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Put the 30mm cannon on a drone 
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Apr 23, 2023 23:06
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Hyperlynx posted:To back up for a sec, planechat started because of this: It's a big decision insofar as it is a major deviation from present policy and intentions and even if it was approved, a long process on top of that. Given that it's such a long term project, might as well get started making the case sooner rather than later.
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Apr 23, 2023 23:06
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I imagine UA's logic is "if we have a credible air force, we can in theory do counterstrikes and achieve actual air superiority, which may get Russia to sit the gently caress down and give up on the war." Widespread AA has a similar effect but presumably the Russians COULD do air missions, they'd just be horribly risky, so the idea would be that this changes Russia's thinking from "we would prefer not to" to "we actually cannot, because UA air will intercept our air." e: It would also be childishly simple to sever the bridge coming into Crimea with even one good air mission, but I'm not sure it's otherwise possible for Ukraine to threaten it unless they retake enough space on the Azov coast to feel secure bringing down HIMARS.
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Apr 23, 2023 23:29
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ded posted:The A-10 should be replaced by drones tbh. Why put pilot lives at risk when we have proven tech that works well. How many drones are needed to hoist a GAU-8/A Avenger autocannon? Beaten by my kind of ape :angry:
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Apr 23, 2023 23:38
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:How many drones are needed to hoist a GAU-8/A Avenger autocannon? man Up 2 is real dark poo poo
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Apr 23, 2023 23:46
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Hyperlynx posted:Given that basically everyone agrees that ground-based antiair is more important and more cost effective, I wonder why their Twitter is asking for planes. Ukraine isn’t proposing that they fund, resource, or train their own aviation maintenance program, for one.
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Apr 23, 2023 23:52
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ded posted:The A-10 should be replaced by drones tbh. Why put pilot lives at risk when we have proven tech that works well. 1. Fit A-10s with Tesla FSD systems 2. Set up a front company to sell them to the Russians as new Iranian drones. 3. Profit!
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Apr 23, 2023 23:53
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my kinda ape posted:Put the 30mm cannon on a drone A-11 Farthog
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Apr 24, 2023 00:13
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Make them drone planes for a 1 way journey. Let me go go out doing what they were bread for.
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Apr 24, 2023 00:17
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my kinda ape posted:Put the 30mm cannon on a drone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmkXw3GLZ64 Go to bed Dahir.
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Apr 24, 2023 00:18
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The Brrrt that everyone loves strikes a hollow, painful chord with me, because we were denied, and as we limped our trucks out of the fight, here comes the deep screech of those engines, and then the firing of those guns as we handed our wounded off. We were denied for hours, and after everyone is spent and bleeding, the loving B Team comes out with the A Team QB. A-10 sucks. I don't know for sure- I know gently caress all about costs and whatnot, but I know I felt way more comfortable I wouldn't get DU'd by AC130 than an A10. My guts says it would be better/cheaper platform for the same role the A10 currently provides, CAS when we own the sky.
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Apr 24, 2023 00:24
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While you nerds were watching the skies, the Ukrainians reportedly opened up a foothold in on the Dnipro. https://twitter.com/dominic00719779/status/1650268324796743682?s=46
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Apr 24, 2023 00:34
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pantslesswithwolves posted:While you nerds were watching the skies, the Ukrainians reportedly opened up a foothold in on the Dnipro. It is at best a diversion. They're there to make noise and force the Russians to do something about them. Once they do, Ukraine will attack somewhere else. It's not possible to sustain any kind of meaningful force there. It's all swamp and gunk. On the off chance that the Russians ignore them forever, they could become a force to secure the left bank for a pontoon bridge or something at which point Ukraine could start moving some legitimate forces over.
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Apr 24, 2023 00:40
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bulletsponge13 posted:A-10 sucks. I don't know for sure- I know gently caress all about costs and whatnot, but I know I felt way more comfortable I wouldn't get DU'd by AC130 than an A10. My guts says it would be better/cheaper platform for the same role the A10 currently provides, CAS when we own the sky. Edit: found FY21 numbers. standard.deviant fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 00:44
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Deteriorata posted:
haha it was a feint you only thought we were going to do something about it
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Apr 24, 2023 00:44
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Alan Smithee posted:haha it was a feint In a good plan feints become the main thrust if the enemy ignores it because it’s a feint.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:41
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mlmp08 posted:Ukraine isn’t proposing that they fund, resource, or train their own aviation maintenance program, for one. I'm not sure I follow, can you elaborate? Do you mean "given they haven't proposed that stuff, which would be necessary, this must just be PR"?
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Apr 24, 2023 01:53
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pantslesswithwolves posted:While you nerds were watching the skies, the Ukrainians reportedly opened up a foothold in on the Dnipro. Def Mon is saying all this excitement is a misinterpretation of ISW's reports. https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1649152253742182419
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Apr 24, 2023 02:15
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Hyperlynx posted:I'm not sure I follow, can you elaborate? Do you mean "given they haven't proposed that stuff, which would be necessary, this must just be PR"?
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Apr 24, 2023 02:17
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There usually constant reports of Ukraine on the left bank loving around but thats cause Russia pulled a long way back since the area is a swamp and almost impossible to attack through
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Apr 24, 2023 02:19
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Murgos posted:In a good plan feints become the main thrust if the enemy ignores it because it’s a feint. There's a single broken bridge leading to a swampy island that hosts 10 klicks of highway to the next bridge taking you off the island to the continent, and there's a fortified city across the 2nd bridge. So even if you would cross Dnepr over the broken bridge, you would get massacred for 10 kilometers before blown up with the second bridge while taking fire from the city on the far bank of Konka river...
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Apr 24, 2023 02:23
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:There's a single broken bridge leading to a swampy island that hosts 10 klicks of highway to the next bridge taking you off the island to the continent, and there's a fortified city across the 2nd bridge. So even if you would cross Dnepr over the broken bridge, you would get massacred for 10 kilometers before blown up with the second bridge while taking fire from the city on the far bank of Konka river... Fair enough. Wasn’t aware how bad the terrain is.
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Apr 24, 2023 03:36
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Hyperlynx posted:I'm not sure I follow, can you elaborate? Do you mean "given they haven't proposed that stuff, which would be necessary, this must just be PR"? It is easy to say you want a capability when you will not be the one to pay for it or maintain it. But if Ukraine was handed $500 million in credit they could use to buy anything and everything at a western arms market, I don’t think F-16s would even enter discussion compared with other munitions and arms.
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Apr 24, 2023 03:58
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Murgos posted:Fair enough. Wasn’t aware how bad the terrain is. ISW tonight writes about possible event of a Ukrainian counteroffensive across the seven active axes of current Russian operations: https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-23-2023
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Apr 24, 2023 04:23
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mlmp08 posted:It is easy to say you want a capability when you will not be the one to pay for it or maintain it. Right, absolutely. I had sort of assumed they were thinking along the lines of your second paragraph, though. An ep of War On The Rocks (https://warontherocks.libsyn.com/backing-ukraine-against-russia-with-colin-kahl-and-derek-chollet I think) discussed not sending F-16s because it's not cost effective, because there's only so much aid budget actually available, and I got the impression that this was something Ukraine are aware of as well; that they could theoretically have one F-16 or 146 Stinger missiles but not both, and so the second is the better option. And that, at least on some level, the Ukrainians are indeed involved in drawing up the shopping list. Put another way: they aren't paying for it in their own money, they're paying for it in opportunity cost, and I was pretty sure they're aware of that. Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 05:59
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After reading ISW report tonight I would run a counteroffensive in two phases: In Spring/Summer from Kupyansk all the way directly Eastward to reach the village of Bilolutsk cutting any North-South supply lines in Luhansk Oblast forcing Russia to withdraw beyond Aidar River and to the pre-operation contact line in this region. In the Fall Southward from Huliaipole and Vuhledar to the Azov Sea making the demotivated invaders retreat and negotiate a complete surrender of hostilities for their special operation.
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Apr 24, 2023 06:33
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One of the best recent discussions on Ukrainian air defense was on the Geopolitics Decanted podcast. https://geopolitics-decanted.simplecast.com/episodes/how-can-ukraine-survive-the-exhaustion-of-its-air-defense-stocks quote:Dmitri Alperovitch talks with Justin Bronk (Senior Research Fellow for Airpower and Technology at RUSI and Professor at Royal Norwegian Air Force Academy) and Dara Massicot (Russian military analyst at RAND) about the dire implications of the dwindling stocks of Ukrainian air defense interceptors and what can be done to solve that problem. My rough tl;dl: Ukrainian GBAD is running on empty, and there aren't enough Western systems to replace them at scale and in time. Justin makes a strong argument for a small quantity of Gripens with long-range Western (European) AA missiles being enough of an 'air force in being' threat that the VKS would continue to act very cautiously, because Russia can't replace its planes easily. Hannibal Rex fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 06:57
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my kinda ape posted:Put the 30mm cannon on a balloon and then it can double as the propulsion system
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Apr 24, 2023 14:16
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Hannibal Rex posted:One of the best recent discussions on Ukrainian air defense was on the Geopolitics Decanted podcast. Kinda loving weird how you have all these OSINT and International Relations dudes going "No, Ukraine doesn't know what they actually should want and the russians are way more capable than we've ever seen them be, I KNOW WHAT UKRAINE SHOULD WANT MORE THAN UKRAINE" Tl;dr: I'm calling bullshit.
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Apr 24, 2023 14:34
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Tunicate posted:For a change of pace, the CIA decides to secretly back a communist revolution
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Apr 24, 2023 14:37
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At one point the US argued that Ukraine should want to prep for imminent invasion and Ukraine said the US was being alarmist.
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Apr 24, 2023 14:38
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GBAD
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Apr 24, 2023 14:39
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mlmp08 posted:At one point the US argued that Ukraine should want to prep for imminent invasion and Ukraine said the US was being alarmist. There's no evidence on either side to back this up, but it seems a pretty reasonable hypothesis 
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Apr 24, 2023 15:18
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd argue this was probably a coordinated tactic to allow Russia an easy offramp prior to there invasion. Among other things, the US being so vocal was intended to let Putin to walk away from the buildup with the win of making the Great Satan again look like it was an alarmist war monger. Ukraine's reluctance to publicly entertain the threat helped stymie a panic which could have advanced Putin's goals before he even committed his forces, destabilizing both the political system and economy. Given how quickly the Ukrainians responded to the invasion, I don't think they were particularly unprepared. They didn't want to give the appearance of preparing to avoid giving Russia an excuse, but there was plenty going on out of sight.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:20
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There are a hilariously low number of Gripens that have even been manufactured, let alone spares to send any to Ukraine. It would be better to send F-16s
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Apr 24, 2023 15:24
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd argue this was probably a coordinated tactic to allow Russia an easy offramp prior to there invasion. Among other things, the US being so vocal was intended to let Putin to walk away from the buildup with the win of making the Great Satan again look like it was an alarmist war monger. Ukraine's reluctance to publicly entertain the threat helped stymie a panic which could have advanced Putin's goals before he even committed his forces, destabilizing both the political system and economy. I’m not so glass half full about the opening weeks of the war. Ukraine fought tenaciously and with some unexpected tactics (flooding their own towns with a dam to buy time), but I don’t buy that it was all part of a Ukrainian pre-planned coordinated response. Kharkiv held on by a thread and suffered immense damage. The JFO was well prepared to fight in the east, but Ukraine was effectively caught off guard by other axes of attack. I’ve also seen the argument, usually from the stance of pro-Russia cheerleaders that the war could have or would have been avoided entirely if the US didn’t devilishly/fraudulently warn of Russia’s preparations, but I don’t buy it. RUSI wrote about the opening weeks of the war, and their take was generally that Russia achieved surprise, but was so effective they surprised their own staff and troops, which is a problem. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 15:44
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd argue this was probably a coordinated tactic to allow Russia an easy offramp prior to there invasion. Among other things, the US being so vocal was intended to let Putin to walk away from the buildup with the win of making the Great Satan again look like it was an alarmist war monger. Ukraine's reluctance to publicly entertain the threat helped stymie a panic which could have advanced Putin's goals before he even committed his forces, destabilizing both the political system and economy. Eh, interviews with Ukrainian commanders ive seen from the early days do not at all suggest that this was the case. If it was a coordinated tactic, it wasnt coordinated with the actual soldiers on the ground anyways
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Apr 24, 2023 15:48
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Even at the time I don't think anyone thought Russia would gun for Kyiv or anything, they figured it would be a case of taking a bite out of the east. Instead it looks like Russia's actual goal was at best everything east of the Dnipro, at worst literally the entire country just becoming Russia.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:53
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd argue this was probably a coordinated tactic to allow Russia an easy offramp prior to there invasion. Among other things, the US being so vocal was intended to let Putin to walk away from the buildup with the win of making the Great Satan again look like it was an alarmist war monger. Ukraine's reluctance to publicly entertain the threat helped stymie a panic which could have advanced Putin's goals before he even committed his forces, destabilizing both the political system and economy. Publically calling the shots was a fairly risky gamble with the US's international reputation, yeah. Ended up making the US look great but I'd have preferred no invasion at the cost of looking like idiots
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Apr 24, 2023 15:57
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Ukraine lost the territory it did in Kherson at least because there Russia's undermining efforts re: traitors paid off and one of their paid agents allowed a bridge to remain standing that should have been exploded
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Apr 24, 2023 16:50
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