|
CODChimera posted:core pledge: $39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q52D4BkJLw For extra shipping?  Tell em to get all the way hosed
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 00:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
And capping the number of refunds they'll process per month, and implying that they'll stop refunding altogether if it looks like they'd be losing too much.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 02:36
|
|
|
They've been bad for a really long time. I'm surprised people keep backing their games.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 03:20
|
|
|
They kept trying to push discounted bundles of Darkest Dungeon around the holidays last year (with endless "we've extended the sale just one more week!" emails) and for the past month have been running a fire sale on Enchanters, Super Fantasy Brawl, and Steamwatchers. It really screamed "we need cash fast."
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 03:56
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q52D4BkJLw No, this is only for the production. There is a 100% chance that there's going to be an extra charge for shipping. "The amounts of this contribution have been calculated as accurately as possible, they only cover the printing needs of the project 6: Siege. The funds received for this contribution will be entirely and exclusively reserved for the printing of 6: Siege - The Board Game."
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 04:12
|
|
|
I'd have zero confidence about throwing in any additional money to this company and am glad I didn't back this poo poo. Feels like it'd be throwing good money after bad.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 05:06
|
|
|
TG Crowdfunding Thread 3: Feels like it'd be throwing good money after bad
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 05:52
|
|
|
Nobody's going to see any of those games or their money. Looking at the DD comments, people are asking about refunds requested in August of 2022 as of this week, and getting replies that the queue processing is only as far as June or July. This isn't throwing good money after bad, it's throwing good money after bitcoin.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 06:35
|
|
|
I wonder if there is a way of automatically establishing how risky any particular kickstarter is. Like "this kickstarter has a 40% chance of fulfilling" or "this project is unlikely to fulfil" and have some breakdown of how many successful/failed/cancelled projects the creators have been involved in.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 13:25
|
|
|
interrodactyl posted:No, this is only for the production. There is a 100% chance that there's going to be an extra charge for shipping.  oh man, double gently caress that then100% anyone who has backed that should be demanding a refund, or do a bank charge back. That's insane. Just woefully mismanaged.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 14:09
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:
People who demanded a refund a year ago, for any of their project, haven't received it, and I'm sure years later is too late for a chargeback. Don't trust a company that runs a KS before fulfilling existing ones.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 15:11
|
|
|
Z the IVth posted:I wonder if there is a way of automatically establishing how risky any particular kickstarter is. Like "this kickstarter has a 40% chance of fulfilling" or "this project is unlikely to fulfil" and have some breakdown of how many successful/failed/cancelled projects the creators have been involved in. For as little as Amazon gives a poo poo already, there is zero chance they would poison the well like that. Maybe a place like Kicktraq would be more likely, but even they get kinda spicy when a campaign is called out as an obvious scam and/or uses stolen assets.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
I've made peace with what I got for Darkest Dungeon. If Wave 2 happens, I'll be happy, but if it doesn't I at least got something. We're doing a campaign of it right now. I'm giving it a 7/10 for gameplay but a 10/10 for models.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
rydiafan posted:I've made peace with what I got for Darkest Dungeon. If Wave 2 happens, I'll be happy, but if it doesn't I at least got something. How much eratta was involved? I ask because Reichbusters eventually released a physical 'eratta pack' that replaced all of the character cards, rulebooks and some of the mechanic cards. It actually made an interesting, fairly coherent press-your-luck dungeon crawler dice fest out of the initial mess that had it's rules and reference materials written in natural language.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 18:25
|
|
|
Z the IVth posted:I wonder if there is a way of automatically establishing how risky any particular kickstarter is. Like "this kickstarter has a 40% chance of fulfilling" or "this project is unlikely to fulfil" and have some breakdown of how many successful/failed/cancelled projects the creators have been involved in. Before crowdfunding, business ventures had to lay out a business plan including risk assessments and bring them to a loan officer at a bank for evaluation. Of course, one of the problems that crowdfunding intentionally routs around is the built-in biases of that banking system, including racism and discrimination against some types of business, but also the general unavailability of small loans for nontraditional business ideas. But another of the "problems" it intentionally routs around is any sort of reasonable assessment of risk. People who put money into kickstarted ventures are gambling. There's no capacity to actually, properly assess risk, in the way that those traditional bankers did and still do. There's no open books, there's no credit ratings being explored, there's no market research. It's all on the creator to just advertise what they are selling, and the backers to "assess risk" based on factors like reputation, the claims made by the borrowers about how much work is left and what it'll cost, etc. and these claims are not being audited. For the platform, whether that's Kickstarter or Gofundme or whoever, to actually perform fiscal due diligence for all of its ventures, would be to turn into a traditional bank, with all of the cost and slowness and potential discrimination that implies. Even if the bank itself isn't taking on the risk ultimately, it'd be taking on an obvious liability - making claims as to the creditworthiness of its projects - for which it could be challenged or even sued. Of course, something as simple as "this company currently has four incomplete/unfulfilled projects" could be done without all of the above effort, but this is the sort of information that backers already have access to, if they bother to look for it. And companies like kickstarter have no interest in discouraging backers, that would in fact be directly counter to their interest, because they collect their fees the moment the KS closes. So here we see how the crowdfunding model for the platforms is truly a big innovation compared to the old business loan model for banks: those banks took on risk, directly, because they made a loan from their own coffers and the profit only comes after collecting interest for the life of the loan. Whereas crowdfunding platforms make their profits by collecting up-front fees from borrowers, while shifting the risks onto the actual lenders - that's you, the backers. Tl;dr, you're the bank, not kickstarter; it's on you, not them, to assess risk. They have no incentive to do that for you and all the incentive to get you to back risky projects so they can maximise their revenues. This is the model.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 19:02
|
|
|
Father Wendigo posted:How much eratta was involved? I ask because Reichbusters eventually released a physical 'eratta pack' that replaced all of the character cards, rulebooks and some of the mechanic cards. It actually made an interesting, fairly coherent press-your-luck dungeon crawler dice fest out of the initial mess that had it's rules and reference materials written in natural language. Nothing that major. Enough for a single page FAQ/errata document. I almost wish it was worse so they'd have to do a retirement of components, but let's be honest, they obviously couldn't afford to anyway. I can live with stuff like the reference board for the guild saying "upgrade a level one skill" instead of "upgrade a skill one level".
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 22:42
|
|
|
CODChimera posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1162110258/6-siege-the-board-game/posts/3796785 Note that they are also charging another 75ish bucks for shipping on top of that. After charging 60 in 2021. The product does not yet exist. Im on this ride, and while i really really wanted the physical game, they can eat my whole rear end asking for the entire pledge amount again. This looks entirely like a dine and dash. Looks like im going to have to carve up the tts mod and pnp it myself.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 22:49
|
|
Mouzer posted:Note that they are also charging another 75ish bucks for shipping on top of that. After charging 60 in 2021. The product does not yet exist.
|
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 23:00
|
|
|
rydiafan posted:I've made peace with what I got for Darkest Dungeon. If Wave 2 happens, I'll be happy, but if it doesn't I at least got something. yeah i'm personally fine with it, i only got 2 things from wave 2 and I sold my DD stuff already(just not enough room). sad for the people that invested heavily though, much like with peterson games I would've liked for Mythic to make it through this though, I like SFB and even if you're just getting a bunch of plastic for the other stuff at least its quality plastic
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 01:04
|
|
|
Mouzer posted:Note that they are also charging another 75ish bucks for shipping on top of that. After charging 60 in 2021. The product does not yet exist. fuuuuuck. yeah i think you gotta bail on this one sorry to say. thats like double, triple? what they asked for with DD. And DD had way more stuff and this is all after they sold off some IPs, big sales on their store etc
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 01:32
|
|
|
Got my copy of The Isofarian Guard and holy poo poo is this thing massive. It’s about the same size as gloomhaven but feels denser. The clay chips they used are heavy af, and while they feel great I kind of wish they’d cheaped out because hauling this thing is a butt.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 02:53
|
|
|
Middara is also going through a rough stretch as their increased shipping costs are also crazy high. Actually making me reconsider the all-in I tossed at it to complete my million-years-ago act one sunk-cost fallacy.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
Z the IVth posted:I wonder if there is a way of automatically establishing how risky any particular kickstarter is. Like "this kickstarter has a 40% chance of fulfilling" or "this project is unlikely to fulfil" and have some breakdown of how many successful/failed/cancelled projects the creators have been involved in. I hate to say it because it's going to feel like a smug "told you so" which I genuinely don't mean, but looking at the project in question I feel like a lot of these "big box games with licensed IP and minis" projects have a severe tendency to experience problems like this. It's the type of game that I just can't see as anything but a serious risk anymore, if not of outright project collapse then serious delays, shipping cost surges, manufacturing difficulties due to lack of proper planning, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 05:51
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I hate to say it because it's going to feel like a smug "told you so" which I genuinely don't mean, but looking at the project in question I feel like a lot of these "big box games with licensed IP and minis" projects have a severe tendency to experience problems like this. It's the type of game that I just can't see as anything but a serious risk anymore, if not of outright project collapse then serious delays, shipping cost surges, manufacturing difficulties due to lack of proper planning, etc. I'm inclined to agree. I feel like Cmon and Awaken Realms have a decent handle on producing and delivering those big-pile-of-plastic games, but a lot of the smaller companies might not know how to actually run a massive project with that level of logistical complexity, and it's only exacerbated when their project blows up massively because it's a licensed IP that everyone gets excited for. If I were looking to design and Kickstart a board game right now, I'd really have to ask myself if I couldn't just do it with standees because the last few years have been such a nightmare.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
I backed DD (never got anything for wave 2 lmao) and Monsterpocalypse (BIG lmao) before I even knew there was a problem with the company. I learned though. I learned.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 08:32
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:For the platform, whether that's Kickstarter or Gofundme or whoever, to actually perform fiscal due diligence for all of its ventures, would be to turn into a traditional bank, with all of the cost and slowness and potential discrimination that implies. Even if the bank itself isn't taking on the risk ultimately, it'd be taking on an obvious liability - making claims as to the creditworthiness of its projects - for which it could be challenged or even sued. Yet they do already let some companies do multiple ongoing campaigns, on the basis that the risk is low. Which is not quite to the same as bank-level risk assessment, and I wouldn't want Kickstarter to be a bank, but drat if it doesn't annoy me that some companies get preferential treatment, on principle.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 09:55
|
|
|
Did angry Joe ever do the mortal kombat board game? The street fighter one was late, but a lot of fun to play.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 12:32
|
|
|
sasha_d3ath posted:I backed DD (never got anything for wave 2 lmao) and Monsterpocalypse (BIG lmao) before I even knew there was a problem with the company. fwiw Wave 2 is supposedly still in production so it theoretically is still a "haven't gotten yet" versus "never got". There's a 90% chance you'll never get it, and it you do get it there's a 100% chance they ask you to pay more shipping, but technically it's still alive.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 13:49
|
|
|
gschmidl posted:People who demanded a refund a year ago, for any of their project, haven't received it, and I'm sure years later is too late for a chargeback. Don't trust a company that runs a KS before fulfilling existing ones. True. Years later is far too late for chargebacks for almost any brand of card. (Possibly all of them, depending on how far back.) Also Kickstarter and the like are technically investor platforms which explicitly don't guarantee you'll get a product at the end of the road. You have to tick a box saying you understand that while making the pledge. That makes most chargeback options fail by default, as the merchant (Kickstarter) can't possibly be at fault for non-delivery. If the amounts are small and the story is reasonable, some banks will pretend to do a chargeback and just eat the costs themselves as a courtesy to the customer. Source: I've literally worked at a credit card company's chargeback department.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 15:24
|
|
|
Azubah posted:Did angry Joe ever do the mortal kombat board game? The street fighter one was late, but a lot of fun to play. No, and from what I saw last time I was on the Discord, he's no longer part of Jasco Games, and they seem purely focused on their anime card game now. Desfore fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 16:12
|
|
|
LatwPIAT posted:Yet they do already let some companies do multiple ongoing campaigns, on the basis that the risk is low. Oh for sure, they've basically made some flagrantly self-serving favoritism decisions that they totally don't have to make. Seems like there's some degree of just, these guys are our pals so they get away with more, those guys we don't know so they have to follow stricter rules?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 16:53
|
|
|
I thought there were rules against running multiple kickstarters without completing previous ones? Is that true, or is it just selectively applied if true? I ordered Joan of Arc from Mythic and while I got my stuff eventually it was a bit of a poo poo show. I didn't buy all the stuff thinking I could get some more later, as they did the thing where the unreleased game somehow has 5 expansion packs. Unfortunately they did not sell the game retail, or did so for a very short period afterwards, so I am not too fond of Mythic. Their latest antics are disappointing, but not surprising.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:I thought there were rules against running multiple kickstarters without completing previous ones? Is that true, or is it just selectively applied if true? There are rules against concurrent Kickstarters, but most companies who have good track records have been able to bend the rules a bit as long as it wasn't too egregious. (ie, Onyx Path, who has had to use a couple different crowdfunding platforms recently because they had at least 2 or 3 outstanding Kickstarters)
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:I thought there were rules against running multiple kickstarters without completing previous ones? Is that true, or is it just selectively applied if true? You (currently) can't have more than one active campaign on the same account, but you can have serial campaigns without fulfillment, and if you have more than one account, sky's the limit!
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
Robert Facepalmer posted:For as little as Amazon gives a poo poo already Robert Facepalmer posted:Again, Amazon has zero incentive to turn off the money firehose did amazon buy kickstarter when I wasn't looking
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 18:15
|
|
|
rydiafan posted:fwiw Wave 2 is supposedly still in production so it theoretically is still a "haven't gotten yet" versus "never got". Yeah according to my email they're gonna charge us again in September :v
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 18:18
|
|
|
Vidmaster posted:Got my copy of The Isofarian Guard and holy poo poo is this thing massive. It’s about the same size as gloomhaven but feels denser. The clay chips they used are heavy af, and while they feel great I kind of wish they’d cheaped out because hauling this thing is a butt. Yeah, this is in the pile of "stuff I backed and didn't realize it was ungodly huge" along with Oathsworn. Not that I'm complaining, definitely seem to have gotten my money's worth. I haven't gotten it to the table yet.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
Fate Accomplice posted:did amazon buy kickstarter when I wasn't looking gently caress, for some reason I thought KS was their creation. They certainly have the Amazon 'does this make us more money? Fuckyou.' LOLwhoops. Looks like I thought that Amazon payments was still their processor and they were also under their umbrella because why wouldn't they be? Completely glossed over them switching to Stripe in... 2015. Nice. Robert Facepalmer fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 22:13
|
|
|
lol though at the idea of Wizard Luke becoming a leader in an Amazon product team. he’s the wrong kind of broken for that, entirely
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:44 |
|
|
Sage Genesis posted:Also Kickstarter and the like are technically investor platforms which explicitly don't guarantee you'll get a product at the end of the road. You have to tick a box saying you understand that while making the pledge. That makes most chargeback options fail by default, as the merchant (Kickstarter) can't possibly be at fault for non-delivery. This is something that people fail to understand and it baffles me. I've seen people back a Kickstarter, no on the community discord and start demanding instant access to the final pdf of an rpg. Or ask when it's shipping, or when they get charged because they used their spouse/parent/siblings credit card or some such. Steinhardts soulsborne rpg was rife with that. That thing did gangbusters and the amount of people jumping into that discord and having no idea how any of it worked was baffling. I've seen smaller devs just give up on the platform because it's such a hassle for people who don't know what their doing. One dev made.it clear you could get a pdf of an at cost code for a print version from dtrpg. People were livid that the 20 bucks then backed didn't give them a 80 page lite rpg and then they had to pay 6 bucks for a book and another couple bucks for shipping or some such. It seems like rpg kickstarters tend to only exist ina few forms. It works but it acts as a springboard for the designer to launch their own platform and they never need to do it again. The Kevin Crawford school. They daisy chain so one kicks off as another wraps up. Or is blows up and the scope get so bloated the entire thing collapses on itself and everyone's mad. But it's a risk from top to bottom and it always throws me for a loop when people act like they bought something from a storefront.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2023 04:17
|
|
