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Willa Rogers posted:
Sorry, mistook this as a reference to the genital checks proposed for youth sports by the conservative movement.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:43
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I think you either misunderstood some context or don't realize that this doesn't occur only in Republican areas. Locker-room undressing is standard at just about every school & athletic facility in the country, although there are usually a few nods to privacy barriers for those who require them.
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Gyges posted:While pervy old guys were probably among the most staunch advocates, the ridiculously long tradition of naked swimming in America was it's own force. That's how it was when the adults were kids, and how it was when their parents were kids. Ain't nothing never come of it before, and by god we'll keep doing it that way until...we have to have co-ed pools now? Why the hell are these boys naked!? Britain, too. During the 19th century there was a long conflict between middle class prudes who disapproved of male public nudity versus people who recognized that for the working class nude swimming was pretty much the only option they had, given the utterly miserable state of sanitation and available facilities for anyone who wasn't well off. When London finally passed ordinances requiring swimsuits, Boy Scout founder Robert Baden-Powell wrote a number of blistering editorials about how awful it was, to touch back to the point about old pervs being also invested in it.
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Apr 22, 2023 19:44
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Dubar posted:What is the functional purpose of having children undress in a communal space anyway? It seems like the stripping of privacy and imposed shame are the point. That experience was probably the first clear memory I can have of anxiety, and that is without any added baggage from dysphoria While just hanging around *naked* was never a thing in the US, historically it was less of a big deal to change clothes or bath in single gender group settings because privacy was at a priemum and it continued because of Tradition when privacy was easier and cheaper to have. Also, since you never really had privacy at home much either due to living in a single room or very, very few rooms there wasn't as big of a shock to having no privacy in group settings either.
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Apr 22, 2023 20:12
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In marine corps boot camp, the first 48 hours or so are designed to be as dehumanizing as possible, and one of those things includes being given 5 minutes to get through a shower with hundreds of other recruits, and you're packed in there so tight that you're practically sharing showerheads.
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Apr 22, 2023 20:14
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Dubar posted:What is the functional purpose of having children undress in a communal space anyway? It seems like the stripping of privacy and imposed shame are the point. That experience was probably the first clear memory I can have of anxiety, and that is without any added baggage from dysphoria The functional reason was largely just how much cheaper it is to do things that way, and also because cooking down and chilling together after a game while changing and getting cleaned up is actually really nice when around people you like anyway. It also potentially helps people from extremely prudish families become more comfortable with the idea of conditional nudity as opposed to it being an absolute taboo, something that is good for the health of society and practicallly required for a lot of rather nice experiences to be feasible later in life and not just restricted to the very wealthy. If you're not completely afflicted by the weird prudish body shaming complex that does, admittedly, currently pervade American culture, it seems like a perfectly reasonable thing.
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Apr 22, 2023 21:24
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Queering Wheel posted:Oh my god the clip is great LOL Once in a while I think to myself that there is a reasonable debate to have about transgender folks, sports and what the rules should be to compete as a women. Then I remember that people like this exist and there’s no room for any nuance with bigots.
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Apr 22, 2023 22:00
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Professor Beetus posted:In marine corps boot camp, the first 48 hours or so are designed to be as dehumanizing as possible, and one of those things includes being given 5 minutes to get through a shower with hundreds of other recruits, and you're packed in there so tight that you're practically sharing showerheads. At the academy Indoc was heavily marine corp influenced, we undressed folded our clothes, held then above our heads, and walked a circuit into and then out of the shower. Did you know five guys can piss into a stall toilet at the same time? Some of the US locker room stuff is definitely WWII and Vietnam military culture holdover.
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Apr 22, 2023 22:20
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I think we're getting away from the locker room in question, from Gumball Gumption's post. The traumatized girls were showering after a gym class. Which, again, is something that I don't know anyone to have ever done in either High School or Middle School. And my High School had 2,500 students. Maybe it's different elsewhere in the country, but I find it hard to believe people are more in need of a shower than post gym class in the Florida summer. Now in the article it says they were showering after swim class, which is totally common according to them. How they had time between periods to shower and change is beyond me, but lets take them at their word. Here's the main point of trauma: quote:The letter went on to say that the girls were surprised to see the transgender student in the locker room, although it additionally notes that they knew that the student identifies as transgender and had used girls’ bathrooms before. The girls proceeded to use the shower without interacting with the transgender student. I'm beyond "poo poo that didn't happen" on this. However even if we accept everything they say as 100% fact, their complaint is that while in swimsuits a trans student in a swimsuit talked to them. What trauma. At least they came up with a better fantasy interaction than that one Tory MP who claimed a trans woman assaulted her with the phrase "I'm going to wipe my hands on my penis" after they found the hand dryers didn't work.
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Apr 22, 2023 22:53
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If it was a swim class the freshmen were taking: of course you shower after it. We were expected to shower after gym in both junior high & high school (eta: 5000 students). The time factor was built into the length of the gym class. Teens can be pungent, as any parent (or hs teacher) will attest.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:01
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We were never given extra time to account for showers in gym class. You got 5 minutes at the end to change, and then there were 5 or10 minutes, I forget which, between classes. The size of the building and the mass of students made it so even if you rushed from one class to the next it was always cutting it close.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:10
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Showering after swim class/swim team is like a 2 minute rinse in your suit to get the chlorine off. What a dumb non-issue.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:16
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Forcing people to be naked together in a mandatory setting seems pretty problematic. But the USA's prudish-ness leads to a "nudity is inherently sexual" attitude which I think is hosed up too. With our culture and institutions being what they are though, geez...
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Apr 22, 2023 23:47
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yeah thats no more naked than in the public pool, its literaly magic thinking about the sign on the locker room door being a protective ward against the Y chromosome
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Apr 23, 2023 02:31
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BRJurgis posted:Forcing people to be naked together in a mandatory setting seems pretty problematic. But the USA's prudish-ness leads to a "nudity is inherently sexual" attitude which I think is hosed up too. With our culture and institutions being what they are though, geez... The hosed-up part is taking away people’s bodily autonomy and exposing them to brutalization at the hands of their peers, the same as everything bad about high school. And that’s the part conservatives like about it. It’s the same reason they don’t like sex education: telling kids they control their own bodies and giving them understanding of sex abuse and other things that take away their control of themselves, which undermines the entire conservative worldview.
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Apr 23, 2023 02:56
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As always, conservatives brains are completely broken by the existence of trans boys/men. It leads to them passing laws forcing transmasculine people, with beards, muscles, deep voices, etc, to use the women's restroom. You know, the thing they claim to be trying to avoid. Ultimately, it reveals their underlying motivation, which is their continued sexualization of children. Can't have AFAB girls becoming boys, because then the pedophile freaks who comprise the American right wing would be...*gulp*...gay. Like most conservative social positions, it's projection through and through. It's loving sickening. There is no convincing, compromising with, or educating these people. The only hope is to make them irrelevant through any means possible. forbidden dialectics fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 08:21
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It's because they almost entirely are unaware that trans men exist. No matter how many times it's brought up, it just goes in one ear and out the other. It's the same thing as it was with gay men and lesbians. The main thrust of their issues with those who are not cis-heteronormative is how it relates to their dicks. Lesbians are, generally, hot, and not an issue. Trans men are just other dudes(they almost certainly can't fathom trans men who are into men) trying to get chicks. Gays and Trans women however are subversive agents of Satan, just looking to "trick" them into not being manly men. TERFs seem to fall into the same issues, but stemming from a fear of lesbians being tricked just like their straight male counterparts. Though admittedly there does seem to be traumatic fear of male violence mixed in for TERFs. You also tend to find that among conservative fundamentalist women, they're much more vocal about how evil lesbians are than their male counterparts. Everything else that they throw out are their justifications that they wildly spin for themselves and others so they aren't just arguing that we should treat people horribly because, "those people make me feel funny inside". The amount of people operating from a sincere view that everyone who isn't cis and straight are equally terrible seem to be nearly as much of a minority as trans people themselves.
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Apr 23, 2023 08:53
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It’s like that one high school wrestler who was forced to compete against girls after transitioning from policies requiring students to compete as the sex listed on their birth certificate, creating the exact situation they all claim to fear where a man has an advantage against female competitors from higher muscle mass etc. But every time he was brought up, they assumed he was instead amab and claiming to be a trans woman and then started ranting about how that was bad.
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Apr 23, 2023 09:23
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Gyges posted:It's because they almost entirely are unaware that trans men exist. No matter how many times it's brought up, it just goes in one ear and out the other. It's the same thing as it was with gay men and lesbians. They're aware. Willful ignorance is not ignorance. Don't attribute things that are clearly the byproduct of active malice to unawareness. It is more efficient to take about evil male perverts hunting your daughters when trying to paint transpeople as child molesters, so that is what they go with.
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Apr 23, 2023 09:39
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Lol https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1650116256484163584
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Apr 23, 2023 13:42
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Republicans can't kill the Dad in their own heads without invalidating their own existence as Big Daddy.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:33
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DarkCrawler posted:They're aware. Willful ignorance is not ignorance. Don't attribute things that are clearly the byproduct of active malice to unawareness. It is more efficient to take about evil male perverts hunting your daughters when trying to paint transpeople as child molesters, so that is what they go with. Can confirm TERFs and conservatives are definitely aware, trans men are just constantly misgendered and infantilized, so it tends to fly under the radar. The current moral panic about "social contagion" is focused entirely on preventing young, impressionable, delusional girls from ruining their beautiful bodies and becoming gross, pathetic imitations of men. And on the more TERFy side of things, they talk about us being misguided, self-hating, mutilated "lost sisters." As a trans man myself, I would definitely appreciate it if allies understood this and didn't just think we're ignored and never directly attacked, because we very much are.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:55
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In my experience being stuck working around hardcore chuds, yeah; Trans Men are tomboys who were tricked and coerced into transitioning instead of letting them grow out of the phase and go on to become the love interest of a country music song where she's just one of the guys, but with boobs.
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Apr 23, 2023 15:36
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DarkCrawler posted:They're aware. Willful ignorance is not ignorance. Don't attribute things that are clearly the byproduct of active malice to unawareness. It is more efficient to take about evil male perverts hunting your daughters when trying to paint transpeople as child molesters, so that is what they go with. Correct. The existence of trans men doesn't impact their rhetoric in the slightest, because ultimately, they want all trans people to stop existing entirely.
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Apr 23, 2023 16:47
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Fister Roboto posted:Correct. The existence of trans men doesn't impact their rhetoric in the slightest, because ultimately, they want all trans people to stop existing entirely. when a trans man starts getting close to breaking through professional (say the NFL, MLB, ect.) than we will hear about how it's not right. I agree with you but I just wanted to add this wrinkle.
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Apr 23, 2023 16:53
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Young Freud posted:Republicans can't kill the Dad in their own heads without invalidating their own existence as Big Daddy. Heavily armed monsters patrolling the remains of a libertarian hellhole?
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Apr 23, 2023 16:53
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Would you kindly phrase that in a way that is accessible in the real wor-- You know what, I'm with Niles on this, that's a weird take, though I'm not familiar with killing the <foo> in one's head rhetoric's successes 
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Apr 23, 2023 17:01
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Young Freud posted:Republicans can't kill the Dad in their own heads without invalidating their own existence as Big Daddy. Post/username combo I remember reading some books by the linguist George Lakoff about metaphor as used in American politics around the time of the 2008 election, and the part that sticks with me is the strong conservative focus on obedience to legitimate (fatherly) authority and the internalization of harsh rules as the means to survive. Part of why they hate assistance to the weak is that they believe the only way to survive is to obey rules that order the universe, so assistance to others won’t work and prevents the weak from learning the rules. The big assumption is that the universe is harsh but fair in how these rules work, so anyone who succeeds followed the rules and anyone who failed did a bad job following the rules. The universe and a disciplinarian father are identical to them. Trump is kind of interesting from that point of view because he behaves like a harsh father but clearly doesn’t believe in anything except himself, so it’s like he’s cheating when he goes up against some ideologue moron.
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Apr 23, 2023 17:12
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Mooseontheloose posted:when a trans man starts getting close to breaking through professional (say the NFL, MLB, ect.) than we will hear about how it's not right. I agree with you but I just wanted to add this wrinkle. Isn't there a trans dude MMA fighter who nobody wants to fight because they don't want to risk being beaten by a "girl"? I'm not into that scene but I thought I heard about it somewhere.
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Apr 23, 2023 17:33
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Fister Roboto posted:Isn't there a trans dude MMA fighter who nobody wants to fight because they don't want to risk being beaten by a "girl"? I'm not into that scene but I thought I heard about it somewhere. Boxer, but yeah. https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/31662608/boxer-patricio-manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight
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Apr 23, 2023 17:42
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The GOP really is a pathetic lot
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Apr 23, 2023 19:42
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Most of bigoted rhetoric around transgender people is based in misogyny and homophobia. They come down on trasngender women so hard because they have "betrayed" masculinity and "tempted" straight men. Prominent terf JKR herself has gone into how she thinks transgender men are just tomboys who were misguided by adults who desperately want to do top surgery on them.
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Apr 23, 2023 22:35
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If an even semi-masculine GOP politician emerged and started going all in, calling Trump a fat lazy piece of poo poo who's never been in a fight or fired a weapon, it would be interesting to see play out. I tend to think any old racist washed up MMA fighter could loving clean house in the GOP by just physically threatening and bullying anyone who crossed him. Hard to imagine Trump's base rallying to his defense if someone like Matt Best suddenly decided to jump in and out-Trump Trump. Just lie about everything and wear a shirt with that graphic of Trump playing tennis in his tighty whities. Call him a disgusting limp dick beta who has to pay porn stars for sex. Call him out for being an absentee father and for being a fake Christian who dodged the draft. I think that combo would actually sink him. I know the chud base can't feel cognitive dissonance but the one thing Trump hasn't encountered is someone who could undoubtedly beat the poo poo out of him who lacks the shame to bring that fact up every day, all day.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:25
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:If an even semi-masculine GOP politician emerged and started going all in, calling Trump a fat lazy piece of poo poo who's never been in a fight or fired a weapon, it would be interesting to see play out. I tend to think any old racist washed up MMA fighter could loving clean house in the GOP by just physically threatening and bullying anyone who crossed him. Hard to imagine Trump's base rallying to his defense if someone like Matt Best suddenly decided to jump in and out-Trump Trump. I think age also plays a major part in this. Boomers are mostly keeping the Republican party alive at this point and they've been conditioned since birth that their politicians should be elder statesmen presumably older than them. It also fits in with the whole father figure symbolic of traditional values. Now, the only one close to that is Trump and he's probably going to be the last, because they're now most of them old and there's no more "fathers" left older than them. While a muscled-out, racist, former MMA fighter Andrew Tate wannabe would appeal to the groypers and incels, he'd look like a loving punk right now, especially if he comes for the King and misses.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:52
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In a development that should shock nobody, it turns out that the recent wave of legislation rolling back child labor laws is all the product of a single right-wing policy shop sending pre-packaged legislation around.Washington Post: The conservative campaign to rewrite child labor laws posted:At 4:52 a.m., Tuesday, the state’s Senate approved a bill to allow children as young as 14 to work night shifts and 15 year-olds on assembly lines. The measure, which still must pass the Iowa House, is among several the Foundation for Government Accountability is maneuvering through state legislatures. The Florida-based think tank and its lobbying arm, the Opportunity Solutions Project, have found remarkable success among Republicans to relax regulations that prevent children from working long hours in dangerous conditions. And they are gaining traction at a time the Biden administration is scrambling to enforce existing labor protections for children. The FGA achieved its biggest victory in March, playing a central role in designing a new Arkansas law to eliminate work permits and age verification for workers younger than 16. Its sponsor, state Rep. Rebecca Burkes (R), said in a hearing that the legislation “came to me from the Foundation [for] Government Accountability.”
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Apr 24, 2023 01:53
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:If an even semi-masculine GOP politician emerged and started going all in, calling Trump a fat lazy piece of poo poo who's never been in a fight or fired a weapon, it would be interesting to see play out. I tend to think any old racist washed up MMA fighter could loving clean house in the GOP by just physically threatening and bullying anyone who crossed him. Hard to imagine Trump's base rallying to his defense if someone like Matt Best suddenly decided to jump in and out-Trump Trump. Trump would just lean into his "I'm a billionaire" myth and counter that Hypothetica MMA Guy is a roided up moron who gets his rear end kicked for a living and doesn't have a fraction of Trump's claimed net worth. "Folks, running for office is probably the smartest thing this meathead has ever done, because at least now he's not getting punched in the head all night, but I gotta tell you folks, he was a loser in UFC. His record wasn't even that good." And his base would eat that up because it's a lot easier to project "Hey, I could maybe be rich one day." onto a fantasy figure than "Hey, I could be friggin' ripped if I dedicated myself wholly to exercise and proper nutrition." Trump appeals to his base's lifestyle (or desired lifestyle at any rate) in a way that other guys can't.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:55
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The issue is the fantasy that Trump represents isn't being rich. It's the fantasy of being able to piss people off and be an rear end in a top hat while being immune to any consequences or responsibility. His base will never hold him accountable because that's the point: he isn't.
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Apr 24, 2023 02:01
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The argument for nominating someone other than Trump is that Trump is unelectable because of 1/6, but it's hard to make that argument when Trump was president before and half your voters think he won in 2020 and 1/6 was either antifa or good. Some Andrew Tate type of guy could win the groypers (half of whom are policy advisors for Ron Desantis anyway) but much of Trump's appeal is being Donald Trump.
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Apr 24, 2023 03:26
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/07/nancy-pelosi-says-clapping-trump-state-union-wasnt-sarcastic/2806817002/ https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/07/congress-syria-airstrikes-trump (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 24, 2023 05:26
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Yeah, the idea that Pelosi is somehow making sick dunks on Trump has always been intensely cringe liberal fantasy.I AM GRANDO posted:Post/username combo I've said it before, but a shitload of right wing rhetoric makes sense when you substitute 'God' for 'My rich abusive dad'.
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Apr 24, 2023 07:12
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Prism posted:Boxer, but yeah. Looks like they just fought & won a boxing match about a month ago? 
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Apr 24, 2023 12:56
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