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Generally speaking Werewolf has been desperately low on guys standing round shirtless in the moonlight for no apparent reason. (I went through basically every piece of WoD art to do Exalted Vs. WoD Revised, and let me tell you that franchise has a critical hunk deficit. I suppose you could compare it to the way Ascension completely missed the "magic school" boat.
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May 2, 2023 22:10
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Some of that might be chalked up to the biggest Woof artists (your Ron Spencer, your Steve Prescotts, etc.) didn't draw the most conventionally attractive people. They were fine - even great - for Werewolf, but they had a distinct look.
Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 22:13
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I think what I'm really missing from those pictures is some action. They're just four people standing on a white page with almost no context to what they are up to. I bought Hunter: The Reckoning recently (super mixed feeling after finishing that off) and it also has a very similar art style, but there's either obvious backgrounds the characters are standing in, or they are taking part in a very obvious activity which gives context to both the image and what a player should expect a hunter to be doing. Yes, a werewolf might not always looked like a jacked-beast, that's fine. But, what do they do when they aren't (I actually don't know the answer to this, never played WtA)? You don't need 4 people on that page, just one person doing something to show how these types of werewolves interact with the world.
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May 2, 2023 22:24
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Four random humans is appropriate for the Glass Walkers more than any other tribe.
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May 2, 2023 22:26
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Ultimately I think it just comes out to "we decided to do four people each for twelve tribes, and that's not compatible with each person doing something interesting". This, and the extreme realism of the reboot's art style, have kind of hamstrung them.
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May 2, 2023 22:31
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It's far from the worst thing about it, but they really did Matua Tāme dirty, fashion-wise (even ignoring the fact that they absolutely appropriated his mana by reproducing his moko without his explicit permission). But yeah, without getting into complex discussion around wearing pākehā (European-style) clothing in Te Ao Māori, Tāme Iti is one of the most stylish dudes I've ever met.  Just chucking him in paint stained overalls because he's an artist is a bit... Insulting. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 22:44 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 22:34
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I think what I'm really missing from those pictures is some action. They're just four people standing on a white page with almost no context to what they are up to. I bought Hunter: The Reckoning recently (super mixed feeling after finishing that off) and it also has a very similar art style, but there's either obvious backgrounds the characters are standing in, or they are taking part in a very obvious activity which gives context to both the image and what a player should expect a hunter to be doing. Yes, a werewolf might not always looked like a jacked-beast, that's fine. But, what do they do when they aren't (I actually don't know the answer to this, never played WtA)? You don't need 4 people on that page, just one person doing something to show how these types of werewolves interact with the world. That's true. Ron Spencer may draw everybody glaring and in ripped cutoffs but at least it's kinetic. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 2, 2023 |
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May 2, 2023 22:42
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It's also much easier to just slap some fangs on a dude and call it a vampire than it is to art up a crinos. And only like, two or three people from WW's old roster actually nailed the aesthetic.
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May 2, 2023 22:42
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Kurieg posted:It's also much easier to just slap some fangs on a dude and call it a vampire than it is to art up a crinos. And only like, two or three people from WW's old roster actually nailed the aesthetic. Ron Spencer defined werewolf for me.
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May 2, 2023 22:49
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The same way Abrar Ajmal defines the Forsaken look for me. I've honestly found the art very lackluster compared the varied-in-quality stuff from the 1990s to 2010.
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May 2, 2023 23:01
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cptn_dr posted:It's far from the worst thing about it, but they really did Matua Tāme dirty, fashion-wise (even ignoring the fact that they absolutely appropriated his mana by reproducing his moko without his explicit permission). It's the rare person who can wear a bowtie and still look like he Fucks
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May 3, 2023 01:49
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Abrar Ajmal is definitely my favorite Werewolf artist. The thing about the Glass Walkers we got, tracing aside, is that this "yeah it's a guy standing around" is kind of a cheap trick. Like, I don't know, let's say they show us a picture of a guy in a leather jacket smoking a cigarette. They slap this picture onto the two-pager for... ...Glass Walkers! Wow, despite being associated with tech and skyscrapers, they've probably got a whole other side of them that's kind of gritty and street level! ...Red Talons! Wow, despite being wolf-born primitivists, they can clearly learn to smoothly camouflage themselves as your average Joe! ...Silver Fangs! Ah I bet that guy is really commanding when he's off his smoke break but we all need a little air from time to time. Since basically every character type has cause to masquerade as a regular person, and since every character type has cause to play against type (imagine if the stock image was someone in a smoking jacket with a fancy cigar; still works) you can pretty much assign sufficiently-competent character art to any section of the book and get away with it. But this really points in the direction of making sure that art you make for splat spreads does, even at the cost of being stereotypical, show the viewer something specific about the splat in question.
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May 3, 2023 01:57
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Yeah, at the end of the day if your werewolf art does not show werewolves werewolfing you've fundamentally failed the assignment. It'd be just as jarring as a vampire book NOT showing larpers standing around glowering menacingly in a warehouse-for-rent.
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May 3, 2023 02:07
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Are we still keeping breeds in Woof?
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May 3, 2023 03:23
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Dawgstar posted:Some of that might be chalked up to the biggest Woof artists (your Ron Spencer, your Steve Prescotts, etc.) didn't draw the most conventionally attractive people. They were fine - even great - for Werewolf, but they had a distinct look. that's certainly putting it charitably 
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May 3, 2023 03:44
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Anonymous Zebra posted:The art-style they've chosen to go with is going to be full of these kinds of gently caress-ups, because they are essentially just using slightly stylized depictions of human photographs, which means that it's impossible for an editor to to catch this stuff unless they themselves recognize the real person that is being depicted. I didn't recognize Tāme Wairere Iti because I didn't really know about him before this happened, so I doubt that some random editor is going to have the ability to catch all of these before they hit print. There should be an editorial policy of "hey don't just trace real people" but also the artist should know better.
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May 3, 2023 09:36
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:There should be an editorial policy of "hey don't just trace real people" but also the artist should know better. I mean photoreference is a real thing and Tim Bradstreet's art for og masquerade is genre defining. But then at the other end of the spectrum, you have hacks like Greg Land over in comic art, with his portfolio of wrestlers and porn he continually recycles as art. in conclusion
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May 3, 2023 13:15
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Soonmot posted:I mean photoreference is a real thing and Tim Bradstreet's art for og masquerade is genre defining. But then at the other end of the spectrum, you have hacks like Greg Land over in comic art, with his portfolio of wrestlers and porn he continually recycles as art. in conclusion Bradstreet pays his models, I'm pretty sure. Which isn't me trying to dunk just it's been a thing he's always done.
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May 3, 2023 13:47
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Using real photos for pose reference is one thing, but this seems closer than that, by a lot.
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May 3, 2023 14:16
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Bradstreet actually gets models, puts them in costumes, takes photos, and uses those as references. This poo poo is just GIS and painting over the photo in another layer on Photoshop. Big difference, imo, but then again WW had a storied history of doing this poo poo before.
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May 3, 2023 15:50
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Yeah, if an artist gets a model and pays them thats cool. No problem there
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May 3, 2023 16:11
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:There should be an editorial policy of "hey don't just trace real people" but also the artist should know better. I mean, I assume that there is such a policy. Just like there was likely a policy about not turning in a trace of Dante from Devil May Cry for Hunter:The Vigil. Some artists just trace and try to slip it through unnoticed. My understanding is that art comes in pretty late in production (James Jacobs of Paizo mentioned even the "on time" artists get their stuff in only a few days before the hard deadline for their subscription products), so I think it's actually pretty hard to catch these things if your artist is being dishonest.
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May 3, 2023 16:20
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http://tinyurl.com/w5-preview New preview dropped, and apparently they're gonna keep updating it every few weeks. Haven't taken a look yet, but let's see what they hosed up and who they piss off this week!
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May 3, 2023 16:43
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Dawgstar posted:Are we still keeping breeds in Woof? Seems not to me, judging by the preview Fuzz posted which contains pages from the Introduction chapter. The Lexicon contains auspice and tribe but not breed, and lists homid and lupus simply as the man and wolf forms of the werewolf.
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May 3, 2023 17:28
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Fuzz posted:http://tinyurl.com/w5-preview One thing that sticks out to me here is that they don't have vocab words for the near-man and dire wolf forms, so those might either no longer exist or just be generic results of applying some sort of "diet war form" modifier to one of your basic shapes.
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May 3, 2023 17:32
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I Am Just a Box posted:Seems not to me, judging by the preview Fuzz posted which contains pages from the Introduction chapter. The Lexicon contains auspice and tribe but not breed, and lists homid and lupus simply as the man and wolf forms of the werewolf. Yeah they said very early on in a Q&A with Achilli that Breeds are completely gone and metis doesn't even exist at all anymore.
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May 3, 2023 17:33
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Fuzz posted:Yeah they said very early on in a Q&A with Achilli that Breeds are completely gone and metis doesn't even exist at all anymore. Except the Glass Walker description states The Preview posted:Naturally, this predilection for tools and technology keeps the Glass Walkers in frequent community with humans, and extraordinarily few members of the tribe have lupus origins — a number that dwindles daily.
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May 3, 2023 17:49
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A Renaissance Nerd posted:Except the Glass Walker description states Mechanically. Lupus no longer will get ridiculous stats because, "lol I'm just a wolf, your world scares and confuses me," and metis are just completely deleted from the metaplot and background entirely. They're about as meaningful as your character's nationality or gender or sexual orientation, inasmuch as any of those might matter to your RP.
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May 3, 2023 17:56
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I get the impression when they say “Breed is gone”, they mean specifically the mechanic that imposes traits based on your origin. You can say whether your Garou PC was born human/wolf/werewolf/etc, but it doesn’t affect you mechanically or impose any ableist conditions.
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May 3, 2023 18:02
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Fuzz posted:http://tinyurl.com/w5-preview quote:Gaia’s Howl: An audible indicator (capable of sometimes This is new!
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May 3, 2023 18:12
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MonsieurChoc posted:Gaia’s Howl: An audible indicator (capable of sometimes My woofwoof senses are tingling! The planet is in trouble! THEN LET OUR POWERS COMBINE! EARTH! FIRE! WIND! WATER! HEART! By your powers combined, I AM CAPTAIN PLANET! Honestly, I always through Werewolf was best when played as an incredibly violent 90s environmental cartoon. Why is dastardly Loot'n Plunder pouring toxic waste into the river? Because that's his job, duh. How do we stop him? RAGE! TheCenturion fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 18:53
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TheCenturion posted:My woofwoof senses are tingling! The planet is in trouble! I've repeatedly referred to the Garou as the "Planeteers with Rage issues" and running it as a splatterpunk environmental cartoon is extremely the poo poo I love about WtA. Hell, throw the Toxic Avenger in there and you can have yourself a Troma style environmental splatter party!
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May 3, 2023 19:08
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TheCenturion posted:My woofwoof senses are tingling! The planet is in trouble!
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May 3, 2023 20:09
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It's funny because I always imagine the Chairman of the Board of directors of Pentex to be either Dr. Blight or Looten Plunder.
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May 3, 2023 20:40
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My interest in Werewolf was never great. Now that Deviant is out, I feel like it captures the appeal of woof’s gameplay arc but with far better nuance and character variety. I can finally run the “X-Men vs. Capitalism” game I’ve always wanted, instead of just “X-Men vs. Capitalism, but Everyone is Wolverine.” Now I want to run a Deviant game with Pentex as the main Conspiracy and the PCs are fomori who managed to shake off the Always Chaotic Evil thing.
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May 3, 2023 20:52
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Seems legit. The Garou follow an alien syncretic religion partially informed by literal aliens — sentient wolves. They could just be kind of wrong about what “a Bane” is.
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May 3, 2023 22:46
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Gatto Grigio posted:I get the impression when they say “Breed is gone”, they mean specifically the mechanic that imposes traits based on your origin. Correct. They also said all 5 forms are there (there's a picture showing a color-layer version of all 5, as well). It's just that the circumstances of your birth and any birth/breed-based mechanics are gone. A lupus Garou builds just like a homid Garou.
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May 3, 2023 23:13
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So I pulled the trigger on the V5 Player's Guide and glancing through the loresheets I see they've condensed or changed a lot of the Hecata ones and have a question. Did they totally do away with the classic Samedi or are they in another book? I'm just curious because I remember them being in the Cult of the Blood Gods early stuff. If they've been replaced completely with the Nasyon San An I'll miss the old stuff but really really love the change up. Super fashionable and modern Haitian voodoo lords sounds cool as hell to me.
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May 3, 2023 23:28
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TheKingslayer posted:So I pulled the trigger on the V5 Player's Guide and glancing through the loresheets I see they've condensed or changed a lot of the Hecata ones and have a question. If they were in "Cult of the Blood Gods" I don't think they've been removed, but I haven't had a chance to glance at the PDF or book of that in a while to know if they were just in the preview stuff or if they made it to print. The PG was, to my understanding, condensing and collecting the various important bits from other books to have it all in one place, not as a replacement to those other books. Especially since I seem to remember someone saying that not all the Oblivion powers from CBN are in the PG because of space reasons (Pretty sure it was in one of the WoD news videos about the PG prior to its release) So I'd say if the Samedi were in the released version of Blood Gods, then they're still around, you just have to go to that book for that info.
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May 3, 2023 23:57
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Gotcha I only had an early preview copy on hand of Cults instead of the official run that's why I'm not sure. I'm glad you mentioned the Oblivion powers because I thought those looked a little sparse.
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May 4, 2023 01:01
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