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I think it's more likely that they don't learn history in "Sunday" School. While it's clearly for the player's benefit, Estelle barely knows anything about Liberlian history at the start of FC and Joshua's knowledge marks him as a bookworm. The only schooling that's ever mentioned in Liberl is Sunday School and Jenis, which is kind of treated more like a university than a primary school. This would also neatly explain why Rean is able to be a history teacher at the ripe old age of 20 years old: the history curriculum is laughably narrow and basically just covers the War of the Lions.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:45
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Gurumin tribute album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elaIbbXglyw
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Apr 25, 2023 22:21
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Some Numbers posted:I think it's more likely that they don't learn history in "Sunday" School. While it's clearly for the player's benefit, Estelle barely knows anything about Liberlian history at the start of FC and Joshua's knowledge marks him as a bookworm. Or maybe that's just because Estelle is... uh... Estelle. 
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Apr 25, 2023 22:27
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Yinlock posted:Especially the proactive part, as a low-rung anime cop he has every excuse to just kinda wander around waiting for something to happen but he's always very aggressive in dealing with or investigating problems and it rules every time. I love all three of the protagonists, but at the end of the day, as a massive novel reader, I love Lloyd and his Massive Balls the most since he's the most inspired by novels. Argas posted:Generally I've just found that I prefer playing stuff on PC. While playing my Switch hooked up to my primary monitor and using my secondary monitor is very close to the same experience, there's still some downsides to it. Dunno how the battery on my Vita is and I'm used to the fussiness of moving files back and forth and other poo poo, I'm also a lot older and more tired than I used to be so I dunno where my tolerance for troubleshooting this poo poo lies anymore. Oh well, problem for future me. I have the exact opposite problem lmao, I forced myself to play the games on PC and I swear it took years off my lifespan with how stiff it makes my shoulders. Never finished Azure on it so going through it right now trying to get there before I abandon everything for Reverie, but its hard replaying the entire first half not even 2 years later. Also Tesseraction aced the Arianrhod question. Good Job sir. I love her to death man, I want more.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:56
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Erpy posted:Or maybe that's just because Estelle is... uh... Estelle. To be fair, short of the Tales of the Abyss method, having a book dumb protagonist helps to make exposition dumps less intrusive.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:02
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Yinlock posted:It was a breach of contract, the most horrific crime imaginable. (CS 3 finale) No, it was very specifically the contract's "escape clause" kicking in. "When he returns, you will be absolved of your duties." Ohtsam posted:CS4 Emma's mom was a wandering witch no mention of a father, Fie is just an orphan I think they did mention that (CS4) Emma's mother found and saved the man who would become Emma's father and took him back to the village. I don't recall what happened to them, though. Tesseraction posted:The second is answered partially by SgtSteel91 but also in CS4 I seem to remember her specifically saying she intervened because of the people involved - remember that Rean and Laura both have some emotional ties to her past, but there were also two innocent children there and her entire schtick is being of upstanding moral character; letting children die isn't congruous with that. But apparently, taking traumatized children in, and turning them into murderers and assassins IS congruous with that. 
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Apr 25, 2023 23:06
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:But apparently, taking traumatized children in, and turning them into murderers and assassins IS congruous with that. I'm actually pretty sure they mention mostly being adults when they became part of the family.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:13
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They were all adults and I think all soldiers of some kind? At least one of them was
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Apr 25, 2023 23:43
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MythosDragon posted:I'm actually pretty sure they mention mostly being adults when they became part of the family. (Sky/CS 2 Enforcer names) Sharon, Joshua, and especially Renne were not adults at the time of their "recruitment". The tricky thing about "upstanding moral character" is that it can be hard to find good excuses for turning a blind eye to your co-workers openly doing those kinds of misdeeds.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:45
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Well yknow there’s a reason nobody liked Weissman
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Apr 25, 2023 23:47
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Let those who don't take part in an organisation with child soldiers cast the first stone.
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Apr 26, 2023 00:26
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:(Sky/CS 2 Enforcer names) Sharon, Joshua, and especially Renne were not adults at the time of their "recruitment". The tricky thing about "upstanding moral character" is that it can be hard to find good excuses for turning a blind eye to your co-workers openly doing those kinds of misdeeds. Honestly, this is why (CS4) I'm pretty mad that Falcom killed her off in such a miserable fashion. Clearly something about the Grandmaster's vision was appealing enough to Arianrhod for her to at least ostensibly work alongside Weissman and Novartis, despite her reputation as the pinnacle of knighthood and her participation in the War of the Lions. Instead of potentially exploring that in a future title, she got sucker punched by Rufus for no reason.
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Apr 26, 2023 00:51
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The Rivalries are a seven-men-enter-one-man-leaves scenario and it takes using a Sept-Terrion to get Crow out of that alive. She was going to die at some point during the Rivalries, Rufus or not.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:08
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Junpei posted:The Rivalries are a seven-men-enter-one-man-leaves scenario and it takes using a Sept-Terrion to get Crow out of that alive. She was going to die at some point during the Rivalries, Rufus or not. CS4 That's not true, though? If you don't die during the rivalries (or before, I guess) you can just continue doing whatever. Both Rufus and Cedric are still alive without any complicated interventions.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:21
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ah poo poo it's been long enough since I played that my memories are starting to go. disregard, disregard.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:22
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:CS4 That's not true, though? If you don't die during the rivalries (or before, I guess) you can just continue doing whatever. Both Rufus and Cedric are still alive without any complicated interventions. Rufus and Cedric were not Immortals, though. Rutger, Arianrhod, Crow and Osborne are specifically only kept in a state of not-death because of the Divine Knights. Unless she won (and knowing her, even if she did) she would die.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:26
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Uh hm I guess that makes sense? But wait, that's super weird that you can run around as an Immortal before the rivalries even start but you disappear once they end, that seems inconsistent. Though I guess that's just CS4's storytelling in general...
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Apr 26, 2023 01:34
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Those robots be working the long game.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:36
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Uh hm I guess that makes sense? But wait, that's super weird that you can run around as an Immortal before the rivalries even start but you disappear once they end, that seems inconsistent. Though I guess that's just CS4's storytelling in general... It's the Divine Knights, not the Rivalries, that keep them existing. Well the two are sort of one and the same in a greater magic ritual kind of sense, smaller Rivalries have been happening ever since the system was created, it's just that they hit their peak in CS4. Point is that the Gnomes and the Witches are capable of bonding a dead Awakener's soul to their knight so they can subsist off each other. It's not that they're fated to disappear because the Rivalries are over, but because that means the end of the Divine Knights. Terper fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 01:41
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Look, just because the kids took the toys out of the toybox and are playing with them right now doesn't mean it's actually play time.
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Apr 26, 2023 09:53
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Junpei posted:The Rivalries are a seven-men-enter-one-man-leaves scenario and it takes using a Sept-Terrion to get Crow out of that alive. She was going to die at some point during the Rivalries, Rufus or not. They picked the wrong Awakener to save. I said it, I'm not taking it back.
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Apr 26, 2023 15:53
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Some Numbers posted:Honestly, this is why (CS4) I'm pretty mad that Falcom killed her off in such a miserable fashion. Clearly something about the Grandmaster's vision was appealing enough to Arianrhod for her to at least ostensibly work alongside Weissman and Novartis, despite her reputation as the pinnacle of knighthood and her participation in the War of the Lions. I’m sure that’s the case... however it seems like that’s a very thin line between that and (spoilers for a character's values)“the ends justify the means.” And having a value of “the ends justify the means” doesn’t mesh well with a value of “be the pinnacle of honorable knighthood.” It seems like another case of Falcom trying to have things both ways. Now, conflicting values aren’t necessarily a bad thing. In fact, in writing, they can be incredibly compelling when we see the moments when a character has to choose between two conflicting values. (For example, Cold Steel 2 , where in the Intermission, Rean has to choose between his values of "saving as many lives as possible" and "opposing the strong oppressing the weak" and he chooses the latter. But after the CS 2 Finale, Rean was faced with just about that exact same choice, and that time he chooses the FORMER.) However, we don’t get to see any of that conflict with (CS 3 end) Arianrhod. By joining the leadership of Ouroboros and remaining allied with them after all their actions in Sky, Crossbell, and Cold Steel, she's already made her choice of “the ends justify the means” value, and she never deviates or wavers. People keep saying that she still remains the pinnacle of knighthood, even though she ignores all that very dishonorable, un-knightly stuff her allies and colleagues are doing, such as "we're going to murder an innocent child in order to set in motion the 'end of the world'". Because she never wavers, to me, that makes the “she is the pinnacle of knighthood” stuff feel hollow and false. This is notable because there are direct associates to compare with: (CS 3 - Chapter 2 end) Vita, a fellow Anguis, breaks from Ouroboros because she disagreed with every other Anguis about the new direction for The Plan, and also (CS 4 Act 2) Duvalie also breaks with Ouroboros because she cannot reconcile the honorable Arianrhod's support of the plan which will result in apocalyptic destruction and suffering for civilians..
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Apr 26, 2023 18:34
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I think that disconnect is why ultimately Lianne losses to Duvallie and Class 7 in the Rivalry Battle, her heart wasn’t in it for the Grandmaster’s plan and Dreichels compared to Class 7’s will, and is convinced to switch sides until Rufus got the kill steal
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Apr 26, 2023 19:44
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damnit, these are the hardest set of battles I encountered yet in Azure... Got my best girl, Noel back. As per the fight agreement, she is now lloyd's waifu. Went to get Elle. And holy poo poo, these giant packs of dogs and red constellation soldiers are tough. Had to restart many times cause one person would get killed before I could do anything. Had to start spamming Burst potions each battle get past them. Stopped at the warped in mech. Gonna try to get more progress tomorrow.
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Apr 27, 2023 04:59
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GateOfD posted:Got my best girl, Noel back. As per the fight agreement, she is now lloyd's waifu. Based
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Apr 27, 2023 16:06
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I probably been using Elle wrong all both games. Like sure of course I'm using her as a healer character, but in my head, I keep thinking well, healers should also be magic casters. but Elle's magic stat isn't that strong and its her atk stat seems higher. But I been using her to cast the big spells regardless. At least her EP is high.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:24
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Elie can do pretty good damage although her initial S-craft being a healing one is a real motherfucker the first time you pull it off as an interrupt on a critical-hit move only to just heal everyone instead of the intended critical damage because you foolishly assumed the gunslinger would do something gun related as an S-craft.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:28
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GateOfD posted:I probably been using Elle wrong all both games. Elie becomes an absolute goddess if you're able to get the Jupiter Bell early, because Spark Dyne is the most efficient EP to damage ratio for any art in Azure. Stack her up with with Action and Cast quartz and you'll be amazed at how quickly she vomits out damage.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:43
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Fun fact, in Zero, Elie's ATS stat is actually higher than Tio's. (although Tio's EP stat is still higher due to her having a one-line orbment layout) They changed that in Azure, though. Elie's ATS stat isn't as high as Tio's and Wazy's, although it's still pretty solid and high enough to do lots of magic damage. (not to mention she starts out with a MQ that raises her ATS stat) She's much better as a caster than as a physical attacker, since only Tio has a lower STR stat and I'm not sure if Tio's physicals even use that stat.
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Apr 27, 2023 19:34
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Elie does big boom as a caster.
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Apr 28, 2023 00:54
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Some Numbers posted:They picked the wrong Awakener to save. I said it, I'm not taking it back. Rean would sacrifice the world to save Crow. If forced to choose between Crow and "all the rest of Class 7," Rean would sigh, unsheath his katana, and turn towards Alisa. It's basically like a certain thing in Xenoblade 3.
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Apr 28, 2023 01:09
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:(Sky/CS 2 Enforcer names) Sharon, Joshua, and especially Renne were not adults at the time of their "recruitment". The tricky thing about "upstanding moral character" is that it can be hard to find good excuses for turning a blind eye to your co-workers openly doing those kinds of misdeeds. I thought we were explicitly talking about the Stahlritter, the organization under her. Some Numbers posted:They picked the wrong Awakener to save. I said it, I'm not taking it back. Agreed. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Morals Talk Several hundred years of life knowing that a sentient force of evil with godly powers exists, can do a lot to give some leeway in morals, and to my knowledge she atleast never did anything but make people love her. But also yes, after 9 games, the greatest flaw in the series is the lopsided balance between good guy screentime and bad guy screentime.
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Apr 28, 2023 08:04
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Ytlaya posted:Rean would sacrifice the world to save Crow. If forced to choose between Crow and "all the rest of Class 7," Rean would sigh, unsheath his katana, and turn towards Alisa. I don't think this is true. He;s not even the guy that does the saving.
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Apr 28, 2023 13:15
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MythosDragon posted:I thought we were explicitly talking about the Stahlritter, the organization under her. We were thinking along slightly different lines. She is part of the leadership, the "top brass" of Ouroboros, which means she has a share of the responsibility for what that organization does, as well as a measure of influence over what they do and how. And she, more than anyone, has the strength to back that influence up. If nothing else, she could have voiced objections by (CS 3) following the path of Vita and walking away. Her continuing onward proves that their actions are not objectionable enough to her to either make them stop or to make her leave. MythosDragon posted:Several hundred years of life knowing that a sentient force of evil with godly powers exists, can do a lot to give some leeway in morals, and to my knowledge she atleast never did anything but make people love her. Perhaps, but as I said, that's still picking "the ends justify the means" above "knightly honor." At least to me personally, that completely undercuts and discredits the claim that she has "knightly honor." Some people say that contradiction makes her more interesting, but to me it just comes across as hypocritical and makes her less interesting. I don't think that there's much more for me to say on that.
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Apr 28, 2023 13:27
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Knightly honor is about following your duty and she has a duty to uphold.
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Apr 28, 2023 13:29
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There's not enough gushing over Duvalie for all this anger at Arianrhod. I feel like, no matter where you stand on Arianrhod, you have to inevitably accept the truth that Duvalie fuckin' owns. Also, it's unknown how much Arianrhod believes Altina is a person. It's very easy for the gameplayers who have spent 80 hours (and some smallish screen time in the previous game (plus at least double that time with Millium) to say "obviously this is a person", and pf course the heroic cast will have spent months with both, but a person who has only known them for all of 20 minutes each, but is privy to some of their backstory, might just assume they're very realistic dolls. Doesn't excuse, say, Lechter and Claire, who have spent a lot of time with Millium, but most of the villains in that scene have no reason to suspect she's something more. The dude who built her is surprised, which should be pretty telling The other big thing is, Millium didn't actually die at the end of CS3. So depending on what they told the mooks, they might not have seen "killing" Altina as actually killing her. Don't get me wrong. Body autonomy is pretty drat important and attempting to sublime someone into a sword has got to be some kind of heinous crime that we don't actually have a word for. But it's also not murder. At any rate, there are a few factors when stacked onto each other give an idea of what's going on in Arianrhod's thoughts. "We are not killing a girl, we are installing a robot into a new case by breaking the old, uncanny valley case" Also note that this still doesn't let Cedric off the hook, because regardless of what he believed he was doing to Altina, he was pretty all aboard for murdering his brother and a couple of the more notably good people in the empire with him.
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Apr 28, 2023 15:13
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Man I don't remember Duvalie at all, and Arianrhod even less. Maybe I should replay those after I get through Kuro.
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Apr 28, 2023 16:18
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Duvalie is a great character, because, despite being an antagonist, she's probably the most heroic character in the series (in the traditional sense) other than, like, Gaius and maybe professor Beatrix.
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Apr 28, 2023 16:21
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She also has the most realistic reactions to the people around her being irresponsible dopes.
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Apr 28, 2023 16:28
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Duvalie is genuinely one of the best characters in the series. Her arc is good across all three CS games she's in and she manages to have a genuine presence in events even when the screen is globbed up by 50 people.
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Apr 28, 2023 16:45
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