|
This is Paizo thinking WotC is still going to try and find a way to come at them about the OGL. They also get to sell some new hardcovers, but this seems like a preemptive move. The Starfinder guys get very annoyed if you ask about Starfinder 2e, but this move feels like it makes a new Starfinder edition a priority.
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 03:43 |
|
|
HidaO-Win posted:This is Paizo thinking WotC is still going to try and find a way to come at them about the OGL. I think it’s less “we are afraid of WOTC” and more “we have this new license, we need to release our own stuff under it. Also, if we’re going to do that, it means we need to excise the last few bits of OGL cruft we have left”
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 20:36
|
|
|
As much as anything else it's a way of doing some spring cleaning. Assure everyone who just bought the core rulebook that it's still going to be valid, but then do a soft reset on a set of books that they own outright and are licensed to nobody but themselves. Which means every splatbook and adventure path after this can be published without mentioning Wizards Of The Coast on the back page.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 20:56
|
|
|
Death to Ability Scores has happened?!?!?!?!? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 21:50
|
|
|
Alignment leaving is hypothetically nice but considering that PF2e has quite a few alignment locked character options I find it hard to believe this is more than a quick rebrand of the system.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
HidaO-Win posted:This is Paizo thinking WotC is still going to try and find a way to come at them about the OGL. I want a Starfinder 2e.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
Taciturn Tactician posted:Alignment leaving is hypothetically nice but considering that PF2e has quite a few alignment locked character options I find it hard to believe this is more than a quick rebrand of the system. Honestly, I'd accept just getting rid of alignment damage. That whole system is more fiddly than it's worth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
Pinwiz11 posted:Death to Ability Scores has happened?!?!?!?!? No? In what way would that not be an entirely different system?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:14
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:No? In what way would that not be an entirely different system? I was only half listening to the stream, so I'm not sure if they actually got rid of them or were just strongly considering it, but they would just be getting rid of the 3-18 number, your stat is just your modifier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
Taciturn Tactician posted:Alignment leaving is hypothetically nice but considering that PF2e has quite a few alignment locked character options I find it hard to believe this is more than a quick rebrand of the system. The only alignment locked character options are Champions and Clerics to specific deities; locks which are perfectly adequately handled without the 9 point alignment grid but instead with the existing tenet/anathema rules.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:20
|
|
|
Yeah, it was implied that instead of STR 16 (+3) it would now be STR +3.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
OH okay that's different I thought we were talking about removing Strength as a concept or something
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:45
|
|
|
I wonder how that works when you would get to 19 in a stat? Normally after 18 it takes 2 bumps to increase from +4 to +5.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:48
|
|
|
Pinwiz11 posted:Yeah, it was implied that instead of STR 16 (+3) it would now be STR +3. I seriously don't understand how d20 systems have kept this since 3rd edition. I'm glad I haven't been able to find the core book anywhere! Now I'll just preorder the new one. Is there a recap of what was said during the stream anywhere? Agreeing that a starfinder 2 would own, it seems like an interesting game but I just can't go back to that iteration of d20.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:49
|
|
|
Wonder how they do this. As like unless they change the ability score increase math after +4(18) it's still gonna take two skillups to get to +5(20). and it's cleaner to make it +1 stat than getting into half modifiers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:I seriously don't understand how d20 systems have kept this since 3rd edition. I think it's very telling that in the FAQ under "will this effect Starfinder" the answer is "not yet"
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 22:54
|
|
|
Pinwiz11 posted:Yeah, it was implied that instead of STR 16 (+3) it would now be STR +3. Doesn't investing in these yield less at lower levels tho? Like STR +5 becomes STR 19 instead of 20? How will they translate that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:02
|
|
|
I actually bothered to spend money on the CRB, APG, GMG, and such in the past few months and I am stoked. It's good to have a new jumping on point for new players and to be able to be even more stand-alone from WotC because seriously gently caress WotC.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:04
|
|
|
people on the paizo forums are apoplectic about alignment being removed not understanding that this doesn't radically alter the cosmology of the setting
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
Ok yes, they are changing ability score to just be ability modifiers, will still take 2 boosts to go from +4 to +5. https://twitch.tv/videos/1804327205?t=3191s
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:11
|
|
|
On the Roll For Combat stream, Erik Mona said that classes that require alignments will basically just use Edicts and Anathemas, and there will be Holy and Unholy for things too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:17
|
|
|
Getting rid of the ability scores and just making them modifiers makes sense, scores really aren't used for anything, and you don't roll stats in pathfinder 2e anyway. The real question is are they going to put a good index in the new edition!? I would buy a copy for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:people on the paizo forums are apoplectic about alignment being removed not understanding that this doesn't radically alter the cosmology of the setting Erik Mona specified the Outer Planes were not going to be changing. The 4e D&D edition change radically altered their Outer Planes, so those of us who remember that debacle are still quite wary over such things. (FWIW, WotC reverted back to the old structure for 5e, so even they went back on the idea.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 23:20
|
|
|
Alignment is fun for cosmology, because then you get cool poo poo like Devils vs. Demons Blood War stuff, but breaks down very quickly when applied to PCs or even mortal NPCs I do want to see how they handle the Champion in the absence of Alignment before I start patting Paizo on the back though. I like 5e's Oath system for Paladins where you just need to adhere to your Oath's tenets and Alignment is basically just flavor text and would hope Paizo goes for something like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 02:12
|
|
|
gurragadon posted:Getting rid of the ability scores and just making them modifiers makes sense, scores really aren't used for anything, and you don't roll stats in pathfinder 2e anyway. Blockhouse posted:people on the paizo forums are apoplectic about alignment being removed not understanding that this doesn't radically alter the cosmology of the setting ------------------------------------------------------------ I'm gearing up to run two groups-- one Extinction Curse and one Stolen Fate. Anyone who played in or GMed either of those have any recommendations? Mostly new players, but some 5e experience and everyone's on-point. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Apr 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 02:35
|
|
|
Chevy Slyme posted:The only alignment locked character options are Champions and Clerics to specific deities; locks which are perfectly adequately handled without the 9 point alignment grid but instead with the existing tenet/anathema rules. This is not true. Off the top of my head, the Red Mantis Assassin archetype is avaialble to only Lawful Evil characters, the Hellknight and Hellknight Signifier archtypes are only available to Lawful characters, and at least one undead related archetype is available only to Evil characters. These things can be changed, obviously, but it's not just Champions and Clerics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Alignment is fun for cosmology, because then you get cool poo poo like Devils vs. Demons Blood War stuff, but breaks down very quickly when applied to PCs or even mortal NPCs All of the flavors of Paladin have specific Tenets and Anathema that are literally baked into the class and function in place of alignment just fine. Taciturn Tactician posted:This is not true. Off the top of my head, the Red Mantis Assassin archetype is avaialble to only Lawful Evil characters, the Hellknight and Hellknight Signifier archtypes are only available to Lawful characters, and at least one undead related archetype is available only to Evil characters. These things can be changed, obviously, but it's not just Champions and Clerics. As with the Champion, Red Mantis Assassin's are restricted to being worshipers of Achakek, which, again, anathema and tenets are pretty clearly right there. Same for the Hellknight subclasses. As for undead archetypes... Lich doesn't actually require an evil character... it just requires some pretty evil acts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 02:52
|
|
|
For the purposes of a Ranger's Twinned Takedown, would a gauntlet count as a wielded weapon?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 03:10
|
|
|
If you're using two gauntlet then yep! Twin Takedown just requires two weapons in different hands. Gauntlet are 1h melee weapons. [Edit] Super glad they're getting rid of ability scores and alignment!
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 03:14
|
|
|
I like alignment but it is weird sometimes. Playing the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG I was trying to stay CG for Ataza, but most of the chaotic options were awful -- just being rude for no reason. A cranky teenager's idea of "freedom". It would be like: You see a beggar. Do you: Give him a coin? (good) Flip him the bird? (chaotic) Kick him? (Evil) Arrest him for vagrancy? (Lawful) Like WTF the only "don't be an rear end in a top hat" option is Good, so I kept slipping toward neutral good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 03:27
|
|
|
Chevy Slyme posted:All of the flavors of Paladin have specific Tenets and Anathema that are literally baked into the class and function in place of alignment just fine. Achakek worshippers can be Neutral Evil and Lawful Neutral as well as Lawful Evil, but Red Mantis specifically requires LE, so it's a requirement on top of divine anathema stuff. Also, I wasn't talking about Lich, Corpse Tender and Undead Master both require an evil alignment, I presume because both involve Commanding undead and the Command Undead feat has a requirement for an Evil alignment, even on top of requiring a Harmful Font. Again, I'm not saying these are unfixable issues that can't be changed if alignment was removed, but my point is that currently, alignment does have mechanical meaning beyond simply gating your deity or your tenent for Cleric and Champion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 03:43
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:I like alignment but it is weird sometimes. Playing the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG I was trying to stay CG for Ataza, but most of the chaotic options were awful -- just being rude for no reason. A cranky teenager's idea of "freedom". I liked doing my Lawful Good Angel playthrough in that game because every Good option was just trying not to pointlessly be a dick and Lawful often is the "do the pragmatically correct thing"
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
alignment is cool, shame
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 04:16
|
|
|
There is of course nothing to stop you specifying your character's general alignment (in the same way that there's nothing stopping you specifying your character's Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). It just won't have an effect mechanically. And for the majority of players (saving exceptions discussed in this thread already) it already didn't. The idea of someone being "mechanically evil" was already a bit weird, honestly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 05:36
|
|
|
Taciturn Tactician posted:Achakek worshippers can be Neutral Evil and Lawful Neutral as well as Lawful Evil, but Red Mantis specifically requires LE, so it's a requirement on top of divine anathema stuff. Also, I wasn't talking about Lich, Corpse Tender and Undead Master both require an evil alignment, I presume because both involve Commanding undead and the Command Undead feat has a requirement for an Evil alignment, even on top of requiring a Harmful Font. Sure, I guess my larger point was that even most of those alignment gated archetypes already have very clear ties to a basic tenet/anathema set that can easily slot in as a replacement. It strikes me as a nonissue.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 05:41
|
|
|
Lamuella posted:There is of course nothing to stop you specifying your character's general alignment (in the same way that there's nothing stopping you specifying your character's Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). It just won't have an effect mechanically. And for the majority of players (saving exceptions discussed in this thread already) it already didn't. The idea of someone being "mechanically evil" was already a bit weird, honestly. in what way is it weird
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 05:46
|
|
|
sugar free jazz posted:in what way is it weird To me at on its face the concept of the universe being mechanically different based on internal motivations is just one that's difficult to work into how I play games. That's as opposed to the universe behaving differently based on the choices I make. Obviously it works well for some people and some classes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 06:05
|
|
|
It should be said that "alignment" damage is still going to be around, it'll just be a more binary holy/unholy system it seems
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 08:02
|
|
|
I wonder what they'll replace Protection with. It was probably the best
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 08:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 03:43 |
|
|
Is there a bulleted list of what changes have been announced so far? All I know so far is the Alignment removal, the ability score change, and I think I saw something about Aasimar and Tieflings being rolled into Nephilim?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 11:00
|
|
