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I'm putting together resumes for two different fields, how much can I bullshit in a more overseeing/managerial position? I work remotely and I handle 4-6 contracted workers on Upwork and make sure they get their poo poo done and turned in on time and I've had to fire a few of them. Can I get away with not having references for that? I have worked at the same job for a long time and I'm trying to grab something that I can do simultaneously (managing the contractors takes like 20 minutes and I've automated the rest of my job but I don't want my current boss to know that, and so I obviously can't use him as a reference. Wondering if I can try and find something else that's remote work and mostly just overseeing projects to make sure they don't get all hosed up. If I can't, or if that's super unreasonable, I'll just look for something remote that I can automate and then enjoy living an unemployed lifestyle but with two active income sources.
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May 2, 2023 04:39
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Red posted:Ghosting is becoming pretty common. If you've developed a rapport with a recruiter or something, you may get the gentle letdown call, but you'll probably get an automatically-generated email in most cases. This. I've been called with a "no" once and exactly once.
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May 2, 2023 07:18
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Thumbtacks posted:I'm putting together resumes for two different fields, how much can I bullshit in a more overseeing/managerial position? I work remotely and I handle 4-6 contracted workers on Upwork and make sure they get their poo poo done and turned in on time and I've had to fire a few of them. Can I get away with not having references for that? I have worked at the same job for a long time and I'm trying to grab something that I can do simultaneously (managing the contractors takes like 20 minutes and I've automated the rest of my job but I don't want my current boss to know that, and so I obviously can't use him as a reference. lmao did you contract your job to 4-6 upworkers? EDIT: "it depends." I'm unwilling to comment in detail because you're proposing a situation fraught with serious legal and ethical issues depending on the facts of your situation. If it was me, the legal/ethics were good, and I'd automated my current job that much, I'd hold out for a goldilocks identical job. Don't try to do a new thing. Work 1 hour per day for 2x salary. EDIT2: I only hire ICs but I frequently look for my senior ICs to have some manager experience. Personally, I sus out and discount any gig work experience. I've also managed upworkers and it is nothing like managing a team of employees. Saying you managed gig workers when I ask about management experience means you know nothing about management of a real team in my book. EDIT3: You were the guy that did lead gen and mentioned Lexis! Im guessing you outsourced your lead gen to some upworkers. I have used upworkers for lead gen and I personally wrote web scrapers for lead gen that used upworkers as part of an enrichment flow. I still use upworkers for odd job side projects and for hiring attorneys. It is nothing like managing my actual team of SDRs who I happily pay >$50k/yr instead of $6/hr. Nothing. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 03:37 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 03:21
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I think I need someone with actual experience to look at my CV and gut it to shreds to put back together. How, and where, would I go about doing that? I think someone does that but it’s for resumes…?
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May 3, 2023 11:30
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teen witch posted:I think I need someone with actual experience to look at my CV and gut it to shreds to put back together. You can post it ITT, there are several hiring managers.
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May 3, 2023 16:07
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Awesome, ok. Let me figure out a way to fully anonymize this, as the issue with my position is that it’s kind of a mix of two, and is pretty distinctive to doxx. Mainly, I’m looking how to loving reduce block of text into like, three salient statements. Thanks!
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May 3, 2023 16:12
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teen witch posted:Awesome, ok. Let me figure out a way to fully anonymize this, as the issue with my position is that it’s kind of a mix of two, and is pretty distinctive to doxx. Mainly, I’m looking how to loving reduce block of text into like, three salient statements. General advice: Focus on accomplishments, responsibilities comes second. That will better define your role and its what hiring managers want to see anyway. No one's job fits neatly into 1 role. Don't be afraid to have multiple resumes targeting different roles and sectors. Emphasize one part of your job for one, another for another. There's no law that says you can only have 1 immutable resume. Lots of people have a resume for IC type jobs and another for Project Management type jobs. You don't need everything in your resume. Tell a story. You can explain the details in person.
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May 3, 2023 18:09
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CarForumPoster posted:lmao did you contract your job to 4-6 upworkers? I didn’t even outsource it, honestly, my boss just decided to start using contracted workers because it’s cheaper and easier, I’m basically the wrangler. We’ve had the same team of 3 for like a year now. I’m “officially” the manager/coordinator. They send stuff daily, log 6-7 hours I think. It’s not exactly like being an in office manager or probably like being a manager at all, but still. And yeah that’s me, still doing it although we stopped using lexis, I wrote a thing that pulled stuff from lexis too fast and in two months we used the site so much they wanted an insanely high monthly fee to use it based on our use data, whoops. Probably shouldn’t have ran it overnight. I use a free site now, works well enough and the upwork guys can also use it. I’m not opposed to finding an “identical Goldilocks job” but it’s difficult to find remote work that isn’t sales and calling people, apparently.
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May 3, 2023 19:15
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hey quick question. I had a recruiter from a well-known, older company reach out and say he had a position he wanted to run past me, and I said hey ok let's chat, what ya got. After ignoring (or not getting due to their recruiting system) my responses and not providing much in the way of useful details, he waits several weeks and then sends me a zoom invite for a pre-screen out of the blue. He then was a no-show on that meeting and when I (politely) said hey wtf, he said without apology that the invite was wrong and it's actually for the next day, then sent another. Meanwhile, although the zoom link for the company is legit, the specific title he referenced doesn't appear to be on its careers site. I'm not actively looking, but I do generally chat with recruiters when they come along. This one has been uniquely difficult however. I am available for the next one he's scheduled but at this point I'm not sure I want to bother. How much time is worth spending on this trying not to needlessly burn bridges, and either way, what's the best way to turn a recruiter down not so much because the position/company/whatever isn't right but because he doesn't seem to have his act together?
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May 3, 2023 19:25
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Iridium posted:hey quick question. You know, I might suggest looking at that company on LinkedIn and reaching out to a different recruiter, noting you had some difficulty connecting, but are really interested in their opportunities.
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May 3, 2023 19:37
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Him not having his act together should tell you an awful lot about what he's peddling. You can just send an email saying "Thank you for the time but I am no longer interested" and be done with it.
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May 3, 2023 19:38
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Lockback posted:Him not having his act together should tell you an awful lot about what he's peddling. You can just send an email saying "Thank you for the time but I am no longer interested" and be done with it. This is good if you dont want the job. If you dont mind the time of the zoom interview, then it prob couldn't hurt, but the probability of it actually being worth going to seems low...but thats job hunting. Thumbtacks posted:I didn’t even outsource it, honestly, my boss just decided to start using contracted workers because it’s cheaper and easier, I’m basically the wrangler. We’ve had the same team of 3 for like a year now. I’m “officially” the manager/coordinator. They send stuff daily, log 6-7 hours I think. It’s not exactly like being an in office manager or probably like being a manager at all, but still. Ahh thats the good facts. Think on what other businesses have a very similar problem. e.g. if you're doing lead gen for lawyers, what other service based businesses need leads that way and are big enough to staff a team of lead gen thats different than SDRs? Its probably a small niche but thats the goldilocks part. For example: - Bigger regional plumber/electrical contractors (the kind with 100s of employees) - Law firms in other areas of practice (e.g. maybe you currently do debt collection firms, but maybe class action firms have a related need) - Process servers that want to land new law firms. Obvs service based is just an example...and is the tough example. This works way better with SaaS with a >$20K LTV. It can prob still work down to businesses with a >$5K avg LTV though. EDIT: Anyway the point is don't talk up being a manager too much. Mention it and be honest about the nature of it. Talk up your ability to manage teams like that to achieve sales and business goals. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 19:51 on May 3, 2023 |
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May 3, 2023 19:47
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Excellent advice, thank you. I still am not particularly confident in my resume, I definitely need to work on it, but I’ll get there. Need to figure out the best way to post jobs and what I did at those jobs in a way that people will actually care about
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May 3, 2023 19:58
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CarForumPoster posted:This is good if you dont want the job. thanks, this is probably what I'll do. If we have another round of it I'll just decline and suggest I'm not looking.
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May 3, 2023 20:23
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teen witch posted:I think I need someone with actual experience to look at my CV and gut it to shreds to put back together. CarForumPoster posted:You can post it ITT, there are several hiring managers. it should not need to be said, but naturally, nobody should post any PII or anything that could dox you. sanitize the poo poo out of anything posted in this thread please and thanks. edit: also read the guidelines in OP for things to do before posting a CV or resume
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May 3, 2023 22:52
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pmchem posted:it should not need to be said, but naturally, nobody should post any PII or anything that could dox you. sanitize the poo poo out of anything posted in this thread please and thanks. post your ssn for max resume help
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May 3, 2023 23:12
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I've always felt a stool sample is what makes a resume pop.
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May 4, 2023 03:13
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CarForumPoster posted:post your ssn for max resume help hunter2
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May 4, 2023 03:48
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Quackles posted:*******
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May 4, 2023 05:47
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brief update, recruiter no-call no-showed to his second invite too. gently caress you, Kevin.
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May 4, 2023 18:10
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Hey I got laid off for the first time ever today  Haven't written a resume since 2015 (and I can't find that one for some reason anyway) so I'm starting over. The resume advice in the OP is real good (thanks!) so I'm starting with that of course. The thing I'm worried about though is that I know resumes nowadays get shredded through automated systems that rip out bits of information to filter by, and your actual resume won't even get seen by a person until it's through a few layers of that process. I'd think as a result you'd want to format it in as simple and standardized a way as you possibly can so the automated tools have the best chance of properly extracting the information. Thing is, I have no idea what a ISO Standard Computer-Readable Resume should look like. Do I just like, google "resume template" and pick the first one?
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May 5, 2023 16:09
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Shame Boy posted:Hey I got laid off for the first time ever today Use the first one in Microsoft word and upload it to some job application that tries to extract your resume into independent sections. If it did it properly, great. If not, play with it and try again I haven’t applied for a job in a long while but it used to be indeed did this and Taleo the HR/ATS software would too.
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May 5, 2023 16:16
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CarForumPoster posted:Use the first one in Microsoft word and upload it to some job application that tries to extract your resume into independent sections. If it did it properly, great. If not, play with it and try again Oh I didn't realize there were publicly available sites that you can test this with, that's perfect thanks.
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May 5, 2023 16:18
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Iridium posted:brief update, recruiter no-call no-showed to his second invite too. Shout out to Lockback for calling it
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May 5, 2023 16:18
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Shame Boy posted:Oh I didn't realize there were publicly available sites that you can test this with, that's perfect thanks. You prob can’t test the keyword extraction per se, but if your resume imports beautifully then you’re prob golden. If stuff is missing or not where it should then you can suspect it’s gonna gently caress up on the ones you cant test
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May 5, 2023 16:20
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CarForumPoster posted:You prob can’t test the keyword extraction per se, but if your resume imports beautifully then you’re prob golden. If stuff is missing or not where it should then you can suspect it’s gonna gently caress up on the ones you cant test Yeah I figured the particular algorithms would be ~secret sauce~ that they don't want people to see but you're right there's no reason something that parses out in a more basic system shouldn't have a decent chance of working with the actual one. Mostly just worried because the job I had before this last one was writing software that more or less specifically did that for marketing documents and slideshows rather than resumes, and holy gently caress are there a lot of ways to generate documents that Office itself can open just fine but things like the Microsoft-written and supplied libraries for parsing office documents (which the resume-parsing software is most definitely using) would poo poo the bed with. Like it was so bad that we actually ran instances of Office on servers to process certain tasks rather than use the official libraries.
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May 5, 2023 16:32
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Also here's a fun thing people don't generally realize while I'm on the topic: Office is (or at least was as of 2014 when I last had to care about this) specifically designed to be "what you see is what you get" with regards to printing. What that means in practice is opening a document on a different computer with different printer settings will re-format the document to how it would look when printed on that computer's printer. Most people never notice this (because how often are you going to change the default printer settings to a completely different shape of paper) but oh man did it ever cause some fun weird bullshit. PDF is specifically a format for exact page layouts, where the page size is explicitly part of the document, so it doesn't have this problem. It's got lots of other fun problems, but not this one.
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May 5, 2023 16:44
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It'll also look different when editing in the browser vs editing in the application for bonus fun. Took me a full year to convince a former boss to stop loving with people's work on her Surface and then complaining that other people had messed it up when she looked at it on her home PC later.
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May 5, 2023 20:56
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It's worth noting that there is a big difference between a resume that is crappy because someone clearly didn't spend more than 2 minutes on it and a resume that had the formatting go wonky. When hiring managers complain about bad resumes, we're talking about the former. Not to say you shouldn't try to make them appear good in whatever format, but good content will shine through, spend your time there.
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May 5, 2023 21:04
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Lockback posted:It's worth noting that there is a big difference between a resume that is crappy because someone clearly didn't spend more than 2 minutes on it and a resume that had the formatting go wonky. When hiring managers complain about bad resumes, we're talking about the former. Not to say you shouldn't try to make them appear good in whatever format, but good content will shine through, spend your time there. Id say an exception to this is Indeed or other major job sites that let employers do cold outreach. Often they only show a partial, semi redacted version of your resume. Your content can't shine through because we dont see it, but we do see your ALL CAPS JOB TITLES because indeed sucked them in wrong. Also I have seen it say like "Bachelors degree" when they actually have a masters. Indeeds not great, but if your job is no longer your job, it becomes job hunting in which case optimize optimize optimize. Put that resume on indeed, LinkedIn, etc. Make them beautiful. Make sure they work with the ATSes. etc. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 00:45
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I think I've got a good resume going. I noticed in the OP that you should never put "references available upon request," does that mean I should just... not put references, and let them ask me for them? Or put them and warn said references that they could get a call at any moment for the next like, month or longer?
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May 8, 2023 15:38
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Shame Boy posted:I think I've got a good resume going. I noticed in the OP that you should never put "references available upon request," does that mean I should just... not put references, and let them ask me for them? Or put them and warn said references that they could get a call at any moment for the next like, month or longer? Wait for an employer to ask you for a reference.
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May 8, 2023 16:38
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Lockback posted:Wait for an employer to ask you for a reference. Got it, thanks.
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May 8, 2023 16:41
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My experience is references are kind of pointless. Most previous employers will say "yes they person worked there". The people who will say something that you offer up just say "the person rocks". Cool and all I suppose but I put almost zero weight on them outside of confirming you did work on the projects you said you did.
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May 8, 2023 16:54
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spwrozek posted:My experience is references are kind of pointless. Most previous employers will say "yes they person worked there". The people who will say something that you offer up just say "the person rocks". Cool and all I suppose but I put almost zero weight on them outside of confirming you did work on the projects you said you did. That's still pretty useful. Basically another data point that you're who you say you are and not someone who memorized the answers to the top 100 most asked whiteboard coding problems or whatever. But that's more of a problem with how a lot of places interview in my field. It feels like every company is run by the Riddler trying to recruit riddle solving cronies, and not actually asking questions related to the work you do.
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May 8, 2023 17:00
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I don't know anything about coding interviews. I guess different for my engineering field. The software is so expensive that if you don't know how to use it/work a project it becomes very apparent.
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May 8, 2023 17:33
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spwrozek posted:My experience is references are kind of pointless. Most previous employers will say "yes they person worked there". The people who will say something that you offer up just say "the person rocks". Cool and all I suppose but I put almost zero weight on them outside of confirming you did work on the projects you said you did. I can think of two times I've checked references and glad I was. One time was to essentially confirm a prospects story that seemed fishy (it wasn't fishy, it was just a weird situation), and another time I was on the fence on a candidate and the reference basically said "I can't say anything bad so I won't say anything at all". That said, I've interviewed hundreds of people in my career so it's literally 99% of the time I haven't bothered with references and don't feel like I missed anything. Chainclaw posted:But that's more of a problem with how a lot of places interview in my field. It feels like every company is run by the Riddler trying to recruit riddle solving cronies, and not actually asking questions related to the work you do. Yeah, that is a real problem. The people who do that don't care much about references though, and the people who are trying to dig deeper have better ways of doing that.
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May 8, 2023 17:41
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spwrozek posted:My experience is references are kind of pointless. Most previous employers will say "yes they person worked there". The people who will say something that you offer up just say "the person rocks". Cool and all I suppose but I put almost zero weight on them outside of confirming you did work on the projects you said you did. Yeah, big grain of salt required. Years ago I got asked to be a referee for a former direct report after I'd left our lovely workplace. You bet I gave him the most glowing reference ever even though he was an average to meh employee, because he was getting bullied badly after I left and needed an escape route. Also I was/am a petty jerk who was happy to see that toxic shithole lose yet another person.
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May 9, 2023 00:36
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Another question: I went to college for 2 years but never graduated. In that time, I did quite a lot of coursework that was very relevant to my field. Do I include it at all on my resume? I was thinking just something like: [school] [years] Coursework in computer touching and computer rubbing e: To be clear I have 12+ years of actual professional experience in front of this so it's not like it matters that much
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May 10, 2023 16:12
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tbh if you didn't actually get a degree no one is going to count it for anything.
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May 10, 2023 16:17
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