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Anyone else find with Abomination Vaults that it's hard to know what the players are capable of researching/knowing? Main questline aside (I won't spoil that stuff, but similar questions there), just stuff about the town's history and previous adventurers, there's not really DC's for things so it's hard to know how much of the history has been lost or what is waiting in the library/ book store to be found. I was pondering the GMG's Research rules, and it mentions if they're not under time pressure 'just use the rules in the Core rulebook' but... what rules? Investigate seems tuned to exploration phase, not downtime. Are they just talking about rolling recall knowledge a million times? Even so I have to come up with DC's for everything.
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Apr 18, 2023 03:50
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gurragadon posted:I'm not sure about any LP's but Paizo has a forum for Kingmaker 2e specifically. Actually tried to start playing Kingmaker a month ago- the game ended up hitting a hard crash right at the moment the kingdom building section would have started. But that somehow led me to this thread and finding out that 2e seemed cool so silver linings and all that. I guess I’m less looking for specifics on the subsystems (hexploration, kingdom management, random encounters, planned scenarios) and more how a GMs are bringing all those together session after session. Do they do a session on downtime/kingdom management, then focus on an adventure for 2 sessions, then do some exploration, then start the cycle over? Do they blend all into a 4-5 hour session? Stuff like that. I’ll check out that forum though, thanks 
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Apr 18, 2023 05:57
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Rescue Toaster posted:Anyone else find with Abomination Vaults that it's hard to know what the players are capable of researching/knowing? It's probably more of a judgement call. Like, looking up information on a group of adventurers who had helped save the town from a Bugbear invasion some years ago? Probably Trained. Finding out about the Mayor's illegitimate son that nobody knew about? Probably Expert or Master.
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Apr 18, 2023 12:01
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:
I’ve been running a solo game because Kingmaker felt like it’d not fit the rest of my current group, and we basically just put an hour or two aside to run a turn between ‘expeditions’ into the wilderness currently. Once things kick off proper I’m going to shift into kingdom turns whenever the in game month turns over, but for now mixing it up has worked well and each month early on tends to kick off SOMETHING that they’ve got to put out. I think having it be a between session thing would work best for a normal group basically, or a session devoted to it. It depends how many players are likely to get engaged with it and how many will just shrug
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Apr 18, 2023 12:48
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Actually tried to start playing Kingmaker a month ago- the game ended up hitting a hard crash right at the moment the kingdom building section would have started. But that somehow led me to this thread and finding out that 2e seemed cool so silver linings and all that. Thats a bummer, that game was pretty hard and fun though and I actually got a game over just from failing to manage the kingdom properly which was unexpected. I'd run the kingdom stuff by your group and try to get them to read the player rules and guide on it. It's kind of run like a separate character that levels up and the group and collaboratively decide how to improve. If it's not gelling with your group, you can just set it to auto-upgrade in the background while players do the more traditional TTRPG stuff. Or if only one person was really into it for whatever reason you could do it in between sessions through discord or something with that person. We just blend everything else together in our group though. It took us 2 sessions which were around 4.5 hours each to reach the first destination, Olegs Trading Post. But we also had an event in every hex, some of which involved the named NPCS like Amiri and Jaethal. But our group like's hexploration so again, if thats not working you could limit the randomness with the hex's or just wave the traveling away. There's so much content that I feel like it's pretty impossible to do everything in the adventure.
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Apr 18, 2023 15:48
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Harold Fjord posted:If none of you are elves you don't get to navigate socal situations where everyone hates elves LOL reading this without the context of the posts it is replying to is funny. It's a culture not a costume. 
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Apr 18, 2023 17:23
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A bit late, but regarding the "recommended" elements in the player's guides. Sometimes they're just there for thematic flavor and nothing else. I'm enjoying Blood Lords, but almost every single spell I get as an undead bloodline sorcerer is essentially worthless. Harm and Grasping Grave are basically the only two I ever use. Is it appropriate for the campaign? Hell yeah. But boy did it turn out to be an awful recommendation.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:41
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5-Headed Snake God posted:A bit late, but regarding the "recommended" elements in the player's guides. Sometimes they're just there for thematic flavor and nothing else. I'm enjoying Blood Lords, but almost every single spell I get as an undead bloodline sorcerer is essentially worthless. Harm and Grasping Grave are basically the only two I ever use. Is it appropriate for the campaign? Hell yeah. But boy did it turn out to be an awful recommendation. lol, i'm in a blood lords campaign as a cleric of urgathoa and i know that pain- the only person i can heal in my party with my harm fonts is a dhampir sorcerer. kind of think it might have been better to roll a bard.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:00
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Arrrthritis posted:lol, i'm in a blood lords campaign as a cleric of urgathoa and i know that pain- the only person i can heal in my party with my harm fonts is a dhampir sorcerer. Bards are one of the best classes in the game so probably. But also you'll be fine around level 3, don't worry too much about it. You'll be awesome before you know it. First book spoiler: That adventure path gives everyone access to negative energy healing after the first book.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:19
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gurragadon posted:Thats a bummer, that game was pretty hard and fun though and I actually got a game over just from failing to manage the kingdom properly which was unexpected. This will be a net-new group I'd be recruiting if I end up doing this. I haven't run a game in ~2 years, and I know most of those players wouldn't be interested in this kind of a campaign...so I'd be looking to recruit at some point particularly for people who want to try out sandbox exploring, kingdom building, and possibly more.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:13
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My players met a friendly ghoul but one of them is a Priest of Pharasma. They want to cure him but aren't quite high enough level to have access to reincarnation or resurrection. They basically have 5-6 days before they leave the window where reincarnation might work, which is iffy since they aren't quite level 4 yet and they'd need to be level 5 to perform the ritual. One player suggested using Gentle Repose to extend the time they have. What are everyone's thoughts on allowing this spell that normally only works on corpses to also work on ghouls?
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Apr 18, 2023 19:28
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I'd allow it. If it's something your players really want to do, allow it but maybe tweak it's effectiveness instead of being able to cast it over and over again and to maybe make the players feel the time crunch make it only work like 5 days or something before the negative energy animating the ghoul overpowers it. Or make them have to do a religion check for it to work that day.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:33
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Dexo posted:I'd allow it. That's a great idea. I could maybe even look into using the counteract rules to determine if the check works.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:36
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KPC_Mammon posted:Bards are one of the best classes in the game so probably. One of these days I will finally make my skeleton / aasimar / bard and unleash trumpeter on an unsuspecting group. But knowing that things get better for negative energy healing i'll stick with this guy until he ends up in the fertilizer business.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:42
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I’ve signed up to run Strength of Thousands for my friend group. Maybe overambitious but eh, the roleplaying focus should suit them well. They/I will probably use the Study downtime activity as an excuse for roleplaying scenes that lead into sidequests. Only major change I’ve made is broadening what’s acceptable for qualifying for the arcane or primal spellcasting requirements of the Magaambya. I don’t really see any reason to refuse any caster that finds their way to the arcane or primal spell list by hook or by crook. They still have stuff to learn about magic and themselves.
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Apr 19, 2023 05:52
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Captain Oblivious posted:Only major change I’ve made is broadening what’s acceptable for qualifying for the arcane or primal spellcasting requirements of the Magaambya. I don’t really see any reason to refuse any caster that finds their way to the arcane or primal spell list by hook or by crook. They still have stuff to learn about magic and themselves. You can be any class you want at level 1, even those without any inherent magic like Fighter or Investigator, you just automatically pick up the Wizard or Druid multiclass archetype at level 2 because that's what the Magaambya teaches. If you're already a wizard then you just get druid and vice versa. Are you saying you just changed the archetype to open it up to 'any spellcaster'?
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Apr 19, 2023 10:49
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I'm playing Abomination Vaults as a Mastermind Rogue with Magus free Archetype and I found a +1 Starknife. Is it worth investing in as a weapon or is it better to stick with Rapiers/shortwords? I'm considering putting a rune of returning on it which would make it double pretty well as both a ranged and melee option.
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Apr 19, 2023 11:18
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Clerical Terrors posted:I'm playing Abomination Vaults as a Mastermind Rogue with Magus free Archetype and I found a +1 Starknife. Is it worth investing in as a weapon or is it better to stick with Rapiers/shortwords? I'm considering putting a rune of returning on it which would make it double pretty well as both a ranged and melee option. The good, or reasons to use a Starknife instead of a Rapier: you’re trading away 1 point of damage per die normally and another 1 point on a crit (and the disarm trait, which, lol), in return for +1 to hit on your second attack each round (+2 on your third if you make one), the option to do Slashing damage on demand as enemy weakness/resistance calls for it, and the option to throw the weapon. That’s… a pretty good trade. Especially for a rogue whose damage formula is weighted away from the damage die by things like sneak attack. Now for the bad reason not to: as a rogue you aren’t trained in it and getting any proficiency above trained in it will be a pain in the rear end. If your GM happens to be the sort to handwave the Rogue’s weird legacy martial proficiencies and allow it to apply to any martial weapon, instead of the shortlist of only Rapier Sap Shortsword and Shortbow, then, yeah, absolutely use the star knife if you’re into it. If not, and if you’re level 3 and have a General Feat burning a hole in your pocket, grabbing Weapon Training will make it usable until you hit level 5 if you want, since you won’t hit Expert until then. That’ll give you a little time to decide if you like it. If you do, you can decide whether it’s worth investing in one of the several annoying and costly ways to broaden your weapon proficiencies.
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Apr 19, 2023 12:04
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Chevy Slyme posted:If your GM happens to be the sort to handwave the Rogue’s weird legacy martial proficiencies and allow it to apply to any martial weapon, instead of the shortlist of only Rapier Sap Shortsword and Shortbow, then, yeah, absolutely use the star knife if you’re into it. This happens to be exactly the case, so going by what you said I think I'll invest a bit in it. Since we're currently level 3 there's the future option of taking Strong Arm to make it more effective at range, but that probably means passing up on either Poison Weapon or Magical Trickster. Poison weapon especially seems like it might offer some interesting potential, not sure Magical Trickster is worth it, but having some extra damage on my cantrips probably can't hurt as long as I can reliably get enemies flat-footed.
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Apr 19, 2023 13:06
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bewilderment posted:You can be any class you want at level 1, even those without any inherent magic like Fighter or Investigator, you just automatically pick up the Wizard or Druid multiclass archetype at level 2 because that's what the Magaambya teaches. If you're already a wizard then you just get druid and vice versa. Not any spellcaster, any spellcaster with the arcane or primal spell list. If they want to achieve that with Witch or Sorcerer I don’t see the problem. No reason to mandate specifically Wizard or Druid. It all still winds up at the kind of magic the Magaambya teaches.
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Apr 19, 2023 19:18
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Out of curiosity, how do folks treat making those kind of changes? I’ve got a single 5E campaign under my belt, but I’m still fairly new to being a DM. When players come to me with questions about bending rules, etc, I never really know what to do. I want people to have fun, but I’m not a game designer. My base assumption is always that the rules are written a specific way for a reason. Obviously these systems aren’t perfect and the designers make mistakes. But I’m hesitant to make changes to allow 1 person to do something cool, at the expense of making it extremely unbalanced and unfun for everyone else. Once our current campaign ends we’re going to run the PF2E beginner box and then probably Strength of Thousands. And I honestly have no idea if it’s meaningful or not to let someone choose a different free archetype.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:00
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If you're not sure, go "let's go with X for now, but I'll research this and decide during the week" then search/ask on the Internet after the game.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:11
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Yeah. PF2e is really tight and if the only experience you have is the sloppy jalopy of 5e then don't rely on snap judgements. Assume there is a design principle behind it beyond "that's how we always did it" and check with the experts.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:18
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Russad posted:Out of curiosity, how do folks treat making those kind of changes? I’ve got a single 5E campaign under my belt, but I’m still fairly new to being a DM. When players come to me with questions about bending rules, etc, I never really know what to do. I want people to have fun, but I’m not a game designer. My base assumption is always that the rules are written a specific way for a reason. Generally always lean towards players having fun. Unless it's going to completely change the game and break things. Allowing players to pick a different free archtype of arcane or primal shouldn't be too big of an issue. Essentially Moving around deck chairs. General philosophy is allow players to do whatever they want, unless it's going to like completely break encounter math/change the meta of how every encounter is approached from them, or give them undue power. but swapping something in and out shouldn't do that. And if it does, the key is being willing to tell a players hey, this is having an unintended consequence, we are gonna have to tweak some things.
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Apr 19, 2023 21:55
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Russad posted:[snip] Generally it's best to stick with what the book recommends. I've not read Strength of Thousands specifically because someone else in my group debated running it but "Every player having a magical archetype" seems like a fairly important aspect, with it being Wizard+Druid locked being.. somewhat secondary? I don't think I'd lock a wizard (or druid) from taking a different caster archetype but at the same time I'd be leery of going too far from the baseline and the intention. Mechnically though I'd rather have more people with access to different spell lists, both for party variety reasons and ease of loot distribution. If everyone in the party is an arcane caster, there might be arguments when a wand of Magic Missile or similar gets found. quote:My base assumption is always that the rules are written a specific way for a reason. This is a pretty good atittude for handling 2e rules and homebrew. Think about why they did it this way, and if you disagree with it or think changing it can still stay close to the spirit go ahead and experiment a little. And Thankfully this isn't 5e, so you don't have to homebrew fifty million things to cover for gaps in the ruleset.
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Apr 19, 2023 22:05
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There's basically zero problems in Strength of Thousands with letting players use any archetype that gets access to arcane or primal casting, or letting characters whose class already gives them arcane or primal casting take whatever they want as their free archetype. Going outside of that to "any spellcasting archetype" is stretching it more and you might have to make some adjustments
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Apr 19, 2023 22:34
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Piell posted:There's basically zero problems in Strength of Thousands with letting players use any archetype that gets access to arcane or primal casting, or letting characters whose class already gives them arcane or primal casting take whatever they want as their free archetype. Going outside of that to "any spellcasting archetype" is stretching it more and you might have to make some adjustments Yup. I’ve read deep enough into the various campaign specific archetypes and rewards that I can confidently say that it Really Doesn’t loving Matter where specifically they are getting their access to Arcane or Primal. There is one reward in the campaign that specifically references Wizard or Druid dedication as a prerequisite, but also doesn’t actually require them in an implementation level, so just like…ignore it? Problem solved.
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Apr 19, 2023 22:41
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LukasR23 posted:And Thankfully this isn't 5e, so you don't have to homebrew fifty million things to cover for gaps in the ruleset. LukasR23 posted:Generally it's best to stick with what the book recommends. Back to the subject of picking classes or backgrounds very far afield of what the Adventure Path suggests-- you're signing up for an adventure to be Blood Lords or Circus Performers or Paranormal Investigators or Magic Students. If those concepts aren't appealing to you to create a character in that vein, then you need to communicate with the GM to run something else or open up your mind a bit to the possibilities. PF2e is a game that really rewards you for "coloring inside the lines" but leaves a lot of space within those lines for expression. It's a different, more trusting mentality. The fun thing I've noticed is that once players accept like "Ok so I'm not making my Barney the Hedgehog OC or if I am he has to fit this game's Pirate theme" they realize very quickly that Pathfinder is very supportive and gives them way more wiggle room to be themselves than they thought they had.
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Apr 19, 2023 23:03
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Yeah I think the conversation here is not so much "should you break game conceits willy nilly" and more "what are the game conceits of the path, specifically".
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Apr 19, 2023 23:12
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Ran Strength of Thousands, let people use any archetype that gave them spellcasting. Zero issues. There are one or two minor mechanical bits where druids get an advantage, but its literally once or twice and it doesnt majorly affect anything.
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Apr 20, 2023 00:18
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Thanks for the responses. My approach with players so far in 5e has been pretty much this:Megazver posted:If you're not sure, go "let's go with X for now, but I'll research this and decide during the week" then search/ask on the Internet after the game. So seems like I can keep on keeping on (and from what I've read of the PF2E adventures vs. 5E content, the Paizo stuff seems way more GM friendly anyway).
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Apr 20, 2023 02:42
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mind the walrus posted:
while the post is accurate, one of these is off-base: extinction curse sheds a lot of the concern with the circus pretty quickly, and if you want to run it i highly recommend getting people who are more on board with "unlikely heroes" than people who sincerely want to spend their entire lives as a clown, because when you ask the clowns to do heroics it gets weird re motivation (there's a lot ELSE you have to edit with that game if you don't want really questionable dedication to the heroism too; it really does feel like it got all the writers who don't know what a metaphor is)
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Apr 20, 2023 05:40
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Re: Extinction Curse I always get the impression people were expecting a Circus-driven adventure versus an adventure where the players happen to drive a Circus. Small difference but it explains a fair bit.
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Apr 20, 2023 13:42
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Mister Olympus posted:while the post is accurate, one of these is off-base: extinction curse sheds a lot of the concern with the circus pretty quickly, and if you want to run it i highly recommend getting people who are more on board with "unlikely heroes" than people who sincerely want to spend their entire lives as a clown, because when you ask the clowns to do heroics it gets weird re motivation
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Apr 20, 2023 13:48
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Playing through Abomination Vaults, my group recently got to a point where our DM needed to do a bit of narration, but instead of writing a thing himself he plugged it into ChatGPT and out popped something pretty solid. Spoilers for Abomination Vaults: This is from floor 2, we just met the little demon janitor dude and this was the "memory" he offered in exchange for his survival: FADE IN: EXT. GAUNTLIGHT TOWER - NIGHT 4 figures emerge from the swamp The Gauntlight Tower looms before them, its dark, ominous silhouette casting a deep shadow over the 4 figures as they approached. They all look dusty and haggard as if they had been on this quest for weeks, seeking out the evil necromancer who had taken up residence within the tower's walls. They quietly discuss how treacherous this journey had been, fraught with danger at every turn, but finally, they had arrived.a lithe and nimble figure, leads the charge, sneaking up to the tower's entrance and peering inside. From his vantage point sees a sinister figure with long, flowing hair and a wicked smile, standing in the center of the room. Her eyes gleamed with a malevolent light. INT. GAUNTLIGHT TOWER - MAIN HALL - NIGHT The 4 figures enter keep, which is filled with undead, aberration, and infernal minions. There are so many on the draw bridge that it appears it will buckle under the weight. The 4 quickly spring into action, One member uses stealth to take out a group of skeletons, while another unleashes powerful spells to destroy a group of zombies.A figure clad in armor with the sigil of iomedae charges into battle, his sword glowing with holy energy, as he cuts through the undead with ease. While another provides support from the rear, rasing the holy symbol of sarenrae and casting healing spells to keep his companions alive. NT. GAUNTLIGHT TOWER - SECOND FLOOR - NIGHT The 4 make their way up to the second floor of the tower, where they encounter a group of wraiths. The wraiths prove to be difficult opponents, with their ethereal form making them difficult to hit. However, the 4 figures use their combined skills to defeat the undead horde found here, with the wizard using his magic to make the wraiths corporeal, The Paladin channeling positive energy to damage necrotic flesh. A dagger-wielding man hides in plain sight striking with frighting precision, while The cleric calls upon the power of her deity to turn the undead. Despite their obvious skill, the 4 find themselves in a precarious situation as the upper floor begins to collapse around them and are forced back down CUT TO: INT. GAUNTLIGHT TOWER - MAIN HALL - NIGHT Defeating her minions above the battle is renewed with the woman clad in red robes etched with dark runes that glow with negative energy. The lady of the light is an necromancer, a master of death magic, who will summon a legion of undead warriors to do her bidding. These 4 know they have no choice but to defeat her to save Absalom from her dark influence. The battle begins with the 4 figures charging toward the necromancer and her dark personal guard of evil undead. The necromancer, however, was not one to be underestimated, and unleashes a barrage of dark magic upon the 4 figures, blasting them with bolts of necrotic energy. Despite the necromancer's powerful attacks, the 4 fight on, hacking and slashing their way through the undead guard and countering the necromancer's deadly spells. As the battle rages on, the necromancer grew more and more desperate, summoning even more powerful magic scaring the keep with destruction and magical scars that will linger for generations. Finally, the necromancer unleashed his ultimate spell, a dark ritual that threatened to consume the entire battlefield in a maelstrom of dark energy The resulting explosion of magic was unlike anything anyone had ever seen before. The very fabric of reality seemed to bend and warp as both divine and magical spells collided with the necromancer's dark magic. For a moment, it seemed as though the world itself would be destroyed. The dagger-wielding man finds the floor itself collapse before him and falls into darkness. With no time to mourn their friend the 3 sense weakness and continue to press their foe as she retreats to the gauntlight itself. With her magic exhausted the battle nears its end the necromancer cast one last spell and the world explodes in a blinding pale blue light as the world comes back into focus we see the 3 remaining figures standing over a chard spot on the ground. Though did not notice a single drop of blood lies at the center on the scarred floor. CUT TO: EXT. GAUNTLIGHT TOWER – Swamp Dawn Hours go by as the remaining party members search for their fallen friend but eventually they emerge from the smoldering keep. The surrounding area is littered with the remains of the undead. The 3 heroes were battered and bruised, but hopeful they had defeated the necromancer." That's pretty damned solid. My bard is the only one to see it due to the nature of how it was sent, and it inspired him to bring the concept of the Rock Opera to the world of Golarion.
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Apr 25, 2023 00:28
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Neat! If they feel like sharing I'd be interested in the prompt they constructed and how much backstory they fed into it, since it includes a lot of details on the sequence of events that I think are broken up into different places in the book. There's one thing that seems off, could just be the AI or the prompt or your GM might have changed something. Since I don't know which I won't spoil it... For similar reasons I suspect the GM may not want to provide you the full prompt, I suppose.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:00
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On a 'somewhat' Paizo related note: a youtuber got hold of a new set of MTG cards scheduled for release in a few weeks and did an unboxing video. Wizards of the Coast reacted completely rationally in the wake of the OGL scandal and promptly sent the Pinkertons to his door to confiscate the cards. Is there no one responsible for 'not shooting ourselves in the dick' at that company?
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Apr 25, 2023 08:26
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People are discussing it here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3849301&pagenumber=1055 No need to spread it across multiple threads.
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Apr 25, 2023 09:33
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the Pinkertons still exist.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:04
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https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siae?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-Project A remaster is coming! No more OGL, and no more alignment (but pretty sure it'll be replaced by something similar).
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Apr 26, 2023 19:29
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