project in college and wondered how they got their sound until that dawned on me.

I will also say - and maybe this is heretical - I don't really 'get', or like, five-string basses. Maybe I've just never heard one through a proper amp setup but it seems to me that enormous low B string doesn't really sound like anything good at all. It's too low for the fundamental to really come through (believe me, I like sub bass, it's just not there) so all you get is attack and this unpleasant metallic harmonic series. I've argued this at length with my jazz guy friend who loves it. I think it sounds like dogshit. Unless you've got some creative use of distortion going on, I probably don't want to hear your five-string bass.

cruft
Oct 25, 2007

xzzy posted:

Commission a three string krappy punkrod and tune it to a power chord, play everything you need with one finger.

Isn't this the exact technique used by the guitarist from The Presidents Of The United States Of America?

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

I think Keith Richards also routinely discards the high e or just uses those tenor guitars that have four strings.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

cruft posted:

Isn't this the exact technique used by the guitarist from The Presidents Of The United States Of America?

Yes, but they use normal guitars. Not one-offs made by some eccentric in north carolina.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

Xiahou Dun posted:

Plus there are instruments that have courses of strings instead of just one string per note : like the mandolin is tuned like a violin as GDAE by default, but since it's 8 strings in 4 courses of 2 it's actually GGDDAAEE.

there's also a variant of the mandola where the paired strings are tuned an octave apart. it sounds really cool.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Earwicker posted:

there's also a variant of the mandola where the paired strings are tuned an octave apart. it sounds really cool.

The bazouki and they absolutely rule.

I have lusted after one for a while now. It’s pretty high up on my list, even above like a hurdy gurdy or a nyckelharpa.

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
At a big show like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Omtt1xC-o

How many of the guitars are actually plugged in? It really doesn't look like any of the four main guys are actually playing what you're hearing and I imagine it would be a big mess with 6? 7? guitars going all at once.

Jazz Marimba
Jan 4, 2012

all of them, they’re all famous guitarists

but that doesn’t mean they’re each playing unique parts, or even all playing at the same time—notice how a lot of the time willie nelson just isn’t playing, and two of the other singers are playing the same chords with the same voicings

The Leck
Feb 27, 2001

I was recently reading about Anthony Jackson, and his opinion that the electric bass really should be a 6 string instrument, because it's part of the guitar family, not the classical bass family. I'm not sure I'm convinced, but it's definitely not set in stone, especially since the electric bass is such a relatively new instrument.

quote:

Why is four [strings] the standard and not six? As the lowest-pitched member of the guitar family, the instrument should have had six strings from the beginning. The only reason it had four was because Leo Fender was thinking in application terms of an upright bass, but he built it along guitar lines because that was his training. The logical conception for the bass guitar encompasses six strings.

Mister Speaker posted:

I will also say - and maybe this is heretical - I don't really 'get', or like, five-string basses. Maybe I've just never heard one through a proper amp setup but it seems to me that enormous low B string doesn't really sound like anything good at all. It's too low for the fundamental to really come through (believe me, I like sub bass, it's just not there) so all you get is attack and this unpleasant metallic harmonic series. I've argued this at length with my jazz guy friend who loves it. I think it sounds like dogshit. Unless you've got some creative use of distortion going on, I probably don't want to hear your five-string bass.
tbf, a lot of jazz guys seem to love really terrible sounding bass tones, though they're usually on the other end of the fretboard.

JesustheDarkLord
May 22, 2006

#VolsDeep
Lipstick Apathy
I like to use a five-string bass when the extra five half steps will allow me to descend through an entire phrase instead of having to play an octave higher or jump up to a D or whatever. Like Mr. Blue Sky in the chorus starts on a D and ends on a Bb. I tune my low b string down a half step and then I can walk down the entire time and I like it better.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

My main bass is a 5 string, mostly because my former band played Rock Music in E and it was nice to sometimes approach said E from below.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

Jazz Marimba posted:

all of them, they’re all famous guitarists

but that doesn’t mean they’re each playing unique parts, or even all playing at the same time—notice how a lot of the time willie nelson just isn’t playing, and two of the other singers are playing the same chords with the same voicings

to be fair, all four of the main guys are very low in the mix, as evidenced by the fact that the sound doesn't change much when all four put down their guitars and walk off stage lol

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
Yeah maybe "plugged in" is the wrong word, but you're clearly not hearing four acoustics and two electrics, even when they're all visibly "playing."

cruft
Oct 25, 2007

I didn't want to throw in first because I've never done sound for an event this big, but now I feel comfortable saying what's most likely is that everyone is in fact going to the mixer, and they just turned a lot of stuff to inaudibly low.

They may have even done sound checks just in case one of the performers would get their feelings hurt if they were told what was going to happen in reality.

At least one of the performers surely knows what's up. Maybe Willie Nelson. Others might too, and they're still strumming just so they don't feel like a doofus standing around on stage. Backup singers have my respect, I'd feel way to vulnerable if I weren't behind an instrument.

E: and stand-up comics. Terrifying.

cruft fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 21, 2023

widefault
Mar 16, 2009

cruft posted:

At least one of the performers surely knows what's up. Maybe Willie Nelson. Others might too, and they're still strumming just so they don't feel like a doofus standing around on stage. Backup singers have my respect, I'd feel way to vulnerable if I weren't behind an instrument.

E: and stand-up comics. Terrifying.

At least stand-ups have the mic to play with.

The worst is seeing someone who normally plays an instrument end up out front singing, without the instrument, and you can tell they have no idea what to do with their hands or feet or body. Painful to watch.

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007

WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR
Something I'm curious about since I've been embroiled in a couple of threads about 'high-resolution digital audio', analog vs. digital and all that nonsense:

Are there any instruments that do produce oddly-loud overtones outside of the range of human hearing? I'm sure this is something that nobody concerns themselves much with because it ultimately doesn't matter, and obviously also just about every instrument does have harmonics higher than what we hear (the series doesn't just stop at the edge of our hearing), but I'm wondering if anyone has noticed, like, a flute making dogs go crazy or something, because it's got a pronounced amplitude bump at like 40kHz or something that we would just never hear.

for fucks sake
Jan 23, 2016

Guitar quartets are a thing, there was a very cool one on NPR Tiny Desk recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu_PRf1tyjI

Pillow Face
Jun 22, 2004




Spreading the Nite Crew cancer one volunteer shift at a time.

anyone managed to go full ham on acoustic treatment? mine is a work in progress (4 panels so far) and the difference is huge, to where i think this was “it” all along. like all that really matters is room and speakers, other gear isn’t that important

Pillow Face
Jun 22, 2004




Spreading the Nite Crew cancer one volunteer shift at a time.

also, what are your general daw templates like for mixing?

channel strip:
utility > gate > subtractive eq > compressor > additive eq > saturation > clipper

return channels:
short/medium/long reverb > eq

groups/buses:
drum tracks
melodic tracks, subgrouped to bass/mids/leads/vocals
clipping/limiting on each bus

2-bus:
clipper > mid side eq > glue comp > limiter > metering

not sure if saturation should be elsewhere in the chain

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Is there a current hotness for routing midi on Windows these days? I got a situation where an app (midinous) creates a midi port on startup and I want to send its midi through my external interface (an iconnectivity product) to hardware devices. I cannot convince my interface's config app to recognize the existence of midinous' port and this is sending me down the road of finding a software router.

However, everything google is suggesting looks like it was last updated in 2005 and looks sketchy as hell. Which prompts me to ask how people are doing this these days, or if they're doing it at all.

Otis Reddit
Nov 14, 2006
Hey Musician Forum. Anybody out there insuring their instruments? Who do you use (if US-based)?

muike
Mar 16, 2011

ガチムチ セブン
if it's a vintage instrument, there's some guys out there that like verify vintage instruments and can provide paperwork that would be helpful in that regard

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Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



xzzy posted:

Is there a current hotness for routing midi on Windows these days? I got a situation where an app (midinous) creates a midi port on startup and I want to send its midi through my external interface (an iconnectivity product) to hardware devices. I cannot convince my interface's config app to recognize the existence of midinous' port and this is sending me down the road of finding a software router.

However, everything google is suggesting looks like it was last updated in 2005 and looks sketchy as hell. Which prompts me to ask how people are doing this these days, or if they're doing it at all.
The reason all software to do it is ancient is that modern computers are powerful enough to just use a whole DAW for the purpose. Even if you're only routing to hardware instruments, the assumption is that you're going to record their output into the DAW at some point anyway.

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