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the_steve posted:Is there a bulleted list of what changes have been announced so far? Sounds like all the OSR monsters as well, Owlbear and different specific dragons. Seems to be anything that WotC could lay claim to. Also maybe some Ancestory changes, 1 new one, and name changes to others.
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Apr 27, 2023 11:20
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Is there a good database for pulling together NPC adversaries? Is Archives of Nethys best for that, or is there something else people use that help manage encounter budgets, etc?
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Apr 27, 2023 12:39
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Is there a good database for pulling together NPC adversaries? Is Archives of Nethys best for that, or is there something else people use that help manage encounter budgets, etc? There's some decent encounter builders out there that let you specify party size and level, creature traits, etc, and link out to Nethys for details. This seems to be a good one. https://maxiride.github.io/pf2e-encounters/#/
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Apr 27, 2023 12:46
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Is there a good database for pulling together NPC adversaries? Is Archives of Nethys best for that, or is there something else people use that help manage encounter budgets, etc? https://builder.pf2easy.com/ is up to date
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Apr 27, 2023 12:46
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the_steve posted:Is there a bulleted list of what changes have been announced so far? Dragons are getting moved from the old color scheme to a new set of families based on magical traditions. Other OGL monsters and magic items getting changed or removed (RIP Owlbear). Gnoll’s getting a new name. Comprehensive errata for Witch (specifically new and improved Patron interaction mechanics to make that feel more important), Oracle, Alchemist and champion.
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Apr 27, 2023 13:17
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Lamuella posted:There is of course nothing to stop you specifying your character's general alignment (in the same way that there's nothing stopping you specifying your character's Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). It just won't have an effect mechanically. And for the majority of players (saving exceptions discussed in this thread already) it already didn't. The idea of someone being "mechanically evil" was already a bit weird, honestly. Going to make my players take Myers-Brigg for their character development.
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Apr 27, 2023 13:31
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The only reason I'll miss alignment is I was planning on converting an old module that leaned very heavily into Good vs Evil stuff. So it'll take a lot more thought/effort to convert spell effects and things. Alignment seems to be doing less and less mechanics-wise anyway comparing 2e to 3.5 or something. Kind of like how they remind people that influence/diplomacy don't work on players, since they're you know, players. And since mechanically alignment really only mattered for a few spells it was sort of 'spells perceive you this way based on your actions so far.' If you take out most of those limited mechanics anyway, it hardly matters if it's written on your sheet. The Slack Lagoon posted:Going to make my players take Myers-Brigg for their character development. Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 14:10
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Chevy Slyme posted:Dragons are getting moved from the old color scheme to a new set of families based on magical traditions. Other OGL monsters and magic items getting changed or removed (RIP Owlbear). Ah, finally it is time for the bearowl (head of a bear, body of an owl) to shine!
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Apr 27, 2023 14:23
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Have they actually mentioned when this stuff is coming out?
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Apr 27, 2023 14:24
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Megazver posted:Have they actually mentioned when this stuff is coming out? It's like the second sentence of the actual announcement: quote:The first two books, Pathfinder Player Core and Pathfinder GM Core, release this November, with Pathfinder Monster Core (March 2024) and Pathfinder Player Core 2 (July 2024)
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Apr 27, 2023 14:25
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Piell posted:Ah, finally it is time for the bearowl (head of a bear, body of an owl) to shine! Hell yeah Flipcup.
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Apr 27, 2023 14:45
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Lamuella posted:Hell yeah Flipcup. Entirely new social interaction sub-system (explaining puberty to monsters)
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Apr 27, 2023 14:56
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Entirely new social interaction sub-system (explaining puberty to monsters) Trained in lore: cum
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Apr 27, 2023 15:13
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Megazver posted:Have they actually mentioned when this stuff is coming out? They're just listed on the store page. October 2023 for the Player and GM Core, March 2024 for the Monster core, and July for second Player Core. Basically, we're getting the basic system reworks in October and most of the reworked classes and new monsters next year. EDIT: Whoops, misread the site. And also there's a few slight differences between the store page and the announcement, but at least it's not too different.
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Apr 27, 2023 15:34
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One of the Pathfinder devs pointed it out last night in the comments to the announcement: they had no plans for this prior to WotC screwing the pooch on the OGL literally four months ago. Erik Mona (I believe) also pointed out that if they just wanted to make money they’d have done some very different things in response to all the new players coming from 5e. This is first and foremost Paizo getting Pathfinder out from under the OGL, and secondly Paizo taking the opportunity to fix stuff that didn’t quite work or could use some reviews three or so years into Pathfinder 2e. It’s pretty reasonable overall, and I’d much rather have this than wait years for an unchained alchemist or the like.
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Apr 27, 2023 16:08
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Yeah, like it kind of sucks the way TTRPG's are kind of slaves to the Big Decade Long Edition with Major Revisions, and there's a lot to be said for making space in the pub cycle for a reprint that integrates errata and essential splat stuff, reorganizes content to better reflect things that have been learned in the years since original publication, maybe a few rules tweaks but nothing dramatic, etc. etc. If "Hey, we've got this legal situation that means we need to rename a bunch of things in order to get out of this old license agreement" is what it takes to kickstart a cycle like that, then hey, I'm all for it. This isn't third edition pathfinder, hell it isn't even 2.5, but it's nice that they're getting an opportunity to do a 2.1. I do think it's interesting that they've moved the Witch into Core 1, and moved the Alchemist, Barbarian, Champion, Monk, and Sorcerer into Core 2 along with the other 'Advanced' classes. Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 16:26
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Chevy Slyme posted:I do think it's interesting that they've moved the Witch into Core 1, and moved the Alchemist, Barbarian, Champion, Monk, and Sorcerer into Core 2 along with the other 'Advanced' classes. I'm assuming Sorcerer vs Witch is because Sorcerer is built around picking one of 14+ build options that define what your character is about and Witch just has... six. Even with the Witch rework making patron choice more important, it's just fewer choices to dump on your players at once in your new basic core book. Also, I'm honestly more interested in the changes in which ancestries are in each book. It's just interesting to see which ones they consider most representative of what Pathfinder is once they've moved away from those core 3.5 assumptions. Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 17:00
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I'm assuming Sorcerer vs Witch is because Sorcerer is built around picking one of 14+ build options that define what your character is about and Witch just has... six. Even with the Witch rework making patron choice more important, it's just fewer choices to dump on your players at once in your new basic core book. Sorcerer and barbarian also have class choices based on dragons, which are changing significantly in the Monster Core and therefore won't be finalized for the Player Core 1.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:16
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Chevy Slyme posted:Dragons are getting moved from the old color scheme to a new set of families based on magical traditions. Other OGL monsters and magic items getting changed or removed (RIP Owlbear). Gnoll’s getting a new name. Comprehensive errata for Witch (specifically new and improved Patron interaction mechanics to make that feel more important), Oracle, Alchemist and champion. They’ll pry owlbears from my cold dead hands. Pretty happy with most of these changes. Looking forward to seeing what 2.5e looks like.
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Apr 27, 2023 19:30
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CottonWolf posted:They’ll pry owlbears from my cold dead hands. They're staying in the SRD/on AoN, so you're free to use them in your games. They're just not gonna be part of any new published material from now on. They seem pretty firmly committed to making sure they don't break legacy items/monsters/spells with these updates, even if a lot of stuff gets renamed (hi Magic Missile)
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Apr 27, 2023 19:36
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mind the walrus posted:
I've talked about Extinction Curse before, and what I said holds up: You want your group not to care too much about the idea that their characters want to be circus people forever. The module really wants like, unlikely young heroes with troubled pasts who ran off to join the circus rather than blungus the magnificent honklord who, when hearing about a wizard plague, probably just goes "you should report that to the good wizards idk i'm a clown" But beyond that, you'll probably need to clean up a lot of the angles that the module takes in its plot, because frankly, it's really written for an uncomplicated "orcs bad, humans good" type of mindset. The side that you are fighting for is unarguably the one that started the problem, but aren't directly responsible for its consequences today. Does that mean you let people die in order to only partially restore something lost forever? The game wants you to say no but that's only because the people reclaiming their ancestral artifacts are now demon-possessed fallout mutants as a direct consequence of the fact that they had those things stolen from them. Extinction Curse steps directly into a moral problem that it is not at all interested in really grappling with in a meaningful way, presumably because the writers just never caught what they were actually talking about. Do you play FF14? It's Heavensward but you can't actually get the dragons to sit down and talk. If you're not interested in drastically changing around plot beats and sequences of events, I recommend looking at some other 1-20 adventures. As a module, mechanically? It's fine, if a little undertuned at times. If your party is smart about things they'll be able to do most dungeons without a long rest, which definitely isn't what the module assumes. Be careful about severe solo encounters, they tend to be things that demand magic-bullet solutions that a lot of party compositions will have a very hard time dealing with, and that if let go too long, will totally splatter a group. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 20:18
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Mister Olympus posted:blungus the magnificent honklord Making him on Pathbuilder right the gently caress now.
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Apr 27, 2023 20:43
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Lamuella posted:Making him on Pathbuilder right the gently caress now. The entire reason I'm halfway through extinction curse right now is that regional names for trail mix came up and I said "gorp and scroggin sounds like a sitcom for goblins" then someone said they'd run the module for me if i played a washed-out goblin standup that got cancelled
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Apr 27, 2023 20:46
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Hmm... Some of the things they're talking about sound decent, some I'm not a huge fan of... And losing a bunch of classic monsters and spells/magic items (even if redesigned alternatives exist) could be a bit rough. But I understand the legal reasons they're doing it.
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Apr 27, 2023 22:51
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The Golux posted:Hmm... Some of the things they're talking about sound decent, some I'm not a huge fan of... And losing a bunch of classic monsters and spells/magic items (even if redesigned alternatives exist) could be a bit rough. But I understand the legal reasons they're doing it. Aside from alignments, tieflings/aasimar, and select monsters, I expect it to just be renamings galore Force missile instead of magic missile, bag of lightness vs bag of holding, etc etc
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Apr 27, 2023 23:01
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Jen X posted:Aside from alignments, tieflings/aasimar, and select monsters, I expect it to just be renamings galore Aye
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Apr 27, 2023 23:22
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Yeah, but I really like Owlbears and will need to see what they do with the Original True Dragons (I assume that Imperials and Primals will be fine, along with Outer, Esoteric, and Planar dragons that are actually considered different groups from "True Dragons"). Does anyone else have a convenient list of the other OSR monsters? I haven't found any on a quick search.
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Apr 28, 2023 00:16
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The Golux posted:Yeah, but I really like Owlbears and will need to see what they do with the Original True Dragons (I assume that Imperials and Primals will be fine, along with Outer, Esoteric, and Planar dragons that are actually considered different groups from "True Dragons"). The big ones that are definitely 100% absolutely going to be gone because WotC very clearly owns copyright to them are actually listed in the relevant pathfinder books (in the OGL notice) as coming from the Tome of Horrors. I don't think we're going to lose the chromatic/metallic dragons, they're just being reorganized.
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Apr 28, 2023 00:58
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I believe I did hear that they're further disassociating colour with standard alignment (or "alignment" in this case).
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Apr 28, 2023 01:23
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Arivia posted:I don't think we're going to lose the chromatic/metallic dragons, they're just being reorganized. They did say they're replacing the color/metallic dragons in the new Monster Core book with the primal/occult/divine/etc dragons, not because Wizards owns the concept of a "red dragon", but implied that the combination of those dragon names plus those specific powers are something that WotC might want to potentially fight about if they used them without the OGL.
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Apr 28, 2023 01:23
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Kvantum posted:Erik Mona specified the Outer Planes were not going to be changing. The 4e D&D edition change radically altered their Outer Planes, so those of us who remember that debacle are still quite wary over such things. (FWIW, WotC reverted back to the old structure for 5e, so even they went back on the idea.) Look, I'll accept that they hosed the Forgotten Realms in 4e but the Outer Planes stuff was great. It was alwaya stupid that there were "oops all water!" areas to "adventure" and turning it into primordial chaos was cool.
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Apr 28, 2023 05:09
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Look, I'll accept that they hosed the Forgotten Realms in 4e but the Outer Planes stuff was great. It was alwaya stupid that there were "oops all water!" areas to "adventure" and turning it into primordial chaos was cool. yeah 4e making the entire universe usable for gameplay instead of existing to fill space on a chart was great
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Apr 28, 2023 05:48
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Jen X posted:yeah 4e making the entire universe usable for gameplay instead of existing to fill space on a chart was great Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Look, I'll accept that they hosed the Forgotten Realms in 4e but the Outer Planes stuff was great. It was alwaya stupid that there were "oops all water!" areas to "adventure" and turning it into primordial chaos was cool. Cool and expanding the gameplay area vs. abandoning the idea of the planes being bigger and greater and more than just for mortals. Verisimilitude and consistency with now 50+ years of lore, or open and honest gamification. Arguments that have been at play for a long, long time now.
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Apr 28, 2023 07:26
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Mister Olympus posted:I've talked about Extinction Curse before, and what I said holds up: You want your group not to care too much about the idea that their characters want to be circus people forever. The module really wants like, unlikely young heroes with troubled pasts who ran off to join the circus rather than blungus the magnificent honklord who, when hearing about a wizard plague, probably just goes "you should report that to the good wizards idk i'm a clown" Thanks all of that sounds completely workable from my end. I had already picked up on the colonial backwash that it wasn't really going to engage with properly and have adjusted NPC/locations/plot details to be a little less "Glenn Goodman" and "XiphotataclickshopavichZhang: The Foreign." I hadn't done much more than Book 3 on prep so I'm hoping it's easy enough to adjust, but given how easy it was to turn "Little Trouble in Big Absalom" into a Session 0 for the Dark Archive I feel weirdly confident about being able to wrangle something a little less neolib about of the whole affair. It can't be any worse than Rime of the loving Frostmaiden holy poo poo that one was bad. We finished that one out of spite for the spackle and elbow grease it took to wrangle a cogent narrative from its uncooked pages. Thank you for the info about severe solo encounters. So far my players are building Summoners, Gunslingers, Psychics, etc. so that sort-of thing is on my mind. What can I say? I don't attract players who like a good scrap. I attract players who prefer gimmicks and being in the back line so to speak. The Golux posted:Hmm... Some of the things they're talking about sound decent, some I'm not a huge fan of... And losing a bunch of classic monsters and spells/magic items (even if redesigned alternatives exist) could be a bit rough. But I understand the legal reasons they're doing it.
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Apr 28, 2023 10:38
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mind the walrus posted:Given just how hard WotC punched its own gonads the timing really is never going to get any better to make this size of a break. Plus, I think someone else mentioned it a few pages ago, if they're going through all the effort of making their own
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Apr 28, 2023 11:42
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mind the walrus posted:Given just how hard WotC punched its own gonads the timing really is never going to get any better to make this size of a break. Oh I don't disagree with that
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Apr 28, 2023 15:57
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:I have my first session playing Gatewalkers this week. It may be interesting how our experiences compare to each other. No specific adventure spoilers, please, but how did it go if you played? We had our sort of session 0 last night where the GM opened up Foundry and helped us import our characters. We ended up each taking one of the deviant backgrounds. No free archtype but the GM gave us two starting ancestry feats instead of one. We're going in with: half-orc liberator of Apsu, shield tank with a scorpion whip, total power background half-elf psychic, telekinetic with imaginary weapons and thievery skill, sense of belonging background elf precision ranger, gambler with thievery skill, wishes for riches background elf cosmos oracle, lost loved one background deep gnome animalistic totem bearbarian, wanderlust background Worrying a bit about heals. The barbarian has medicine skill and excelled at it during the beginner box. Liberator has lay hands, my oracle has 2 first level spell slots for heal/bless I'll save for emergency heals. Hopefully we don't get crit as much as we did in the beginner box, those dice were swingy as hell. We're going to start the adventure proper tomorrow night if all goes well.
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Apr 28, 2023 18:21
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You can lean on just medicine and Lay on Hands for almost the entire game. So long as you go into every fight on full HP its usually fine with the following caveats. 1) Early game, combats are a bit swingier. At low levels, a chunky crit can put a character on the ground, later on the slightly different scaling of HP and damage means that stops happening, but initially its to be aware of. 2) Have two people with some in combat emergency healing, be it battle medicine, some on level healing potions or a few Heals prepared. You won’t need it every fight, but it’s very handy if you get a little unlucky. It’s worth buying a scroll or two of level 1 heal as starting equipment. Three actions to heal someone for 1d8+8 is super worth it at level 1 or 2. 3) Don’t try and have one character tank all the damage, unless someone has bad AC, its fine for a wizard to eat a few Strikes from some bad guys, the parties HP is a group resource. Toughest fight we’ve ever had was early game in extinction curse where our party of five ran into three magic leopards who each crit one of the front liners on round 1 and just action economied us to a near TPK. The fight ended with the sorcerer as the last man standing hitting a desperation colour spray that the last leopard crit failed his save on.
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Apr 28, 2023 19:56
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The game basically assumes you'll use focus spells like lay on hands to recharge to full between most combats.
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Apr 28, 2023 20:24
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I'm playing a Fighter with Blessed One and spamming Lay On Hands is very, very effective.
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