|
Badly Jester posted:
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 15:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
Count Thrashula posted:Doesn't Penitent already answer who that is at the end? The way I remember it, Penitent heavily implied it to be Valdor, but left some room for doubt. My memory's not the greatest, admittedly. Case in point, my memory is poo poo. Thanks for clarifying. That also means the spoiler I accidentally read wasn’t accurate, which is even better. vvvv Badly Jester fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Apr 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 15:06
|
|
|
Badly Jester posted:The way I remember it, Penitent heavily implied it to be Valdor, but left some room for doubt. My memory's not the greatest, admittedly. the literal last line of the book is "The Yellow King's name is Constantin Valdor" anyone saying its not Valdor is being silly
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:the literal last line of the book is "The Yellow King's name is Constantin Valdor" anyone saying its not Valdor is being silly the book is one name and they all assume its the name of the King. At least thats how I read it, like the books isnt called "THE NAME OF THE YELLOW KING". At the end Renner goes "the name is..." and then Beta goes "the yellow king is valdor." Which TO ME feels like an assumption. I mean most likely youre correct but Im feeling cantankerous and pedantic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 19:53
|
|
|
Badly Jester posted:Sorry if this has been asked before, but how much of the Siege of Terra series is worth reading/should I read before reading The End the Death? Those walls of spoilers for it have definitely piqued my interest*, but I only have so much time to keep up with Black Library releases. If that series is anything like the Horus Heresy, there's bound to be quite a few books that are skippable. Unless something worthwhile happens that I forgot about, you could probably just do Saturnine, Mortis if you like titan stuff, Warhawk, and then Echoes of Eternity. The only real back story needed is "stuff keeps getting worse." You might be a bit confused about a certain group of people but if you've read Legion and Know No Fear (if you haven't you should) you can just Google to fill in the details. Source: I literally never read any of the HH books and started with the Siege series. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone else 
sharknado slashfic fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Apr 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 20:10
|
|
|
Getting back into 40K, so I'm also getting back into reading Black Library. Read the Twice Dead King series and loved it, and now I'm considering jumping back into the Heresy series. The last one I read was Prospero Burns, and looking at Wikipedia there's approximately 80 books after that. Do I need to read them all, or are there some Greatest Hits I can go through on my way to the Siege?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
Unremembered Empire possibly for lore (it's not bad, not great imo) , Know No Fear, Betrayer, Scars, Vengeful Spirit for lore, Path of Heaven, Praetorian of Dorn, Master of Mankind I think is the general consensus of good ones after that. Maybe Wolfsbane for lore and Titan death if you like Titans, which I don't so I haven't read it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 20:35
|
|
|
Are the Gotrek and Felix books still good after they switch to the second author? Almost done with the last Mike King installment
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
I think you could legit skip from know no fear (possibly read vengeful spirit) to the siege, maybe pick up one of the imperium secundus books (unremembered empire being the best of a bad bunch). The latter heresy is just a slog, read something better with your time
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 22:58
|
|
|
lenoon posted:I think you could legit skip from know no fear (possibly read vengeful spirit) to the siege, maybe pick up one of the imperium secundus books (unremembered empire being the best of a bad bunch). The latter heresy is just a slog, read something better with your time Missing First Heretic and Betrayer would be a shame, imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
sharknado slashfic posted:Maybe Wolfsbane for lore and Titan death if you like Titans, which I don't so I haven't read it. For Titans, Titandeath sets up characters and situations for Mortis. It's also a good giant stompy robot book in its own right. Gravitas Shortfall posted:Missing First Heretic and Betrayer would be a shame, imo Definitely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Missing First Heretic and Betrayer would be a shame, imo Very true - first heretic comes before know no fear though. Definitely read betrayer!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:For Titans, Titandeath sets up characters and situations for Mortis. It's also a good giant stompy robot book in its own right. I skipped through most of Mortis lol And yeah read First Heretic if you haven't, it's basically the setup for the whole setting. And read it before Betrayer. sharknado slashfic fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Apr 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:12
|
|
|
I'd actually argue not to read Mortis if you dig Titans. There's a few cool bits of Legio Ignatum lore and character, but a lot of really boring stuff. And then a huge waste as the Ordo Sinister is introduced and then fucks off, presumably never to be seen again. I have a friend who skipped right to End and the Death and that's probably not the worst thing you could do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:18
|
|
|
sharknado slashfic posted:I skipped through most of Mortis lol I loved Titandeath and big stompy robots in general but Mortis was still really meh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:21
|
|
|
I finished the new Lion book and while it does drop some useful info it seems overall to be a really poorly written book. The characters feel very cartoony and the stakes are all over the place, the Lion seems not at all like a primarch and just a really skilled shovelware protagonist. But I’m coming off having read the Urdesh series by Matthew Farrer and I mostly read Abnett and ADB, so maybe my expectations are too high.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:30
|
|
|
Mazed posted:the characterization of Abaddon in more recent years as the guy who's job it is to herd cats; that is, the forces of Chaos in general, in the general direction of actual strategic gains vs. the Imperium has done him a world of favors. It's not that he's a big scary spiky guy who is nonsensically evil, it's that he's capable of scaring the other big scary spiky guys who are nonsensically evil into actually cooperating. yeah, its also a whole thing of a dude who loved his father and lost brothers in service to him come to the realization that his dad was either brain hosed by chaos or hallowed out by it entirely depending on the telling. he wants to finish what his dad started but he has to heard cats and not let he himself become like his dad while he is doing it since chaos cares more about the journy more then the ending.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 23:58
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:I finished the new Lion book and while it does drop some useful info it seems overall to be a really poorly written book. The characters feel very cartoony and the stakes are all over the place, the Lion seems not at all like a primarch and just a really skilled shovelware protagonist. But I’m coming off having read the Urdesh series by Matthew Farrer and I mostly read Abnett and ADB, so maybe my expectations are too high. Yeah, Mike Brooks writing is pretty jarring compared to those authors. He gets love in here because he writes some different stuff, but it's very cartoony as you say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
notaspy posted:He's goal isn't to tear down The Imperium, it's to take it over. So lets be real.for a second, how much worse would it be for the average member of the empire to be ruled over by Abaddon and not the current lot? That is how hosed the current Imperium is! It's probably going to depend on where you are, and even then the odds of there being a livable status quo aren't great. The most bankable outcome of Abaddon's victory is the galaxy getting hacked apart into thousands of warring states ruled alternately by Chaos warlords who've successfully beaten out the rest, and by Imperial powers with the muscle to hang on. For the former: While some Chaos factions have the means and the vision to create something potentially sustainable, such as some Thousand Sons-or-adjacent (who want to engender a humanity that embraces its psychic nature), some followers of Fabius Bile (who want to engender a humanity capable of adapting to anything), and some Iron Warriors (number-crunching until stability is attained); numerous lords, including powerful Black Legionnaires, are Chaos true believers, and the result of them coming to power is everything and everyone on world after world being spent in apocalyptic rituals carried out in the name of the Ruinous Powers (see: the fate of the planet in the first Word Bearers novel.) For the latter: Any and all Imperial holdouts will targeted for resources, or targeted out of sheer spite, or a combination of both. The lighter-shade-of-grimdark regions such as Ultramar wouldn't stay that way for long, and the ones that are legitimately bad will only get worse. Terra would be a special case, since the death (or at least, disruption) of the Emperor is likely to cause an absolute explosion of warp activity; expect a new Eye of Terror (Eye of Terra?  ) that's possibly even worse, since it'd be the epicenter of the Warp mixing with the remnants of the Emperor's power, which we know from the Black Legion novels is enough to cause incredibly dangerous phenomena. This, and the combination of the warp storms triggered by the aforementioned rituals of Chaos devotees, would eventually engulf the galaxy.And this is still notwithstanding the more persistent alien threats, particularly the Tyranids, who are are both highly adaptable and can force the Warp to adapt to them, the Necrons, who are anathema to Chaos and likely capable of consolidating their own gains in the face of it, especially if the notion that they've only just begun to awaken is true (so maybe if you want peace and quiet your best prospects are as some senile Phaeron's novelty household slave?), and the Orks, who are just happy to be here. In any case, this state of affairs is almost certainly what Abaddon himself, and his top agents, suspect will happen, and knowing him, this is acceptable. His belief that the rightful inheritors of power are the warriors capable of winning it is completely compatible with a galaxy in a state of total warp-fueled anarchy, and if some new establishment rises to encompass all of it, be it his own idea of what the Imperium should have been or otherwise, that's fine. The guy probably can't even imagine what he'd do with himself in the event of actual peace.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 05:47
|
|
|
Abbadon wants to win without pledging himself to the gods, but the gods only want him to win after he's pledged to them so he's in a weird limbo that Vashtor is helping him try to escape
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 06:10
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Abbadon wants to win without pledging himself to the gods, but the gods only want him to win after he's pledged to them so he's in a weird limbo that Vashtor is helping him try to escape And considering Vashtorr's plan ends in him becoming a 5th chaos god if he succeeds, I'm not sure Abaddon wouldn't get more than he bargained for if it works out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 06:15
|
|
|
Thanks, everyone. I think I have decided on about 5 books. While deciding this, I had a flashback to starting Know No Fear and it being so awful I stopped reading the series altogether.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 06:25
|
|
|
Reading the entire Horus Heresy series and skipping none of it is the true experience, in that you feel like you're being forced to fight in it like everyone in them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
Mazed posted:Reading the entire Horus Heresy series and skipping none of it is the true experience, in that you feel like you're being forced to fight in it like everyone in them. yeah its quite the slog
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
I'm glad I did it but it should come with a medal or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 08:00
|
|
|
Finished Mike Brook's The Lion: Son of the Forest. It's mostly fine, with the usual easy going rythm and lighter tone of most of his books, but it has a big issue in my mind, and that is the Lion itself. 40k Lion is really different compared to 30k Lion, which is fine, I'm not opposed to the direction they are pushing his character development, unfortunately the transition of his personality and change of heart is not handled well. From the subjective point of view of the Lion, there's very little time from the moment he's thrown into the warpstorm during his duel with Luther and the moment he awakens and shortly after recovers his memories. He literally awakens as a different person. His sudden change is so radical that even his own fallen sons are incredulous at first. It feels forced and sudden, there's no self-reflection or moment of illumination, his miraculous conversion doesn't even involve falling from his horse on the road to Damascus. He's just a new person from the moment he meets Zabriel and recovers his memories. I find it a little strange that a book centered around the titular character's first foray into the 41st millenium shows so little nuance about his character development. Maybe that's the point and I missed it because I'm dumb. Welp, that's my hot take.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 11:41
|
|
|
Devorum posted:Thanks, everyone. I think I have decided on about 5 books. I feel like you might be thinking of a different book. Know No Fear is almost universally beloved as not just one of the best HH books but one of the best BL books ever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 12:14
|
|
|
Maybe he's thinking about Fear to tread, which is pretty garbo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 12:20
|
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:Maybe he's thinking about Fear to tread, which is pretty garbo. I could be. I know the one I grabbed after Prospero was several books later, but can't remember the exact name.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 12:24
|
|
|
Know No Fear was about the Ultramarines being backstabbed by the Word Bearers. It was very good. I have read basically none of the HH books (Know No Fear is one that I did read) and I didn't have any real trouble understanding the plot or enjoying what was happening. I probably would have gotten more out of it since I hadn't read about folks like Fafnir Rann or Inigo Pech before, but having delved Lexicanum quite a bit I knew the main players and the shape of the story so I had a pretty good sense of where things stood and where they were going.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 15:04
|
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:Finished Mike Brook's The Lion: Son of the Forest. It's mostly fine, with the usual easy going rythm and lighter tone of most of his books, but it has a big issue in my mind, and that is the Lion itself. 40k Lion is really different compared to 30k Lion, which is fine, I'm not opposed to the direction they are pushing his character development, unfortunately the transition of his personality and change of heart is not handled well. I am torn on this. I definitely felt this way during parts of my read-through but I also thought what if this book had been set during the scouring and started immediately after Caliban blew up (which it basically is from his viewpoint)? The Lion has gone through the incredibly traumatic events of the heresy culminating in the ultimate betrayal by his surrogate father and a sizable faction of his sons. It's an event jarring enough it's conceivable it kind of snapped him to reality and he had a serious come to Jesus moment and pretty much immediately regretted everything he did and did a complete 180. That kind of character development is plausible and does sometimes happen right after somebody goes through something huge like that and when you add in the actual events that he was just told 10k years had passed and the bottom dropped out of his sense of place in the universe it isn't inconceivable someone in his position wouldn't just immediately reverse course. Like I've known people who had serious estrangement from a parent and the instant they die suddenly realized how stupid the whole thing was and had an immediate change of heart. But I also agree a longer period of uncertainty and character growth probably would have came across better. Overall though I really do like that he has ended up so different. Besides falling to chaos I can't think of any primarch having even half this much character development and I think this completely changed Lion has much more interesting implications for the galaxy than the same ol hard charging absolutist we had during 30k.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 18:04
|
|
|
I generally dislike books written from multiple points of view (like, more then 3) so I was kind of put off by KNFs style at first but it grabbed me hard after a couple of chapters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 18:46
|
|
|
Pretty much any primarch now with a feasible chance of coming back is going to be willing to go "We can do better/we need to fix this poo poo" as they fight against the entrenched imperial powers so thats probably what a big tension point is going to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
And the more of them come back with that mindset, the more the Imperium's entrenched position of fascism and control starts to waver. Didn't Guilliman already put down a coup from the High Lords of Terra? One Primarch returning was bad enough news for them. Two coming back could be a disaster. If they get to three, and they're all on the same page, big changes may start coming the Imperium's way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
Leman would absolutely lose his poo poo on the inquisition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 00:45
|
|
|
I'm enjoying The Damnation of Pythos way more than I thought I would. I'm a sucker for "colonists losing their mind on a hosed planet" in general, but the gradual transformations and conversions into faith of various kinds is really fun too. I really enjoy stories about the propagation of the Lectitio Divinitatus and the future Imperial Creed because they often focus on mortals of lower class and stature, and that's always a nice change from constant astartes and primarchs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
I really liked it too, though I'm a sucker for Iron Hands stories. It really shows how Fetrus Manus' disdain of weakness failed his sons and how his death warped them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 03:03
|
|
|
Enjoying the Vorbis Conspiracy a lot. It seems like they've decided to have a Genestealer Cult as apossible xenos menace and that's really fun. There's one POV character they reference as having an odd scar every story he's in and it'd be really interesting if he was messed up in the cult by birth but otherwise free of the taint.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 14:13
|
|
|
DaysBefore posted:Are the Gotrek and Felix books still good after they switch to the second author? Almost done with the last Mike King installment I liked them, they skip ahead to G&F coming back into the Old World after adventuring in Ind. Felix is trying to come to terms with how old he is in a way that felt true to the character.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:Leman would absolutely lose his poo poo on the inquisition. Parts of it. The big flashy Inquisitors who go around killing xenos with retinues made up of assassin cults, learned psykers, and cyber monkeys he'd probably love.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2023 14:25
|
|