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Is installing a recessed can light particularly harder than installing a box? I recall about a decade ago when we actually had an electrician helping on a big remodel that they charged more for a canned recessed light retrofit than a box retrofit (including installing the light we got for the box). I have since replaced a can and installed a few boxes in old construction. It seemed like installing the can was just like installing a box, but just bigger. We are looking at replacing some light boxes with multiple recessed light cans now and I want to know if I am about to wreck my life or something. I guess there are also those new flush LED kits but they really don't seem much worse to me than installing the cans (I have fairly easy attic access).
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Apr 23, 2023 03:34
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guess we know why the downlight stopped working  e: fucks' sake we can add the lights to the stuff done badly by the builders the previous owner got to build this extension (see also: laid new floor then got paint on it). There's no space around the drill out for the fixture, it's just a hole cut straight into the insulation board. This means that trying to get the new connection box and light in is a complete nightmare, and that the new downlight is next to impossible to get in place because the spring arms have no space to expand into to clip down. I think I'm going to have to cut the connection output cable off and wire it back in myself using the wago connectors that were there before and that were just packed into a chock box jammed into another gap in the insulation boards. Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 10:18
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gently caress it, it's wired up properly so I've put the fitting into the gap even though the spring clips arent properly engaged and am going to get a professional to come and replace this whole run of four that were added by these clowns. At least modern ones don't have a separate driver to *jam into the insulation so that it overheats* Because they put a massive cutout into the insulation that's not going to be as effective as it should be even if they haven't penetrated through it. Seems that the proper way to have done this would have been to leave a void above the plasterboard for the downlights with some stand off batons and then lay the insulation above it. Clearly that would have been too much effort so here we are. Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 13:46
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They can install canless which do have a separate driver and wiring box but are IC rated so it's fine.
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Apr 23, 2023 15:21
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StormDrain posted:They can install canless which do have a separate driver and wiring box but are IC rated so it's fine. Hmm maybe. They were the older style ones with fins, but the driver for those is not supposed to be covered as far as I can tell. It definitely had a bit of melted insulation on it, though whether that's from where it burnt out I don't know. The new ones are self contained which means that they're fatter, hence the problem getting them clipped in (also the "speed wiring" box is massive and has some sort of godawful punch down connector that was drat near impossible to get engaged). The one I've switched out is just about ok, it's just not being pulled tight with the ceiling because the clips aren't quite engaged properly. I guess I could have excavated a chunk out of the insulation around the cutout but I had enough of the stuff all over me already. Other point of note here: these units are 10+ years old. When they built the add-on they took four of them out of the hallway and moved them into the new bit. I'm guessing the idea was to be consistent with the rest of the lights in the room but why would you build something brand new and fit decade old lights into it???
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Apr 23, 2023 16:52
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10x recessed lights 1x three-bulb light fixture 4x single bulb light fixtures 2x outdoor ceiling fans with two-bulb lights 1x two-bulb bathroom light with exhaust fan 1x single outlet bathroom receptacle (no GFCI) 2x outdoor duplex outlets (no GFCI) 10x duplex outlets spanning both living rooms 1x 15A breaker labeled "Lights"
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Apr 26, 2023 21:01
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How did you get into my breaker panel? Dryer, A/C on 240 breakers, every other one "Lights".
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Apr 26, 2023 21:58
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First thing I did when I moved into my house was to label the panel correctly. Made it easier to split a circuit in half when my PC and TV would trip the breaker if they were both on at the same time.
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Apr 26, 2023 22:48
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kid sinister posted:First thing I did when I moved into my house was to label the panel correctly. Made it easier to split a circuit in half when my PC and TV would trip the breaker if they were both on at the same time. I did this then ended up rewiring the house and getting a service upgrade. Twice.
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Apr 26, 2023 23:41
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I have three labelled "lights" which is how I found out what the sudden loss of power alert sounded like on the old house alarm. Loud. It sounded loud.
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Apr 26, 2023 23:53
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Yeah I was unable to work today but was able to slowly check outlets/lights and draw up crude maps:  The tankless hot water heater, outlet in the pantry, every kitchen receptacle except one randomly located mid-counter receptacle all on one circuit? Yep! That one oddball receptacle being on a circuit with a pair of mystery switches and a closet light the next room over? Also Yep! At least the breakers are new.
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Apr 27, 2023 00:23
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I asked this 2 years ago and there wasn't a great answer, but maybe something has changed. Is there any good software to help you track outlets and what circuits they're connected to, or is a hand drawn map with numbered outlets and a key the best there is?
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Apr 27, 2023 00:29
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Your requirements are a little unclear. On one end of the spectrum you could go like a hospital and label every outlet with a label maker and its circuit. Otherwise you can always do a spreadsheet/table with like “Living Rm NE wall” and breaker number or whatever.
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Apr 27, 2023 00:43
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FISHMANPET posted:I asked this 2 years ago and there wasn't a great answer, but maybe something has changed. Is there any good software to help you track outlets and what circuits they're connected to, or is a hand drawn map with numbered outlets and a key the best there is? When it refers to a building we call them plans. Or blueprints sometimes. It's possible all the circuit breakers in your panel have a number associated with them and you can draw lines indicating the order of each outlet and the circuit name. I was just thinking I should do a crude one as I recently did some changes on my home.
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Apr 27, 2023 01:03
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Shifty Pony posted:10x recessed lights Mine was pre:L I g H T s
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Apr 27, 2023 01:43
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Oh don't worry it was labeled "LTS".
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Apr 27, 2023 02:31
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When I moved into this house, all of the lights and outlets on the entire 2nd floor were on one single circuit. Old farm house, one light and one outlet per room. I told my wife this was a 15-year remodel project since we're living in it as well. About halfway through those 15 years she realized I wasn't joking.
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Apr 27, 2023 03:14
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Shifty Pony posted:Oh don't worry it was labeled "LTS". Spent a bit of time trying to figure out how to turn off the exterior lights that ran all night. Went through all the breakers in the house and then the garage until I found it. Then I understood what the hard-to-read "Y LITE" label meant. Edit: Regarding documenting the breakers in the house: I made a panelboard schedule in Excel (still working through a few house breakers that I haven't identified yet, and still need to do the garage).  I also made a house layout in PDF (not ideal, but the AutoCAD software that I used to use removed their free version a few years ago and I haven't found a good replacement yet)  Maybe a little overkill for a house, but the panelboard schedule and electrical layouts are similar to what I have done in the past for my job. jjack229 fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 13:24
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I'm not sure I even know which circuit the external lights are on now that I think about it. I know one of the upstairs circuits is on the downstairs loop because it was (I'm guessing) easier to run it that way. Apart from some lights inexplicably flickering that is probably another LED driver quietly burning out the rest is pretty ok. Oh except the power supply entry point is in a weird place that is right in the way and when I asked about moving it the power network went "yeah nah we do not join cables indoors because that's a massive fire risk, so it'd be a new trench to run it to an external wall and gently caress that. No idea why it wasn't put on the external wall in the first place seeing as it was built in 2014, long after internal termination points and meters stopped being common.
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Apr 27, 2023 14:26
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My son's bedroom has a hard-wired 240 volt heater. The controls don't work and ! can't be turned off. I called the local electricians to have it removed and they said, yeah, we'll call you back. It's two months later, no callback. Is removing the heater and capping the wires something I can trust my handyman (recommended by the appliance store, FWIW) to do, or do I need to wait for the boys with the certification?
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Apr 27, 2023 16:22
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Arsenic Lupin posted:My son's bedroom has a hard-wired 240 volt heater. The controls don't work and ! can't be turned off. So it this circuit a single breaker that you've turned off? If so all that need to be done is for that breaker to be left off and the wires currently going to the heater to be put together with a wire nut. This creates a dead short so that anyone flipping the breaker on won't be energizing a run of wire that is essentially abandoned, yet the run can be easily recommissioned later if need be. If this is on a breaker that services other things and will need to be left on the wires should be secured individually with wire nuts and kept in a closed box. Really they should be in a box in the other scenario as well. The box they are already in on the heater counts if you're going to just disconnect the wires and abandon the heater in place. Either of these things are well within the realm of a handyman to do. They may not know that's what's required and do something different, but if you're asking them to do these things specifically you should be fine. Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 27, 2023 |
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Apr 27, 2023 16:34
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If it was my house I'd figure out the breaker it's on, pop open the panel, and remove the breaker and cap the wires in there. That way you don't have a live 240v wire just waiting to cause trouble in your walls. You could also swap the double pole breaker with a single pole breaker and turn it into a normal 120v outlet if the wall box facilitates that. Make sure to be extra super duper careful if you open your breaker panel. Cut power to the panel first and triple check all wires with a non contact voltage tester.
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Apr 27, 2023 16:37
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SpartanIvy posted:If it was my house I'd figure out the breaker it's on, pop open the panel, and remove the breaker and cap the wires in there. That way you don't have a live 240v wire just waiting to cause trouble in your walls. This is not something I'd ask a handyman to do.
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Apr 27, 2023 16:38
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e: I'm an idiot you said the controls are broken. Sounds like my room thermostat that was somehow wired backwards so never actually did anything and the previous owner didn't notice this for the 8 years they owned the place, though at least there were thermostatic valves on the radiators.
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Apr 27, 2023 16:51
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Motronic posted:So it this circuit a single breaker that you've turned off?
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Apr 27, 2023 16:57
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SpartanIvy posted:Make sure to be extra super duper careful if you open your breaker panel. Cut power to the panel first and triple check all wires with a non contact voltage tester. Not-so-casual reminder that when you open your breaker panel, even with the main breaker turned off  you still have live voltage inside the panel , and it probably isn't terribly finger safe.If you don't know what you're doing this is probably not a great idea.
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Apr 27, 2023 17:46
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listen, if you replace the main panel for a customer and their house is a loving mess, or they're staring you down to be done already, or the house's circuits just plan suck AND they did not explicitly ask for the circuits to be labeled? unknown circuits are getting alternating labels of "lights" and "outlets". quote:408.4(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification i should start putting some adjectives on those then. maybe "cool lights" and "sneaky outlets". would love to see an inspector tell me specifically why a set of lights is not cool
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Apr 27, 2023 23:11
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Extant Artiodactyl posted:listen, if you replace the main panel for a customer and their house is a loving mess, or they're staring you down to be done already, or the house's circuits just plan suck AND they did not explicitly ask for the circuits to be labeled? unknown circuits are getting alternating labels of "lights" and "outlets". I just kicked some electricians off of a job because they made a "panel schedule" for a 3-section 96-breaker panel where the entire second section was "lights" on every single circuit. Forty-two spaces of single pole breakers that say "lights." Not what room, section, north south east west upstairs downstairs nothing. Just "lights." The invoice will not be paid until they can figure out what they ran to what. I'm not spending any of my money IDing circuits for sixty rooms on a commercial remodel. I know section 3 of that panel was going to say "outlets." It took them six weeks to label the terminal equipment as to what panel and circuit stuff was on. I had some fan controllers that had makeup exhaust air, plus separate circuits for controls and equipment. The only label was a sharpie saying "panel N-13." Panel N is 480V, and the control is 120V, so I know that's wrong. They looked at me like I'd lost my mind when I said to label everything properly.  "I need the circuit for each fan and the controlled equipment labelled on the outside of the box so I know all the independent sources of electrical energy to secure before opening this box."  "We'll write it inside in sharpie." "That is not acceptable according to current OSHA and NFPA Arc Flash Hazard requirements. Permanent labels affixed to the outside of the box where no energized equipment can be touched." Lazy rear end in a top hat electricians are the worst.
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Apr 28, 2023 00:46
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:I just kicked some electricians off of a job because they made a "panel schedule" for a 3-section 96-breaker panel where the entire second section was "lights" on every single circuit. Forty-two spaces of single pole breakers that say "lights." Not what room, section, north south east west upstairs downstairs nothing. Just "lights." that's completely next level bullshit to do on a commercial job, it's not even being lazy at that point because it would just be so much harder to work without any kind of labeling! ive witnessed apprentices chewed out for repeat labeling (ie two home runs labeled "c22") and that's double for addressable fire alarm mistakes. definitely a consequence of the install crew not being responsible for anything past the power being turned on, a policy whose consequences i could fill an entire thread with
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Apr 28, 2023 01:31
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Extant Artiodactyl posted:definitely a consequence of the install crew not being responsible for anything past the power being turned on, a policy whose consequences i could fill an entire thread with My brother, I hear you.
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Apr 28, 2023 01:36
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Goddamn it, my stupid rear end ignores that one of these outlets has never worked since the house was built, and we get a big surprise because of it. Don't ignore outlets that don't work. Edit: To weigh in on circuit naming, my panel is labeled exclusively "Light's" and "Plug's".
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May 11, 2023 21:29
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Looks like the outlet box did its job there. Bet that smelled something fierce.
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May 12, 2023 03:05
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Motronic posted:So it this circuit a single breaker that you've turned off? If so all that need to be done is for that breaker to be left off and the wires currently going to the heater to be put together with a wire nut. This creates a dead short so that anyone flipping the breaker on won't be energizing a run of wire that is essentially abandoned, yet the run can be easily recommissioned later if need be. Lock out the breaker with a lock or tie-rip label if you want to make sure those runs of wire don't get accidentally energized. No idea if shorting out the circuit is common practice in the USA, but it would absolutely not be getting through any inspection in Yurp.
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May 13, 2023 11:24
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H110Hawk posted:Looks like the outlet box did its job there. Bet that smelled something fierce. Had a dimmer that just kinda quit working when I was... 16? Pulled it out and it was just a mess of melted plastic and copper attached to the face plate. There was enough good wire left to splice in a new dimmer without opening up the wall, but yeah, this is why you use boxes, ALWAYS. IIRC it had 150W of incandescent lighting on it (and was rated much higher), but probably burned up from a loose connection inside of it. This was an old school rotary dimmer that didn't need a neutral, just your basic low end incandescent dimmer.
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May 14, 2023 00:45
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Hey everyone, a relative just bought a house that has one of that has one of those Federal Pacific stab-lok panels. That should be replaced right? Built in the 80's.
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May 14, 2023 21:48
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LimaBiker posted:You're not really supposed to energize a breaker into a short circuit if you can avoid it. I'd rather have the wires just capped off and labeled, not shorted out. No, you're not supposed to energize a breaker into a short. In this case you can avoid it by not energizing the breaker. It's not meant to pass an inspection. It's specific advice for a specific situation to ensure the wire is safetied. If the situation were different I would have suggested the correct solution, which is to disconnect the wire from the breaker. And then short both sides. This does pass "inspection", which isn't happening here because what was asked was what a handyman could do.
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May 14, 2023 22:11
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Pekinduck posted:Hey everyone, a relative just bought a house that has one of that has one of those Federal Pacific stab-lok panels. That should be replaced right? Built in the 80's. I’m no electrician and even I know that FP panels need to go as soon as reasonably possible.
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May 14, 2023 23:28
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KKKLIP ART posted:I’m no electrician and even I know that FP panels need to go as soon as reasonably possible.
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May 15, 2023 16:19
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My house has a very old alarm system (installed in 1990, upgraded in 1999 according to the notes in the master control box), the remnants of which are just the control box in a closet and the siren. Today I learned the siren is still hooked up, because all of a sudden there was a nuclear meltdown klaxon going off in my hall for about ten seconds. Thankfully I was already sitting on the toilet. I'm assuming I can just disconnect the power wires from the siren and cap them, but I'm a little nervous about what could've caused the siren to go off in the first place. Did a bug just fry its rear end on some exposed wires in my attic? Should I have an electrician remove the old control box? (could I convince Brinks to come do it for free? It says the box is their property after all...)
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May 17, 2023 18:35
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| # ? May 11, 2024 14:31 |
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Friend posted:My house has a very old alarm system (installed in 1990, upgraded in 1999 according to the notes in the master control box), the remnants of which are just the control box in a closet and the siren. Today I learned the siren is still hooked up, because all of a sudden there was a nuclear meltdown klaxon going off in my hall for about ten seconds. Thankfully I was already sitting on the toilet. Somewhere in your house is a transformer feeding power to the box, or a battery in the box, or both. Find that, unplug it, undo the battery, and then you should be good to just snip wires into the walls. Do you have a multi-meter?
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May 17, 2023 18:45
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