|
I think the other thing is that to the WoL whether or not the Heaven's Ward were bad guys or just tempered victims...really doesn't matter? Plenty of people are, as far as their world intersects with the WoL's, "bad people" who are doing bad things and need to get got. But at the same time the WoL is sensible enough to recognize that these "bad people" are for the most part just people, with loved ones, human ties, and people whose lives they enrich, and that as an unavoidable consequence of them coming into conflict you make many peoples' lives tangibly worse, robbing them of love or even life. And because they are a good person, this bothers them, a lot! The WoL doesn't want to kill people, but they have to. They don't want to spread pain, but they must. Even as early as the first few levels of Stormblood we get M'Naago outright confirming that a good number of the imperials you cut down, even fleeing and retreating soldiers, are just hapless conscripts whom you are only killing because they would kill you if they could - because that's war.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 04:28 |
|
|
Ran Rannerson posted:The thing about Ser Ignasse and the Heaven’s Ward generally that the game doesn’t really do a great job of explaining in the internal text is that they were all mildly tempered to the degree that they were mostly the same as they always were but they literally can’t say no to Thordan. I think the only scene that gets close to demonstrating this is one pretty early on where Zephirin expresses some doubts but kind of shifts into NO THORDAN YOU’RE RIGHT I OBEY and I’m not sure I remember that right. But it was confirmed in external sources and I think Ignasse was one who was just some guy outside of his tempering as opposed to, like, Grinnaux and Charibert, who were just always assholes. I mean I guess they have Cop Vibes too but you know, they don’t really have as much agency as they could. So I think if the WoL did pick up on that that’s a great way to make them feel like poo poo about killing this guy even though there wasn’t actually any way to get him to stop doing evil Heaven’s Ward poo poo. I've pretty much always equated Tempering to how Mass Effect treated Reaper indoctrination - there's a sliding scale of "less tempered/indoctrinated (but still has free will/a personality/etc)" to "more tempered (but effectively a mindless thrall)". If you need the people you've tempered to still perform like, perfunctory duties as members of society, like Thordan did, you're on one end of the scale. Most of the tempering we've seen thus far... well, hasn't had to do that, so it's all maxed out on the "mindless thrall" side of the slider. There are also more examples of this scale existing, but they're all spoilers of some manner so I'm not planning to even talk about them until the time is right. Also yeah, I don't think anyone here, no matter how sympathetic they find Myste, think his actions are anywhere close to "good" "reasonable" or "helpful". But trauma responses are very rarely anything but messy and Myste is nothing if not a sapient trauma response. Sid lets Myste do what he does largely because he recognizes Myste is tunnel visioning so hard that he's going to do it regardless, so he might as well help so that he doesn't get in further danger. The motivations are primarily driven by "getting the WoL's DRK Crystal restored" but he also can tell the kid isn't well and needs someone to make sure he doesn't go completely off the deep end. Jetrauben posted:I think the other thing is that to the WoL whether or not the Heaven's Ward were bad guys or just tempered victims...really doesn't matter? Plenty of people are, as far as their world intersects with the WoL's, "bad people" who are doing bad things and need to get got. But at the same time the WoL is sensible enough to recognize that these "bad people" are for the most part just people, with loved ones, human ties, and people whose lives they enrich, and that as an unavoidable consequence of them coming into conflict you make many peoples' lives tangibly worse, robbing them of love or even life. I mean, "having to put down people you don't want to because you can't reason with them (whether as a genuine clash or ideals or because of tempering)" is something that comes up a fair bit - what was Baelsar's Wall, if not that? Monathin fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
Its Rinaldo posted:I mean it’s a big enough part of WoL that it can manifest at all is telling even with wizardy poo poo going on it’s still unheard of for something to happen like this. But then my brain went "but Zenos tho" But then I course corrected by realizing that if this happened to Zenos, you absolutely wouldn't be able to tell, because he would have immediately fought Myste and Fray to the death and eaten them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 00:01
|
|
|
DanielCross posted:I think conflating what Myste is doing with "summoning" in the Primal sense is entirely wrong. They're not comparable to any known primal, they're not formed of faith and aether, they're formed of memories. They don't gain power from belief, they're temporary and destined to dissipate. These differences may seem semantic, but I think the semantics are crucially important here insofar as "what these things are." Like, others were jokingly comparing Myste to a Carbuncle, but he and the things he's creating really are closer to Carbies and Summoner Egi than actual primals. Myste ate some birds so I think it might be scaling issue than anything as the Knights 12 didn’t temper anybody in Ishgard either. I have a lot more to say but am constrained by the remit of this thread and even if I hated this quest line and what it says and implies I would never want somebody to not go through it and figure out their Answers (:v) for themselves Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 00:53
|
|
|
dyslexicfaser posted:But then my brain went "but Zenos tho" Breaking News: we've just received footage of Zenos after he received a Dark Knight's Soul and accidentally made a shadowy version of himself out of his trauma: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 01:07
|
|
|
Myste's timing also works well as a bookend to the Lakshmi part of the story in Stormblood. We know primals can't make the dead as a lifeless puppet, where as these figures are conversing and hanging out. Also everytime someone says, "no, please don't reanimate the dead" Myste unmakes the illusion. Ascians don't do that. It's a bit like that episode of TNG where Riker is given the power to everyone's struggle disappear, and everyone in the turn sats they'd rather just overcome their limitations the hard way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 01:07
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:Myste's timing also works well as a bookend to the Lakshmi part of the story in Stormblood. We know primals can't make the dead as a lifeless puppet, where as these figures are conversing and hanging out. I would contend animating a corpse is different than an illusion or an actual aether construct like a primal. Also that what Lakshmi knows is possible and what Ascians know are not the same thing. Plus Lakshmi didn't seem like she really cared if it worked or not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 01:40
|
|
|
Its Rinaldo posted:I would contend animating a corpse is different than an illusion or an actual aether construct like a primal. Also that what Lakshmi knows is possible and what Ascians know are not the same thing. And we are neither Lakshmi nor an Ascian.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 01:42
|
|
|
What I got out of it was that the Job Stones are, in fact, at least minor artifacts that are capable of some pretty weird effects beyond their more "mundane" uses. Dark Knight's isn't even the only one - as bad the story was, Paladin's can do that dumb Highlander thing. The spanner in the work is Kheris herself - the vast majority of anybody who has a Job Stone does not actually have the Echo, nor do they have an unusually large personal store of aether to draw upon (which is one of the canon explanations for why the WoL can teleport so freely compared to the common person). Sid has never seen such a dramatic effect from his time as a Dark Knight, but rather than having a more special rock than anybody else, I believe it's more that what might simply be dark mental whispers at best to Sid get to jumble around and coalesce due to Kheris's more unique qualities. As noted, not only does this not have to mean that they're necessarily large aspects taking form, but Kheris overcomes both - yes, she REALLY DOES actually like helping people, no, she REALLY DOESN'T want to wallow in what could have been. But the impulses are part of her all the same. A rather extreme lesson imparted from a Stone What Teaches Holders How To Dark Knight, but effective... right? Jetrauben posted:And because they are a good person, this bothers them, a lot! The WoL doesn't want to kill people, but they have to. They don't want to spread pain, but they must. Hogama fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 01:51
|
|
|
I mean, if any job rock is going to be a bit extreme for what it teaches it may as well be the Dark Knight stone. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 02:18
|
|
|
Hogama posted:What I got out of it was that the Job Stones are, in fact, at least minor artifacts that are capable of some pretty weird effects beyond their more "mundane" uses. Dark Knight's isn't even the only one - as bad the story was, Paladin's can do that dumb Highlander thing. The spanner in the work is Kheris herself - the vast majority of anybody who has a Job Stone does not actually have the Echo, nor do they have an unusually large personal store of aether to draw upon (which is one of the canon explanations for why the WoL can teleport so freely compared to the common person). Sid has never seen such a dramatic effect from his time as a Dark Knight, but rather than having a more special rock than anybody else, I believe it's more that what might simply be dark mental whispers at best to Sid get to jumble around and coalesce due to Kheris's more unique qualities. As noted, not only does this not have to mean that they're necessarily large aspects taking form, but Kheris overcomes both - yes, she REALLY DOES actually like helping people, no, she REALLY DOESN'T want to wallow in what could have been. But the impulses are part of her all the same. I think this is explicit, because we lacked a teacher for the job stone we created one from ourselves via the techniques of the Job Stone that normally kill people who pick it up unprepared. Also the basic function of Job Stones is pretty weird anyway, since they store the aetheric signature of users techniques and then later on let you draw on them to speed up training via replicating past users skills.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 02:24
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:Breaking News: we've just received footage of Zenos after he received a Dark Knight's Soul and accidentally made a shadowy version of himself out of his trauma: Tai Lungs hits a lot of the Zenos checkmarks, huh? Either him or Boros from One Punch Man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
Hogama posted:What I got out of it was that the Job Stones are, in fact, at least minor artifacts that are capable of some pretty weird effects beyond their more "mundane" uses. Dark Knight's isn't even the only one - as bad the story was, Paladin's can do that dumb Highlander thing. I glossed over it because I was literally out of room in the post almost, but Sid actually specifically brings up the Paladin CHALLENGE OF AUTHORITY thing when he and Rielle are musing about how Soul Crystals are weird and nobody fully comprehends what they're capable of. Beyond what they talked about, the Warrior's Soul seems to have the ability to actively regulate the carrier's emotional state to a degree since we saw "the ancestors" helping to keep the Inner Beast in check or agitate it to one degree or another during training. Since we ultimately learned that the true nature of the inner beast is the instinct to protect, that's pretty interesting (and possibly scary) to think about. The Scholar's Soul is basically a computer capable of producing a fully-functioning AI in the form of a fairy that seems to have its own will and emotions independent of the user. I can't think of any weird properties any others have displayed off the top of my head, but its certainly ground the story could return to any time the writers have a clever idea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I glossed over it because I was literally out of room in the post almost, but Sid actually specifically brings up the Paladin CHALLENGE OF AUTHORITY thing when he and Rielle are musing about how Soul Crystals are weird and nobody fully comprehends what they're capable of. Beyond what they talked about, the Warrior's Soul seems to have the ability to actively regulate the carrier's emotional state to a degree since we saw "the ancestors" helping to keep the Inner Beast in check or agitate it to one degree or another during training. Since we ultimately learned that the true nature of the inner beast is the instinct to protect, that's pretty interesting (and possibly scary) to think about. The Scholar's Soul is basically a computer capable of producing a fully-functioning AI in the form of a fairy that seems to have its own will and emotions independent of the user. I can't think of any weird properties any others have displayed off the top of my head, but its certainly ground the story could return to any time the writers have a clever idea. Several of them are very much choosey about who they'll work with at least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 03:38
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I glossed over it because I was literally out of room in the post almost, but Sid actually specifically brings up the Paladin CHALLENGE OF AUTHORITY thing when he and Rielle are musing about how Soul Crystals are weird and nobody fully comprehends what they're capable of. Beyond what they talked about, the Warrior's Soul seems to have the ability to actively regulate the carrier's emotional state to a degree since we saw "the ancestors" helping to keep the Inner Beast in check or agitate it to one degree or another during training. Since we ultimately learned that the true nature of the inner beast is the instinct to protect, that's pretty interesting (and possibly scary) to think about. The Scholar's Soul is basically a computer capable of producing a fully-functioning AI in the form of a fairy that seems to have its own will and emotions independent of the user. I can't think of any weird properties any others have displayed off the top of my head, but its certainly ground the story could return to any time the writers have a clever idea. Or things like the BLM and WHM's job stones helping manipulate and/or absorb enviromental aether and compress it for use. On top of that all of them also allow memories to be pressed into them and read from them. There's a lot of Rocks That Do poo poo To Memories in this game that has some possible bearing on what exactly they ARE, but i feel like that's a conversation for much later sadly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 04:03
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I glossed over it because I was literally out of room in the post almost, but Sid actually specifically brings up the Paladin CHALLENGE OF AUTHORITY thing when he and Rielle are musing about how Soul Crystals are weird and nobody fully comprehends what they're capable of. Beyond what they talked about, the Warrior's Soul seems to have the ability to actively regulate the carrier's emotional state to a degree since we saw "the ancestors" helping to keep the Inner Beast in check or agitate it to one degree or another during training. Since we ultimately learned that the true nature of the inner beast is the instinct to protect, that's pretty interesting (and possibly scary) to think about. The Scholar's Soul is basically a computer capable of producing a fully-functioning AI in the form of a fairy that seems to have its own will and emotions independent of the user. I can't think of any weird properties any others have displayed off the top of my head, but its certainly ground the story could return to any time the writers have a clever idea. The only other weird kind of Soul Crystal I can think of are the ones that are pretty much empty because they don't really have any experience to draw upon and you have to freshly fill them, like Machinist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 04:09
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Or things like the BLM and WHM's job stones helping manipulate and/or absorb enviromental aether and compress it for use. On top of that all of them also allow memories to be pressed into them and read from them. There's a lot of Rocks That Do poo poo To Memories in this game that has some possible bearing on what exactly they ARE, but i feel like that's a conversation for much later sadly. f I recall I think WHM really goes for the whole "Memories of Job" thing in the crystal
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 07:11
|
|
|
Dragoon had Prince Haldrath show up and teach you a move personally, didn't it? And Whm's A-Towa-Cant showed up to hold the line during the Greenwrath. They might not be as... personable as Fray and Myste, but Drk doesn't have a monopoly on Weird poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 00:18
|
|
|
I remembered today that the Bard Soulstone teaches you how to be an actual musician, not just the relevant magic and combat techniques.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 01:46
|
|
|
dyslexicfaser posted:Dragoon had Prince Haldrath show up and teach you a move personally, didn't it? Do you remember what quest that was, because I have absolutely no recollection of that happening. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 01:48
|
|
|
Like Clockwork posted:Do you remember what quest that was, because I have absolutely no recollection of that happening. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
I still can't get over Estinien surrendering his body to Nidhogg, getting smacked REALLY hard, disappearing for a stretch of time, and then reappearing as normal in MSQ and being like "Yeah, I got over all of that demonic possession in therapy."
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 02:07
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I remembered today that the Bard Soulstone teaches you how to be an actual musician, not just the relevant magic and combat techniques. Well it teaches you how to play music, not to be an actual musician 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 04:09
|
|
|
Bad news everyone: after working on it all weekend, I had to surrender and split the finale into two chapters. Good news everyone: you're getting two chapters *checks clock* tonight!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 10:24
|
|
|
Oh boy, two updates of chewable scenery.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 10:33
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:Good news everyone: you're getting two chapters *checks clock* tonight! gently caress, I've already stayed up too late. I better go to bed now before you post them and stay up even later reading them!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 10:43
|
|
|
Gee, Sanguinia! How come Yoshi-P lets you post TWO chapters?
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 12:38
|
|
|
Blueberry Pancakes posted:I still can't get over Estinien surrendering his body to Nidhogg, getting smacked REALLY hard, disappearing for a stretch of time, and then reappearing as normal in MSQ and being like "Yeah, I got over all of that demonic possession in therapy." Yeah, I definitely like the idea of bringing job-quest characters into the main story, but Estinien was an odd choice for it.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 01:23
|
|
|
Counterpoint: Estinien rules
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 01:29
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:Counterpoint: Estinien rules It's true, it's why I married him.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 01:49
|
|
|
There's kind of a "why can't I quit you" thing between Estinien and Nidhogg. I cant say I'm a big fan of it, but it's definitely there. Whereas what happened to Thancred is downright violation.
Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 02:26 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 02:13
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:There's kind of a "why can't I quit you" thing between Estinien and Nidhogg. I cant say I'm a big fan of it, but it's definitely there. He knew he had to double dip to get his Bankai unlocked. I support him in his efforts cause it's a little sexy when he just blows up half a fortress for you.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 02:17
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:As you've correctly identified in the past - the Dark Knight class is power by love. Holy poo poo. The winning 'joke' weapon for DRK from the weapon design contest makes perfect sense in this context.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 04:11
|
|
|
Estinien is not who I would have chosen for 30-50 job characters to bring into the main story, for many reasons, but he made a good show out of it, so it worked out.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 05:29
|
|
|
Chapter 44: The End of Heartache When the final phase of Stormblood's MSQ begins, the Warrior of Light is given a task by Raubahn. He wants a parcel delivered to Pipin, who has taken command of the artillery near the gate. This comes with a minor change to the overworld, a dull roar that plays over the music and typical sound effects. It grows louder as the player approaches the gates of Ala Mhigo. No doubt this is meant to represent the Alliance army, though it sounds like the kind of shout they would make literal moments before charging. It's a little incongruous that we're not quite ready to do that yet. Kheris reaches Pipin and hands over the package. I had a pretty good idea of what it would be, as should anyone who's read a book before, but it's still a cute moment.  Pipin explains that his father's weapon was forged from the shattered pieces of two cursed swords. One of his greatest opponents in the Blood Sands nearly killed him with the originals, and he used their remains to create a blade with the power of fire. One could presume this was an exercise in populism on Raubahn's part, an artifact of his efforts to make himself into a legend for the sake of fortune and political power. In Ul'dah, few symbols are as revered as flame. It is given a place of honor on the city sigil, equal on Nald'Thal's scale to a gemstone representing wealth. However, Pipin thinks his dad also took the significance of a flame-powered weapon seriously. The Bull of Ala Mhigo often spoke to his boy about how Tizona's flames granted him rebirth as much as they consumed his enemies. Now he's bequeathed that weapon, and all it stands for, to his heir. Side note, Tizona is the real-life name of one of the two swords of El Cid, Medieval Spain's most famed knight and warlord. The name is a feminized form of tizon, meaning 'firebrand,' which is appropriate. Logic suggests that Raubahn's remaining sword is named after El Cid's Colada, a feminized play on acero colado, or 'cast steel.' The implication of Raubahn's action here is obvious, but Pip isn't about to let this be the day his dad dies. To emphasize that point, he slings the sword onto his back, which on a Lalafel looks more like a zweihander than a gladius meant for dual wielding. Before we can discuss that further, a scout reports that a flanking force has appeared on the far side of the city. They intend to hit the artillery before we can attack the walls. Worse, this is no ordinary unit. They are the Ferae Domitae, an elite levy made up entirely of conscripted Lupin from Doma. Alphinaud sees a tragedy in the making and offers to intervene. He reasons that the Lupin hold no loyalty to the Empire despite their place within the Crown Prince's Legion. Their people have served the royal house of Doma since its founding and only submitted because their families back home were hostages. If they learn that Hien has reclaimed the throne, they will lay down their arms. We intercept the Lupin formation a short distance from our staging ground. Their Centurion is a giant, head and shoulders taller than the others, and he is in no mood to talk.  Alphi tries anyway, declaring that we saw firsthand the return of Hien and the fall of Yotsuyu, but this only manages to piss the guy off. The Centurion, who will soon identify himself as Hakuro Whitefang, is sure that Hien is dead. Our attempt to invoke his fallen lord and tempt the Lupin to treason is gravely dishonorable. That said, we are telling him what he wants to hear, so he proposes that if our words are true, we can prove it on the battlefield. To say Alphi is annoyed by having to fight to prove that we don't need to fight would be an understatement. Still, he knows what's at stake and gives it everything he's got, helping Kheris take on the vanguard and face their leader in single (double?) combat. Hakuro is a Samurai in the Doman tradition, meaning no iajutsu, but he still wields an extensive repertoire of magically enhanced sword techniques.  To secure our victory, Alphi shows off a new ability of his own, exchanging his signature Obsidian Carbuncle for one of the enormous Moonstone ones I first saw in Idlyshire. Someone is reading Kheris' reports! The summon significantly boosts Alphi's offensive power, so we make short work of the Whitefang. When Hakuro yields, we tell him the whole story of the Battle of Doma Castle. He can scarcely express his joy that Hien lives and his home has thrown down their Imperial masters, but the loss of Gosetsu weighs on him. Kheris repeats that Doman motto we heard several times from our favorite Roe, "Eyes forward," encouraging the wolfman to leave his mourning until after the battle is won. Hakuro smiles, saying she must have known Gosetsu very well. The Lupin plan to spread the news and promise that once the Alliance breaches the city, they will turn their cloaks and join our side. We relay this to Pipin, who takes it as his cue to strike before the Empire can make another move to interfere. Phase one of the attack on the gate calls for the help of the Thaumaturge Guild, led by Guildmaster Cocobuki in a delightful cameo. They unleash a torrent of aetheric fire and ice on the gate.  …  If there's one thing Saturday Morning Cartoons taught me, it's that super-heating then freezing metal makes it brittle. It's a fun addition to the artillery strike, especially since it serves as a reminder that the protagonists' magical aptitude is one of their few advantages over the Garleans. Of course, our other advantage is THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, which the next sequence puts on display. A row of guns, alternating between traditional canon brought by the Maelstrom and the distinctive four-barrel Big Berthas we came to know in Ishgard, begin bombarding the weakened doorway. The volley is interrupted by a flight of Magitek air units swooping over the wall. They strafe our lines, sending soldiers scattering in every direction. The situation looks bleak… until the cavalry arrives!  Hien has clearly been taking some lessons from Magnai because he cuts one of the mini-airships in half with a single strike of his katana. Aymeric immediately starts fanboying over that once he thinks nobody is looking, which is fantastic. The other Yol, ridden by a group of shinobi that includes Yugiri, break formation and start dogfighting with the Garleans. Pipin doesn't hesitate to order the guns back to firing, and with a few more shots, we have our entrance. Soldiers press through and secure our foothold inside the city. Kheris takes a few moments to inspect the main body of troops, who mumble to themselves, say prayers, and get into a headspace appropriate for the most important fight of their lives. At the head of the column, she finds Raubahn, who pulls her aside for a final word. She excepts her friend to wish her good luck or thank her again for helping him accomplish this dream. Instead, he echoes Lucia's counsel from earlier.  There's no time to think about this grim advice because Pipin calls her over and issues official orders on behalf of Alliance Command: the Warrior of Light is to assemble an elite unit, infiltrate the palace, and eliminate Zenos yae Galvus. The moment of truth is here. ~*~*~ I had thought a lot about how I wanted to face Zenos in our final duel. Would I follow Lyse's example and don the robes of an Ala Mhigan Monk to take the nation he'd terrorized into the fight with me? Take up my rapier as a Red Mage and defy the fate of my previous defeats to strike down a man who has brought untold violence and suffering? Match his legendary katana as a Samurai and stake my honor on ending this Age of Blood? Ultimately, that final Job questline made Dark Knight the clear choice. Kheris is going to fight Zenos, but she must also confront his declaration that they are the same. In that regard, love will be her greatest weapon. All the armor and a big goddamn sword won't hurt, either. The grand finale begins with the level 70 Dungeon, known simply as Ala Mhigo. The introduction shows Raubahn, Pipin, and a force of Alliance soldiers rushing the Garlean defenders, with your team hot on their heels. If you look around during the first few pulls, you'll be able to see them engaging XIIth Legion forces. It's far from the only cameo to be found if you're observant.  …  The first phase of the dungeon is another round of urban warfare. Your party fights to penetrate the Imperial defenses, a series of Magitek-enhanced barricades guarded by waves of troopers and supported by mechanized forces. There's nothing here we haven't seen before, even accounting for the experimental models from Castrum Abania reappearing. Still, it's worth noting that everything is significantly tougher than in any of their previous appearances. This is fitting not only because it's the last dungeon of the expansion but because of the XIIth's elite status, so we can reasonably credit their power as a nice bit of mechanical storytelling. Another point of interest is the fact that the city itself is far less Garleanized than we've tended to see across Ala Mhigo. The Empire has consistently treated settlements with complete neglect or aggressive parasitism, grafting their technology onto the original architecture in a stark and unpleasant fashion. These streets, by comparison, are clean and well-maintained, and the only evidence of the Garlean presence (portable barricades aside) are electric street lamps, generators to power them, and Imperial banners. When we liberated the city slums, an NPC mentioned that most of that area was new construction. It was built quickly and cheaply to serve as a ghetto for those who were not Imperial citizens. The relatively light touch in the older and nicer parts of the city may represent the carrot that came with that stick. We've seen that Gaius wanted to win over the natives, and leaving the homes of loyalists relatively untouched other than an objective improvement like modern lighting would be an easy gesture. At the end of the initial defenses, a shinobi warns the party of a "Scorpion," that we should attack when its tail is up. This turns out to be a new Magitek tank.  The dialogue and the design allude to one of that handful of franchise references I know, Final Fantasy 7's iconic Guard Scorpion. Cloud famously trains the player wrong The other wrinkle this boss introduces is tracking targets. Usually, when a baddy wants to lob out an AOE, the area will be randomized or based on where one or more players are standing when the ability starts casting. Here the reticule will follow the player for a bit before locking in place, giving you the power to manipulate where the Scorpion lays down his long-lasting fire zones. This is essential because as his HP drops, the Scorpion's tail laser increasingly overlaps with the bombs. It's a fun little battle. When the Scorpion falls, we enter the palace grounds, a gorgeous, wide-open area filled with enemies, perfect for a satisfying mass pull. Or rather, that's what one would think if they weren't paying attention to how heavy cannons surround the central path. A reckless player (this is not an admission of guilt) would find that, just when they'd collected all the baddies, there is a sudden need to start dodging a colossal number of AOE attacks. A player guilty of such recklessness (unlike myself) would need some very on-the-ball DPS and healers to survive such a blunder. At the end of this pseudo-gauntlet, a helpful Ishgardian knight commandeers one of the guns and blasts you a path to the second boss. It's a familiar face to me, even though Kheris has never met him.  Lord Aulus is a charming boss, and not just because he fights us while doing a Gendo Pose in his big comfy chair. He summons our old friend, the Magitek Bit, but his are the most advanced models we've seen in a while, capable of rapid repositioning and working together to deploy complex geometric attack patterns rather than the simple lines and circles the things usually shoot. He also has a move called Demimagicks, which appears to be simulated thaumaturgical spells fired by an invention built into his hoverchair. Fitting for one of the Empire's finest scientific minds. His most impressive ability, the Mindjack, is also new tech. He must have developed it by studying Krile's Echo because it blasts our bodies with an aetheric wave that forcibly separates our souls from our flesh.  This crazy move is backed up by prototype Deathclaws capable of incapacitating our disembodied spirits. The player must flee from these machines and avoid the continued attacks from the Bits to reclaim their bodies and finish the fight. When Aulus falls, it's with a smile on his face. His last words are to express amazement at our performance in the battle, as we far exceeded expectations based on his data. It was a moment that left me with a pang of regret that his death meant nothing to Kheris. He was just a nameless science man standing in her path. It mirrors the problem with Gryne in Doma Castle. I, the player, know that Aulus is a monster, and I'm satisfied that he got what was coming to him, but the Warrior of Light doesn't know him from Adam. She didn't hear his supremacist rants or see him turn her friend into a guinea pig. If he'd been the voice taunting us in the laboratories of Castrum Abania, there would have at least been something, but he wasn't. Such a waste. The final path to the throne room is an exceptional set piece. Magitek Laserfields seal the various corridors. As we attempt to shatter the generators, guards on other platforms unload spells and gunfire into us while infantry and Magitek constructs move in for the kill. The full weight of the Garlean military is attempting to crush our charge toward their leader in these pulls, and it's incredibly cool. The legionnaires encourage each other, saying that justice is on their side and they can yet prevail. They even worry about what their enemy might have done to their good friend Lord Aulus. In the background, Hien and Yugiri hold back an even greater tide of foes, buying their friend the time she needs to complete her mission. It's bombastic and dramatic, the section of the dungeon by far most worthy of its excellent theme music,  "Liberty or Death."After a long struggle, Kheris strikes down a final pair of old-school Colossi and enters the Chamber of the Griffin. There, upon the throne, her enemy awaits.  There is no music as he rises. No sound but the gentle clank of his armor's plates as he strides toward her. It's as if the world is holding its breath. His scabbard spins. His hand draws the white sword. The time for preamble and restraint is over. "Like a moth to the flame…" he declares as she charges. "But why else would you come, if not for this?" Every ability Zenos had in your previous battles returns here. Lightless Spark, Veinsplitter, Art of the Sword, and the ability to summon clones that can mimic these moves all reappear with more or less the same functions they had before. He also freely draws his other two swords, Storm and Swell, which can inflict paralysis and knock the group into a field of energy he's placed on the perimeter to force you to fight him up close. The sense that you're facing Zenos at his true potential is conveyed flawlessly, not only through his abilities being faster and stronger than you've ever seen them but just through how he fights. Gone is the languid, lazy stalking we saw the last two times we clashed. He is swift, calculating, and predatory. The way he flows from technique to technique is seamless, with little downtime between each blow. He's not throwing these attacks out to see how you react to them or to toy with you. He intends to kill you and is holding nothing back. I had feared that a dungeon boss fought by a group couldn't feel satisfying after all the buildup that presaged this confrontation. I've never been happier to be proven wrong. Granted, it helped that I came in as a tank and therefore got the sense that I was his focus. Zenos seems equally pleased, especially when he shouts his wish for this moment to last forever. At the battle's climax, he begs the Warrior of Light to show him her full power. He raises a barrier, throws out all three swords, and begins filling them with aether. The party must shatter the connection before this process is complete or die.  When we succeed, Zenos asks if Kheris has 'the strength and power to transcend' and compliments the 'glorious violence' within her. Then he starts spamming Concentrativity, the move that defeated her twice, until he falls. As a dungeon, Ala Mhigo parallels Doma Castle both mechanically and literarily. A running battle against the Imperial army through an occupied fortress, the sense of momentum as the hero boldly thrusts into the heart of the enemy, the urgency that comes from this being the decisive battle that everything you've done hinges on, the use of bosses that will resonate with the player on that emotional level, the sense of scale and spectacle, all of these are presented exquisitely in both dungeons. If I had to make a hard and fast pick on which one does an overall better job, it would have to be Doma, but mainly because it came first and was therefore more novel. There is a definite feeling that you're retreading familiar ground in Ala Mhigo. That said, the Zenos fight stands tall even compared to the excellent battle against Grynewaht. On that point, it is more than worthy of ending an expansion that excelled in dungeon design. ~*~*~ Zenos' fall is momentary. Only a single knee hits the ground before he rights himself, smirks, and falls back.    He informs Kheris that she was not the only one gathering strength for this day. He bids her to follow him outside. "The heavens shall bear witness to our dance." As he departs, he smiles again, but this one is different from before, so much so that Kheris reacts with surprise when she sees it. This time there is no glee, no mania, no battle lust. This smile almost seems to convey… warmth.  The Warrior of Light races after her foe and finds herself in a beautiful open-air garden. There awaits the one thing I wasn't expecting.  Zenos coyly explains that this place was once the King of Ruin's royal menagerie. The animals he inherited when he became Viceroy bored him, so he donated a more 'divine' specimen. I recognize the black and silver pattern on the devices restraining it from the hull of Omega. The Crown Prince notes how Shinryu was born not from myth but pure hate and a lust for violence. To him, it is poetry made manifest.  Kheris glares at this comment and its implications, which prompts a wholly unexpected response from Zenos: he apologizes, saying 'this sensation' has left him a bit out of sorts. Admittedly his tone never loses its haughty arrogance or borderline drunken exuberance. Yet once I understood what sensation he was referring to, I would wonder if there wasn't some sincerity in those words. He changes topics, asking what Kheris would do if he stood aside and left Shinryu to her. After what she's uncovered about the Ascians, the nature of the Binding Coils, the Internment Hulks, and even Ultima Weapon and its Heart of Sabik, she can only answer that she would destroy it. It's the answer he expected. After all, the Warrior of Light is renowned as a slayer of gods. By now, it must be second nature to destroy them. But there is another way. The Echo, he claims, is the true solution.   This is a huge revelation, even though it's borderline obvious the moment he says it. Loiusoix spoke of this very thing, the Tempering of a Primal, when he explained his enslavement to Bahamut. It is easy to forget how the Echo was first described to us: the power to touch the souls of others. That is how it translates languages, grants near-precognitive abilities to see movement, and conveys empathic sensations and visions of memories. All we are being told here is that the power to resist Tempering is not some second ability but another form of the first. When the soul of a Primal tries to take hold of ours, we force it back with the same 'hand' that lets us brush against others' minds. Zenos took that logic to its next step and realized that if our hand could push and brush, it could also grasp. A sufficiently powerful Echo User can control the Gods just as the Gods control ordinary men. There is, of course, a potential extension of this line of thinking. An Echo User may be able to temper other people. I imagine Kheris thinks it best not to speak such a thought out loud lest she breathes life into a reality that should never exist. While our hero's mind races from this new information, Zenos continues to rant. He reveals that his great-grandfather, Emperor Solus, felt the same way about Eikons as Kheris. At some time near the dawn of his Empire, the man bore firsthand witness to a summoning. That creature wrought such destruction that in its wake that Solus swore to see every one of its kind erased. Thus began the Empire's march across Ilsabard and the world, for only Garlean enlightenment and civilization could scour the foolish superstitions that birthed the monsters we call Gods.   (Man, Zenos' voice actor, Luke Allen-Gale, has absolutely zero chill. I love it!  )After endless twists and turns, here is where we finally begin to see what dark truth lies at the heart of Zenos yae Galvus. For so long, I pondered his contradictions. His capacity for mercy and to uplift those he deems worthy seemingly without prejudice, aside from his foundational beliefs. His callous bloodthirst and casual embrace of genocide and cataclysm. His ability to accept or discard people, tools, and methods, both good and evil, without hesitation in pursuit of his goals. His seemingly genuine attachment to Fordola and the most storied swords of the East. With these words, I began to form his pieces into a coherent whole. Zenos, I believe, is a nihilist who hates the fact that he is a nihilist. His ability, genius, might, and privilege have led so many things in his life to be effortless that he can only conclude that everything is hollow and empty. What can have value if one never had to struggle to obtain it? It's not a surprising train of thought when one considers that he is the product of a fascist, racially supremacist society—the man who is supposed to one day sit at its head, no less! Many of the real-world antecedents to Garlean ideals were deeply invested in the notion that eternal conflict was the very thing that produced the Master Race. Just look at this quote from Arthur Schopenhauer, one of the founding fathers of the theory of racial hierarchy: quote:"The highest civilizations and culture, apart from the Ancient Indians and Egyptians, are found exclusively among the white races […] All this is because necessity is the mother of invention. Those tribes that emigrated early to the north and there gradually became white, had to develop all their intellectual powers and invent and perfect all the arts in their struggle with need, want and misery, which in their many forms were brought about by the climate. This they had to do in order to make up for the parsimony of nature and out of it all came their high civilization." Gaius himself expressed the view that it is the nature of Mankind to "raise himself through conflict." It's not a coincidence that a non-Garlean can only become a citizen by being a soldier or that their little origin myth is about how their genius society invented Magitek to retaliate against the barbarians that had bullied them for untold generations. I noted in the last chapter that because their roots are in an icy northern land, there is probably a historical parallel between Garlemald and Ala Mhigo and the territorial wars between Russia and Persia. Based on this other evidence, I'd say there's also some Nazi Nordicism in that Imperial Stew. Despite society's influence pushing him toward a bleak outlook on the world, it seems equally clear that the idea of things having worth is not completely foreign to Zenos. Thanks to his position, he has seen every pleasure the world has to offer. He knows there are treasures, and even people, that have value. That's why he is drawn to katanas and warriors of great repute, whether to fight them or recruit them into his legion. But such things always come to him without the whole of his ability being brought to bear, so they cannot fill the void. The only thing that ever forced him to strain himself is fighting, and even there, it has been infrequent and predicated on the simple fact of his mortality. That is why he has immersed himself so totally in war, that most chaotic form of combat where no soldier is so powerful that they are immune to danger. It's why he's lived for the time between the seconds and dedicated himself to engineering a worthy enemy no matter the cost. This feeling is also why he disparages animal instinct and frames his love of violence as the fruit of Mankind's intellect. He doesn't have a death wish or think life is pointless. On the contrary, he understands that the one life we have to live is precious. No wonder he let Gryne live out of admiration for his desire to do so. No wonder the one time he was genuinely disappointed in Fordola was when she'd resigned herself to die without a fight. Zenos, a man who had everything from birth, desires the most universal thing imaginable. He wants that precious life to include the one thing it's been denied because of his greatness. He wants meaning. All this adds fascinating subtext to what happens next:  The Warrior of Light is given two possible answers to this question: "I Deny You," or "I Accept You." I was stunned when I saw this choice. Zenos has always referred to the Warrior of Light as an animal. Time and again, he's talked of her sharpening her claws, of her savagery, of how their great clash would be a hunt, that his only goal was to train her to be a quarry worth contending with. But none of that was the truth. The truth was that warm little smile he cast over his shoulder as he led her to this courtyard. At some point, he realized that his Royal Hunt would not target an animal but the proverbial Deadliest Game. Kheris is still the enemy who will give him the challenge he desperately needs. But she is also the first creature besides himself (except perhaps Fordola) that he's recognized as a human being. And in his sick, sad mind, that can only mean we are friends.   In an ironic turn, given the palace's visual reference to ancient Babylon, we have reenacted a small piece of the Epic of Gilgamesh. The king, who is more god than mortal, brought terror to the land through his cruel self-indulgence. The warrior of the wilderness, crafted by the gods, lived among the beasts and knew nothing of civilization. A battle between them that will change the fate of the world. Or, as Herbert Mason so eloquently put it when describing his definitive translation of the text: "Gilgamesh was called a god and a man; Enkidu was an animal and a man. It is the story of their becoming human together." I agonized over this dialogue choice. If I hadn't had people watching me play, I could have sat there thinking about it for an hour. It felt like one of the most important things the game had ever presented to me. This moment was the climax of the Stormblood story. The conflict between Zenos and the Warrior of Light has cast a shadow over two continents and shaped the destinies of every other major character. In my emergent narrative, it sent the protagonist into an existential crisis. What, in the end, did she learn about herself? What is her answer to the question, "Am I a bad person?" In the end, the choice was obvious.  Zenos is right. She is like him. She loves the rush of blood. Battle excites her, and despite the stakes she often fights for, she finds a fundamental joy in the act. She loves a challenge and feels dissatisfaction and emptiness when something comes too easily. She has known the temptation to embrace might making right, has been guilty of dehumanizing her enemies, has taken life on a horrific scale, and readily justified it all based on her ideals and the rightness of her cause. Zenos has crossed lines she never has and never would, but she cannot deny that they are, on some level, the same. Yet those parts of her are not the whole. Kheris Kilrau is no more Zenos than she is Esteem or Myste. Her Dark Knight's Soul reminded her that she is made up of many pieces. Some are ugly, warped, and capable of great evil despite noble intent. But she cannot hate herself for possessing those faults. To be a healthy person and the hero the world needs her to be, she must forgive her imperfections and give herself the same compassion she so readily offers others. The first step is accepting those things she fears and loathes about herself, which means accepting Zenos. He is not some abomination or monster. He is a human being with inherent value, regardless of all the horrors he has wrought. Acknowledging that does not require her to shrink from her responsibility to stop or punish him. The Crown Prince takes her words as an offer of pardon for his endless crimes. By his mocking tone, he even thinks it was a feigned one that we both know was a waste of breath. It is just as well, I suppose. Kheris has filled her heart with love and compassion, but she still came as a Dark Knight. The time to bring justice has arrived. Zenos couldn't be happier to oblige her. This is the great battle he's awaited all his life, which means it is time to show his trump card. The shackles around Shinryu burst. The dragon awakens, gathering energy to strike when he senses our presence.  Zenos is ready.  …    …  Crimson aether surges around Zenos as he rises like a sun. Shinryu screams in agony, and then his tormentor vanishes. There is a beat… then the Prince's voice fills the air.  I would be lying by omission if I didn't say that this turn of events disappointed me slightly. After the emotional high of that dialogue choice, I wanted the final battle to be one last incredible sword duel. I was hoping that instead of possessing Shinryu, Zenos would devour him and take on a monstrous humanoid form in the vein of Nidhogg-possessed Estinien. I should have known they wouldn't design a monster only to never use it for a fight. The moment was similar to when I felt Fordola should have been the Trial Boss at Level 67 rather than the anti-climatic Lakshmi. I guess there's an unwritten rule that Trial Bosses (and/or Final Fantasy Campaign Bosses) have to be giant creatures. Shinryu flies off toward a series of narrow walkways and towers just beyond a gilded gate. This strange turn of events ultimately changes nothing. Zenos must be stopped because he is a threat to the world, and this madness only changes the nature of that threat. All that remains is for Kheris to face him… just as soon as seven other people show up to help. At least it's a nice place to wait. 
Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 10:43 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 05:59
|
|
|
If you haven't heard Zenos' voice quotes in Ala Mhigo, here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPA_HmEMEj0 It becomes REALLY obvious he's enjoying himself.  I don't know if it's ever outright said, but I do believe the Royal Menagerie was supposed to be full of ravenous monsters from Theoderic's collection and Zenos killed them all, only to find them lacking. Alternatively, it could've been regular domesticated animals which he would've found boring for an entirely different reason. Also, I do believe that Gaius is the first person whose name Zenos actually uses, which is interesting. For as little interest as Zenos has in the politics of the Empire, he does seem to have at least some modicum of respect for his predecessor. I suppose it's possible the name was used merely to convey who he was talking about in a more organic way, but he could've said "The Black Wolf" and conveyed the same information. Maybe I'm just reading into things too much. Also, there's at least one Trial that isn't a giant monster, but I'm probably the only person that remembers and/or likes Nabriales as an antagonist. 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 06:36 on May 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:10
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:At the end of this pseudo-gauntlet, a helpful Ishgardian knight commandeers one of the guns and blasts you a path to the second boss. It's a familiar face to me, even though Kheris has never met him. 
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
Ala Mhigowns. The Lord Aulus fight is a bit of a "could have had more emotional weight to it" point in the whole spectacle, but Ala Mhigo is such a wonderful loving capstone to the 4.0 Storyline. It's the culmination of two continent-spanning campaigns pushing forward, inch by bloody inch, and it makes you feel the weight of it as you press on. As you might expect, people are... divided about Zenos, for a multitude of reasons, but I would wager that they all come back to this central point - do you accept that there is a part of you that is like Zenos, chasing the thrill of battle and the lofty peak of existence that can only be attained in the moments between heartbeats? Also, fun fact: This version of the Guard Scorpion here is apparently the same one they used at the start of Final Fantasy 7: Remake. They gave it a bit of a touch-up but it's still the same model and rig, supposedly.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:32
|
|
|
Ala Mhigo is a really cool dungeons that I've only done like three times, ever. For whatever reason, it is the dungeon that comes up least often in roulettes, I guess maybe because it's a capstone that's outside the free trial? Who could say. Anyway, yeah Zenos' whole... relationship with the WoL is very controversial, to say the least. I love it though, some people just can't appreciate a good villainous mirror.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 04:28 |
|
|
The charge through Ala Mhigo is a great spectacle, not least of which because of all the blink and you'll miss them cameos. For example, if you run off right after defeating the Scorpion, you'll miss that Aymeric and and his personal guard are running up right behind you. As a dungeon it is also in rare company, as there is a small chance to obtain a mount from the chest at the end. A pretty good reason to run the place repeatedly for the benefit of other newcomers, but in this case you could also obtain it from the current mogtome event if you don't feel like spending a bunch of time running a dungeon over and over. And yeah, the EN voicework for Zenos is completely off the chain at the climax here and it is wonderful.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2023 06:42
|
|
