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K8.0 posted:PC gaming is going to be fine. AAA gaming is not. What was the last AAA release on any platform that was actually good? Like something that you would put on a list of games that someone has to have experienced? It's been loving years, the industry is collapsing. Almost all the top-rated games now are produced by small to midsized teams with no to midsized marketing budgets. Those type of titles tend to not be super demanding. no GFX pusher of which i would spend money on, but i will give Elden Ring a thumbs up solely for not being a remake or another CGI movie with tackled on gameplay i preordered Zelda: TotK fully blind and also fully expecting that to be a trainwreck, but at least that would be a cheap trainwreck
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Apr 22, 2023 16:00
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K8.0 posted:PC gaming is going to be fine. AAA gaming is not. What was the last AAA release on any platform that was actually good? Like something that you would put on a list of games that someone has to have experienced? It's been loving years, the industry is collapsing. Almost all the top-rated games now are produced by small to midsized teams with no to midsized marketing budgets. Those type of titles tend to not be super demanding. Dead Space…. Remake….
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Apr 22, 2023 17:05
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Instead of trying to make interesting games, the big publishers are just currently chasing trend after trend. I don't see how this is an issue just for the PC market though, it effects consoles too.
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Apr 22, 2023 17:14
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K8.0 posted:PC gaming is going to be fine. AAA gaming is not. What was the last AAA release on any platform that was actually good? Like something that you would put on a list of games that someone has to have experienced? This is a pretty high bar considering those kinds games have historically been rather rare. But in any case, Elden Ring? And Tears of the Kingdom is coming out in less than a month. The AAA industry has certainly been in a slump the last two or three years, largely due to covid. But to say the it's 'collapsing' seems excessively cynical.
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Apr 22, 2023 17:14
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Josh Lyman posted:I’m not sure anyone expects Supers this gen. We didn’t have them last gen, just Ti, and the 4070 Ti already exists. CaptainSarcastic posted:I'd say we kind of did have them last gen, but it was done in a much more muddied way. The 3080 12GB is kind of like a Super, in that it has more memory and is faster than the original 3080. And I think some of the plethora of 3060 variants that could be counted as Supers. it's probably most concise to just call them a "mid-gen refresh". 700 series and 650 Ti Boost were the mid-gen refresh. 980 Ti and 1080 Ti were the mid-gen refresh. 20 Super was the mid-gen refresh. etc. the naming is not consistent at all, previously they used to outright divide the generations into two numerical series (fermi was 400/500, kepler was 600/700, etc) and sometimes launch specific "Ti" skus (650 Ti Boost, 980 Ti, 1070 Ti, 1080 Ti, etc). 20-series did the "super" schtick. I think yeah 3080 ti, 3080 12gb, and 3090 Ti were the mid-gen refresh for 30-series but it frankly wasn't much of an adjustment because they didn't need one, everything was selling anyway. In this particular case it actually was an adjustment to increase prices if anything - 3070 Ti, 3080 Ti, 3080 12GB were all basically ways to make a little more revenue rather than a downward adjustment, and production costs were rising due to mining+pandemic pushing demand. 1070 Ti in particular is really the forgotten SKU, everyone completely forgets that it existed because it launched november 2017 as a counter to custom Vega cards (coming out a few months later) when the mining craze was really taking off hard and before too long we were into the Turing generation. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 17:15
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Mega Comrade posted:Instead of trying to make interesting games, the big publishers are just currently chasing trend after trend. when has this ever not been true
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Apr 22, 2023 17:15
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This is a pretty high bar considering those kinds games have historically been rather rare. But in any case, Elden Ring? And Tears of the Kingdom is coming out in less than a month. The part that’s ringing true for me, at least, is that AAA games aren’t especially *bad*, technical issues aside. They just happen to be so risk adverse that there’s hardly anything novel or noteworthy about the vast majority of them. Death Stranding comes to mind as something that had AAA muscle behind it and made a point to take a big risk. This is getting into hot take zone, but it contrasts well with my experiences playing RDR2 & CP2077. Mechanically decent games, pretty to look at and at times extremely immersive, but I gave up on both games because they all felt like something I’ve played a dozen times before.
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Apr 22, 2023 17:30
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buglord posted:The part that’s ringing true for me, at least, is that AAA games aren’t especially *bad*, technical issues aside. They just happen to be so risk adverse that there’s hardly anything novel or noteworthy about the vast majority of them. Death Stranding comes to mind as something that had AAA muscle behind it and made a point to take a big risk. This is getting into hot take zone, but it contrasts well with my experiences playing RDR2 & CP2077. Mechanically decent games, pretty to look at and at times extremely immersive, but I gave up on both games because they all felt like something I’ve played a dozen times before. See, I would actually use RDR2 as an example of a AAA game that took quite a few risks, starting with the basic setting--how many successful AAA games aside from the previous RDR had been set in the late 19th century American west? And then there's the obsessive dedication to immersion through the gameplay and controls that ended up being so divisive. Like yeah, RDR2 existed within a well-defined genre, but the means in which it explored that genre were not safe bets by any means. I'd say there's no other game I've ever played that's quite like RDR2. (cp2077 though... not much argument there)
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Apr 22, 2023 17:49
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This is a pretty high bar considering those kinds games have historically been rather rare. But in any case, Elden Ring? And Tears of the Kingdom is coming out in less than a month. IDK, I suggest you actually pick through AAA games by year and their reception. If you count From games as AAA (I don't because they aren't huge development budget games, From is still a mid-sized studio though admittedly their marketing budgets are maybe creeping into AAA territory) then yes, Elden Ring might count, but it's also probably the only one you'd count from the past four years. Whereas 2018 had RDR2, 2017 had BOTW & Odyssey, 2016 maybe no super great AAA games, 2015 had MGSV, TW3, Bloodborne (assuming you count From), 2014 maybe nothing, 2013 GTA V... I think there's been a marked decline in the frequency of big budget + big marketing budget games that are actually any good, and a virtual cessation of such games that are good enough to become considered a classic. There are probably more good games than ever before, but most of them are not flagship products from mega-publishers at this point.
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Apr 22, 2023 18:52
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I hate to be devil's advocate but I feel like there's been loads of great AAA games in recent years. I think the cynicism regarding remakes and sequels have put a lot of people off what are otherwise actually really great games. FFVIIr, Doom 2016, MHW, Resident Evil, there's been a bunch of huge AAA games that knocked it out the park. I think the real issue that everyone sees here but isn't quite putting their finger on it, is the mangled-cross-generation transitional period. It's been a total mess, to put it simply, and some of it understandable. From DX11 to DX12, alongside going from PS4 to PS5, alongside a pandemic and a hot war in Europe.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:15
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the notion of a "good" game is subjective anyway, and even if it wasn't a game doesn't have to be "good" in order to be financially or critically successful.Zedsdeadbaby posted:I hate to be devil's advocate but I feel like there's been loads of great AAA games in recent years. I think the cynicism regarding remakes and sequels have put a lot of people off what are otherwise actually really great games. FFVIIr, Doom 2016, MHW, Resident Evil, there's been a bunch of huge AAA games that knocked it out the park. i'd add doom eternal to that pile.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:24
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Come to think of it, Resident Evil 7 was fantastic and that was my very first RE game (was too scared to ever play 2 on PS1 & and also had catholic parents growing up)
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Apr 22, 2023 19:51
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My controversial opinion is that there are many good and fun video games to play and as long as that is true people will play them. Well thanks for listening.
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Apr 22, 2023 20:39
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The push for 4k and high refresh rate displays the last few years has been a huge boon for GPU sales, too. If all people still wanted was 1080p/60 Ultra, there would be little reason to go above like a 2060 for the vast majority of games.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:17
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on the other hand, the proliferation of DLSS/FSR is finally making 4K monitors tenable for people who can't afford to buy the latest halo meme card every generation this comparison from the new DF video was pretty striking 
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Apr 22, 2023 23:34
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the striking thing to me about that screenshot is a 4090 hitting 70fps on both settings
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Apr 23, 2023 00:48
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shrike82 posted:the striking thing to me about that screenshot is a 4090 hitting 70fps on both settings Well yeah, DLSS performance at 4k output is typically using 1080p input. Same render resolution, same performance.
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Apr 23, 2023 01:00
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i was thinking more how the 4090 struggles with the game without FG
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Apr 23, 2023 01:05
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that's with the pathtracing bells and whistles enabled, it goes without saying that it's very expensive
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Apr 23, 2023 01:06
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with pathtracing on at 4k and dlss balanced it's fairly playable at around 50-60 FPS without FG on a 4090 (though this is definitely dependent on location, of course, the forested park definitely adds a hit), DLSS balanced at 4k is, what, 1200p-ish?
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Apr 23, 2023 01:08
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i wonder if nvidia would be better served focused on providing engineering support for unreleased games like starfield going back to CP2077 and Witcher and bolting on RT and path-tracing is neat but they look quite dated CP2077 was a bit of a surprise to me but the path-tracing effects are lessened when the rest of the game especially the character models look so-so (from a contemporary perspective)
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Apr 23, 2023 01:11
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The showpiece characters can have spectacular models, but random street npcs street are pretty underwhelming.
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Apr 23, 2023 01:14
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The mod scene for 2077 has very nice texture enhancements including for generic and named npcs. I think it looks fantastic and Vortex makes it all pretty dang easy.
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Apr 23, 2023 03:44
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Taima posted:The mod scene for 2077 has very nice texture enhancements including for generic and named npcs. I think it looks fantastic and Vortex makes it all pretty dang easy. Vortex is loving poo poo. Like I can believe that it’s the best option for CP2077 (as another example, modding FF12 requires a weird shim that’s ONLY installed through Vortex), but compared to Mod Organizer it’s so bad.
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Apr 23, 2023 03:53
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just started on Dead Island 2 and it looks decent for a non-RT game - interesting shader compilation implementation where it appears to be compiling them every launch lol that they make a big deal about supporting alexa for speech commands
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Apr 23, 2023 04:23
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Arivia posted:Vortex is loving poo poo. Like I can believe that it’s the best option for CP2077 (as another example, modding FF12 requires a weird shim that’s ONLY installed through Vortex), but compared to Mod Organizer it’s so bad. Oh, yeah that’s fair. I’m not really into mods normally so idk the wider scene. I just had an easy enough time getting the mods I wanted. Regardless, the 2077 mod scene is good. I actually just downloaded the mods yesterday because I waited for the path tracing patch to play the game. I wasn’t exactly floored with the graphics until the texture mods were in. Taima fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 10:26
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Indiana_Krom posted:Well yeah, DLSS performance at 4k output is typically using 1080p input. Same render resolution, same performance. You would think, but for Last of Us Remake it was double the fps with native 1080p than 1080 upscaled to 4k. I think they'll be finding all the ways that game was hosed up for years to come. I wound up having to upscale like 600p to get it to mostly keep over 60fps.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:23
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some post-processing passes run after DLSS/FSR at the output resolution, so TLOU might be doing something unusual heavy there
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Apr 23, 2023 14:27
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K8.0 posted:PC gaming is going to be fine. AAA gaming is not. What was the last AAA release on any platform that was actually good? Like something that you would put on a list of games that someone has to have experienced? It's been loving years, the industry is collapsing. Almost all the top-rated games now are produced by small to midsized teams with no to midsized marketing budgets. Those type of titles tend to not be super demanding.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:59
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Also, DlSS, TSR, FSR, XESS all have a performance cost, it is usually less though than the cost of rendering native. So there are some rare scenarios where enabling these techs will actually slow down games. Basically if the rendering cost of the scene is relatively unaffected by actual resolution. Though off the top of my head I can only think that would be the case with heavy amounts of lights in a classic forward shaded game would that happen and I don't have examples.
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Apr 23, 2023 15:04
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Twibbit posted:Also, DlSS, TSR, FSR, XESS all have a performance cost, it is usually less though than the cost of rendering native. So there are some rare scenarios where enabling these techs will actually slow down games. Basically if the rendering cost of the scene is relatively unaffected by actual resolution. Though off the top of my head I can only think that would be the case with heavy amounts of lights in a classic forward shaded game would that happen and I don't have examples.
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Apr 23, 2023 15:13
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Twibbit posted:Also, DlSS, TSR, FSR, XESS all have a performance cost, it is usually less though than the cost of rendering native. So there are some rare scenarios where enabling these techs will actually slow down games. Basically if the rendering cost of the scene is relatively unaffected by actual resolution. Though off the top of my head I can only think that would be the case with heavy amounts of lights in a classic forward shaded game would that happen and I don't have examples. quad occupancy also makes the scaling more complicated than you might intuitively think, rendering the internal 1080p buffer to upscale to 4K can be more expensive than rendering 1080p normally even before you account for the cost of the upscaler itself. the gist is that GPU rasterizers group pixel shading into 2x2 quads of pixels, if a polygon overlaps any part of a quad then it has to shade all four pixels in the quad. that penalizes drawing tiny triangles, in the worst case a triangle will only touch a single pixel but invoke 4 pixel shader threads. normally games try to balance their LODs to make triangles cover at least ~10 pixels to minimise this overhead, but to get full quality out of temporal upscalers you have to choose LODs as if you were rendering at the upscaled output resolution, so triangles get smaller relative to the internal render resolution. the impact of that varies a lot depending on the renderer architecture, forward renderers are hit the worst as they use very complex pixel shaders, deferred shading mitigates it partially, and nanite does quad-less rasterization in software so it's not really affected at all. same goes for textures, rendering 1080p to upscale to 4K means you have to select higher resolution texture LODs as if you were rendering 4K native, which is harder on the cache than rendering native 1080p repiv fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 15:22
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Snagged a 4070 from micro center and then decided I wanted a different model so I did an exchange. Turns out each transaction netted me a steam gift card, which the cashier was very adamant about getting both.
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Apr 23, 2023 16:35
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Snagged a 4070 from micro center and then decided I wanted a different model so I did an exchange. Turns out each transaction netted me a steam gift card, which the cashier was very adamant about getting both. You've won this GPU generation, congrats.
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Apr 23, 2023 17:21
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Snagged a 4070 from micro center and then decided I wanted a different model so I did an exchange. Turns out each transaction netted me a steam gift card, which the cashier was very adamant about getting both. Out of curiosity, which models, and why?
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Apr 23, 2023 17:29
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Just discovered that when people say "FE cards are only available at Best Buy" what they actually mean is "...or direct from Nvidia", so I've ordered a 4070 FE. Looking forward to seeing what the extra CUs and generational efficiency improvement yields, especially compared to my 3060 Ti.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:35
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mdxi posted:Just discovered that when people say "FE cards are only available at Best Buy" what they actually mean is "...or direct from Nvidia", so I've ordered a 4070 FE. Nvidia stopped selling directly during the pandemic craze.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:50
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I have some issues with gsync that are befuddling me, though I have arguably solved them. I'm just curious as to why they might be happening. Running with Xiaomi Mi 34 and 3060 Ti The Xiaomi Mi 34 admittedly has flickering issues posted on bunch of forums with both Freesync and Gsync I believe. I can get gsync to work properly in fullscreen, but windowed/borderless, regardless of the setting in the nvidia control panel allowing windowed games to work, won't drop the refresh rate at all, just stays on native 144 hz, on top of adding flickering. Fullscreen isn't really an option since it adds considerable delay switching between windows. There's a little dubious project on github fixing this, but it also.... reintroduces gsync flickering. But running the game in DXVK/Vulkan ( https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk ) works perfectly all-around. On Windows. Well, apart from the window no longer being true windowed (can't *drag* anything on top of the game window) but that's all right in my books. Someone originally suggested testing the vulkan renderer for latency/draw calls or something, because apparently the game's renderer's latency is horrible or something? Only other game I've really played with the monitor is the new Need For Speed and I didn't notice any flickering with it. Oh, any non-standard windows manager window? causes the monitor to flicker (Think some windows store-like apps or something, not following normal Windows design language) These are pretty basic gsync issues from what I know, and I'm not too fussed about them since I don't have a premium monitor anyways, but why on Earth does a vulkan renderer in this specific game just... get rid of my issues?
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Apr 23, 2023 20:12
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pyrotek posted:Out of curiosity, which models, and why? Originally I got an MSI Venture 3x but while I was waiting for my partner to come out of the Trader Joe's next to MicroCenter I was looking at some testing that i should have looked at and saw the ASUS TUF 3fan had the lowest noise and best thermals. I'm sensitive to the noise level because the computer is in a bedroom. Never actually got the first one home, I exchanged it unopened about 30 minutes after I bought it.
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Apr 23, 2023 20:22
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mdxi posted:Just discovered that when people say "FE cards are only available at Best Buy" what they actually mean is "...or direct from Nvidia", so I've ordered a 4070 FE. Rinkles posted:Nvidia stopped selling directly during the pandemic craze. Yeah, after like a few drops directly, Nvidia just passed it all off to Best Buy. But yeah, up until now they haven't sold their own cards directly, but seems like the 4070 is the exception now.  Edit: Interesting the 4080 can also be bought directly, but the 4090 still has you go to Best Buy. 
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Apr 23, 2023 21:25
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