(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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mycomancy posted:Good thing we have all this subsistence land in North America! too bad you dont have a fish camp!
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May 2, 2023 22:04
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all land is common if the cops are unwilling or unable to enforce property rights
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May 2, 2023 22:14
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its the only thing they enforce (top down)
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May 2, 2023 22:26
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everyone in suburbia has these yards that are honestly larger than what vietnam allots but its completely loving unarable.
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May 2, 2023 22:35
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croup coughfield posted:all land is common if the cops are unwilling or unable to enforce property rights This is like the number one priority for the cops today
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May 2, 2023 23:55
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:everyone in suburbia has these yards that are honestly larger than what vietnam allots but its completely loving unarable. i dunno man my grandma ended up moving to the suburbs and i helped her grow some banger tomatoes back int he day. i could feed a village on that i think
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May 2, 2023 23:55
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croup coughfield posted:i dunno man my grandma ended up moving to the suburbs and i helped her grow some banger tomatoes back int he day. i could feed a village on that i think cops love busting up feeding people for free food not bombs get their poo poo seized and folk arrested all the time
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May 3, 2023 00:16
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atelier morgan posted:cops love busting up feeding people for free yeah and it's gonna get worse somehow https://www.heraldnet.com/news/everett-weighs-expanding-no-sit-ban-giving-mayor-more-discretion/ quote:Under the proposed ordinance, the mayor would have broad discretion to designate “service facility buffer zones” around social service providers and areas “highly impacted by street-level issues.” The zones also would ban people from giving out food, supplies and water to someone laying down or sitting on city property, unless they have a permit.
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May 3, 2023 00:19
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mawarannahr posted:yeah and it's gonna get worse somehow https://www.heraldnet.com/news/everett-weighs-expanding-no-sit-ban-giving-mayor-more-discretion/ it would be nice if we could try these people for crimes against humanity
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May 3, 2023 00:20
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Sunny Side Up posted:Speaking of class analysis, does anyone have strong opinions on Divided World, Divided Class by Zak Cope? i do, i'd put it in my top 10 for the 2010s, easily. it was the first time I saw someone actually crunch the numbers to come up with some plausible figures for the magnitude of unequal exchange between the core and periphery, which was huge for me. i was reading it around the same time as andrew kliman's two TSSI books, so value theory really felt like it was coming together in a comprehensive way if you're getting into labor aristocracy readings, i also enjoyed, and would recommend a look at, h.w. edwards's "labor aristocracy, mass base of social democracy" Cuttlefush posted:i swear this came up in the thread before but i can't find anything now. i haven't read zak cope but settler-colonial/labor aristocracy stuff should be read and then mostly not acted on, i think. that's kind of bad phrasing but there's a tendency for some people to get stuck on "organizing is useless because labor aristocracy/us too strong" and mayoist third condimentism. i'm not going to do a good job explaining my thoughts here. i thought croup wrote a bunch on this before but i can't find it. i can see this perspective; a lot of people come away from cope with the idea that first-world socialists are all just ineffectual LARPers (hell,) but to write off the core completely is frankly a lethal line, discounting enormous revolutionary potential in prisons, in those struggling for emancipation along racial and gender lines, in internally colonized peoples, etc.; if we just leave it at "uncompensated value transfers from the periphery are equal to the total profit of the core, therefore the core is not net exploited," we're very undialectically abstracting away from real struggles within that tableau, flattening everything to some static, idealized average state that represents almost no one in reality. (also anything first-worlders can do to render their governments even slightly less prone to imperial adventure is good) that's not to say western marxists don't have a habit of getting sucked into their own navels. incidentally, i've become very enamored with ali kadri's writing on this topic, but i don't have any samples to toss around at this moment.
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May 3, 2023 05:41
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Aeolius posted:i do, i'd put it in my top 10 for the 2010s, easily. it was the first time I saw someone actually crunch the numbers to come up with some plausible figures for the magnitude of unequal exchange between the core and periphery, which was huge for me. i was reading it around the same time as andrew kliman's two TSSI books, so value theory really felt like it was coming together in a comprehensive way Thank you!!! Aeolius posted:i can see this perspective; a lot of people come away from cope with the idea that first-world socialists are all just ineffectual LARPers (hell,) but to write off the core completely is frankly a lethal line, discounting enormous revolutionary potential in prisons, in those struggling for emancipation along racial and gender lines, in internally colonized peoples, etc.; if we just leave it at "uncompensated value transfers from the periphery are equal to the total profit of the core, therefore the core is not net exploited," we're very undialectically abstracting away from real struggles within that tableau, flattening everything to some static, idealized average state that represents almost no one in reality. (also anything first-worlders can do to render their governments even slightly less prone to imperial adventure is good) Like I had said before, I think JMP makes a solid argument against this. I'd even go so far to say as it was worthwhile for anticommunists to promote this MTW perspective in the 2010s in order to defang potential radicals. Then you got (vulgar materialist, anti-Leninist) guys like Cockshott who twist the math to show "well, actually, a first worlder is MORE exploited because they're more productive!"
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May 3, 2023 13:55
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Sunny Side Up posted:Like I had said before, I think JMP makes a solid argument against this. I'd even go so far to say as it was worthwhile for anticommunists to promote this MTW perspective in the 2010s in order to defang potential radicals. It seems unlikely to me that MTW was ever the spooky false flag ideology, mainly because even if it leaves some people demoralized about organizing in the first world, there's no question that it still leaves those people with more sophisticated tools for noticing, talking about, and agitating against the many circuits of imperial plunder. That's a useful prong of the antithesis you could just as easily fold back into a more optimistic movement, because aufheben happens! And I think that part is inevitable when you can just look around the US and notice things like
If you work full time, struggle to keep a roof and groceries, and might die to a US governmental bullet tomorrow, i think you probably have more in common with workers in the periphery than the ruling class at home. Anyway, yeah, boo Cockshott. Aeolius has issued a correction as of 20:43 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 20:39
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Aeolius posted:It seems unlikely to me that MTW was ever the spooky false flag ideology, mainly because even if it leaves some people demoralized about organizing in the first world, there's no question that it still leaves those people with more sophisticated tools for noticing, talking about, and agitating against the many circuits of imperial plunder. That's a useful prong of the antithesis you could just as easily fold back into a more optimistic movement, because aufheben happens! at least here in N. America, its not like the brutality of imperialism is something abstract that happens far off on the other side of the planet. we have reservations, an underclass of migrant workers, a blatantly racist prison system backed by effectively a colonial police force. maybe it would be demoralizing for a brit or a german but thankfully i am not
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May 3, 2023 22:33
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:at least here in N. America, its not like the brutality of imperialism is something abstract that happens far off on the other side of the planet. we have reservations, an underclass of migrant workers, a blatantly racist prison system backed by effectively a colonial police force. maybe it would be demoralizing for a brit or a german but thankfully i am not accounting for this by developing a theory of prison aristocracy
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May 3, 2023 22:39
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Mechafunkzilla posted:accounting for this by developing a theory of prison aristocracy turning this into a praxis of abolishing class distinctions within the prison system
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May 3, 2023 23:15
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I think the MTW false flag stuff was more about how groups claiming those ideologies ended up aligning against AES/ML groups. I was looking for an example but ran into this https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.secondwave/index.htm which was just kind of insane to read through (and then see the loving reems of links of back and forth. multiple groups just loving killed each other over a decade. 'The Canadian Marxist-Leninist Group IN STRUGGLE! ' https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.secondwave/ishistory.htm vs 'Down with the non-aligned “Marxist-Leninist” movement from the Communist Party of Canada https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.firstwave/cpc-non-aligned.htm for an example of the aguments. these arguments are still around and they're still about china and other AES and I think that's the actual substantial false flag argument at play. it's not that MTW's ideology is hosed up necessarily, it's that historically groups claiming that ideology aligned against socialists and worked harder against them than anything else. from that first link: quote:By the 1980s, both In Struggle! and the League began to enter a period of crisis. Documents relating to that crisis and the collapse of these two organizations can be found here. The crisis in the worldwide Marxist-Leninist movement also claimed the life of smaller groups. By the mid-1980s, these groups, such as the Red Star Collective and Bolshevik Union had also disappeared. In this way, the anti-revisionist trend in Canadian communism came to an end. i think if there ever were a situation in the US or Canada where ML groups weren't quite as, uh, dormant, this would start right back up. it's not quite about a given ideology right now and what it may be doing to the young impressionable minds, just that a revisionist flavor of ideology makes it easy to co-opt or just start doing anti-communist things on its own. Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 00:02 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 23:59
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Beautiful points all around and thank you. Speaking of that era of the 70s/80s, the Work Stoppage people just introduced me to this which seems so well grounded, could have been written yesterday: https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-7/basoc/index.htm
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May 4, 2023 00:16
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Sunny Side Up posted:Beautiful points all around and thank you. Speaking of that era of the 70s/80s, the Work Stoppage people just introduced me to this which seems so well grounded, could have been written yesterday: https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-7/basoc/index.htm quote:This plan did not work smoothly. The Coordinating Committee (CC) had difficulty prioritizing its agendas and giving leadership to the small groups. It bogged down in organizational details, and failed to give adequate support to important political activities, such as the national conference of national minority Marxist-Leninists, which two of our members attended. Problems with study in part resulted from BASOC’s tendency to ultra-democracy, insecurity in taking decisive steps, and idealism in our work. The study program began with an overly ambitious survey of ̶objective conditions” that the groups were at a loss to evaluate. Most groups had difficulty structuring discussions of mass practice and in defining a role for the group in helping to improve the members’ mass work. yeah that sounds familiar lol
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May 4, 2023 00:20
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one thing to remember is that a lot of those anti-revisionist ML groups in the 70s were small groups of a handful of people with a typewriter and a P.O. box, but there were ~so many~ of these groups which made it seem like a bigger movement.
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May 4, 2023 00:43
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it mentions numbers for the ones I linked - e.g. "meetings organized by In Struggle! usually had an attendance of 1,500 or more, while the League/WCP could top 2,000 and at one point even reached 3,000 people". it's more to the point if a handful of people with a typewriter can get at it as well. i don't really even know what the aftermath of that was or if id was damaging at all to other groups in the long run (though I assume so, maybe baselessly?). At the very least, a lot of time was wasted on unproductive but furious typing. But yeah it sounded like theere were just a few organized groups with members
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May 4, 2023 01:03
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Mechafunkzilla posted:yeah that sounds familiar lol There’s a couple particularly good bits like in the Party Building section it lays out in detail how to develop a political program/line. But yeah even just documenting all the problems they experienced it sounds so drat familiar.
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May 4, 2023 11:58
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:at least here in N. America, its not like the brutality of imperialism is something abstract that happens far off on the other side of the planet. we have reservations, an underclass of migrant workers, a blatantly racist prison system backed by effectively a colonial police force. maybe it would be demoralizing for a brit or a german but thankfully i am not Understatement of the century. If I've said it once, I'll say it again: Understand this country's Law Enforcement system is, for lack of a better term, a literal Death Squadron accountable to NO ONE (not even those considered their ilk). the fact that SWATing is even a thing should be a dead loving giveaway BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 02:01 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 20:17
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read through drat near half of blackshirts & reds today, it's a great piece. Parenti's writing is very precise & revelatory. Broad rhetoric coupled with historical examples and clear-eyed theory (with footnotes for any interested reader to focus on a specific element) makes this a really great introduction for lots of ideas, Im going to use this as a recommendation for future reading groups. Especially helpful is the left anticommunism chapter, in the context of ramping western sinophobia and ever more violent western anti-communism as multipolarity accelerates. I like this passage quote:The pure socialists regularly blame the Left itself for every defeat it suffers. Their second-guessing is endless. So we hear that revolutionary struggles fail because their leaders wait too long or act too soon, are too timid or too impulsive, too stubborn or too easily swayed. We hear that revolutionary leaders are compromising or adventuristic, bureaucratic or opportunistic, rigidly organized or insufficiently organized, undemocratic or failing to provide strong leadership. But always the leaders fail because they do not put their trust in the "direct actions" of the workers, who apparently would withstand and overcome every adversity if only given the kind of leadership available from the left critic's own groupuscle. Unfortunately, the critics seem unable to apply their own leadership genius to producing a successful revolutionary movement in their own country. also an earlier section about US democratic socialists who refuse to condemn liberal bourgeois parties while always going out of their way to publish anti-communism and insist on the failures of all currently existing socialist states. quote:Yet all these crimes, bringing ruination and death to many, have not moved the liberals, the social democrats, and the "democratic socialist" anticommunists to insist repeatedly that we issue blanket condemnations of either the Democratic party or the political system that produced it, certainly not with the intolerant fervor that has been directed against existing communism.
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May 7, 2023 22:56
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fart simpson posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Wjc2XJ2FM lol
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May 7, 2023 23:10
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Reason In Revolt poisoned me lol, extending my materialism more deeply into the physical sciences. I watch science influencers trying to explain away like the JWST contradictions or whatever.
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May 9, 2023 02:21
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what JWST contradictions
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May 9, 2023 02:47
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indigi posted:what JWST contradictions
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May 9, 2023 02:49
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what are they not telling us
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May 9, 2023 02:50
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im guessing something like https://www.marxist.com/the-big-bang-shoehorning-the-facts-to-fit-the-theory.htm? it's uh... bullshit. i don't think it started from this article but there was noise about some james webb observations contradicting the big bang theory which was based on either a journalist try to rephrase an article in nature they did not understand or from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Lerner?useskin=vector this crank guy who is/was a scientist but tends to get crankish about the big bang theory vs another theory. he'd be classified as a science influence now since he mostly does pop science stuff and not peer reviewed research. trying to extend materialism into very technical subjects without doing the work to learn the technical stuff will gently caress you up good. that's similar to what old rear end physicists do when they start investigating poo poo outside their expertise and start finding that it's all wrong. also there's no urgent need to immediately displace the big bang theory with something else. any time something like that seems extremely urgent you should get suspicious. (fun crossover: eric lerner had some kind of run in with the larouchites)
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May 9, 2023 03:00
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https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-02056-5/d41586-022-02056-5.pdf that's the original thing that was publish and then turned into something about james webb data contradicting the big bang theory. also rip sci-hub i guess they stopped updating their database in 2022 or something due to legal poo poo. gently caress. this is paywalled on nature but somehow this link works there's no real controversy or contradiction. the actual data is very much "this might be this number but it's pretty iffy. but if it is all good, it might make this part of our understanding of cosmological formation tricky." that doesn't mean it's all thrown out or that the big bang theory is bullshit. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-023-01937-7 that's one of the actual papers going "hey this data doesn't quite match this part of the theory". read it and you will pretty quickly see that it's a small portion of the theory and that it's not a clear contradiction. what the gently caress even is a ΛCDM? Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 03:14 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 03:07
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In Training posted:read through drat near half of blackshirts & reds today, it's a great piece. Parenti's writing is very precise & revelatory. Broad rhetoric coupled with historical examples and clear-eyed theory (with footnotes for any interested reader to focus on a specific element) makes this a really great introduction for lots of ideas, Im going to use this as a recommendation for future reading groups. hey i've been reading blackshirts & reds too! also i meant to post this in this thread but i forgot crepeface posted:ben norton did a interview with an australian (!!!) who wrote "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics: A Guide for Foreigners". a bunch of interesting stuff in there about deng and whole process people's democracy in a fairly academic marxist context
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May 9, 2023 04:00
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parenti ftw
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May 9, 2023 04:04
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Haven't read parenti but his videos are fuckin fire when he gets worked up
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May 9, 2023 04:17
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In Training posted:read through drat near half of blackshirts & reds today, it's a great piece. Parenti's writing is very precise & revelatory. Broad rhetoric coupled with historical examples and clear-eyed theory (with footnotes for any interested reader to focus on a specific element) makes this a really great introduction for lots of ideas, Im going to use this as a recommendation for future reading groups. parenti writes that way because he wants you to actually understand what he’s saying. i like him
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May 9, 2023 04:22
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Cuttlefush posted:https://media.nature.com/original/magazine-assets/d41586-022-02056-5/d41586-022-02056-5.pdf It’s not whether or not the current “controversy” generating headlines is BS, it’s the handwaving away, the thought process of pop sci influencers, etc. The reason in revolt materialist perspective is almost semantic. Like the difference between math and reality—-there’s no such thing as actual singularity, it’s just a point at which the math fails to describe what’s going on. Like the weird idealist thought that consciousness shapes reality. I followed reason in revolt up with “dialectics in modern physics” (Omelyanovsky) and was still thirsty for more but hadn’t found much out there. It’s just a thought process and grounding.
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May 9, 2023 05:34
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Sunny Side Up posted:It’s not whether or not the current “controversy” generating headlines is BS, it’s the handwaving away, the thought process of pop sci influencers, etc. no
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May 9, 2023 05:44
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man I was all excited that there were cool new JWST developments
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May 9, 2023 05:49
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Sunny Side Up posted:It’s not whether or not the current “controversy” generating headlines is BS, it’s the handwaving away, the thought process of pop sci influencers, etc. yeah science journalism is garbage with a few exceptions. that's not science though. the article i linked is not headline chasing. it's not really parseable unless you know the field/topic. journalists can't really report on that in a meaningful way. that's the bullshit part there. there are a few layers of pop sci hucksters over any paper that gets some mainstream press. it's awful. but then marxist poo poo has breadtube and other interpretation/bullshit layers that people end up getting stuck in too. hate that poo poo
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May 9, 2023 06:01
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Cuttlefush posted:what the gently caress even is a ΛCDM? the acronym for the currently accepted big bang model: Lambda Cold Dark Matter - https://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
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May 9, 2023 10:49
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i know i was just bringing it up to point out that the part of theory in question was it's own specific thing which people outside of that field don't ever hear about vs. the sensationalization of "big bang theory disproven"
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May 9, 2023 10:53
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