(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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orange juche posted:The problem isn't so much the method it's the number of Neptune missiles they have as they were not in production, just prototyping, and the fact that Russia has had it proven that the Neptune works, so the Black Sea Fleet is staying outside the range of ashore missile batteries. Not sure if Ukraine even has any more Neptune batteries left, it's possible that the few they had may have been hit by lucky long range strikes, but Russia likely isn't willing to take the chance with their ships. They have a pile of Harpoons in addition to the few Neptunes and it's extremely unlikely long range strikes have been hitting any of the ASM launchers. Russian targeting has been pretty poo poo against things that aren't stationary infrastructure type targets (and not especially great there either), and those launchers are very mobile. The Black Sea Fleet is at this point a few floating cruise missile platforms, plus subs. They can threaten shipping and blow up relatively stationary targets, but are otherwise unable to contribute to the air or ground war. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 16:36
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The way the Ukrainians suckered the Moskva is going to be taught in classrooms as a masterpiece example of how to largely negate or mitigate the strategic value of enemy naval and naval aviation assets while having no real navy of your own to speak of E: Russia stole a lot of Ukraine's ships in 2014 when they took Crimea and there were several dozen high ranking defections from the Ukrainian navy to the Russian navy E2: LOL have some trolling from one of the foreign legion volunteers https://twitter.com/SarahAshtonLV/status/1649768593293279232?s=20 HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 16:41
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I don't think anyone knows officially but the rumor was that Ukraine had made maybe 2-6 Neptunes, along with a couple of truck based TEL's, before their manufacturing facility got blown up at the start of the war. They might've gotten more from someone else for all I or anyone knows. All we can do is guess because they're keeping a tight lid on the rumors regarding their anti ship missiles. Given that the Russians pulled back quite a bit from the coast it would seem that they still believe their ships are at risk from them.
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Apr 22, 2023 16:48
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:I don't think anyone knows officially but the rumor was that Ukraine had made maybe 2-6 Neptunes, along with a couple of truck based TEL's, before their manufacturing facility got blown up at the start of the war. They got a bunch of Harpoons, which are very similar (but somewhat shorter range) to the Neptune. Getting those Harpoons was likely the reason they felt safe to risk some of their few Neptunes to attack the Moskva.
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Apr 22, 2023 16:49
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still lol that the Black Sea flagship got gotten by a country without a navy
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Apr 22, 2023 17:17
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A Pack of Kobolds posted:Do the wood splinters cause a great deal of rectal bleeding or just a moderate amount? First the former, then the latter but after a while one develops a kind of carapace down there
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Apr 22, 2023 17:36
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Нанананан Ukraine will also be doing air land battle and dropping airborne troops into Sevastopol while sending long rows of tanks into crimea
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Apr 22, 2023 17:37
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Нанананан okay gigolo im putting you on notice because I read that as NANANANANANANANA like the loving batman song and im mad at you rn
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Apr 22, 2023 17:50
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I dont see why they'd even need to cross the isthmus when they could just advance up to the crossing and then repeatedly bombard the kerch bridge and any ships that come into missile range until Crimea russians give up or they leave.
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Apr 22, 2023 17:51
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Arc Hammer posted:I dont see why they'd even need to cross the isthmus when they could just advance up to the crossing and then repeatedly bombard the kerch bridge and any ships that come into missile range until Crimea russians give up or they leave. It would be a really dumb decision to actually invade Crimea because the isthmus isn't just an isthmus, it's the swampiest poo poo in the entire region. Check this out:  Not only are there only two land routes south into the isthmus, on either side of those is narrow swampland and a bunch of lakes and marshes. It would be an extremely bad idea to actually do that if you didn't absolutely have to, because the alternative is just severing the Kerch bridge and posting up at Melitopol or Berdyansk and just siege the Russians out of Crimea while Ukraine's ground operations keep focusing on the Donbas. There's no need to militarily occupy Crimea at this time
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Apr 22, 2023 18:01
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1649779596311535618 The foreign minister is going to Kyiv soon. Brazil got bigger priorities
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Apr 22, 2023 18:04
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On the other hand, the sooner Crimea is liberated the sooner the Black Sea ports can be reopened. With all the economic and logistical benefits that entails.
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Apr 22, 2023 18:05
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They could just blow up the kerch bridge and stop yrains getting to the ishtmus and wait for crimea to surrender. The troops there need resupply.
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Apr 22, 2023 18:07
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Not just troops the isthmus needs supplies for food and everything to actually survive.
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Apr 22, 2023 18:09
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People also forget that Crimea isn't JUST a Russian military peninsula. A poo poo ton of people live there that have nothing to do with the military. Crimea's got a total population of 2.4 million est 2021, and a lot of them are civilians. That's a tricky situation to navigate if you want to minimize civilian deaths
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Apr 22, 2023 18:41
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I'm trying to think of an analysis from the Sun I would trust, and the best I can come up with is "Water continues to be wet". Even then I'd probably double check.
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Apr 22, 2023 18:48
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bad_fmr posted:Finns sell bad toiletpaper to Russia on purpose. Hitting where it hurts splinter after splinter. We trained this toilet paper wrong. As a joke
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Apr 22, 2023 18:59
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Like Jeremy Clarkson in Top Gear once said, "the high performance cars operated by KGB were tuned to run on the petrol that was specially imported from Finland, because unlike Soviet gasoline it didn't have twigs and leaves in it". I absolutely have no idea if this is true or something Clarkson made up, but seeing that toilet paper I am starting to believe it wasn't purely just a throw-away joke.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:08
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Russians stealing toilets is just them desperately trying to find the hardware that can handle the brutal hakkapeliitta paper sabotage
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Apr 22, 2023 19:10
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Russian gasoline is just swamp water. This is due to corruption, but also due to pollution.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:12
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Karate Bastard posted:Russian gasoline is just swamp water. This is due to corruption, but also due to pollution. Sounds to me like a proper recycling program to clean up all those tailing ponds that got fuel dumped in them!
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Apr 22, 2023 19:15
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Der Kyhe posted:Like Jeremy Clarkson in Top Gear once said, "the high performance cars operated by KGB were tuned to run on the petrol that was specially imported from Finland, because unlike Soviet gasoline it didn't have twigs and leaves in it". This is related, and to bring it back to the Russian Navy once more, if you ever wonder why the Admiral Kuznetsov constantly looks like it's on fire (i mean, excluding the times when it WAS on fire) it's because the fuel it burns is this nasty poo poo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazut Mazut is extremely low quality heavy fuel oil that's used in power plants and in Russia's case, an aircraft carrier. In the US and Europe mazut is further refined into diesel, but in the former USSR mazut is often used for heating in homes. It was plentiful in the USSR and is basically only manufactured by Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan for heavy industry steam boiler fuel. The great thing about mazut is that it has a poo poo ton of sulphur in it so it's considered a dirty oil product and god its just disgusting. Mazut has a terrible smell and texture that is a pain to get rid of. It also produces billowing clouds of thick toxic black smoke in Kuznetsov's case because the lack of maintainence and proper oil heating procedures means that the Kuznetsov doesn't HAVE to announce its position with a column of mile high oil smoke, that's just the corruption for you.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:16
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Alan Smithee posted:I went to a circus in Russia. It was...fine? They made do with what they had https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFwxs7u4HM&t=178s
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Apr 22, 2023 19:17
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drat they sure got a good taste in music
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Apr 22, 2023 19:34
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HonorableTB posted:okay gigolo im putting you on notice because I read that as NANANANANANANANA like the loving batman song and im mad at you rn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsovfpizZP0 edit: why imbed no work on phone, fixed appropriatemetaphor fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 19:37
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Dr. Quarex posted:Yeah I doubt Russian circus performers are specifically worthy of hate, and I have to agree when I was on my exchange trip to Russia and they took us to the circus it was, like, O.K., clearly everything was 30+ years old, but as a result I got to watch a like slow-motion blacklight parade of clowns and animals in a pretend boat while this blasted over the speakers and it was definitely the highlight of my lifetime circus experiences Shame about the animal abuse, cause that sounds amazing.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:39
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Warbadger posted:They got a bunch of Harpoons, which are very similar (but somewhat shorter range) to the Neptune. Well that is good to hear. Its amazing how dangerous these old (they've done upgrades but its still a 70's era weapon originally) missiles can still be. Of course if even half the rumors are true about how terribly the Russian navy is maintained and staff are true then it makes lots of sense that they'd be a high risk from them. Its a Lazerpig vid but its also one of his more sedate and serious ones on the Moskva's sinking and he mentions a leaked Russian report on the state of that ship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNEtlMSCiCI I dunno if that report is accurate but would explain a lot if it was. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 20:37
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Ukraine's gotten some good use out of their legacy Tu-141 Soviet drones  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-141
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Apr 22, 2023 20:44
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ChaseSP posted:Not just troops the isthmus needs supplies for Crimea will be a poo poo show. 
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Apr 22, 2023 21:11
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Ukraine continues to win the meme war: https://twitter.com/i/status/1649246577205350400 We should definitely be giving them F-16s though.
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Apr 22, 2023 21:54
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Well that is good to hear. Well, it turns out "small object 15 meters off the surface" is a hard problem to solve. It turned out pretty much every Cold War Soviet naval SAM and point defense system was terrible at exactly that sort of threat because you won't see it until it's pretty drat close to your surface ship and any waves combined with the small radar cross section facing the target can make it hard to engage. The Exocet is another similar sea skimming missile and responsible for successful attacks on Western ships with pretty capable defenses for this reason. Meanwhile every single Soviet navalized SAM system up until the 00's had minimum effective altitudes over 25m, most of them substantially higher. On the point defense side of things the AK-630 was super bad at low altitude targets, being the prime reason for the development of Kashtan CIWS to replace it in the late 80's... which was apparently also pretty unreliable at shooting down sea skimmers, prompting replacement with the Pantsir-M (which still hasn't really entered service). For reference the Moskva still had the (modernized) AK-630 and a bunch of Cold War era SAM systems. Even were the Moskva 100% alert with all air defenses up and running with competent crews on walkie-talkies to enable communications through the ship's insane deficiencies it's actually pretty reasonable to assume it might have trouble with the Neptune/Harpoon/Exocet. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Apr 22, 2023 |
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Apr 22, 2023 22:00
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thekeeshman posted:Ukraine continues to win the meme war: lmao they're so loving good at this
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Apr 22, 2023 22:19
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In Soviet Russia, rear end in a top hat wipe you!!
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Apr 22, 2023 22:33
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HonorableTB posted:okay gigolo im putting you on notice because I read that as NANANANANANANANA like the loving batman song and im mad at you rn Blyatman! Blyatman! Blyatmaaaan!
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Apr 22, 2023 22:36
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thekeeshman posted:Ukraine continues to win the meme war:  looking forward to their F-15 Strike Eagle video
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Apr 22, 2023 23:01
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1649310750127554561?t=ItX9dtRwXDenpxuwyCOUfg&s=19 Some recruits training...
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Apr 22, 2023 23:46
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TaurusTorus posted:Just sell Japan Shetland, bingo bongo Japan's in the north atlantic. But do we really want to risk a combination of anime and ponies?
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Apr 23, 2023 00:06
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HonorableTB posted:This is related, and to bring it back to the Russian Navy once more, if you ever wonder why the Admiral Kuznetsov constantly looks like it's on fire (i mean, excluding the times when it WAS on fire) it's because the fuel it burns is this nasty poo poo: That's wild, you'd think they wouldn't intentionally use lovely fuel for their top of the line naval vessels.
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Apr 23, 2023 00:13
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EasilyConfused posted:That's wild, you'd think they wouldn't intentionally use lovely fuel for their top of the line naval vessels. it's ok cuz it'll never see any kind of service anyway
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Apr 23, 2023 00:13
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EasilyConfused posted:That's wild, you'd think they wouldn't intentionally use lovely fuel for their top of the line naval vessels. It makes a certain amount of sense. Relatively cheap fuel, readily available in-country and able to be processed by domestic refineries without reliance on much outside of Russia. Less of a PITA than running a unique nuclear powered ship, with all that entails. The Kiev/Kuznetsovs were designed to fit into a certain order that doesn't really exist in the RF Navy anymore. Many of the ships she was supposed to work with are decrepit or scrapped, with no practical replacements. While intended to be a blue water vessel, she has limited use in that context without a bunch of support and is a big old target close to shore, where she could project airpower. It has been difficult to fill out her air component, too, further limiting the uses she can be put to. I'm more shocked that they keep pouring money into the thing. Prestige means little when it's been shown to the whole world that she can not achieve as much as the smallest aircraft carrier or the largest heli-carriers/amphibs. Fuckit. Every Ruble spent degrades the capability of a useful asset.
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Apr 23, 2023 00:37
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