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Game seems fun so far. Only disappointment is that I was really looking forward to the race designer so I could make a race of arctic barbarian types, but if I want the Arctic Empire-type spells I need to wade through a bunch of useless necromancy tomes and it's not really worth it. There's a lot of stuff I'm still getting used to but it seems like it's shaking up the expected gameplay in a good way.
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May 4, 2023 16:41
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 14:33 |
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Jabarto posted:Game seems fun so far. Only disappointment is that I was really looking forward to the race designer so I could make a race of arctic barbarian types, but if I want the Arctic Empire-type spells I need to wade through a bunch of useless necromancy tomes and it's not really worth it. You don't need to stick to one type of tomes. Just take Dark Ice tomes and then like Horde Chaos tomes or whatever else fits your flavor.
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May 4, 2023 16:44
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Jack Trades posted:You don't need to stick to one type of tomes. Just take Dark Ice tomes and then like Horde Chaos tomes or whatever else fits your flavor. It looks like the only frost related tomes are the tome of cryomancy (T1) and tome of the cold dark (T3), both of which they could probably snag in addition to whatever other tomes they want to grab. It does kind of suck that there isn't a T2 and T4 tome that's frost related tho.
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May 4, 2023 16:48
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Jack Trades posted:You don't need to stick to one type of tomes. Just take Dark Ice tomes and then like Horde Chaos tomes or whatever else fits your flavor. Unless I'm misunderstanding the system, you need to unlock 2 lower level tomes in a school to unlock the next level. Dark Ice is tier 3, and aside from Cryomancy none of the other Shadow tomes I'd need to unlock it deal with ice. Jabarto fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 16:48
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Jabarto posted:Unless I'm misunderstanding the system, you need to unlock 2 lower level tomes in a school to unlock the next level. Dark Ice is tier 3, and aside from Cryomancy none of the other tomes I'd need to unlock it deal with ice. You don't need two dark tomes to get to T2 dark tomes, if that's your understanding. You can grab any two tomes of a tier and you'll be presented with T2 tomes of every affinity. The only time your selection of tome matters re: that stuff is when you get to T4, where you need to have (i believe) 5 affinity to be presented T4 selections of that affinity. so for T2 you could grab tome of winds and tome of amplifications and you'll still qualify for cold dark.
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May 4, 2023 16:50
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Jabarto posted:Unless I'm misunderstanding the system, you need to unlock 2 lower level tomes in a school to unlock the next level. Dark Ice is tier 3, and aside from Cryomancy none of the other tomes I'd need to unlock it deal with ice. I believe you need to unlock 2 lower level tomes of any school
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May 4, 2023 16:50
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OHHH, yeah that's way better then. I didn't follow this game closely during development so I'm still figuring a lot of stuff out. Thanks for the tips. 
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May 4, 2023 16:52
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Jabarto posted:OHHH, yeah that's way better then. I didn't follow this game closely during development so I'm still figuring a lot of stuff out. Thanks for the tips. np  enjoy blasting your foes into eternal winter
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May 4, 2023 16:55
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Is there a way I'm not seeing to delete individual save games rather than the whole session?
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May 4, 2023 17:04
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Thyrork posted:Idly amusing myself with thoughts about DLC 2 from what has and has not carried over; Mostly I notice the absence of rogueish and dreadnought vibes. Lets see how wrong I end up being; I feel like adding more cultures and tomes is going to be a really fun chance to revisit the game down the line. I wonder how much modders will be able to do; I imagine the graphics for new cultures would make it a very large modding project at the minimum. That said: I'd like to see a "wild" culture. Barbarian is the closest but it would work for things like wild elves or nomads (well, not actual nomads since I don't think that would work in the game engine, but nomad adjacent cultures). Maybe move Barbarian over to 2 chaos and make Wild 2 life, give them a shaman and ranged unit focus with wilderness concealment as a theme, and maybe an emphasis on an alternate way of gaining knowledge like a reduced city income but a bonus for adding provinces/winning fights. I'm guessing from the DLC descriptions this will be DLC 3. Maybe a lineup like so: Champion (T1): Fighter. Slinger (T1): Ranged. Or maybe another archer if the animations would be a problem. Outrider (T2): Mounted skirmish unit. Bonus damage when not adjacent to any friend unit. Shaman (T2): Support with a single target buffing focus. Gives the stack a small bonus to healing rate in wilderness. Witch (T3): Battle Mage. Attacks do slightly below average damage but debuff targets' resistances. Tomes: I'm curious how they'll add new tomes. You'd probably want to keep the number of tomes per affinity static, but adding 6 tomes per DLC might be optimistic. Or they might aim for just having a balanced number with all four DLC and allow each individual DLC to skew the numbers. Alternately, I think you could do hybrid affinity tomes? At least for tiers 1-2 since above that it would run into troubles with the required tome progression (or maybe not if it's based on affinities? I thought you needed a T3 materium tome to pick a T4 materium tome, but that might have been coincidence). So a tome with 1 Astral and 1 Shadow instead of 2 Astral, or maybe a Materium/Order tome. That way you could add three tomes in a DLC and still keep the "total" affinities the same. Other guesses: Dragon lords will probably be an alternative lord pick like Mortal Champion or Wizard King. But while Mortal Champions specialize in stronger units and Wizard Kings are about spells, Dragon Lords will probably be focuses on having a very powerful hero unit. I think you nailed the DLC 2 culture but I'm curious how they'll handle it. If you made the recruitable units things like robots then it wouldn't make much sense for them to get racial bonuses/transformations. Though maybe you could make it work with things like steampunk heavy plate armor or gunpowder cannons, where it's obvious it's still the base race operating the things. Bremen fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 17:06
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You can do a passable tree elf faction by taking fabled hunters, shadow walkers, keen eyed and sneaky. Shadow walkers in general is quite neat because it makes your scouts invisible most of the time so you can use them to keep tabs on people, combine it with tree books and you get very good archers and also the ability to fill the world with forests which you can move easily through while your enemies can't, and also the nature path upgrades let you have stuff like forests granting you vision and your domain slowing people down further. On your home turf you should be invisible, fast, and know where everyone is.
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May 4, 2023 17:11
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So with high culture, it seems like an archer-focused t1 build can be quite powerful. Make sure to get the tome of enchantment in t1 for the seeker arrows enhcantment so you get +1 range, then when you awaken your archers they'll have 6 range. To make the most of it, make sure to grab twin awakened on your heroes so you can awaken archers as need and use the AOE awakening spell on tight formations, having a wizard king ruler here will help because of the overchannel ability so you can awaken your forces quickly and even strengthen them (as they'll get strengthened if hit by it when already awakened). I think tome of pyromancy is a good 2nd tier 1 tome, or even starting with it, it has a flaming arrow enchantment and you can grab the impressment empire perk early on for cheaper upkeep on t1 units.
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May 4, 2023 17:22
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How does Awakening work? Are there any spells that do it? I couldn't find any.
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May 4, 2023 17:26
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two main questions: 1) do you ONLY heal in your own terrain? not healing in enemy terrain makes sense but in an unclaimed province I was getting 0 regen, or I misunderstood what was going on 2) is there a good video or writeup on tactics when fighting manually? cause holy poo poo my armies suck in my own hands/take a VERY long time to micro to win without taking damage, but roll easily when I do auto combat with larger forces + active buffs my issue is mostly how by default you cannot ever outrange opponents; ranged attacks are 4 distance, units can move 4 distance, and everyone starts out like 10 distance away so I end up being unsure if I should just rush the enemy instantly, wait a turn, etc at least I'm stacking up pantheon but I'd like to start getting into multiplayer, just... after I can literally outperform the autocombat AI this is also unfortunate because it's much faster/less tedious to autocombat all the little chaff on the map for bonus XP, and my wins have been literally just autocombatting the enemy AI in 1v1s (but with 18 unit armies on each side) for faster pantheon xp, but I'm like... this isn't actually helping me learn how to fight
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May 4, 2023 17:32
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Prism posted:How does Awakening work? Are there any spells that do it? I couldn't find any. You should start with a spell that does it when you pick high culture. Their T2 support unit can do it and your leaders can learn how to do it if they're high culture. I think this probably makes high units a bit poo poo if you aren't high culture because you won't have the spell and will be dependent on their support units.
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May 4, 2023 17:32
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Prism posted:How does Awakening work? Are there any spells that do it? I couldn't find any. High culture has access to a spell, Awaken Inner Radiance, which awakens units with dormant traits in a 1-hex radius (or strenghens them if they are already awakened) for 3 turns. Sun Priests also have 2 single target awakening abilities, one that that heals one that does not. In addition heroes have access to a skill called Twin Awakened that awakens one targeted unit and another nearby one. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 17:39 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 17:34
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Tempora Mutantur posted:two main questions: 1. you heal 5 per turn in neutral terrain unless your world has no respite or possibly if there is some other modifier at play. 2. there's a weird cadence you learn where moving uses up your attacks, so generally whoever attacks first is at a disadvantage because their opponent is probably in defensive stance and they only get to make one attack which the enemy can retaliate against, being an unfavourable trade, and then the next round the side that defended get to make three attacks which you can only retaliate to one of. So, you generally want to do things like, walk up to your opponent and go into shield wall in their face, or try to harass their lines and force them to come to you, or try to outmaneuver them and get them encircled so you can flank, or use spells and powerful abilities to disrupt their formation. You basically never want to just rock up and hit people in the face, that is the least efficient way to use your troops and will get them smacked down on the next turn. Formations are super strong and being able to form up and use the terrain to your advantage is basically what the tactical combat amounts to. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 17:40
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Tempora Mutantur posted:two main questions: You should be getting 5 hp/turn regen in unclaimed provinces, and 25 in friendly. If you open up the full screen unit description and mouse over the health bar it should tell you. quote:2) is there a good video or writeup on tactics when fighting manually? cause holy poo poo my armies suck in my own hands/take a VERY long time to micro to win without taking damage, but roll easily when I do auto combat with larger forces + active buffs That's like at least half the game right there. There will probably be guides eventually but it might take awhile. Potato McWhiskey's pre-release game had an emphasis on tactical combat but it was a bit too fast for me to really figure out what he was doing. I won my first game with mostly autocombat and now I'm trying one where I focus more on manual combat. As far as range, a lot of battle mage units and lords (and Zephyr archers) get a 6 range attack that takes all 3 AP, so you can't move and use it. OwlFancier posted:1. you heal 5 per turn in neutral terrain unless your world has no respite or possibly if there is some other modifier at play. If you do the walk up trick I suggest stopping one hex away, so their melee have to move up one and then get two attacks instead of three. However, whether you do this depends heavily on unit types. There's actually 3 main melee types of units, and 2 "kinda": Shield units usually have decent defenses and low damage, but their attack scales based on AP: You get 3 attacks with 3 AP. This makes starting adjacent to a shield unit surprisingly painful despite the low damage. If on defense, their shield block increases the defense of adjacent units. Shock units (frequently cavalry, but also stuff like berserkers): Their attack doesn't scale on AP, so they do the same damage moving four spaces and then attacking as if they started adjacent (and they even get +20% damage for each hex they move while attacking). Their attack cancels retaliation and kicks a unit out of defense mode. This makes them a natural counter to shield units, and they can sprint across the intervening space and hit just fine; that is in fact their intended use. Polearm units: Polearm units inflict their retaliation before being hit (countering Shock's ability to negate it with an attack), negate the charge bonus, and get a damage bonus against cavalry and large targets. Like shield units their attack scales on AP, so moving and attacking will result in limited damage. Obviously there's a bit of rock/paper/scissors going on here, but how to handle the initial melee engagement is highly dependent on recognizing the type of melee units both you and the opponent are using. The two "kinda" melee unit types are: Skirmisher: Skirmishers are mainly notable for getting both a melee attack (usually scaled on AP) and a ranged attack (that usually doesn't), and they don't trigger opportunity attacks. If you're going to do the "walk up and stop a tile away" trick skirmishers might work well since they can stop there and throw javelins or whatever. The only culture that gets a skirmisher by default is barbarian, but there are other ways to get them. Fighter: Fighters are basically a catch all term for melee units that don't fall into any other category. Sometimes they have things like a melee range AoE or similar; if you see one check the stats page. No culture gets a fighter by default but there are some summons/wild ones. Bremen fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 17:40
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Tempora Mutantur posted:two main questions: You heal a lot more HP in friendly terrain than in neutral/hostile terrain. If you have a Dark affinity you can grab a late-imperium bonus of healing an addition 10hp per turn in hostile terrain. There's an early nature affinity imperium boost that increases the amount you heal in friendly territory as well. So it's pretty much always worth it to get an outpost if you're doing a lot of fighting outside your realm.
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May 4, 2023 17:46
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Tome of Faith also has a campaign map army heal spell.
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May 4, 2023 17:51
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OwlFancier posted:1. you heal 5 per turn in neutral terrain unless your world has no respite or possibly if there is some other modifier at play. Absolutely disagree. Especially with a charger or two to cancel defence mode, the alpha strike is king. Even if they got pikemen three dudes ganging up will typically wipe out a unit, and some ranged will finish them up otherwise. Success for me so far has 100% revolved around being the first one to start taking units off the battlefield, even if you take some more damage on the crackback.
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May 4, 2023 17:52
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Tempora Mutantur posted:2) is there a good video or writeup on tactics when fighting manually? cause holy poo poo my armies suck in my own hands/take a VERY long time to micro to win without taking damage, but roll easily when I do auto combat with larger forces + active buffs The decision on how to take the engage turn is probably the most important choice in any combat with relatively equal strength. Against the AI you can usually assume it will try to set up a turn where it's melee is at exactly 1 AP attack range away from you, which is nice, but as far as actually figuring out if you should push forward from there or hold your ground that really depends on your build. As a general rule, being the side to "take" the engagement (e.g. get hit with one attack) has an advantage at lower skill levels and a disadvantage at higher skill levels but that's a very fuzzy line. Against the AI either works but if you're newer the defensive line is usually easier (but I find it to be more boring, personally). The best I can give you for a simple metric is that if you have a majority-shield, majority-fighter, or majority-repeating-attack-ranged army, hold. If you have a majority-skirmisher, majority-single-attack-ranged, or majority-shock army, attack. This is very much an oversimplification. edit: you should also check your opponent's army on this as well, because sometimes it's better to force them to take their less natural option.
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May 4, 2023 17:57
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Also. You can definitely outrange opponents. See what I said about high culture and archers. You can have their range up to 6 while awakened right at the start if you start off with the tome of enchantment.
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May 4, 2023 18:02
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MonsieurChoc posted:If I use the penguin tome mod can i still get achievements? You can still get achievements with mods. I have Massive Maps and 12 players and Age of Colors enabled and have been getting them
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May 4, 2023 18:08
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Eschatos posted:Absolutely disagree. Especially with a charger or two to cancel defence mode, the alpha strike is king. Even if they got pikemen three dudes ganging up will typically wipe out a unit, and some ranged will finish them up otherwise. Success for me so far has 100% revolved around being the first one to start taking units off the battlefield, even if you take some more damage on the crackback. If you have units that are capable of dealing more damage to the enemy then sure, but the majority of units and situations you will be in favour the defender, especially with the units you start the game with. If you truck up to the enemy with your starting shield units then you will be trading unfavourably in every circumstance. Conversely, as I have been favouring ranged, getting the enemy to approach me and tying them down behind their own units and keeping them out of their own attack range as much as possible has been the best way to destroy their forces. If you have numerical superiority also then yes you can overrun the enemy, but most units in a square fight will lose if they attack first, assuming the enemy has some units capable of projecting defence auras and is keeping their ranged close by, which they usually do.
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May 4, 2023 18:12
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Aww man hotfix means my game broke until the penguin mod is also updated. Gotta wait a bit to continue that game.
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May 4, 2023 18:14
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May 4, 2023 18:16
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thanks everyone, that all makes sense it's been amusing to run Adaptable Feudal Prolific Swarmer Pikemen with a hero immediately learning +2 unit xp/turn to pump out 5 defenders by like turn 9-10 the latest depending on fights, especially with a couple of archer/banner stacks following them around, but I assume Overwhelming Tactics or w/e is better for the +20% crit chance time to grind out mystic unit playthroughs till I can wield them decently, cause that sounds more amusing Randarkman posted:Also. You can definitely outrange opponents. See what I said about high culture and archers. You can have their range up to 6 while awakened right at the start if you start off with the tome of enchantment. yeah seeker arrows are pretty sweet, especially with awakened dusk archers or w/e, was talking more about default scenarios where ranged attacks are typically 4 except abilities like flamestrike and stuff
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May 4, 2023 18:17
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The fallen Kingdom realm modifier is not easy. I was able to knock out one of the pretenders by sniping him and allied one of the others, but got absolutely no help trying to knock out. The third who by turn 50 was continually pumping out tier 3 units. With an eight turn lock from my capital, and my mixed army of tier 1 tier 2s and summons, it was too much of a slog to try to finish the map so I gave up. If you Play this realm, I'd recommend not trying to rush down the last kingdom. They start with a significant advantage over you and you need to expand and build up your economic base.
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May 4, 2023 18:19
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I was on the hotfix up until the patch today dropped and things went from stable, with the hotfix, to unplayable with the new patch. Going back to the hotfix branch isn't fixing things. Anyone else?
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May 4, 2023 18:39
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How do you set up an outpost? How do you get more heroes?
Mayveena fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 18:43
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Mayveena posted:How do you set up an outpost? How do you get more heroes? Click on any unclaimed sector while a hero is in it, you'll get a button to build an outpost. You'll get a prompt to hire a new hero every time you build a new city, otherwise click the heroes tab in the top left.
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May 4, 2023 18:48
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Mayveena posted:How do you set up an outpost? How do you get more heroes? For an outpost you need to click on a province you have a hero in and then do 'establish outpost'. The only real rule is that they can't be on lava/water or within 1 tile of another city or outpost. To get more heroes get more cities. You can have 1 hero per city you have. When you found a city it'll pop up the hero recruitment tab automatically, if you integrate a vassal it'll give you whatever hero that city already had.
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May 4, 2023 18:50
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You can actually have as many heroes as you like, they're just expensive if you go more than 1 per city.
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May 4, 2023 18:51
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You can have more heroes, they just cost 30 gold upkeep withotu a city. Getting an additional one early might be a good idea as they'll recruit instantly and you can level them up form the get go and it won't be too long probably until you have a second city.
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May 4, 2023 18:52
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   The modding tools are very good. Everyone is now a warbreed, always
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May 4, 2023 19:02
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very minor thing, but it would be so convenient to be able to reach the encyclopedia from the create faction screen, even though that's just for newbs/people who spend more time creating than playing factions
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May 4, 2023 19:05
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OwlFancier posted:If you have units that are capable of dealing more damage to the enemy then sure, but the majority of units and situations you will be in favour the defender, especially with the units you start the game with. If you truck up to the enemy with your starting shield units then you will be trading unfavourably in every circumstance. Keep in mind that if you hit first, you're inflicting casualties first, lowering their ability to counterattack on their turn. If you're attacking first you should be pre-positioning prior to engage to set up outright killing a unit or two on engagement, which helps a lot with the action economy on engaging. In previous games' pvp you basically spent the first few turns trying to jockey into position such that if your opponent engages you, their engagement will do little damage, while also setting up that if you're the one engaging you can engage in safe positions or secure picks on the engagement. The engagement turn is traditionally like half the battle if not more. I don't see a lot in 4 changing this (which is fine)
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May 4, 2023 19:06
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Tempora Mutantur posted:very minor thing, but it would be so convenient to be able to reach the encyclopedia from the create faction screen, even though that's just for newbs/people who spend more time creating than playing factions Try pressing F1, that worked in development.
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May 4, 2023 19:08
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drat, I think this build is actually pretty drat powerful. This was a somewhat evenly matched battle, with enemy on-paper strength higher than mine. But I proceeded to absolutely demolish them. No losses, only token damage to one of my t1 sword and board units, enemy comletely broken after losing maybe half or less of their units. 
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May 4, 2023 19:09
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