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Well look I am (like I imagine many here) posting during work so elaboration of some of my ideas is rather lacking. I won't begrudge folks making fun of my slapped together poo poo posts. I will say no to the idea of me suggesting jag vote. I'm more like saying that if you can actually make a better world (with the understanding that he's also going to be trying to kill you the whole time), he may get tired of trying to destroy it if you can take everything he and the old world and the one you've made all throw at you together. Not any stupider than suggesting that one use an invincibility ignoring killing technique (though given his boss was a consummate liar I suppose you could be forgiven for believing Metatron and everyone who's dealt with him are a bunch of idiots for thinking everything he was told was an absolute and unchangeable fact of reality).
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Apr 18, 2023 01:28
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When your enemy is perfectly immune to violence, can be anywhere at any time, is probably way smarter than you and is definitely way more patient, and believes more powerfully in his cause than anybody else in any universe believes in theirs, using a technique that ignores invincibility is about all there is to try. That leaves Allison with the Superman: Red Son method, and
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Apr 18, 2023 01:34
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Thundarr posted:Jagganoth doesn't do drugs, even the FDA-approved kind. Stoically taking ultimate attacks to the junk just hardens his resolve and proves the rightness of his cause. Gog-agog: ask your doctor if taking ultimate attacks to the junk is right for you. Side effects include death and infertility.
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Apr 18, 2023 02:03
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i bet aspected chaos could beat jagg if they worked on their technique, they got pretty close last time just need to work on the air juggles into finisher frames a bit more
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Apr 18, 2023 02:08
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Sure everyone gets their turn to be the battleground of the universal war eventually, when she chose to dive in it wasn't an immediate concern. Her hometown, like her vegetable garden, may well have rode it out just fine if there weren't a demiurge's family to be hunted down there. None of the other [Color] cities rode things out. Mostly they seem to have been conquered and destroyed because they were there to conquer and destroy.
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Apr 18, 2023 06:09
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Elissimpark posted:Gog-agog: ask your doctor if taking ultimate attacks to the junk is right for you. Side effects include death and infertility. ...but eat this worm and it will give a delightful *honk*!
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Apr 18, 2023 06:19
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Bilirubin posted:Teamwork will win. Teamwork and a little nookie I'd forgotten we actually get a look at the Demiurges early on around there, and It's interesting to see how much they've changed since
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Apr 18, 2023 06:33
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YaketySass posted:Ironically enough the only one among the Seven whose first steps toward Demiurgehood seem to have been taken out of his own initiative is Mammon, from a species who's not even supposed to have that much Will in the first place. I want to hear the story of the demiurge who got out of the game by selling their key to Mammon. Did it work? What made them realize that they'd rather have a fuckzillion dollars than the awesome fires of creation? What did they spend it on? How long did they last before they ate poo poo in the Universal War anyway?
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Apr 18, 2023 07:11
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Bongo Bill posted:I want to hear the story of the demiurge who got out of the game by selling their key to Mammon. Did it work? What made them realize that they'd rather have a fuckzillion dollars than the awesome fires of creation? What did they spend it on? How long did they last before they ate poo poo in the Universal War anyway? Or it might've been from someone who already had quite a few.
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Apr 18, 2023 07:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'd forgotten we actually get a look at the Demiurges early on around there, and It's interesting to see how much they've changed since Jag fat, so what?
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Apr 18, 2023 08:44
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Bilirubin posted:...but eat this worm and it will give a delightful *honk*! *individualresultsmaydiffer*
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Apr 18, 2023 10:06
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Twenty Four posted:Jag fat, so what? What's also interesting is Solomon David depicted with a sword, given he'd later be written as mastering a god-killing martial art and have no need of one.
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Apr 18, 2023 13:29
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Yeah, some of the demiurges went through different looks before they were settled. This is a very smol bean Jagganoth.
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Apr 18, 2023 13:38
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The 18 Precepts of Meti's Sword Manual posted:9. When decapitating an enemy, it is severe impoliteness to use more than one blow. Stinky is an exceptionally poor, and impolite, swordsman.
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Apr 18, 2023 13:56
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I think it only counts as impolite if you actually succeed with the decapitation. otherwise you just look foolish
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Apr 18, 2023 14:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'd forgotten we actually get a look at the Demiurges early on around there, and It's interesting to see how much they've changed since One thing that I miss is that weirdworld vibe from the earlier comic. On the other hand, the current ambience of Throne works much better because of that, too
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Apr 18, 2023 14:52
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'd forgotten we actually get a look at the Demiurges early on around there, and It's interesting to see how much they've changed since Canonically you could say that their slightly off appearance is because it's Cio that's telling the story and at this point I think she's only met 1 Demiurge if that.
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Apr 18, 2023 14:57
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they just change fits a lot, sometimes Jaggy has a beer gut sometimes he has 10,000 arms and faces
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Apr 18, 2023 15:38
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Neddy Seagoon posted:What's also interesting is Solomon David depicted with a sword, given he'd later be written as mastering a god-killing martial art and have no need of one. It's a ceremonial sword, because no one at a glance knows you can kill gods with a punch so you need symbols to remind people of why you're powerful.
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Apr 18, 2023 15:45
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The sword is for ceremonially opening letters that talk about how awesome he is.
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Apr 18, 2023 16:00
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Canonically you could say that their slightly off appearance is because it's Cio that's telling the story and at this point I think she's only met 1 Demiurge if that. You probably should, since he appears quite different next time he appears which is, what, three pages later, when Broken Chain talks about them
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Apr 18, 2023 16:29
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Precambrian posted:It's possible that this story is a lie, but also, I think Maya is more of a piece of poo poo demiurge than the wise mentor she presents herself as. I don't think she actually cared about her family, not the way Solomon David did, she cared about it in the way Incubus cares about things, that they were her way to "win" after Meti destroyed her. Meti schooled her about wasting her life, so Maya got a family not because she really loved them, but to prove that she could, that she hadn't been completely sword poisoned. She cares more about Incubus killing Meti because it's robbing her of the chance to get the last word. So in her warped mind, she sees that as the much, much bigger offense than killing a couple people she knew for a few years centuries ago. The page you are referring to is an edit, those words were never spoken by those characters. Pointing this out since it got a lot of people   The edit was too good! It tricked half the thread.
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Apr 18, 2023 16:34
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Thundarr posted:When your enemy is perfectly immune to violence, can be anywhere at any time, is probably way smarter than you and is definitely way more patient, and believes more powerfully in his cause than anybody else in any universe believes in theirs, using a technique that ignores invincibility is about all there is to try. That leaves Allison with the Superman: Red Son method, and Allison could also go on an adventure to find out what his mother looked like, then taunt him with her image until he breaks down emotionally and allows himself to be killed.
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Apr 18, 2023 16:41
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I wonder if it would be possible to confront Jaggs with the cyclical nature of his existence and be like "look, everything you have done is for nothing, worse than nothing in fact because it's your genocidal plan that leads to the reset and keeps us locked in an endless cycle of pain"
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Apr 18, 2023 16:43
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Precambrian posted:It's possible that this story is a lie, but also, I think Maya is more of a piece of poo poo demiurge than the wise mentor she presents herself as. I don't think she actually cared about her family, not the way Solomon David did, she cared about it in the way Incubus cares about things, that they were her way to "win" after Meti destroyed her. Meti schooled her about wasting her life, so Maya got a family not because she really loved them, but to prove that she could, that she hadn't been completely sword poisoned. She cares more about Incubus killing Meti because it's robbing her of the chance to get the last word. So in her warped mind, she sees that as the much, much bigger offense than killing a couple people she knew for a few years centuries ago. I think probably Maya doesn't really want to share her family tragedy with random hangers-on like Monkey, whereas now she felt comfortable enough with Alison to talk about it - or at least felt it was an important thing to tell her at that moment. Also, the conversation they (Monkey and Maya) were having was about Meti. I read it now as Maya also thinking in her head "...and killed my children and husband" but really didn't feel like baring her soul at that very moment. Hell, Monkey didn't even believe her when she said how old she is, and Maya immediately ended the conversation. She clearly didn't want to be talking about herself at all. But of course this thread is seriously talking about the possibility that this means she didn't like her family/husband or that Abaddon hosed up. It MIGHT be a retcon, sure, but if it is, I think the scene with Monkey still is 100% plausible. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 16:51
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yeah this line of thought seems like extremely overreading. she talked about the relevant thing to the conversation and did not proactively bring up an immense personal tragedy
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Apr 18, 2023 17:28
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Either that or sword law is a poison that turns men into ghosts and jerks into bigger jerks
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Apr 18, 2023 17:32
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I wonder if it would be possible to confront Jaggs with the cyclical nature of his existence and be like "look, everything you have done is for nothing, worse than nothing in fact because it's your genocidal plan that leads to the reset and keeps us locked in an endless cycle of pain" He literally talked about it in his big monologue and his reaction is "Yeah I'll loving do it again. Oh this loop is going way differently than before and there's the possibility of doing something new because of it? I'll just do what I did a million times before but even harder."
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Apr 18, 2023 17:33
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Saturnine Aberrance posted:The page you are referring to is an edit, those words were never spoken by those characters. Pointing this out since it got a lot of people I... know it's an edit? That's what the "could also be a mistake on Abaddon's part meant," that the reason the real page doesn't mention the family is that he hadn't decided on the "Maya had a family that Incubus killed" part yet when he wrote the page. There's a couple parts in the comic's run (like the current discussion of sword-wielding Solomon) where it's clear that the page was published before key plot points were decided on. Meti, I think, wasn't even supposed to be a comic character but someone like Musko Reeve who only showed up in the lore as the author of a book. My point is, the unedited scene is already about Maya not getting it. Meti's Sword Manual, a book written specifically for Maya covering a conversation Meti had with Maya, has Meti explicitly lay out that her body should be fed to the dogs when she dies because it doesn't matter what happens to her corpse. It's just too specific for me to not see it as meaningful. Maybe Maya didn't mention her family because it's a personal wound, but maybe it's because Maya's worldview is still entirely about power, and her relationship with her family was more like Solomon David's with his sons: a proof that she was still in control. Personally, I think this training arc is being set up to end a lot more like Allison's experiences with any other demiurge, that it's building more towards Allison telling her off like she did Mottom or White Chain telling off Solomon David.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:33
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I wonder if it would be possible to confront Jaggs with the cyclical nature of his existence and be like "look, everything you have done is for nothing, worse than nothing in fact because it's your genocidal plan that leads to the reset and keeps us locked in an endless cycle of pain" he's going to have to get confronted with the fact that his plan is dumb as poo poo and he's still just doing the job Metatron gave him sooner or later, either to reveal that there's more to it or to defuse him. I'm not totally clear at this point how much Allison actually knows about Metatron
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Apr 18, 2023 17:34
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Precambrian posted:but maybe it's because Maya's worldview is still entirely about power, and her relationship with her family was more like Solomon David's with his sons: a proof that she was still in control. Personally, I think this training arc is being set up to end a lot more like Allison's experiences with any other demiurge, that it's building more towards Allison telling her off like she did Mottom or White Chain telling off Solomon David. I'm not buying this. Maya's past actions (protecting the noodle vendor, protecting the children from Juggernaut Star) and the fact she's now a beggar knight show her to be someone who highly values protecting innocents over all else, including herself. She's surly, but she seems genuine. Is it so weird to believe Maya was truly seeking happiness when she found a husband and had children? I don't know why some of you can't accept that.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:42
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Maya criticizing her dead children instead of talking about how much she loves or misses them, especially that she was criticizing that they were too happy and loved her too much, is a great character moment for her.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:44
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Youremother posted:Maya criticizing her dead children instead of talking about how much she loves or misses them, especially that she was criticizing that they were too happy and loved her too much, is a great character moment for her. I'm not going to try to guess what Maya's deal is, but I'm like that when I'm talking about my late great-uncle. I dearly loved that old man, he was more of a grandparent to me than my actual grandparents are, but when I talk about him I usually bring up the little annoyances and weird quirks of his because anything else just bring up too much emotion and I just don't have the right words to talk about it.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:49
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do we know the manual was written specifically for maya, or really anything about it other than that it exists and some of its contents?
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Apr 18, 2023 17:54
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my dad posted:I'm not going to try to guess what Maya's deal is, but I'm like that when I'm talking about my late great-uncle. I dearly loved that old man, he was more of a grandparent to me than my actual grandparents are, but when I talk about him I usually bring up the little annoyances and weird quirks of his because anything else just bring up too much emotion and I just don't have the right words to talk about it. Yeah. She doesn't need to say she loved them, you can tell without the words. It's clearly an old wound - very calloused and scarred, but it runs deep. ThatBasqueGuy posted:do we know the manual was written specifically for maya, or really anything about it other than that it exists and some of its contents? Meti states herself in the manual she has only one apprentice, so yeah, it seems likely it was written just for her. It's also pretty short, I think we have the whole text. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 17:54
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Rotten Red Rod posted:But of course this thread is seriously talking about the possibility that this means she didn't like her family/husband calling it now: her husband was Oscar
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Apr 18, 2023 18:00
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Meti states herself in the manual she has only one apprentice, so yeah, it seems likely it was written just for her. To be fair, it could have just been a Yis/Un thing where she sees Dork Cloud and Pale Dolt as two halves of a single student. 
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Apr 18, 2023 18:00
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iirc the manual calls out her student as a girl. it’s getting harder to deny that incubus wasn’t a student, but a lesson
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Apr 18, 2023 18:02
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my dad posted:To be fair, it could have just been a Yis/Un thing where she sees Dork Cloud and Pale Dolt as two halves of a single student. Nah she's pretty clear: https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/ksbd-4-77/ 2. I am Meti, of no house but myself. In my 108th year I am surrounded by fools. My compatriots cling obsessively to their destiny, and my only apprentice is an idiot speck of a girl with more talent for eating than skill with the blade. Therefore I have decided to die drowning in the boiling gore of my enemies, of which there are many.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:06
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It's a pain in the rear end finding Sword Manual quotes, but it turns out I'm misremembering the quote in question.""Meti's Sword Manual" posted:3. My extreme hope is that some measure of wisdom will penetrate the thick skull of my apprentice. If not, may reading this manual demonstrate your powerful disinterest in it, and may its true value die with me. So she didn't write the book for Maya, but because she doubted the possibility that Maya understood anything of her teaching. The part I'm quoting (which I can't find where it was originally posted, because the wiki links to the wrong page?) makes it clear that her apprentice is a "she," so I have to assume it's Maya. Meti's Sword Manual posted:My student asked me what should be done about my body when I was inevitably torn apart by my enemies. My answer was simple: feed it to the dogs outside the walls of the city. She was horrified of course and protested loudly. 'Alright then' I said, 'Give me a stick to beat the dogs so they won't bother me.' 'But Master,' said my idiot student, 'You will be insensate.' 'Well if I'm insensate why do you give a flying gently caress what happens to my corpse.' I said, settling the matter But overall, "he slew my Master and I will forever despise him!" is just not... Meti. It's a weird scene made weirder by the context we now have about Maya and Incubus's history.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:22
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