War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Scratch Monkey posted:

I dunno� he was a bit quick with the sixers if he thought your post wasn�t Serious Enough for the thread which is silly for a supposed comedy forum

Yeah but he'd got better with this iteration of the thread.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 12:35

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 11:42

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

fez_machine posted:

No, this isn't what happened at all. You're conflating multiple separate things.

1. Cinci creates a quick spreadsheet using publicly available information of the most prolific posters in SAD in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4029808&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post531199458
2. Another person creates a list of posters that are the most prolific posters in SAD in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4029808&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post531210247 (They're perma-banned later in the thread for being a psycho and posting chatlogs that expose a poster's phone number)
3. Everyone brings up that list making is weird poo poo, however, none of the information is anything other than the name of the poster and the amount of posts they make in SAD
4. Someone else brings up that Cinci outed a previously doxxed user who now posts under a new name in the last feedback thread
5. Cinci's also been acting like a protagonist as evidenced by his flame out
6. Cinci hasn't directly doxxed anyone but is acting out and been cavalier with people's information which is enough to be demoded.

Good mod of this thread, but it got to his head is the final conclusion.

My final conclusion is that he stated some obvious things about QCS/SAD that have been going on for years but are some kind of major taboo to mention and must never be fixed, namely that every attempt at posting something constructive in there is immediately dogpiled by a group of 10-20 shitposting QCS regulars who may be alts of [redacted forum name] accounts or alts of [not gonna say that either] who then post white noise or other aggressive garbage that drives out any semblance of a constructive discussion.

He then apparently collected some data and made a list of some of these accounts, which broke some kind of rules that were made up on the spot.

Dysfunctionality in QCS 2.0 and the way this was handled.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 13:00

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

===NO MOD DRAMA PAST THIS POINT FIND ANOTHER PLACE FOR IT====

# ? Apr 21, 2023 13:04

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

e: dammit sorry deleted

# ? Apr 21, 2023 13:05

Paracausal: Sep 5, 2011; Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

"About 20 percent of recruits in Russian prisoner units are H.I.V. positive, Ukrainian authorities estimate based on infection rates in captured soldiers. Serving on the front lines seemed less risky than staying in prison, the detainees said in interviews with The New York Times"

Pretty loving wild situation these people have been put in.

‘A Quick Death or a Slow Death’: Prisoners Choose War to Get Lifesaving Drugs https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/...lX5LJbWHt7ElI2c

# ? Apr 21, 2023 13:36

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

A really insane music video by one of the most prominent Russian 'patriot' artists, SHAMAN, was released yesterday. It's called We.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXreSAXf1V8

quote:

In the sun blazing above us,
In the winds' proud flight

Our free land is with us
Forever

With hearts setting the day alight,
Our banner is rising

With us are Hope and Love
God is with us

'We' is what's eternal in our blood
And it's my generation
'We' is what's bound by the heaven alone

'We' will never be broken
Never live on our knees
'We' is the truth for the entire world, we are the 'we'

The heart was burning with words
The truth and the strength are with us

Proudly will withstand it all
Our nation

His breakaway hit was called I'm Russian, so it's not new, but his stage persona has now really evolved into, uhm, well, you can see for yourself. Hard to think that the date of the release wasn't chosen on purpose here. The sun in the meadow is summery warm and all that.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 14:28

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Well that's certainly not subtle. You'd think given the history of the Great Patriotic War he'd not be so kind to the backstabber who killed millions of his country's people, but then this is the country 'denazifying' Ukraine using the Wagner Group.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 14:33

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

WaPo got their hands on some interesting documents, surprisingly not from the Discord leak.

quote:

Kremlin tried to forge an antiwar coalition of the far left and far right in Germany to hinder support for Ukraine, documents show

The Post reviewed documents obtained by a European intelligence service that recorded Kremlin officials ordering Russian political operatives to focus on Germany to build antiwar sentiment in Europe and dampen support for Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/04/21/germany-russia-interference-afd-wagenknecht/

quote:

The documents � details of which were broadly corroborated by officials in Western governments � show for the first time the Kremlin�s direct attempts to interfere in German politics by seeking to forge a new coalition among Wagenknecht, the far left and the AfD, as well as to support protests by extremists on the left and right against the German government.

The aim of a new political formation, according to a document dated Sept. 9, would be to win �a majority in elections at any level� in Germany and reset the AfD to boost its standing beyond the 13 percent the party was polling at then. The reset, laid out among the documents in a proposed manifesto for the AfD that was written by Kremlin political strategists, includes forging the AfD into the party of �German unity� and declaring sanctions on Russia as counter to German interests.

quote:

Wagenknecht, 53, is a former Communist who grew up in East Germany and has clashed several times with the more traditional leadership of Die Linke, including over her populist stance against unauthorized immigration and her claims that the party was too focused on left-wing academic elites, not the working class.

Opinion polls show that her popularity is growing nationally and she is openly mulling forming a new party.

quote:

The AfD � called the party of �Putin understanders� by some in Germany � has echoed the Kremlin�s view that the war in Ukraine was triggered by the United States and that Russia was simply defending itself from NATO encirclement while protecting Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine. Moscow has long cultivated dozens of AfD members, especially through lavish, all-expenses-paid trips to Russia, documents and interviews show.

It is not clear from the documents how the political strategists working with the Kremlin attempted to communicate with members of the AfD or other potential German allies about Moscow�s plans. But soon after the Kremlin gave the order for a union to be forged between Wagenknecht and the far right, AfD deputies began speaking in support of her in parliament and party members chanted her name at rallies. Bj�rn H�cke, chairman of the AfD in Th�ringen in eastern Germany, publicly invited her to join the party.

Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 21, 2023

# ? Apr 21, 2023 16:20

WarpedLichen: Aug 14, 2008

I guess one explanation for Russia bombing its own city is that the bomb's gliding wings failed to work?

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1649344016209649667?cxt=HHwWhoC96Zzp0uMtAAAA

# ? Apr 21, 2023 16:59

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Calling it a coalition between far left and far right is a bit weird, considering that the Wagenknecht wing is firmly to the right of the party. I remember a recent press conference where the party leadership was openly contemptuous of her. That conflict long predates the war, too.

Zarenknecht became more popular with the Nazi party after she brought up right wing culture war topics several times, i.e. when she started spouting AfD talking points. You don't need to a grand conspiracy there, they like her because she says what they say, and they like Russia because they are fascists who hold the same values.

e: RIF in Frieden, cinci; they hated you because you told the truth.

Antigravitas fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Apr 21, 2023

# ? Apr 21, 2023 17:07

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

When I think "far left" I think of anti immigration stances like notable left wing leader Donald j Trump.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 17:15

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Cpt_Obvious posted:

When I think "far left" I think of anti immigration stances like notable left wing leader Donald j Trump.

Ah, I see you belong to the UK Labour party.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 17:38

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

Yeah the deeper I get into this article the more hyperbolic the headline and lede seem.

quote:

One of the individuals in contact with Russian officials was Ralph Niemeyer, Wagenknecht�s ex-husband. He told The Post that he was still in near-daily communication with Wagenknecht and that during recent meetings with top-level Kremlin officials in Moscow it was clear to him that �there are certain people in Russia who have [an] interest� in a union between Wagenknecht and the far right.

�I know from private talks with these people that they are aware of the potential that this would have,� said Niemeyer, whose house was raided in late March as part of a criminal investigation over his alleged involvement in a plot by the ultra-right Reichsb�rger movement to overthrow the German government � allegations that Niemeyer denies.

So she's a member of the left-wing party but her ex-husband and still-current confidant is one of those German equivalent of a Sovereign Citizen?

quote:

In early July, Putin declared that �even in the countries that are still satellites of the United States, there is a growing understanding that their ruling elites� blind obedience to their overlord, as a rule, does not necessarily coincide with their national interests, and most often simply and even radically contradicts them.�

Days later, Kiriyenko summoned the political strategists to the Kremlin, and they began to try to exploit the perceived contradiction identified by Putin, the documents show. The political strategists had been told at the meeting with Kiriyenko that their main target was Germany, where they were to discredit the European Union, the United States, Britain and NATO while convincing Germans they were being harmed by the sanctions imposed on Russia, one of the documents dated July 13 shows. The share of the German population in favor of improving relations with Russia, Kiriyenko demanded, was to be boosted by 10 percent within a three-month time frame, a later document shows.

The Russian political strategists rued the difficulty of their task. �This is going to be complicated,� one of them noted. They immediately scrambled to work with Russian troll farms to pump out slogans for German social media platforms and protests � �Buy gas, not war� and �Ukraine wants war, Germany want peace.� Preparing slogans for protests over soaring energy costs formed another part of the strategy, according to the documents, though that issue failed to get much traction because of a mild winter in Europe and the German government�s ability to diversify energy supplies.

The campaign even extended to graffiti to be painted on walls across Germany and then photographed and placed in the German press, the documents show. These included a drawing of a fat �Uncle Sam� saying, �Bear it a few more years.� Another depicted German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock sitting on the Nord Stream natural gas pipeline connecting Russia and Germany, waving a Ukrainian flag and saying, �I don�t care what the Germans think.� It is unclear whether any of this graffiti appeared.

Sounds like a real elite operation they had running there.

Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Apr 21, 2023

# ? Apr 21, 2023 17:48

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Niemeyer is the head of the government in exile.

(Note that date)

I had assumed that Wagenknecht was strictly No Contact with him, but it would be very on brand for her to still associate with him.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 18:18

Ogmius815: Aug 25, 2005; centrism is a hell of a drug

Antigravitas posted:

Niemeyer is the head of the government in exile.

(Note that date)

I had assumed that Wagenknecht was strictly No Contact with him, but it would be very on brand for her to still associate with him.

What is this insanity?

# ? Apr 21, 2023 18:59

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

From one government in exile to another SMDH.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 19:18

DarklyDreaming: Apr 4, 2009; Fun scary

Ogmius815 posted:

What is this insanity?

*Loud bong hit*

Ok so Nazi Germany never formally dissolved (Because all the higher ups died and the head of the Navy oversaw the surrender to the allies) which means that it still exists on paper and is the more legitimate government of Germany because reasons, this man is claiming to represent the government of Real Germany, not Fake Germany that is currently in charge

# ? Apr 21, 2023 19:50

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Sorry about continuing this derail but I'm curios why this guy thinks he would be the head of said government? Although I did read his German wiki page translated to English and he has been convicted of fraud a bunch of times so I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 19:52

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Moon Slayer posted:

Sounds like a real elite operation they had running there.

Towards the start of the war, I noticed a London-wide graffiti campaign that scrawled 'Zelensky is a terrorist' on bus stops in all sorts of places. I immediately assumed it was some extremely stupid Russian funded propaganda on the cheap.

Same style, same message, same location across a really wide radius. Funny stuff.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 19:58

enigma74: Aug 5, 2005; a lean lobster who probably doesn't even taste good.

Scratch Monkey posted:

I dunno� he was a bit quick with the sixers if he thought your post wasn�t Serious Enough for the thread which is silly for a supposed comedy forum

D&D has never been focused on the lulz, so that's an unfair assessment. There's the GBS and VFW threads for unserious posting. If anything, I think there weren't enough sixers, or the sixers could have been longer for obvious repeat shiposters.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:05

enigma74: Aug 5, 2005; a lean lobster who probably doesn't even taste good.

Popete posted:

Sorry about continuing this derail but I'm curios why this guy thinks he would be the head of said government? Although I did read his German wiki page translated to English and he has been convicted of fraud a bunch of times so I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

He's probably just a rallying point for people dissatisfied with german government and/or society. Maybe not a serious attempt at destabilizing Germany, but for Russia, they may be thinking that they miss 100% of the shots they don't take, so might as well. He has no legitimacy, no popular mandate, or even divine right to rule.

Something like the American right thinking Biden isnt the "real" president because the election was "stolen".

enigma74 fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 21, 2023

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:11

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Governments carry around idiots like that all the time. Russia doesn't actually believe he has any legitimacy, but its a way to challenge the legitimacy of a rival state. What makes it so funny is that he claims to be the head of regime that attempted to exterminate Russia.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:14

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

Ogmius815 posted:

What is this insanity?

You won't be very wrong if you think of them as the equivalents of SovCits.

DarklyDreaming posted:

*Loud bong hit*

Ok so Nazi Germany never formally dissolved (Because all the higher ups died and the head of the Navy oversaw the surrender to the allies) which means that it still exists on paper and is the more legitimate government of Germany because reasons, this man is claiming to represent the government of Real Germany, not Fake Germany that is currently in charge

And the funny part is that there is an entirely separate set of nutcases who think that the government of the German Empire, that is, pre-ww1 Germany, never properly dissolved and that they are the legitimate heirs of that government.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:16

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Popete posted:

Sorry about continuing this derail but I'm curios why this guy thinks he would be the head of said government? Although I did read his German wiki page translated to English and he has been convicted of fraud a bunch of times so I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

There are several competing Kaisers (because neither the Nazis nor the Federal Republic are legitimate).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement

There are handbooks for public servants on how to deal with them:

(this is a real book, and the real cover)

And to bring this back to Russia: These people are generally against the current government, they typically hold far-right ideology, and they are quite receptive to basically any right wing conspiracy theory under the sun: ZOG, Germany being occupied by the USA, not having to pay taxes, Soros being evil, that the DE part of your IBAN actually stands for DELAWARE, held hostage by the Greens and so on and so forth. "Russia fights the New World Order" is just a small tidbit that slotted neatly into their Weltbild.

And I should be clear here, most of their ideas are home grown or pushed by US demagogues, Russia just positioned itself as a right-wing protector of "Judeo-Christian Values" and whatnot.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:21

Draadnagel: Jul 16, 2011; ..zoekend naar draadnagels bij laag tij.

Those arguments are everywhere. Here in the Netherlands they argue that the government dissolved during WW2 because the government fled to the UK and held sessions abroad (which our constitution doesn't allow). Since the government dissolved there could be no more elections held and therefor the Netherlands ceased to be. And that's why, your honor, I can't be fined for parking in a no-parking zone.

It has sovereign citizen written all over it.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:24

bad_fmr: Nov 28, 2007

Scratch Monkey posted:

I dunno… he was a bit quick with the sixers if he thought your post wasn’t Serious Enough for the thread which is silly for a supposed comedy forum

When this whole ugly business started more than a year ago this style of moderation was absolutely required to keep this thread in any way readable and informative. So much was happening and also posting battles raged across the forums battlefields. Also it has been great that this thread has had moderation from Eastern Europe (and now also Russia) to help illuminating the non-US points of view. Now that things seemed to have slowed down Im not sure if such martial law was required however.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:36

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

In Finland two twin brothers and one of theirs fiancee, all three who were candidates in this spring's parliamentary elections, are being suspected of treason. The reason for treason was that they believe Finland is being invaded through underground tunnels and to prove this they have been recording videos around army bases and depots and posting them online.

All of this is so marginal of marginal that it didn't make any headlines during the elections, only afterwards when they were indicted. Of course they are educated people, :brainworms:

does not occur on normal idiots.
//conspiracychat

# ? Apr 21, 2023 20:48

Slashrat: Jun 6, 2011; YOSPOS

All that effort and they didn't even catch wind of the subterranean lizardfolk civilization.

Is there reason to believe they were deliberately passing info along to a foreign power, or is the treason stuff just hyperbole and they are looking at charges for trespassing or something in that league?

# ? Apr 21, 2023 21:50

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Slashrat posted:

All that effort and they didn't even catch wind of the subterranean lizardfolk civilization.

Is there reason to believe they were deliberately passing info along to a foreign power, or is the treason stuff just hyperbole and they are looking at charges for trespassing or something in that league?

Treason in Finnish criminal code covers a bunch of offenses, in this case it's "revelation of security secret" which has no intent of aiding a foreign power. So it might be something like walking past a "don't walk past this sign" sign and posting videos. It's absolutely possible that the charges are overblown, but it's hard to tell because official sources are :ssh:

and unofficial sources are :freep:

One of the brothers is a 1st lieutenant trained as intelligence officer according to media, so they presumably should have known the limits.

Sorry about this derail, if you have further questions about crazy Finnish conspiracy theorists then you can come to the Finnish politics thread, or PM me.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 22:04

Small White Dragon: Nov 23, 2007; No relation.

Paracausal posted:

"About 20 percent of recruits in Russian prisoner units are H.I.V. positive, Ukrainian authorities estimate based on infection rates in captured soldiers. Serving on the front lines seemed less risky than staying in prison, the detainees said in interviews with The New York Times"

Is HIV that prevalent in Russia, is this just them jailing a bunch of LGB folk, or what?

# ? Apr 21, 2023 22:11

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

It's probably going to be injecting drug users. Russia has a big opioid problem and a bad way of dealing with it.

Draadnagel posted:

Those arguments are everywhere. Here in the Netherlands they argue that the government dissolved during WW2 because the government fled to the UK and held sessions abroad (which our constitution doesn't allow). Since the government dissolved there could be no more elections held and therefor the Netherlands ceased to be. And that's why, your honor, I can't be fined for parking in a no-parking zone.

It has sovereign citizen written all over it.

Ah, but what they, a basic tinfoil idiot, fail to realize is that when Willem III van Oranje conquered England in 1689, the UK became legally part of the Netherlands, so therefore there were no sessions abroad and they still have to pay their parking fine.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 22:24

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Small White Dragon posted:

Is HIV that prevalent in Russia, is this just them jailing a bunch of LGB folk, or what?

Reusing drug needles is a common way for the virus to spread. Unprotected prostitution is another big source. Drug abuse and prostitution unfortunately go well hand in hand. HIV used to have homosexual stigma but these days I think it's outdated and it's not a minority virus anymore. In prison environment homosexual intercourse is perhaps more common, but it's not always consensual...

Nevertheless that's what Ukrainian government sources say, we don't know how accurate it is. If it's correct then that's horrible. Or maybe people who have the virus are more likely to survive and get captured?

# ? Apr 21, 2023 22:40

sube: Nov 7, 2022

Antigravitas posted:

I had assumed that Wagenknecht was strictly No Contact with him, but it would be very on brand for her to still associate with him.

Fwiw, any claims on contact has been just what he has said to my knowledge. So unsure how serious I'd treat it, and what type of contact it even is. But yeah he's very cooky.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 23:30

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Small White Dragon posted:

Is HIV that prevalent in Russia, is this just them jailing a bunch of LGB folk, or what?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 21, 2023 23:40

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

SECDEF and CJCS did a press conference following the latest Ukraine Contact Group meeting.
https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...-chiefs-of-sta/

Highlights, then intro and excerpts as I choose.

-US feels ground-based air defense (GBAD) more important than fighter jets right now (in response to question about supplying fighters)
-GBAD is a critical effort presently to protect critical and civil infrastructure from Russian aerial attack (My note: It has, as of this post writing, been an unusually long time since Russia launched a cruise missile attack using their bomber forces or navy. Since last fall, they have generally conducted 1-2 cruise missile attacks per month. It has been well over a month since Russia conduted a coordinated cruise missile attack.)
-2,500 Ukrainian troops training in Germany on combined arms now
-8,800 have completed training and returned to Ukraine
-Abrams training will begin in a few weeks (but the delivery is still something like months away)
-Multiple armor brigades* are trained and equipped for whatever task they may receive (US is being careful not to state when/if/where any offensive may or may not occur. Armored units can also prove vital to turning the tables in a defense).

quote:

STAFF: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for being here today. It is my pleasure to introduce Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin III, and chairman of the Joint Chiefs Staff, General Mark Milley. The secretary and the chairman will deliver opening remarks, and then we'll have some time to take a few questions. Please note that I will moderate those questions and call on journalists. Due to time constraints, I would ask those I call on to limit their follow-up questions to give your colleagues a chance to ask their questions, and I appreciate your assistance with this.

With that, Secretary Austin?

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE LLOYD J. AUSTIN III: Thanks, Patrick.

And good afternoon, everyone. Nearly one year ago, I first convened what became the Ukraine Defense Contact Group right here at Ramstein. Our goal was to improve the coordination of our support for Ukraine as it fought back against Russia's reckless and lawless invasion.

Over the past year, this Contact Group has become an extraordinary community of action, and together, we have rallied to defend the principles of democracy and freedom and sovereignty. So we're all back here at Ramstein a year later to build on that impressive progress.

Over the past year, the members of this Contact Group have provided tremendous capability to Ukraine. Right after Russia invaded, we surged in Javelins and Stingers, and then we provided Ukraine's defenders with howitzers and HIMARS and other artillery, and we continue to rush in ground-based air defense capabilities and munitions to help Ukraine control its sovereign skies and to help Ukraine defend its citizens from Russian cruise missiles and Iranian drones.

Our collective efforts have made a huge difference on the battlefield, and now, in just a few short months, the Contact Group has delivered more than 230 tanks, more than 1,550 armored vehicles and other equipment and munitions to support more than nine new armored brigades. We've also expedited our M1 Abrams timelines to supply Ukraine with more armored capability in the coming months, and the M1s that the Ukrainians will use for training will arrive here in Germany in the next few weeks. And all of this is huge progress, and I am confident that this equipment and the training that accompanied it � it will put Ukraine's forces in a position to continue to succeed on the battlefield.

Ukraine forces have formidable capability and courage, as we have seen throughout, and all of this progress rests on the coordinated work of some-50 nations of goodwill that have gathered again today.

Now, let me say just a few words about the reports of unauthorized disclosure of sensitive and classified U.S. material. I take this matter extremely seriously, and we will continue to work closely and � with our deeply-valued allies and partners in a spirit of abiding respect and friendship. As I have discussed this issue with our allies and partners, I've been struck by their solidarity and their commitment to reject efforts to divide us, so nothing will fracture our unity or reduce our determination.

Now, I'm grateful to my good friend Oleksii Reznikov for joining us at Ramstein, and he once again gave us all a first-hand account of the battlefield dynamics, highlighting Ukraine's most urgent needs in the critical months ahead.

We also heard from my colleagues in U.S. European Command about the progress on building Ukraine's combat power as Ukraine prepares to push back the lines of Russian invade � invaders, and we talked about key enablers that will help Ukraine repel Russian forces such as heavy equipment and transport vehicles and refuelers and mine rollers. And I'd like to thank those here who announced donations of these important systems, including Germany and the Netherlands. We also discussed ways to intensify our sustainment in industrial base initiatives.

Now, Russia has continued its assault on civilian targets in Ukraine, including schools and theaters and apartment buildings, and those targets have absolutely no military value whatsoever. So we're helping Ukraine defend its citizens and its skies against Russian missiles and Iranian drones.

Now, many Contact Group members have stepped up with new air defense systems and critically-needed ammunition for those systems, and we're going to stay focused on the key capabilities that Ukraine needs right now, as well as in the medium term.

Now, we also heard today from the European Union on its proposal to speed up the production and delivery of ammunition for Ukraine, and more countries are thinking about how they can increase industrial production not just for the near term, but also for the medium term and the long term, and that is a powerful reminder that we stand with Ukraine's defenders for the long haul.

You know, Putin made a series of grave miscalculations when he ordered the invasion of Ukraine more than a year ago. He thought that Ukraine wouldn't dare to fight back, but Ukraine is standing strong with the help of its partners. Putin thought that our unity would fracture, but Russia's cruel war of choice has only brought us closer together. And I'd note that Finland, which has long taken part in this contact group, is here today as a new NATO ally. I expect that Sweden will soon follow, and that makes something crystal clear � Putin's war of choice is not the result of NATO enlargement, Putin's war is the cause of NATO's enlargement.

You know, when I first convened this contact group, I saw nations of goodwill that were eager to help Ukraine resist Russia's imperial aggression, I saw a coalition that stood united and firm, I saw countries determined to stand up for an open and secure world of rights and rules, and all of that was just as true at Ramstein today as it was a year ago.

The Ukrainians are still standing strong in their fight for their freedom and they have the courage and the capability for the road ahead and we will have their backs for as long as it takes.

And so with that, I'll turn it over to the Chairman.

GENERAL MARK A. MILLEY: Thank you, Secretary, and I want to start off by thanking Secretary Austin for his leadership over the past year in this 11th Ukrainian Defense Contact Group, which has resulted in enormous support to Ukraine, not only from the countries of Europe but really from the globe, and it really wouldn't be happening without Secretary Austin's leadership. So thank you, sir.

And thanks also to the ministers and chiefs of defense from over 50 countries that attended today and have consistently attended now for a year, and their participation and support is critical to the capability of the Ukrainian military to defend itself.

It's been nearly a year since Secretary Austin began this contact group right here at Ramstein and this forum has been vital to coordinate and synchronize the support, continued international support, to Ukraine.

I also want to thank Ukrainian Minister of Defense Reznikov and � and my colleague and partner, Chief of Defense General Zaluzhnyi, whom I've had a chance to contact in the last week or so, and his representative here, General Moisuk, for their continued leadership. I also congratulate Finland on their accession into NATO. This historic event marks a deepening of the NATO alliance and reaffirms to the world the strength of this relationship.

But this is not just about the United States and European security. NATO and this contact group helped to uphold something bigger than that. They uphold the global international order, where all nations can live in peace and can prosper, a world that respects sovereignty and the rule of law, a world that counters unbridled military aggression.

421 days ago, Putin thought he could overthrow the Ukrainian government, thought he could fracture NATO as he launched an unprovoked war of aggression, with hundreds of thousands of Russian forces crossing the border on multiple avenues of approach. He was wrong. Ukraine's spirit remains unbroken.

There are now 31 members of NATO and NATO is even stronger and united in the face of Russia's aggression and its attack on the rules-based order. The United States and the members of this contact group remain committed to supporting Ukraine as it fights for freedom against Russia's illegal and unprovoked invasion.

To date, the United States has committed more than $35 billion in military assistance, including over two million tank and artillery rounds, tens of thousands of anti-armor weapons systems, air defense systems, and other forms of munitions, hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles, precision aerial munitions and counter-UAS capabilities.

In addition, there's about 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers conducting training right now in Germany. Another 8,800, almost 9,000 have completed training and have returned to Ukraine. And there are 65 Ukrainians that completed training on Patriot missile systems just recently.

Since the early phases of this war and for every month since, the United States has provided Ukraine with the capabilities to defend itself, and in conjunction with our allies and partners, we have delivered. This coalition will continue to provide vital training and additional capabilities for air defense and maneuver to enable Ukraine's ongoing fight.

Air defense munitions, air defense capabilities, tank munitions, armored vehicle capabilities, artillery ammunition, artillery tubes androckets, and spare parts remain critical as Ukraine protects its cities and expels the Russian menace from its territory.

Our countries and the countries of Europe have pledged that Ukraine will have the capabilities it needs to execute their missions on their own timeline and we have pledged that support for as long as it takes, as the Secretary just said. This week, the United States announced our latest security assistance package as part of our ongoing commitment to Ukraine.

As we stand here today, the Ukrainian military continues to perform very well. Intense fighting in and around Bakhmut continues and has for several months. Russia is expending significant manpower for very little gain. Russia is intensifying indiscriminate shelling in Avdiivka and other cities and urban areas. And Russia continues to pay severely for its war of choice.

Unlike the Ukrainian forces who are highly motivated to fight for their country, to fight for their freedom, their democracy and their way of life, the Russians lack in leadership, they lack will, the morale is poor, and their discipline is eroding.

Russia has resorted to tightening conscription laws as they indiscriminately feed their citizens into the chaos of war, and so far, they've been quite ineffective in their coordination or direction of combined arms maneuver on the battlefield.

Over the past year, Russia's temporary territorial gains have come with enormous losses. Hundreds of thousands of Russians have fled their country, in addition to the casualties. They are trying to avoid fighting in Putin's war.

Russia continues to fail in achieving its strategic objectives. They failed to seize Kyiv, they failed to topple the Ukrainian government, and they failed to fracture NATO. In fact, they've done just the opposite. Kyiv stands, the people of Ukraine are emboldened, and NATO has never been stronger.

As President Biden and Secretary Austin have repeatedly said, the United States remains committed for as long as it takes.

Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

STAFF: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you, Chairman. Our first question will go to Rachel Cohen, Defense News.

Q: Hi, thank you for doing this. I have one question for each of you. Mr. Chairman, we know from the recent leaks that the Pentagon was bullish on Ukraine's chances of retaking much territory in the spring counter-offensive. Is that still your assessment now or what has changed? And are you concerned that spring conditions on the ground will slow things down?

And then for Secretary Austin, looking at the current crisis in Sudan, what lessons learned from the Afghanistan evacuation are shaping your efforts to prepare to get U.S. embassy staff out of Sudan? And has the State Department asked you to begin that process?

GEN. MILLEY: Well, let me � let me start by saying that I'm not going to comment on future operations specifically or any of the substance that's in any of these leaks that are out there.

But I will say that our task and our commitment to Ukraine was to provide the � the training and the equipment for up to nine brigades, armored brigades, armored mech brigades to conduct either offensive or defensive operations. Those brigades are trained, they're manned and they're equipped, and they are prepared for combat operations. So whenever and wherever Ukraine chooses to use them, we will continue that support, and I am very confident in those units' ability to succeed.

...

Q: My question is going to � to � to both, calling fighter jets. Ukraine said that they need more fighter jets. Poland has just delivered MiGs. Did you talk about fighter jets? And how helpful could they be for Ukraine?

SEC. AUSTIN: Right now, what � what we all believe is what Ukraine needs most urgently is ground-based air defense capability. That is what has enabled them to prevent the Russian air forces from having a meaning �meaningful impact in this fight. And so you've heard us say that for the last several months. We will continue to say that because that is what is � is � is most important in the current � in the future of fight, the immediate future. We have to make sure that the � the Ukrainians have the ability to protect their infrastructure, protect their citizens, but also protect troops that the troops are maneuvering. So we � we continue to engage our partners and � and � and allies and � and emphasize that we need to do everything we can to ensure that Ukraine has adequate air defense � ground-based air defense capability.

And I have to applaud the � the work that our partners are doing. Where possible, they're stepping up to the plate. I believe that � that we can still do more, and I'm asking them to do more, and I believe that they will respond, so �

STAFF: Okay, our next question will go to Will Dunlop, Agence France-Presse.

Q: Thank you.

Secretary Austin, are Contact Group members working to speed up deliveries of military supplies, especially key items such as artillery rounds, ahead of Ukraine's counteroffensive? And does Ukraine have the items it needs for that offensive?

And Chairman Milley, do you think the Abrams tanks will have a significant impact once they arrive on the battlefield in Ukraine? The U.S. has previously expressed concerns about logistics and sustainment for the tanks. Have those concerns been sufficiently addressed? Thank you.

...

GEN. MILLEY: So on the M1 tank, you know, I'm biased, but I think the M1 tank's the best tank in the world. There are other tanks that are quite good. Leopards, for example, are being provided, as well. But I do think the M1 tank, when it is delivered, will make a difference.

Now, let me distinguish between � in a couple of weeks you're going to get training tanks � those aren't quite combat-capable � and they'll be used to train the crews on how to shoot, maneuver and maintain these tanks, and that'll be part of the sustainment package to get them trained up as the other tanks are � are � are being refurbished in order for � to accelerate their delivery. But when they do get here and those crews are trained and they're used in a combined-arms maneuver tactic in combination with mech infantry, the Bradleys, they'll be very effective.

But I would also caution, there's no silver bullet in war. It's a � it's a � war is � the outcomes of battles and wars are the function of many, many variables. And in this case, you � you would have to make sure that your tanks are used in combined arms with mechanized infantry, artillery, all of that is synchronized with dismounted forces, et cetera. So there is no silver bullet in this case, but I do think the M1 tank, when it's delivered and it reaches its operational capability, that it will be very effective on the battlefield.

STAFF: Thank you. And our last question will go to Anne-Claire Coudray, TF1.

Q: Thank you. One question for Secretary Lloyd Austin. Do you really believe in a (inaudible) counter-offensive? Because here today, we mainly hear about sustainability and long-term aid, and if this counteroffensive doesn't lead to Ukrainian victory quickly, do you think that the Biden administration will still have the support of the American people to continue to help Ukraine?

And if I have the time, one quick question to General Miley (sic). You have been asked about jets, but is there any chance that the United States change their mind about the delivery of F-16? Thank you.

SEC. AUSTIN: So, (Clair ?), your question is whether or not we can expect to have � continue to have support for Ukraine. Well, we � we've enjoyed strong support from the American people throughout for � for this� this effort, this campaign, and that support has enabled the Ukrainians to be as successful as they have been on the battlefield. I have to credit the Ukrainians for their will to fight, for the ingenuity, for their professionalism, for their leadership. But even when you have all of that, you can't get it done unless you have the right gear and � and the � and � and you are able to sustain your efforts. And so we've worked together to help create the dynamics that we've seen thus far...

...

GEN. MILLEY: So on the F-16 or any other fourth generation aircraft from any other country, I would � you know, first of all, those are policy questions that'll be made by political leaders, but from a military perspective, the task is to control the airspace.

How you control that airspace can be done in many, many different ways. The most cost effective, efficient and � way to do that right now for Ukraine and the fastest way to do that for Ukraine is through air defense. They've been doing it for over a year now.

They've been denying the airspace to effective Russian use. The Russians have been flying some sorties in Ukraine but limited amounts of sorties over Russian-occupied Ukraine. They have � Russians have not done battlefield air interdiction deep into Ukraine territory, except through missiles and rockets that have been fired from over Russian territory.

Why is that done by the Russians? Because the Ukrainians are shooting Russian aircraft down. So the Russians are cautious to come into Ukraine because of the effective use of the Ukrainian air defense system. That is the most critical thing right now, is that air defense system, to make sure that it is robust, it's rigorous, it's deep, and it's layered from high altitude to mid altitude to low altitude and from short range, mid range to long range. And the front line forces � the Ukrainian front line forces need to be protected.

That's the most important, critical military task right now. That was the theme of this entire day, was air defense, air defense, air defense, to make sure that Ukraine can defend its airspace.

In terms of the aircraft themselves, there's a long lead time for � for training of pilots, et cetera, and the Russians have a significant amount of air power. And to take the Ukrainian Air Force from where it is today and to build it up to match the Russian Air Force, that's a significant level of effort by lots of countries, and those policy choices may or may not be made down the road and we'll see where that goes.

But right now, the immediate need is air defense.

*a note on brigades. US brigade combat teams are pretty large and heavy, and it does not sound like the Ukrainian brigades are approaching that size. Some of the examples in past interviews have referred to a brigade size of around 2,000 troops. In contrast, in the US, an armored brigade combat team is just over 4,000 troops. Styker and Infantry brigade combat teams are over 4,500 troops. Ukrainian units do not look like US force structure. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2021-05/57088-Force-Structure-Primer.pdf

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:10

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Small White Dragon posted:

Is HIV that prevalent in Russia, is this just them jailing a bunch of LGB folk, or what?

My sibling in christ, it is 2023, HIV is well past the gay disease stereotype.
But yes it is insanely bad, Russia has been leading Europe in new cases for a long time, with government trying its best to ignore it or state that its just more decadent west propaganda

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/12/08/russia-dismisses-data-showing-worlds-5th-highest-hiv-infection-rate-a79636

Since drug-related crimes offer a steady supply of convicts, high number of HIV affected in prison is linked mostly to it - bad needles etc

fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Apr 22, 2023

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:49

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

fatherboxx posted:

I'm still here until Russian state decides to punish me for bad posting and draft (or rather imprison) my rear end

No, uh-uh, gently caress that. You are not allowed to quit. I already now have to start reading this thread every day, I don't want to moderate it alone. (please dont quit)

# ? Apr 22, 2023 02:01