|
Can anyone recommend a resource, organization, or thread that can help me educate myself on trans issues and rights? Today I am supportive of trans rights and try to never be deliberately transphobic after my relatively more bigoted youth, but I would say that, to the extent that there is one, I am inadequately informed about the consensus positions in the trans community about these hot button issues beyond the basics, and I am definitely not sufficiently educated on the reasons for these positions and the state of the research literature. That is to say, I understand that trans people should be able to compete in sports as their gender and fully support this, for example, but I do not have effective and evidence based rejoinders when scared old liberals in my neighborhood express transphobic concerns about sports, for example. Similarly, there's a lot of worry in the zeitgeist about possible negative consequences of gender affirming care for minors, particularly wrt surgical interventions, but other than a few statistics I'm not adequately educated on the full realities here. Some things I do know, or at least believe to be true (I am very much open to correction if I am wrong about anything in this post, of course), are: that breast augmentations for minors are both far more common and have far higher regret rates than any surgeries for trans youth; that regret rates for gender affirming care are lower than almost any other type of medical care; that the primary reason that detransitioners do actually detransition is social opprobrium and bigotry; that suicide risk is markedly high in trans youth and while the evidence is not absolutely settled yet it all points to the conclusion that gender affirming care reduces suicide risk, and that therefore the balance of harm calculus is far more in favor of gender affirming care than any alternative approach; that almost all of these hot button issues are basically vanishingly rare and inconsequential compared to issues that materially impact the lives of children in extraordinarily negative ways like gun violence or poverty, and the right's use of trans issues is a heady mix of their fundamental hatred of the other and their utility as a cudgel to divide liberal and left leaning voters rather than as anything approaching good faith effort to protect children from harm (which is actually somewhat of a priority for these left leaning elderly voters in my neighborhood, just behind keeping their property values high). The Human Rights Campaign has good surface level content and FAQs and works well for me to send to my neighbors - I guess I'm personally looking to go one step deeper and, ideally, get more citations.
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Call me crazy but I don’t think messaging bills consisting of “members of the opposing political party can’t do [x]” is a political winner. Florida literally tried to ban the democratic party.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:02
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:I’m talking about morality, not legality - you said abortion is never wrong, No they didn't. Please respond to things people actually type. quote:but there’s real and demonstrable harm being caused by the way it’s being selectively applied, right? is there? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
Zamujasa posted:it was more directed at people voting for the GOP than you, you just replied between the post i was replying to and i didn't quote it  Mellow Seas posted:Call me crazy but I don’t think messaging bills consisting of “members of the opposing political party can’t do [x]” is a political winner. Granted, anti-woke stuff is allegedly unpopular, it sure doesn't feel like it's stemming the tide of this bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:05
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:No they didn't. Please respond to things people actually type. Let me know what I got wrong about this post. Professor Beetus posted:Only if you think aborting fetuses is a moral wrong, which I don't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
volts5000 posted:Fox News is about to have less personality Dan Bongino apparently out as well... https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1649068957226115075?t=hcm9OF1P7ASv_H9VhspFTw&s=19 Looks like they're getting rid of the lower-performing chuds, so it's not like they'll can Tucker. Edit: looks like Bongino's contract wasn't renewed. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
volts5000 posted:Fox News is about to have less personality This entire "article" is one person guessing about what Fox might do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:16
|
|
|
Its good to be informed on Trans issue, but reading your post I feel like you are falling into the trap of thinking that if you can just explain the issue properly to someone and show them the right data then they will come around on the issue, which just doesn't happen in any significant way. Anti-trans bigotry has an emotional root, and if you show them evidence that it's not something they should be doing then they are just going to brush you off. The way to fight against anti-trans bigotry isn't by convincing bigots with studies, but supporting people who already understand the intrinsic value of all people. For everyone else the options really come down to ostracizing them, deplatforming them, and generally making them unable to put their hate into practice until they give up. Essentially the same way you handle every fascist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
Randalor posted:I'm honestly not even sure what DeSantis' endgoal even is right now. Hes picking a fight with his state's largest employer and using people who can't even be bothered to go to Disney's open meetings so they keep having "11th hour reveals" that were announced months prior, so I'm honestly curious what his chances of re-election are as Governor. He's too cowardly to actually announce he's running for president, and instead playing these "If I were going to run *wink*" games. Like, other than "to own the libs" and "piss off Florida's biggest employer", what is his actual endgame? I think he was hoping to get coronated by the party at large. I mean, one of the common descriptors for him was that he was "every bit as vile as Trump, but more willing to play along with the GOP establishment and not be a total loose cannon" , or, "the competent fascist" was a popular line. So he was probably hoping that by throwing enough red meat at the base with his Hunt Trans People for Sport bill and his attempts to force Disney to ban using any colors of the rainbow that it would give him enough support amongst the voters, and his "Not constantly being brought up on criminal charges" aspect would get him enough cred with the party apparatus to just sleepwalk on through. He just very obviously failed to stick the landing, but, I do think that was what he was trying to accomplish.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:22
|
|
|
pork never goes bad posted:Can anyone recommend a resource, organization, or thread that can help me educate myself on trans issues and rights? Unfortunatly how I learned about trans stuff is... knowing trans people, realizing I was trans myself, and reading books that mostly describe trans-ness from inside the community. I got all of those books from Amazon, but just searching "transgender" on there gets a very hit or miss between good poo poo ( Transgender History, second edition by Susan Stryker ) and absolute garbage ( so much "gender critical" bigtory! ) I did see a book called "Transgender 101: A Simple Guide to a Complex Issue" by Nicholas Teich who is trans and looks like not Werid about different kinds of trans people.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:24
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Despite Trump's best efforts, DeSantis seems intent on losing the 2024 primary in spectacular fashion. It's questionable how much of it is his own doing, but I wouldn't say he's failing this yet. So far the field is Trump and then a handful of absolute no-shots who wouldn't even have been contenders to make it past Iowa in a normal, non-Trump, cycle. Chris Christie announcing that he's testing the waters a few days ago is the only person who passes the level of running to maybe be the Secretary of Commerce. Even then, Christie is even less in the race than officially not officially a candidate Puddin' Ron. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:As DeSantis' star starts to fade a little, the Florida legislature is getting fed up with spending 100% of their time packing their schedule to pass legislation to help out his presidential campaign. Aside from everything they've done being terrible for everyone, this is promising news. It looks to mainly be trying to "quietly" get DeSantis to loving run already, while also hinting they don't want to get rid of the law that makes it so he has to resign first. So hats off to Disney. We may be looking at perhaps the first instance of multinational corporate legal skullduggery that is actually good. Because it's looking more and more like the original plan was for DeSantis to own Disney, then triumphantly officially announce his candidacy. Dick Trauma posted:Another Republican official has both been found guilty of being a horrible shitbag while also avoiding any accountability for his acts. I love how none of the Tennessee Republicans saw this inevitable reaction coming. Like, of all people, this dude should have had the basic, inherit danger sense tingling that personal bad things were coming if he started making a fuss about whether or not certain people should be in office.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
Phelddagrif posted:This entire "article" is one person guessing about what Fox might do. Well poo poo. Sorry about that. Saw several tweets and dropped my guard. At least Bongino’s out but isn’t he making bank on Facebook?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:Its good to be informed on Trans issue, but reading your post I feel like you are falling into the trap of thinking that if you can just explain the issue properly to someone and show them the right data then they will come around on the issue, which just doesn't happen in any significant way. Anti-trans bigotry has an emotional root, and if you show them evidence that it's not something they should be doing then they are just going to brush you off. I have seen issues like treatment for minors and trans people in sports where people who otherwise support trans rights can get convinced to support. I think these issues are heavily pushed because they have some measure of support so I don't think it would be unhelpful to have some way to combat these points.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:37
|
|
|
ignorant but well meaning old people can probably be reached but anyone screaming about groomers or litter boxes in schools is a lost cause
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:40
|
|
|
When it comes to sports it's as easy as pointing out the low single digit number of trans women taking part as is. Complete non-issue. You're digging into the weeds over a pool smaller then the cast of the movie Ladybugs. When it comes to the groomer accusations, ask them why said outrage is never aimed at say, Hooters which not only has a children's menu, but as I found out recently thanks to the child labor law kerfuffle, hires underaged girls.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:48
|
|
|
It really is a case by case basis and you have to be very thoughtful about if a person is worth arguing the facts with. The only reasonable thing you can do for someone who genuinely is not interested in the discussion beyond it being an argument is ignore them completely. You are not going to be the person who digs them out of their hole. And for god's sake avoid the urge to "dunk" on people, that is the worst possible thing anyone can do to make someone change their mind about a subject
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:49
|
|
|
volts5000 posted:Fox News is about to have less personality Note this is not saying they are actually getting fired, just some critic who predicts they will be fired.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:52
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:Its good to be informed on Trans issue, but reading your post I feel like you are falling into the trap of thinking that if you can just explain the issue properly to someone and show them the right data then they will come around on the issue, which just doesn't happen in any significant way. Anti-trans bigotry has an emotional root, and if you show them evidence that it's not something they should be doing then they are just going to brush you off. The way to deplatform anti-trans bigotry is to reach a critical mass of people who see it clearly as bigotry. Changing opinions is sometimes impossible, but on the other hand sometimes it is possible. It may all be emotionally rooted, but sometimes when you're talking to someone who trusts your opinion and when you seem knowledgeable, they will accept what you're saying at face value. That is to say, this does not happen on the internet, or with a complete stranger, but it does happen in real life. Source: It has happened in discussions I've had with people I know who respect me in real life. Being informed is helpful in the kind of real world conversations that will help push things in the right direction. I don't know how entrenched pork never goes bad's neighbors views are, or what kind of relationship they have to them, but I don't think it's necessarily a waste of time to be informative. I'm honestly also curious about what resources folks would recommend, as I don't think I'm much more informed myself, but have been in positions where I've had to explain this stuff to others, and I'd like to be as accurate as possible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:55
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:Its good to be informed on Trans issue, but reading your post I feel like you are falling into the trap of thinking that if you can just explain the issue properly to someone and show them the right data then they will come around on the issue, which just doesn't happen in any significant way. Anti-trans bigotry has an emotional root, and if you show them evidence that it's not something they should be doing then they are just going to brush you off. Other activists are way more informed than me but one of the ways you combat discrimination and untruths is to counter racist/transphobic/bigoted speech out loud. Not so much for the person you are arguing against but if there are other people around to make sure they realize there is another point of view out there. Similarly, calling someone a racist/transphone shuts down the conversation you can convince some people to see their views in a different way if you come from a place of saying how their actions are effecting other people. You won't convince everyone but it is doable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
Kalli posted:When it comes to sports it's as easy as pointing out the low single digit number of trans women taking part as is. Complete non-issue. You're digging into the weeds over a pool smaller then the cast of the movie Ladybugs. Personally I am completely not invested or even interested in female sports where the trans competitors are an issue, but I feel like that's a bad argument to use because realistically you're trying to convince parents who feel that it is unfair that their kids have to compete against "cheaters." It is a complete non-issue to me and you, but I guess some people do care, even if a lot of others are just performatively outraged. I think the underaged stuff isn't so much about grooming but denying minors from access to treatment because they aren't "ready." I agree if people are complaining about grooming they're probably too far gone to even engage with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
WarpedLichen posted:Personally I am completely not invested or even interested in female sports where the trans competitors are an issue, but I feel like that's a bad argument to use because realistically you're trying to convince parents who feel that it is unfair that their kids have to compete against "cheaters." It is a complete non-issue to me and you, but I guess some people do care, even if a lot of others are just performatively outraged. You are almost never going to actually be talking to a parent of even a hypothetically affected athlete. It's all either 10,000% disingenuous assholes who never have and never will give a single poo poo about women's sports in any capacity, or unrelated people who passingly heard about the issue and knee jerk agree that trans athletes have an unfair advantage. Most people think it's a widespread issue due to the media bombardment about it. So, generally, pointing out how it's actually not very common and then following up with simple reasoning to combat standard "unfairness" arguments is usually effective enough for most conversations. The main thing is just to realize whether you're talking with an entrenched anti-trans rear end in a top hat, or just someone who never actually gave the given issues any indepth thought.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
WarpedLichen posted:Personally I am completely not invested or even interested in female sports where the trans competitors are an issue, but I feel like that's a bad argument to use because realistically you're trying to convince parents who feel that it is unfair that their kids have to compete against "cheaters." It is a complete non-issue to me and you, but I guess some people do care, even if a lot of others are just performatively outraged. But that's the thing, the explanation is that it's a made up issue. You have to tie it to the same drummed up stories like the migrant caravans or MS-13 gunning everyone down in the suburbs if you flash your high beams at them at night or all those women getting 3rd trimester abortions for funsies.. There's so few actual examples you might as well just drill down to the specific one, because almost every other example is straight up fake Fwd: fwd: fwd stuff from the Daily Mail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
They also focus on women's sports because they inherently believe women to be weak flowers who need defending and I thought you wanted to defend women. Try reversing it and see the outrage is the same.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
I recall an article in Utah saying that there were only 2 known trans athletes in competition at the time that the state banned trans athletes. It's purely punching down because they think it will make their base happy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:16
|
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:They also focus on women's sports because they inherently believe women to be weak flowers who need defending and I thought you wanted to defend women. Try reversing it and see the outrage is the same. Yeah, and we already know how this goes. There's a number of examples of olympic caliber athletes being thrown out because of these rules like Caster Semenya. Because having high natural testosterone levels is an unfair physical advantage, unlike <waves hands at a photo of Michael Phelps> FlamingLiberal posted:I recall an article in Utah saying that there were only 2 known trans athletes in competition at the time that the state banned trans athletes. It's purely punching down because they think it will make their base happy. The Kansas one affected 3! Kalli fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Apr 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:18
|
|
|
Maybe I am naive, but I don't understand (beyond the obvious sexism/misogyny) why we would separate men's and women's sports. Could we have weight-based leagues?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:25
|
|
|
Youremother posted:It really is a case by case basis and you have to be very thoughtful about if a person is worth arguing the facts with. The only reasonable thing you can do for someone who genuinely is not interested in the discussion beyond it being an argument is ignore them completely. You are not going to be the person who digs them out of their hole. A couple weeks ago, a guy in a class I'm taking started saying some pretty transphobic things during a break. It started with him complaining that a job application asked him for his pronouns, and it quickly led to him saying that "I heard all the gays and lesbians don't want to sleep with trans people (he did not use this term), unless they're freaks who like kids". He had already said a lot of really lovely things before, so that was the last straw. I walked over to him, and I calmly and rationally explained why he was wrong, and I destroyed him with facts and logic. He was completely stunned into silence. And then everyone in the room stood up and clapped. ...which is what I wish I had done, of course. Instead I glared at him for a while (he didn't get the hint), and after class I talked with the instructor about it. At the time I honestly felt pretty cowardly, for not being able to stand up and defend the people I care about. But I ended up having a good conversation with the instructor (who said "That's just ignorant. Nobody's allowed to be ignorant in my class" and said he'd talk with him), and since then that guy has been significantly less lovely. So yeah, it wasn't immediately satisfying to me, and I almost certainly didn't change anyone's mind, but at least for now, in that class, nobody is spouting casual transphobia. I used the best tools at my disposal to make a difference, however small it might be. Now, on the other hand, if things had been different and I had about a dozen of my best friends with me, I might have chosen a different course of action. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:26
|
|
|
Gyges posted:You are almost never going to actually be talking to a parent of even a hypothetically affected athlete. It's all either 10,000% disingenuous assholes who never have and never will give a single poo poo about women's sports in any capacity, or unrelated people who passingly heard about the issue and knee jerk agree that trans athletes have an unfair advantage. remember the "uncle" from out of state that drove several hours to protect integrity of teen girl sports. apparently there's some weirdly strong legal magics here about how these things need to be open and public hearings , like they cant meaningfully restrict it to actual stakeholders which gets some astro turfing with someones dark money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:30
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Seems to work for Republicans. I also don't know that it's even "working" for them - they vastly underperformed the fundamentals in their last election. Oxyclean posted:I'm obviously also not really being serious. In my fantasy land it'd be nice if pointing out these sorts of things can go both ways was an effective strategy, but I kind of realize it's not. cr0y posted:Florida literally tried to ban the democratic party. And if we're talking about stunt legislation from a single state legislator, well, Dems do that all the time: Kentucky lawmaker takes aim at anti-abortion law with 'Viagra' bill Texas Legislator counters abortion bill with proposal to ban viagra (paywalled) Indiana lawmaker pushed ban on erectile dysfunction drugs during abortion debate S.C. legislator counters abortion bill with proposal to limit Viagra Iowa lawmaker proposes ‘Viagra’ bill to make a point, not to make a law Vasectomy Ban Bill Proposed by Democratic Lawmaker in Response to 'Heartbeat' Abortion Law Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:34
|
|
|
don longjohns posted:Maybe I am naive, but I don't understand (beyond the obvious sexism/misogyny) why we would separate men's and women's sports. Could we have weight-based leagues? Weight-based leagues make sense in some sports ( wrestling, for instance ) and other tradition would just take care of it ( men and women have no gymnastic events in common ). Then there's stuff like running, which has no non-miserable way to try to divide "men" and "women" without being bigoted, but in general people in the "men" class ran the distance much faster the people in the "women" class - the difference between the winner of the elite men's division of the Boston Marathon last weekend was 16 minutes faster than the elite woman's division. This year there was "non-binary" division for the first time though I can't really compare it to the above times as there was no "elite" class of the "non-binary" division.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Eh, I don't think Republicans are pushing anything on the level of "banning Democrats from poo poo," all of their stuff is targeted at specific out-groups. And identity-based bans are something that appeals to the Republican base. Maybe the left wing of the Democratic party would enjoy a GOP-ban stunt but it would turn off the “new base” of educated suburbanites, who used to lean Republican, and who do legitimately fear the party becoming too “extreme.” (And part of the reason that said educated suburbanites are going to the Democrats is because Republicans pull poo poo like this.) Didn't a Republican senstor in Florida try to pass a bill that would ban the Florida Democrat party?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 00:04
|
|
|
I mentioned that in my post…
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 00:08
|
|
|
James Garfield posted:An obvious issue is that people may answer "is it wrong to abort baby Einstein" and "should an 11 year old rape victim be forced to give birth" differently, and only the latter question is policy relevant. Einstein's Rape Baby seems to be the next logical step here
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
Baby Einstein is like a million times more likely to just end up in a low paying job anyway, with no time to think about physics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:11
|
|
|
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/04/19/uneasy-marijuana-industry-seeks-broader-trade-amid-vast-glut-2/ It seems that there's a huge glut of marijuana in the western states, enough that producers are going out of business. With it being illegal on the federal level, it can't be transported or sold out of state legally. Some are turning to smuggling and Mexican cartels are running illegal pot farms for that reason as well. "When legalization started in Oregon in 2015, a pound of cannabis might have gone for $3,000 wholesale; today, it might be $100 to $150, said Isaac Foster, co-founder of Portland Cannabis Market, a wholesale distributor." With the Biden administration not showing any inclination to allow for interstate sales, the future seems uncertain.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:19
|
|
|
Are they even able to do that without going through Congress?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:26
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Are they even able to do that without going through Congress? The executive branch has pretty much zero control over enforcement of marijuana policy, so no.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:28
|
|
|
TheDisreputableDog posted:Let me know what I got wrong about this post. I still don't. I think if it's the woman's decision, and she's not being coerced or pressured, then she deserves to have an abortion for whatever reason and frankly it's none of your loving business. You can make up all the scenarios in your head that you like, that's fine. It's a clump of cells, not a person, and I'm not going to pretend that it's anything more than a minor outpatient [s]surgical[/] procedure. It's not wrong. e: minor correction, it's not even a surgery Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Apr 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:30
|
|
|
Randalor posted:I'm honestly not even sure what DeSantis' endgoal even is right now. Hes picking a fight with his state's largest employer and using people who can't even be bothered to go to Disney's open meetings so they keep having "11th hour reveals" that were announced months prior, so I'm honestly curious what his chances of re-election are as Governor. He's too cowardly to actually announce he's running for president, and instead playing these "If I were going to run *wink*" games. Like, other than "to own the libs" and "piss off Florida's biggest employer", what is his actual endgame? Well, his goal was to run to Trump's right, but because he's essentially faking it (he started as a bog-standard neoconservative torturer) and is an antisocial dork who constantly tips off that he's never faced serious political opposition, people smell him coming and prefer the real thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 01:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
Wheeljack posted:https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/04/19/uneasy-marijuana-industry-seeks-broader-trade-amid-vast-glut-2/ Isn't banking (or lack thereof) one of the major challenges for any marijuana-related enterprise? Maybe it's been resolved by intrastate banks but I seem to remember a bunch of articles about how it was effectively a cash business since major banks wouldn't touch anyone involved due to federal regulations, and fear of scrutiny from the FDIC (or other banking regulators).
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2023 02:10
|
|
