Geeky Star Wars Book Thread: Attack of the Disney Clones

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Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

I don't know anything about her work on Halo and Gears of War but for Star Wars I'll point out that in Legacy of the Force she loves Daala, a product of the Imperial system who launched terrorist campaigns against civilians, and in interviews at the time clearly meant for her to be a girlboss feminist icon.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:06

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# ? May 9, 2024 13:49

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I dont know if she particularly knew anything about Daala besides her being one of the few named Imperial leaders left in the EU and the only woman.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:08

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

Traviss outright said that she specifically wanted a female Imperial for the role and one of her Mando fans (I think one of the old TFN forum members) wrote up a list of potential Imperial women with little bios and she went with Daala. I remember she had Daala mention something about how there were no female moffs yet despite the fact there were female moffs in the NJO, so I'm sure she was completely unaware of any major specifics. I'm guessing if anything she chose Daala because she attacked the Jedi Temple in Darksaber.

I'm wondering who else was on the list. Leonia Tavira or another clone of Isard, I guess. Maybe the captain from the later books in the NJO.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:18

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

The more I read about the production snafu that was LOTF the more it sounds like a doomed project from the start.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:31

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Say what you will about the Disney movies but they were technically better at having Han's son fall to the dark side while all the authors were constantly feuding with no clear purpose

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:33

Robot Style: Jul 5, 2009

Well, they did have the advantage of just having him be evil from the start and not having to actually show the transition.

And when they did explain it, it turned out he was just a straight-faced version of the "you keep calling me a Nazi, so I guess I'll become one" thing.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:45

ninjahedgehog: Feb 17, 2011; It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.

StashAugustine posted:

Say what you will about the Disney movies but they were technically better at having Han's son fall to the dark side while all the authors were constantly feuding with no clear purpose

Flashback to the 2014 Legends split -- thank god we can finally get rid of the dumb EU poo poo like the OT heroes' accomplishments falling apart, the Emperor coming back to life and Han's son turning Sith! :ironicat:

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:52

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Moose King posted:

Her thing, which she's done in multiple franchises from Star Wars to Halo to Gears of War, is writing infallible noble warrior subcultures that are being oppressed by some sort other cartoonishly evil group, usually doing so with zero regard for (and often in direct contradiction to) how those characters had been previously portrayed by other authors for that franchise. In Star Wars, it was Mandalorians (specifically clones, who adopt Noble Warrior Mando culture) being oppressed by the moustache-twirling evil Jedi.

She was also pretty active in official Star Wars forums at the time and was really toxic to anyone who criticized her writing which led to a lot more backlash and vitriol in the fandom than was directed at other (mostly also bad) EU writers.

what i find funny is the COGS in gears games arnt really that GUNG HO oorah. they are mostly misrable and tired and just want the hell war to end because most are vets from the previous hell war. its bunch of tired grunts who are just hosed up and trying to end a lovely war they are all broken by.

StashAugustine posted:

Say what you will about the Disney movies but they were technically better at having Han's son fall to the dark side while all the authors were constantly feuding with no clear purpose

yeah, i have issues with the movies(espcially rise of skywalker which is dog poo poo) but yeah they are better then the endstatge books, hell alot of the other books in the old canon too.

Arc Hammer posted:

Anyhow I said I'd write up something about Traviss's novels. So, as people have correctly said, Traviss has a particular theme in her books, that of the noble soldier society. In Star Wars this was the Mandalorians. In Gears of War, they're the Pesanga. In Halo, they're the Spartans. In each of these franchises Traviss heaps a huge amount of praise onto these elite soldiers and writes other characters to idolize them even when it feels out of place. I'm hazy on this but I think I remember reading somewhere that Traviss had done journalism on the British SAS and was friends with a service member, so she's been rather enamored with special forces who don't play by the rules and it shows.

The from her Gears of War novels is the concept of birthing camps. In Gears of War the majority of humanity is already dead, so she wrote about how the Coalition of Ordered Governments issued orders for surviving women capable of bearing children to report to camps to help repopulate. This is a rather horrific idea for a number of reasons, and it is frequently pointed to as Traviss writing her own hosed up ideas into a story to force a narrative she wants.

In Halo, her novels follow Kilo-5, a black Ops team working to disrupt the aliens governments thst remain following the destruction of the Covenant in Halo 3. These books managed to piss off Halo fans because they feature a character named Serin Osman, a Spartan candidate who washed out of the program. Serin works for ONI, the same organization that runs Kilo-5, and she hates the Spartans and especially hates Dr. Halsey, the woman who ran the Spartan program. People don't like this because in the Eric Nylund novels it's said that all the Spartan candidates loved Halsey and that Serin hating her was inaccurate to canon.

Here's the thing about that horrible stuff in the Gears of War books and the stuff in her Halo books, and even the stuff in her Republic Commando star wars books: her protagonists are working for fascists or soon-to-be fascists. They're bad guy governments in any other setting or situation. The COG in Gears? Literally straight up fascists who just ended a decades long war with communists and then indiscriminately glassed 90% of their own planet to fight the Locust Horde immediately afterwards. The UNSC in Halo originally ran the Spartan program to make supersoldiers to oppress human colonies who didn't like the government. The Clone Commandos? Part of an evil space wizard conspiracy to kill all the Jedi.

The birthing camps are not presented as a good thing. They are not presented as a necessary thing. They are explicitly called out as a horrendous policy enacted by literal nazis who would cut off their own nose to kill a cold.

The Spartan washout who now hates the woman who crippled her? She now works for the Halo equivalent of the CIA and is actively helping backstab humanity's new allies the Sangheili because the UNSC is a fascist military state that argued that any means were justified if it meant survival of humanity.

I'm not about to defend Traviss's hosed up politics or her behaviour interacting with fans. There is plenty of stuff to criticize her over, but I do chafe seeing the same points brought up again that don't really hold water. From where I'm sitting, Traviss doesn't particularly like fascists or governments much at all, and her obsession lies with soldiers who are stuck working for weak rear end politicians or corrupt assholes. The noble soldier often criticizes these politician and those who support them because the noble soldier is the Hard Man Making Hard Decisions. That's why the Jedi are hated in her novels, why the brainwashed Spartans who unconditionally love being kidnapped child soldiers are tragic victims of an evil woman if onyl they could see it, why the heros of Gears are bound by brotherhood more than loyalty to the COG.

The noble warrior society is admired because it can break free from the weak and evil government through their own ingenuity and prowess. Kilo-5 might work for baddies but they're given free reign to do what they want. The Mandos and Commandos recognize the Republic as a dying beast and decide to desert because it doesn't deserve their sacrifices. Delta Squad from Gears and their buddies the Pesanga know that the COG is a bunch of assholes and do their best to survive between the genocidal dinosaur monster men and the genocidal nazi monster men.

Her reputation from Star Wars novels carried over to Gears and Halo and to be honest I think a lot of criticisms are unwarranted. Some people seem to feel that depiction = endorsement, so they latch onto rape camps and non-standard depictions of Spartans as proof that she wants women to be baby makers and that she doesn't get Halo lore. But the same people who rip on her Gears stuff don't seem to mind that she was also the writer for Gears of War 3 which most people agree had the best story of the series up to that point.

Halo games have shied away from outright examining how fashy humanity is in the setting and the first few novels played things incredibly straight. The Eric Nylund novels are good fun but don't go into then expecting a story about kidnapped children turned into cyborg supersoldiers to stop and say "this is kinda hosed up, isn't it?" The Spartans are the heroes and any critical examination is low priority. Gears of War was already stuck with a reputation of being low brow bro-tier writing and fratboy Xbox party material. But the fascist subtext and outright text has always been there. Traviss just extrapolated on it further and made it an actual focus.

I don't write all this to say that Traviss is actually a misunderstood genius or that her Gears of War and Halo novels are works of art. They're serviceable genre fiction with some typical military SF hang-ups, albeit with a bit more self awareness than usual regarding the hosed up fascist governments that are present in their respective franchises.

Some people don't like it when they have to ask Hans if they're the baddies.

id argue that she is the most faithful to gears except in stead of the poor noble soldier working for the lovely facist goverment that hosed itself when a toy got out of its box, its more like extreamly weird hosed up version of Willie and joe(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_and_Joe who got caught on the winning side of a hell war only for a toy to get out of its box and gently caress up humantiy because hell wars. the games are pretty explicity that the goverment are bunch of morons and psychos and its gets more expliciit as the game go on that the goverment sucked and should have lost the pendilum war and is resposible for all the awful poo poo and could have fixed alot of it by not being awful.. also willie and joe are both slabs of meat and one misses his wife. i think travis tries to enoble delta when the games kinda do it in less hosed up way, they are just trying to survive and maybe end the war or at least help some remaining people. the whole world building for that game is loving jigsaw puzzle with pieces being thrown away and brought back again.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 27, 2023

# ? Apr 27, 2023 17:58

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Gears of War rides the line between "humanity sucks and causes its own problems" and "orbital death lasers are loving awesome when you use them to kill dinosaurs with rocket launchers strapped to their arms."

# ? Apr 27, 2023 18:32

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Arc Hammer, your write up has been utterly fascinating, thank you.

Also now I'm getting an itch to keep playing Gears of War, haha. I suck at it but that kind of hardcore military sci-fi stuff fascinates me, which, well, wait why am I in the star wars thread, it's more space opera/adventure than mil sci-fi :v:

# ? Apr 27, 2023 18:39

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Arc Hammer posted:

Gears of War rides the line between "humanity sucks and causes its own problems" and "orbital death lasers are loving awesome when you use them to kill dinosaurs with rocket launchers strapped to their arms."

yeah and honestly it rides that line way better then it should have any right too. and at least it doesnt just lie about its contents and story like every halo game does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5I0_hjS3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3ZGGIdpfEM

i want this as a game drat it. reach is probably closet to what i wanted. big giant horror battle against alien religious nuts. The Halo TV series cost 10 million dollars per episode, and all Bungie's PR team needed was one lovingly crafted model and a bunch of minies doing war stuff and about 8 minutes of old men talking about a space war to blow it and honestly most of the games stories cleanly out of the water

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 27, 2023

# ? Apr 27, 2023 19:18

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

After reading the progressively boiled down versions of the thesis here I have a sudden urge to ask Traviss what her take on the Clean Wehrmacht myth.

# ? Apr 27, 2023 19:57

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Also while Traviss comes across as more of a personal rear end in a top hat I still think Denning was even worse in LOTF

# ? Apr 27, 2023 22:25

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

It's wild seeing the "multiple authors collaborate on a spanning narrative" thing parlay out way better in the High Republic

I think honestly the mandate of the old EU to never let anyone other than Han, Luke, and Leia be the lead good guys really shot lot of post RotJ Legends in the foot. Even in books trying to introduce and set up a new generation of leads, The Big Three have to be super present (probably what led to a lot of Legends Uber fans being displeased with those characters being deprived as much more fallible in the ST)

# ? Apr 27, 2023 22:46

Robot Style: Jul 5, 2009

It definitely seems like they had some more solid long-term plans for the High Republic stuff than a lot of other Star Wars undertakings. They mentioned "Master Trennis" being one of the Lost Twenty all the way back in the Dooku audiobook from 2019, and they still seem to be building up to her leaving the Jedi.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 00:03

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

jivjov posted:

It's wild seeing the "multiple authors collaborate on a spanning narrative" thing parlay out way better in the High Republic

I think honestly the mandate of the old EU to never let anyone other than Han, Luke, and Leia be the lead good guys really shot lot of post RotJ Legends in the foot. Even in books trying to introduce and set up a new generation of leads, The Big Three have to be super present (probably what led to a lot of Legends Uber fans being displeased with those characters being deprived as much more fallible in the ST)

is it worth getting into? which of the books are good? time jumps and etc?

Robot Style posted:

It definitely seems like they had some more solid long-term plans for the High Republic stuff than a lot of other Star Wars undertakings. They mentioned "Master Trennis" being one of the Lost Twenty all the way back in the Dooku audiobook from 2019, and they still seem to be building up to her leaving the Jedi.

i feel like they realized how badly they hosed up with the movies(i liked 2 of the 3 sequels well enough) and now filoni has to make all the narrative poo poo work with bigger context with the shows and poo poo.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 16:03

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is it worth getting into? which of the books are good? time jumps and etc?

Are you asking about legends or the new canon?

# ? Apr 29, 2023 04:05

Cross-Section: Mar 18, 2009

Robot Style posted:

It definitely seems like they had some more solid long-term plans for the High Republic stuff than a lot of other Star Wars undertakings. They mentioned "Master Trennis" being one of the Lost Twenty all the way back in the Dooku audiobook from 2019, and they still seem to be building up to her leaving the Jedi.

The High Republic also apparently has a significant role in the narrative of the new Jedi Survivor game

Alas performance on PC is so hosed at the moment that I actually haven't been able to see for myself whether that's true or not

# ? Apr 30, 2023 15:13

Robot Style: Jul 5, 2009

It does - there's a lot of High Republic ruins that are explored in the game, and the plot revolves around locating a planet that was discovered during that era, which feels very much like Jedi Knihgt.

The game actually reminds me quite a bit of Jedi Knight actually - aside from the overall plot, some of the planets you can visit are very similar in feel to the locations in Jedi Knight, and you can run around with Cal as a blaster wielding Jedi dressed like Kyle Katarn.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 19:04

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Then halfway through the game you run into these familiar lads: (no story spoilers)

Loving all the nods; it's there in spirit for old fans

# ? Apr 30, 2023 20:49

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Are those supposed to be Phase 1 Dark Troopers?

# ? Apr 30, 2023 20:51

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Arc Hammer posted:

Are those supposed to be Phase 1 Dark Troopers?

DT Sentry Droid, which first appeared in Star Wars Rebels, then Bad Batch

Unrelated to the Dark Trooper, despite visual similarities to the Legends design

# ? Apr 30, 2023 21:04

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

jivjov posted:

Are you asking about legends or the new canon?

new canon. high republic.

Vinylshadow posted:

Then halfway through the game you run into these familiar lads: (no story spoilers)

Loving all the nods; it's there in spirit for old fans

yeah i love how their is just "kyle katarn jedi outcast" outfit.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 22:12

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; I can't wait to entertain you.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

new canon. high republic.

https://www.starwars.com/news/every-star-wars-the-high-republic-book-and-comic-series

Your mileage will vary, but I've been reading most everything except for some of the High Republic Adventures comics, and I think I've gotten pretty much everything down. I'm just starting Phase 2, which is in the process of wrapping up. Here's my recommendations, marking + next to ones I recommend. It's a lot, and you could stick to the main adult novels, but you will be missing out on some context:

Phase 1:
+ Light of the Jedi (Start of the series, an adult level novel. Introduces main villains)
+ Into the Dark (Young Adult novel. Introduces secondary villains)
+ A Test of Courage (Young readers novel. Introduces some of the main characters going forward in the HR, including one who will later show up in The Acolyte tv series.)

+ The High Republic Marvel Comics (Events get referenced a lot in the books, and serve to introduce and wrap up some plot beats. Available on Marvel Unlimited)
High Republic Adventures Comics (A bit tangential but features a young cast dealing with all the events. Later play a bigger part in Midnight Horizon YA novel. Released by IDW, so not on Marvel Unlimited)
There are a couple of other HR mini-series comics like Trail of Shadows that are worth checking out if you happen to have Marvel Unlimited.

+ The Rising Storm (Second adult novel)
Race to Crashpoint Tower (Happens concurrent to The Rising Storm. I think you can skip this one)
+ Out of the Shadows (Second YA novel. Picks up on characters from A Test of Courage at a now higher reader level)

+ Mission to Disaster (Young reader novel, follows Out of the Shadows)
+ The Fallen Star (Final adult novel of this phase and helps close it out)
Midnight Horizon (Last YA novel of this phase. Features characters for the High Republic Adventures comics and Race to Crashpoint Tower. Is concurrent to The Fallen Star. Some people are really high on this novel, I didn't care for it)

Eye of the Storm Comic (2 issue series that wraps up this phase with some villain backstory, which leads into the "prequel" Phase 2. Available on Marvel Unlimited)

Phase 2:
+ Path of Deceit (Young Adult novel that introduces the main villains for this phase. I think it's a really strong start to what this phase is about.)
+ The High Republic Marvel Comics (Big part of the narrative hook for this Phase)
High Republic Adventures Comics (Now released by Dark Horse, so not on Marvel Unlimited)

They have also released some adjacent audio novels, manga, etc. but I've haven't read/listened to these.

By this point I think you can probably judge how invested you are in what's being released and can go from there.

Teek fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 1, 2023

# ? May 1, 2023 21:42

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Teek posted:

High Republic stuff

This is a great breakdown, and thanks for it. I think I'm gonna put it in the OP if that's okay, since I have basically no representation for the High Republic in there.

It also makes me realize I don't actually know which books I've read from it. I know I read Light of the Jedi, Into the Dark, and I think The Rising Storm, but I don't remember anything from the latter? If I tried to read The Fallen Star, I don't know if I'd have any idea what was going on. Maybe I'll try reading a Wookiepedia description of the plot of the previous book, see if that jogs my memory.

# ? May 1, 2023 22:28

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; I can't wait to entertain you.

Sure that's fine. The Rising Storm is about the Nihil attack on The Republic Fair.

Also I made some corrections to the above post for the young reader comics, Young Jedi Adventures is the upcoming animated show, High Republic Adventures is the comics, first released by IDW, and now released by Dark Horse. They aren't on Marvel Unlimited.

Teek fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 1, 2023

# ? May 1, 2023 22:32

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Teek posted:

Sure that's fine. The Rising Storm is about the Nihil attack on The Republic Fair.

Also I made some corrections to the above post for the young reader comics, Young Jedi Adventures is the upcoming animated show, High Republic Adventures is the comics, first released by IDW, and now released by Dark Horse. They aren't on Marvel Unlimited.

Awesome, thanks. Also, yes, I did read that, because I remember that.

OP updated with your post, and some other random updates I noticed I needed to make. Like the fact that when I made it, only one Alphabet Squadron book was out.

# ? May 1, 2023 22:45

feedmyleg: Dec 25, 2004

Are there any Disney-era books that focus on the Space Western aspect of Star Wars? Everything I'm looking at seems to either be about the history of the Jedi or the rise and inner-workings of political factions.

# ? May 2, 2023 16:06

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

feedmyleg posted:

Are there any Disney-era books that focus on the Space Western aspect of Star Wars? Everything I'm looking at seems to either be about the history of the Jedi or the rise and inner-workings of political factions.

I think Ahsoka by E. K. Johnston does. I'm mostly going to paraphrase what I wrote in the OP here. The timeline is her post-Order 66 and before showing up in Rebels, and there's a small bit of "larger galaxy" stuff in there, but mostly it's her on her own, surviving in the rising Empire. And without getting into spoilers, she finds her self helping a group of people in need of her help. Feels like a Space Western to me, and I enjoyed it. And if you like audio books, it's read by Ashley Eckstein.

That's all I can think of at the moment, though.

# ? May 2, 2023 16:19

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

feedmyleg posted:

Are there any Disney-era books that focus on the Space Western aspect of Star Wars? Everything I'm looking at seems to either be about the history of the Jedi or the rise and inner-workings of political factions.

Kenobi by John Jackson Miller is your best bet. It�s what the Obi-Wan show should have been.

# ? May 2, 2023 16:38

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Casimir Radon posted:

Kenobi by John Jackson Miller is your best bet. It�s what the Obi-Wan show should have been.

That's pre-Disney. However, A New Dawn is very similar and about how Hera and Kanan meet while Kanan is hiding out pretending to be Cal Kestis.

# ? May 2, 2023 16:43

ninjahedgehog: Feb 17, 2011; It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.

Casimir Radon posted:

Kenobi by John Jackson Miller is your best bet. It�s what the Obi-Wan show should have been.

I maintain that with an extremely aggressive edit you could cut Obi-Wan down to a decent 120-minute movie. tbh I think a dedicated fan could even piece something passable together with only the footage provided

# ? May 2, 2023 16:47

VaultAggie: Nov 18, 2010; Best out of 71?

Casimir Radon posted:

Kenobi by John Jackson Miller is your best bet. It�s what the Obi-Wan show should have been.

That book was so good.

# ? May 2, 2023 17:06

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

Casimir Radon posted:

Kenobi by John Jackson Miller is your best bet. It�s what the Obi-Wan show should have been.

Wasn�t there some writer who confirmed it was originally basically going to be very much like the novel before the Boba Fett show went into development and focused on the Tuskens?

# ? May 2, 2023 17:18

Robot Style: Jul 5, 2009

From what I can tell, there were a few different versions of the story that evolved over the years:

The initial movie version, written by Hossein Amini and directed by Stephen Daldry. This one would have been about Obi-Wan protecting Luke on Tatooine while trying to negotiate tensions between moisture farmers and the native Tuskens. Given how much modern Star Wars likes to cannibalize unused concepts and ideas, I wonder if any of the Tatooine stuff from The Mandalorian or Book of Boba Fett was originally conceived for this movie. A sequence where Farmers and Tuskens have to work together to fend off a Krayt Dragon seems like something that would work as the climax to a smaller-scale movie like this.
The second movie version, written by Stuart Beattie. This one had Obi-Wan leaving the planet to rescue Leia, but also featured a B-Plot about Cody watching over Luke while he was away. Around this time, there were also ideas to incorporate Maul into the movie.
The first version of the series, which was expanded from Beattie's version (seemingly by Amini again) and directed by Deborah Chow.
The final version of the series by Joby Harold, which is what we got on screen, and seems to be the version that introduced Vader as a major player in the story.

The episode writing credits are a bit of a clue as to what material was present in each version of the story. Normally writing credits separated by "and" mean two separate writers each worked on the script independently, while writers joined by "&" wrote together on the same script. There's also different credits for "Teleplay" and "Story". Very generally, "Teleplay by" means that the person wrote portions of the script used in the episode itself, like lines of dialogue or stage direction. "Story By" is used when a writer's basic outlines for the story or individual scenes is used, but not enough of their actual script remains in the finished product to give them a Teleplay credit. "Written by" credits are for cases where separate story and teleplay credits aren't neessary.

Episode 1 - Teleplay by Joby Harold and Hossein Amini and Stuart Beattie. Story by Stuart Beattie and Hossein Amini. This episode is almost entirely set on Tatooine so stuff like Obi-Wan working at the whaling station and his arguments with Owen are probably stuff that dates back to Amini's draft. The Leia stuff and the bit with the Inquisitors is probably from Beattie's draft, with Joby Harold coming in at the end to stitch everything together and make it work for the final version of the show.
Episode 2 - Teleplay by Joby Harold. Story by Stuart Beattie and Hossein Amini. Nothing of Amini or Beattie's scripts exist in the episode, but there's enough of their initial ideas for them to get credit. Maybe a character similar to Haja or a battle against bounty hunters was featured in their scripts, but had different context.
Episode 3 - Written by Joby Harold & Hannah Friedman and Hossein Amini and Stuart Beattie. This one's a weird one. According to Writer's guild rules, "�Written by� credit will not be shared by more than two writers, except that in unusual cases, and solely as a result of a credit arbitration, the names of three writers or writing teams may be used." This suggests that Amini and Beattie didn't really have anything to do with this episode, but have their names on it for contractual reasons.
Episode 4 - Written by Joby Harold & Hannah Friedman. This episode is so completely divorced from anything from in Amini and Beattie's scripts that they don't even get courtesy credits. So the Jabiim / Fortress Inquisitorius stuff is entirely from later versions of the story.
Episode 5 - Written by Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton. Continuing from the previous Episode, this is all new material for the final version of the series.
Episode 6 - Teleplay by Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton and Hossein Amini. Story by Stuart Beattie and Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton. Some of Amini's script exists in the actual episode, which makes sense since this episode returns to Tatooine. He doesn't get a story credit though, so maybe there's just some dialogue or specific scene staging that made it through. I could see an early version of the story where the Lars family had to fend against a Tusken raid rather than an Inquisitor. Likewise, Stuart Beattie got a Story credit, but not a Teleplay credit. So maybe he had included a battle against Reva, but the specifics of that fight were changed enough that his actual dialogue and stage direction didn't remain. The Vader stuff is likely all new.

Robot Style fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 2, 2023

# ? May 2, 2023 19:33

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Robot Style posted:

From what I can tell, there were a few different versions of the story that evolved over the years:

[list]
[*]The initial movie version, written by Hossein Amini and directed by Stephen Daldry. This one would have been about Obi-Wan protecting Luke on Tatooine while trying to negotiate tensions between moisture farmers and the native Tuskens. Given how much modern Star Wars likes to cannibalize unused concepts and ideas, I wonder if any of the Tatooine stuff from The Mandalorian or Book of Boba Fett was originally conceived for this movie. A sequence where Farmers and Tuskens have to work together to fend off a Krayt Dragon seems like something that would work as the climax to a smaller-scale movie like this.

Wasn't that the season 2 opener for the Mandalorian?

# ? May 2, 2023 23:36

Rochallor: Apr 23, 2010; ふっっっっっっっっっっっっｃｋ

Robot Style posted:

From what I can tell, there were a few different versions of the story that evolved over the years:

The initial movie version, written by Hossein Amini and directed by Stephen Daldry. This one would have been about Obi-Wan protecting Luke on Tatooine while trying to negotiate tensions between moisture farmers and the native Tuskens. Given how much modern Star Wars likes to cannibalize unused concepts and ideas, I wonder if any of the Tatooine stuff from The Mandalorian or Book of Boba Fett was originally conceived for this movie. A sequence where Farmers and Tuskens have to work together to fend off a Krayt Dragon seems like something that would work as the climax to a smaller-scale movie like this.

The second movie version, written by Stuart Beattie. This one had Obi-Wan leaving the planet to rescue Leia, but also featured a B-Plot about Cody watching over Luke while he was away. Around this time, there were also ideas to incorporate Maul into the movie.

The first version of the series, which was expanded from Beattie's version (seemingly by Amini again) and directed by Deborah Chow.

The final version of the series by Joby Harold, which is what we got on screen, and seems to be the version that introduced Vader as a major player in the story.

The episode writing credits are a bit of a clue as to what material was present in each version of the story. Normally writing credits separated by "and" mean two separate writers each worked on the script independently, while writers joined by "&" wrote together on the same script. There's also different credits for "Teleplay" and "Story". Very generally, "Teleplay by" means that the person wrote portions of the script used in the episode itself, like lines of dialogue or stage direction. "Story By" is used when a writer's basic outlines for the story or individual scenes is used, but not enough of their actual script remains in the finished product to give them a Teleplay credit. "Written by" credits are for cases where separate story and teleplay credits aren't neessary.

Episode 1 - Teleplay by Joby Harold and Hossein Amini and Stuart Beattie. Story by Stuart Beattie and Hossein Amini. This episode is almost entirely set on Tatooine so stuff like Obi-Wan working at the whaling station and his arguments with Owen are probably stuff that dates back to Amini's draft. The Leia stuff and the bit with the Inquisitors is probably from Beattie's draft, with Joby Harold coming in at the end to stitch everything together and make it work for the final version of the show.

Episode 2 - Teleplay by Joby Harold. Story by Stuart Beattie and Hossein Amini. Nothing of Amini or Beattie's scripts exist in the episode, but there's enough of their initial ideas for them to get credit. Maybe a character similar to Haja or a battle against bounty hunters was featured in their scripts, but had different context.

Episode 3 - Written by Joby Harold & Hannah Friedman and Hossein Amini and Stuart Beattie. This one's a weird one. According to Writer's guild rules, "“Written by” credit will not be shared by more than two writers, except that in unusual cases, and solely as a result of a credit arbitration, the names of three writers or writing teams may be used." This suggests that Amini and Beattie didn't really have anything to do with this episode, but have their names on it for contractual reasons.

Episode 4 - Written by Joby Harold & Hannah Friedman. This episode is so completely divorced from anything from in Amini and Beattie's scripts that they don't even get courtesy credits. So the Jabiim / Fortress Inquisitorius stuff is entirely from later versions of the story.

Episode 5 - Written by Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton. Continuing from the previous Episode, this is all new material for the final version of the series.

Episode 6 - Teleplay by Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton and Hossein Amini. Story by Stuart Beattie and Joby Harold & Andrew Stanton. Some of Amini's script exists in the actual episode, which makes sense since this episode returns to Tatooine. He doesn't get a story credit though, so maybe there's just some dialogue or specific scene staging that made it through. I could see an early version of the story where the Lars family had to fend against a Tusken raid rather than an Inquisitor. Likewise, Stuart Beattie got a Story credit, but not a Teleplay credit. So maybe he had included a battle against Reva, but the specifics of that fight were changed enough that his actual dialogue and stage direction didn't remain. The Vader stuff is likely all new.

Thanks for the analysis, that's really interesting.

AMCA alluded once that somebody had leaked a draft of the script for the Obi-wan movie to them and it was really bad, all Austin would say about it was that it had some terrible explanation for why Obi-wan starts going by Ben.

Fortunately they rescued that scene and placed it in Solo.

# ? May 2, 2023 23:37

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

Yeah, thank you Robot Style, that was a really interesting breakdown.

Rochallor posted:

Thanks for the analysis, that's really interesting.

AMCA alluded once that somebody had leaked a draft of the script for the Obi-wan movie to them and it was really bad, all Austin would say about it was that it had some terrible explanation for why Obi-wan starts going by Ben.

Fortunately they rescued that scene and placed it in Solo.

I remember back in 2004, Rick McCallum promised that ROTS was going to explain the Ben nickname, as well as the origin of Palpatine�s red guards.

# ? May 2, 2023 23:50

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Chairman Capone posted:

Yeah, thank you Robot Style, that was a really interesting breakdown.

I remember back in 2004, Rick McCallum promised that ROTS was going to explain the Ben nickname, as well as the origin of Palpatine�s red guards.

Well it did the second one. They were blue, but then they changed to be red.

# ? May 3, 2023 01:44

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# ? May 9, 2024 13:49

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Arquinsiel posted:

Well it did the second one. They were blue, but then they changed to be red.

Like Lobsters

# ? May 3, 2023 11:13

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Geeky Star Wars Book Thread: Attack of the Disney Clones

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