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Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

The actual solution is to make him a dps, like he always should have been.

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Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly
Rework Sombra, Roadhog, Wrecking Ball, and Widowmaker pls

harrygomm
Oct 19, 2004

can u run n jump?

Jack Trades posted:

They said that in one of the OW2 blog posts talking about matchmaking.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/

they also say immediately before that the only way to rank up is a positive w/l record which is verifiably false w/ clips showing repeated rank ups on negative records. maybe they’re splitting hairs on visible rank vs. hidden mmr, but then i’d expect them to be splitting hairs w/r/t ranking up not taking into account -scoreboard- stats in particular.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

harrygomm posted:

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23910161/

they also say immediately before that the only way to rank up is a positive w/l record which is verifiably false w/ clips showing repeated rank ups on negative records. maybe they’re splitting hairs on visible rank vs. hidden mmr, but then i’d expect them to be splitting hairs w/r/t ranking up not taking into account -scoreboard- stats in particular.

Well, I never said that they were honest. Only that they have said it.

We know almost for sure that there's an anti-smurf system that absolutely looks at your performance.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

headcase posted:

My problem with ball is his insane Burst damage. Yes he is impossible to kill, but if he bounces me on ana, I'm already dead. I don't even know what all goes into the combo, I guess Bump, slam, and some headshots. I swear he kills faster than any other tank. Maybe like 6-8 second cooldown on slam would be nice.

Let's say I nade myself through some of his damage to survive, he will be back with another slam wayyy before my cooldowns are up.

Yeah been running into totally unkillable balls in unranked. Like they just harass the backline while our tank is off screens away crying about where's the dps where heals etc...

I can handle ball well enough on Dva since she can just follow him and kill him but if I'm on support or the rare dps just can't do anything.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

ball might be a little overtuned but keep in mind ow2's design philosophy is that [most] tanks are unkillable. if ball wasn't unkillable he'd be useless.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


appropriatemetaphor posted:

Yeah been running into totally unkillable balls in unranked. Like they just harass the backline while our tank is off screens away crying about where's the dps where heals etc...

On the other hand, what CAN another tank do against Ball? It's not like you can slow him down in any significant way, even with Hungry Vortex or Accretion.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

some tanks can peel dive targets really well

other tanks can actually cause ball to die if ball doesn't have his overshields cooldown and he gets hit with the tank CC + entire team focus fire

the rest of the tanks should just completely ignore him

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

On the other hand, what CAN another tank do against Ball? It's not like you can slow him down in any significant way, even with Hungry Vortex or Accretion.

In my experience a lone Tank can't do much against Ball but any Tank with a Stun ability coupled with an awake DPS player can fairly easily shut the Ball down.
Roadhog + Bastion for example is a way to absolutely demolish the Ball every time without him being able to do anything about it.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

can rammatra mess up a ball's dive consistently with his 'bring them to the ground' cc? it would be really funny if that was a meta thing

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

On the other hand, what CAN another tank do against Ball? It's not like you can slow him down in any significant way, even with Hungry Vortex or Accretion.
also ime accretion can absolutely gently caress a ball if the ball doesn't have the shield cooldown. it's easy to land when he pounds and the accretion cc got buffed. it just requires your team to focus fire and hope he doesn't get invul'ed by kiriko or whatever. do not bother if your team comp is not attuned to focus fire a cc'ed ball though.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


Jack Trades posted:

an awake DPS player

comedyblissoption posted:

requires your team to focus fire

ah

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

the worse the player is the more likely they are to focus fire the unkillable tank right in front of them making tons of noise and impact

the better the player the more likely they are to choose a target intelligently based on context

it generally works out

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
"requires your team to coordinate and the other team to not be helping their tank at all" doesn't seem like it's gonna win evenly-matched games

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

again the tendency in the vast majority of games is for people to shoot at unkillable tanks

this means that the enemy team is generally not following up or paying attention whatsoever to ball's dives until you get to like GM level lol

Hashy
Nov 20, 2005

Neither ML7 nor Eskay are using the new lifeweaver keybindings. who usin that garbage

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Hashy posted:

Neither ML7 nor Eskay are using the new lifeweaver keybindings. who usin that garbage

Non-crazy people.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Fuuuuuuuuck, this is one so good.

I still haven't spent a single dime on OW2 but this skin good enough to tempt me to spend :10bux: on it.
No way in hell am I ever paying 20 bux for a skin ever.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


I found something out today.

To unlock a "new" hero (Kiriko, Rammatra, Sojourn, Lifeweaver), a new player has to complete their challenges. The final one of which is "win 35 games as Any Role or <ROLE>".

Those wins don't carry over to other heroes. A new player has to win 35 games PER HERO. 140 wins to unlock all four.

widespread
Aug 5, 2013

I believe I am now no longer in the presence of nice people.


Gravitas Shortfall posted:

I found something out today.

To unlock a "new" hero (Kiriko, Rammatra, Sojourn, Lifeweaver), a new player has to complete their challenges. The final one of which is "win 35 games as Any Role or <ROLE>".

Those wins don't carry over to other heroes. A new player has to win 35 games PER HERO. 140 wins to unlock all four.

It's 150 games played I think for new non-OW1 players to touch comp. I forget if it's another 50 for that, or 150 games for all heroes on top of another 50 for comp.

The point is: why the gently caress do we not have "do this thing in 20 different games". It'd probably be easier, maybe even fun too.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


just playing 140 games would be enough, but winning? in Overwatch? a game where half the time it doesn't matter how good you play? jesus. why do new players bother?

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly
As a recently new player, this is actually not that bad at all. You have enough on your plate as a new player learning the basics of positioning and what the hell every hero does to be bummed about not having access to a measly couple new heroes. It's actually a bit of relief, a few less characters to need to worry about learning right away.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


Pvt. Parts posted:

As a recently new player, this is actually not that bad at all. You have enough on your plate as a new player learning the basics of positioning and what the hell every hero does to be bummed about not having access to a measly couple new heroes. It's actually a bit of relief, a few less characters to need to worry about learning right away.

Have you unlocked any of those four, and how long did it take?

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

Have you unlocked any of those four, and how long did it take?

I have all of them but Lifeweaver, I have an old account so I think a few got grandfathered in and the rest I just had to do some simple stuff in the Firing Range to unlock them, maybe because I already had the wins required by the time I came around to bother unlocking them?

field balm
Feb 5, 2012

I think i have everyone except sojourn unlocked and I've been playing less than 2 weeks, I did get the battle pass though (I might be wrong I'm not at my pc)

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
I actually really like junker queen against ball because her knife in him lets him think he's going to escape and then he gets pulled back in. We did some queen/mei vs ball and that seemed ok but lost when the other team went "lol pharmercy to support ball".

headcase
Sep 28, 2001

dogstile posted:

I actually really like junker queen against ball because her knife in him lets him think he's going to escape and then he gets pulled back in. We did some queen/mei vs ball and that seemed ok but lost when the other team went "lol pharmercy to support ball".

That is a good idea. I don't think Im confident enough on junker to try it. I usually go for ram so I can always apply some kind of pressure.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
I'm a Junker Stan and legitimately think that if they stop being cowards and give her some form of armour she won't be basically a throw pick against the more traditional tanks. Right now she's kinda good against Winston but so is everyone. Ball she's fine with if she's got some help. Everyone else kinda burns her so you have to be talking and have a team that's willing to work with your 15 second shout cd or whatever it is. Engaging with it is really good.

Also if the other team isn't running kiriko (they should, but still), sombra + queen ult literally kills entire teams.

pointlessone
Aug 6, 2001

The Triad Frog is pleased with this custom title purchase.

dogstile posted:

I'm a Junker Stan and legitimately think that if they stop being cowards and give her some form of armour she won't be basically a throw pick against the more traditional tanks. Right now she's kinda good against Winston but so is everyone. Ball she's fine with if she's got some help. Everyone else kinda burns her so you have to be talking and have a team that's willing to work with your 15 second shout cd or whatever it is. Engaging with it is really good.

Also if the other team isn't running kiriko (they should, but still), sombra + queen ult literally kills entire teams.

A solid 150 armor in place of HP would do wonders.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
give JQ a personal speed boost for each wound she stacks

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly
Can we just get rid of armour? It's an opaque and weird mechanic. Just give heroes more white health and find better ways to do what armour does when it actually matters. Let's see, Torb ult can do % max health damage instead of bonus damage against armour. And supports can be incentivized to keep their tanks topped off... somehow I dunno.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Pvt. Parts posted:

Can we just get rid of armour? It's an opaque and weird mechanic. Just give heroes more white health and find better ways to do what armour does when it actually matters. Let's see, Torb ult can do % max health damage instead of bonus damage against armour. And supports can be incentivized to keep their tanks topped off... somehow I dunno.

Ok. Do you want your favorite rapid-fire DPS character to become completely useless against Tanks or do you want them to instakill everything that isn't a Tank then?

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004

the point of armor is to make healing more effective on the armored target. If you take it away you'd have to rebalance so many other numbers on supports and dps it would be a nightmare

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly

Jack Trades posted:

Ok. Do you want your favorite rapid-fire DPS character to become completely useless against Tanks or do you want them to instakill everything that isn't a Tank then?

Hm? You are probably thinking of the old OW1 style of armour which reduced every instance of damage by a flat amount, like 5 I think. So it would stuff characters who do lots of small instances of damage and be pretty useless against large bursts of damage. The new OW2 armour just reduces all damage by a flat 30%. And I think internally health is tracked with enough precision that roundoff isn't significant.

novaSphere
Jan 25, 2003

Pattonesque posted:

give JQ a personal speed boost for each wound she stacks

Give her the original DPS passive instead of the Tank passive just to drive it home

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

I found something out today.

To unlock a "new" hero (Kiriko, Rammatra, Sojourn, Lifeweaver), a new player has to complete their challenges. The final one of which is "win 35 games as Any Role or <ROLE>".

Those wins don't carry over to other heroes. A new player has to win 35 games PER HERO. 140 wins to unlock all four.

Yeah I had to do that for Rammatra.

Luckily already had Kiriko and Sojourn unlocked somehow and Lifeweaver you can just get from the free battlepass.

novaSphere
Jan 25, 2003

Give JQ 150-175 armor but it's at the end of her health bar instead of the front

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly

novaSphere posted:

Give JQ 150-175 armor but it's at the end of her health bar instead of the front

Mods?

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

I'm so very tired of having to play rock paper scissors with the other tank in the tank role.

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Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


I feel like I'm getting far less value out of Sigma's ult lately. Lifeweaver's tree and his grip really do a number on it.

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