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Decades from now a Secret Service invoice will show up on microfiche charging ten dollars to register the user name "Pig Balls."
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May 4, 2023 20:38
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James Garfield posted:Did Steve Scalise get any more moderate after a guy shot him? Do you think he would have moderated even more if the shooter had announced that he was shooting Steve Scalise to punish him for being a Republican? No, but did you see the way MTG ran from people just saying mean things to her in NYC? There are plenty of cowards who just might decide to take their ball and go home if we normalized discussing violence in the same ways they do. Remember when Rudy was "assaulted"? These cowards only come out because they know they're safe. If anyone who disagrees with them even gets near them they crumple. Maybe we don't give the creeping authoritarianism in our country permission by way of decorum. We can and should discuss violence against the rulers because they don't want us to. Fear of violence shouldn't be saved just for our schools, or disadvantaged parts of our populations. We should spread it to people who can do something about it. I forgot this was originally about the justices being corrupt, but unelected officials should bear the highest burden of scrutiny, and should be the most afraid of the population at large. There's only like 9 of them. Without looking I'm willing to bet more kids died in school shootings this week, and all of their lives are at least equally as valuable as a group of senior citizens in robes. Beast Pussy fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 20:46
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Tayter Swift posted:Decades from now a Secret Service invoice will show up on microfiche charging ten dollars to register the user name "Pig Balls." who's gonna redtext the secret service?
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May 4, 2023 20:46
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Political violence isn't exactly a panacea. Bombings, assassinations, threats, kidnappings, all of these things have occurred throughout history, utilized by various movements — and a whole hell of a lot of it didn't change much of anything, or was used as an excuse to crack down even harder on political opposition. This isn't to say there isn't a time or place for political violence. But in a society like ours, political violence is far, far more likely to backfire and invite more repression or public backlash as opposed to actually accomplishing the goals of those perpetrating it, particularly for those on the left.
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May 4, 2023 20:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nobody on the current moderation staff. One of the admins is sort of affiliated with the FBI, but no there's no CIA as far as I know. Vilerat is still a mod 
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May 4, 2023 21:06
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Political violence isn't exactly a panacea. Bombings, assassinations, threats, kidnappings, all of these things have occurred throughout history, utilized by various movements — and a whole hell of a lot of it didn't change much of anything, or was used as an excuse to crack down even harder on political opposition. This isn't to say there isn't a time or place for political violence. But in a society like ours, political violence is far, far more likely to backfire and invite more repression or public backlash as opposed to actually accomplishing the goals of those perpetrating it, particularly for those on the left. Is this what cognitive dissonance feels like? I typed up like three responses, and they were all basically "But we need to do something". You're correct.
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May 4, 2023 21:23
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Whatever your opinion of the current level of leftist violence, I think there is ample evidence that people on the right are concerned about it. Even an elite like Carlson, who we would think knew “antifa” fearmongering was bullshit, is actually afraid of them. Turns out that when people with guns get afraid it makes them more aggressive, not less.
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May 4, 2023 21:28
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I'm pretty sure the argument is less "don't engage in political violence ever" but instead "don't talk about doing specific political violence on a loving public server." EDIT: Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Not sure what you are referencing here. There is no situation where a ruling would be in and of itself an arrestable offense. I looked it up again, and judges cannot be sued for rulings that are within their juridiction no matter how loathsome that ruling is. The Supreme Court case ruling was over a lower court judge ordering a 15 year old girl sterlized without her or her mother's knowlege or consent. ( Go in for appendectomy, come out sterlized. ) Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 21:40
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PeterWeller posted:In years to come, nerds will accuse SA of being a CIA op the way we accuse the Iowa Writers' Workshop of being a CIA op. What do you mean in years to come. That already happened like a decade ago.
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May 4, 2023 21:49
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Twincityhacker posted:It's illegal to arrest a judge due to rulings they made in court, or something very similar to that effect. All I can think of is how it's illegal to punish a juror for their verdict dating back to some trial back in Quaker times where a judge straight up said "Either you declare this man guilty, or you'll be joining him in jail."
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May 4, 2023 22:01
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Twincityhacker posted:I looked it up again, and judges cannot be sued for rulings that are within their juridiction no matter how loathsome that ruling is. The Supreme Court case ruling was over a lower court judge ordering a 15 year old girl sterlized without her or her mother's knowlege or consent. ( Go in for appendectomy, come out sterlized. ) I'm clearly late to this party but what the gently caress
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May 4, 2023 22:29
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You can still gently caress them for judicial misconduct in such cases Hypothetically
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May 4, 2023 22:34
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:This FBI Informant testified that the Proud Boys were not organized. From many pages back but: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/fbi-official-was-warned-jan-6-bureau-sympathetic-capitol-rioters-rcna52144 quote:The person also wrote that an official in one FBI office in a “red state” said that more than 70% of that office's counterterrorism squad and about three-quarters of its agent population disagreed with the violence, “but could understand where the frustration was coming from.” Also 5 proud boys got convicted of seditious conspiracy, sounds pretty organized to me.
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May 4, 2023 23:00
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Political violence, like all violence, is a temporary solution to a persisting problem - even the House of Bourbon came back after the storming of the Bastille.
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May 4, 2023 23:31
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Zamujasa posted:I'm clearly late to this party but what the gently caress Never forget that Eugenics was as American as Apple Pie before some rear end in a top hat Austrian went and hosed it all up.
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May 5, 2023 00:02
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Our political and financial elite feel very comfortable though, is the thing. You can see by the policies they enact that they do not believe there are any consequences for their actions. I agree that random sudden acts of violence probably cause more harm than good but it is important for politicians to at least believe that there is a huge, powerful underclass that if roused to violence, will loving kill them. I think we've swung extremely far in the opposite direction. Remember how outraged the right was when people were bothering them at dinner for their monstrous policies? Even the Democrats believe that good things can be delayed indefinitely in light of 'political realities', when in real life the 'political reality' we live in should have them throwing rocks at their conservative counterparts and screaming at them in the hallways. No one believes real violence will happen. It's why everybody poo poo themselves over the BLM protests with a healthy dose of racism in the mix. I'm not saying somebody needs to die but certainly people need to feel like they could. \/ Fister Roboto posted:For this discussion it's important to keep in mind that direct action can be radical and disruptive without being violent. The problem is that this requires a sustained mass movement of people who are willing to face violence committed against them. Most Americans' idea of a protest is showing up with a sign and yelling for an hour or two and then going home to pat themselves on the back. This is a good point, but it's also important to remember capitalists have begun terming completely peaceful protests 'violent' because it disrupts capital. If I vandalize a Starbucks or help clog up a highway for a couple of days, that's a relatively peaceful form of protest, albeit a disruptive one, but because it disrupts money it's termed violent. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 00:52 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 00:43
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For this discussion it's important to keep in mind that direct action can be radical and disruptive without being violent. The problem is that this requires a sustained mass movement of people who are willing to face violence committed against them. Most Americans' idea of a protest is showing up with a sign and yelling for an hour or two and then going home to pat themselves on the back. And even then it would be insanely stupid to talk about specifics here, because the authorities would be just as happy to lock you up as if you were planning a violent attack.
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May 5, 2023 00:46
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1654265190052159489?s=46&t=JBd6ZXmGQ3LmWL-ineTnAA It really is remarkable how cheap US politicians are compared to their European counterparts. Like I’m ukraine their corrupt leaders get gold plated submarines that lead to their underwater zoos or whatever.
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May 5, 2023 00:57
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Fister Roboto posted:Most Americans' idea of a protest is showing up with a sign and yelling for an hour or two and then going home to pat themselves on the back. 
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May 5, 2023 00:58
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FizFashizzle posted:https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1654265190052159489?s=46&t=JBd6ZXmGQ3LmWL-ineTnAA Again, when you know there's no consequences, bribery gets hella cheap. That's the trade off. If you could get hanged for getting bribed you better believe it's going to cost you.
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May 5, 2023 01:03
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That's right. e: but seriously there's no reason to jump immediately to openly talking about violence when there's a whole spectrum of action that hasn't even been tried. The Floyd protests were a step in the right direction, but that energy seems to have completely dried up after Biden was elected. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 01:16 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 01:08
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Mendrian posted:Our political and financial elite feel very comfortable though, is the thing. You can see by the policies they enact that they do not believe there are any consequences for their actions. I agree that random sudden acts of violence probably cause more harm than good but it is important for politicians to at least believe that there is a huge, powerful underclass that if roused to violence, will loving kill them. It's so the state can bring violence against it. You reference BLM but so many of those protests are peaceful until they turn into riots kicked off by police. Standing Rock was a disruptive non-violent movement that had violence brought against it by the government. Occupy Wall Street. The vigils today for Jordan Neely where the police attacked a peaceful vigil. In the end opposition movements don't actually get to decide if they're violent. And in reality in the US there really isn't any organized militant left. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 01:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's so the state can bring violence against it. You reference BLM but so many of those protests are peaceful until they turn into riots kicked off by police. Standing Rock was a disruptive non-violent movement that had violence brought against it by the government. Occupy Wall Street. The vigils today for Jordan Neely where the police attacked a peaceful vigil. I also remember in 2017 during the protests over Trump's inaugural how the new admin charged a bunch of protestors with serious crimes because they were in the general vicinity of a trash can fire. Eventually the charges all got thrown out but they still got arrested and had to appear at several hearings.
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May 5, 2023 01:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:At Cop City in Atlanta they were arresting activists who just happened to be in the area of the site (not even necessarily on the property) and a lot of them were denied bail and are going to sit in jail until their court date. This also happened to some people who put up a poster with the name of one of the cops that killed the activist that caused the protests to kick off there recently.
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May 5, 2023 02:05
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cat botherer posted:IIRC, the only guy who got bail just so happened to be a law student.
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May 5, 2023 02:07
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As all these billionaires are bribing the SCOTUS, why are they not being investigated and charged for bribery? Also, were all these payments taxed by the IRS.
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May 5, 2023 02:08
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Comstar posted:As all these billionaires are bribing the SCOTUS, why are they not being investigated and charged for bribery? Because it's not a bribe unless you literally say "this is a bribe". Otherwise it's legal. Guess who decided that.....
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May 5, 2023 02:19
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Comstar posted:As all these billionaires are bribing the SCOTUS, why are they not being investigated and charged for bribery? https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/the-supreme-courts-bribery-blessing-mcdonnell-decision quote:Something as subtle—or unsubtle—as an executive calling up an aide and telling her to listen to his very good friend, or taking a check and then having a quiet word with regulators, or even a directive that an influence-buyer should be helped in every way does not constitute an official act, at least not on its own, the Court found. Instead, according to the opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts, an official act "must involve a formal exercise of governmental power that is similar in nature to a lawsuit before a court, a determination before an agency, or a hearing before a committee.” The supreme court has already ruled that bribery is practically impossible to commit. You have to go on tv and hand a cartoon bag of money to a politician and announce you are giving them money quid pro quo and you understand it's an illegal transfer of cash and expect to be prosecuted for a crime you are actively, intentionally committing Even then it's murky
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May 5, 2023 02:21
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Twincityhacker posted:I'm pretty sure the argument is less "don't engage in political violence ever" but instead "don't talk about doing specific political violence on a loving public server." You're talking about Stump vs. Sparkman, right? According to the Wikipedia page, her mother petitioned the lower court to sterilise her daughter and the judge approved, so it was done without the daughter's knowledge or consent, but definitely with the mother's. (It's still absolutely horrendous. Like, if there's no law or general principle empowering the judge to grant a petition to sterilise a minor and if the judge failed utterly to follow due process, then I've no clue how it can be read as a normal judicial act. Or why there isn't criminal liability attached. Just disgusting.)
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May 5, 2023 02:23
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cat botherer posted:https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2023/05/03/manhattan-da-investigating-death-of-man-choked-on-subway Hochul is not very smart, as it turns out
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May 5, 2023 02:24
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VideoGameVet posted:YES, that is true. Yes, /and/... HRC cut WikiLeaks off from donors by flashing federal badges at paypal, visa, mastercard, etc This illustrated a challenge. And yeah, turns out Assange is a piece of poo poo. For a number of reasons. Nonetheless, WikiLeaks benefited greatly from the tech. Also, the war in syria.... direct action groups on all sides would shoot sick vid of them hitting a strategic target, and fundraise that way using crypto. I couldn't tell you if the vids were typically verticle or horizontal. A lot of drugs were bought with the tech. In sure I'm missing many other such "motivators", but that's a sample.
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May 5, 2023 02:31
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Making the case for a Necessity Defence (and pointing to cases where it worked) is fair game. It's basically pleading for jury nullification. And the judge has to allow it. Ianal, correct the gently caress of me - its a good, not-bannable conversation. Similarly, one could spend time arguing that drilling holes in a pipeline to prevent it from being turned on /may/ be a wise move - its not violent (pipe aint got feelings) and its not public infrastructure (it's owned privately), etc. Not every forum tolerates these discussions. Robocops on Facebook auto-probe of you state plainly that Donald Trump ought to be charged with treason, convicted, and sentenced to hang. However, if you state that trump ought be charged with treason, convicted, and handed the harshest sentence allowable by the us constitution, Maga chuds can all mass report you and you'll win every appeal - they can't take you down. I like SA's moderation, broadly.
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May 5, 2023 02:43
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Fister Roboto posted:That's right. Just a reminder that the Floyd protests absolutely did get violent in Minneapolis. 2 people died in burning buildings here
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May 5, 2023 03:26
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Gyges posted:Never forget that Eugenics was as American as Apple Pie before some rear end in a top hat Austrian went and hosed it all up. forced sterilization in the united states didn't end until decades after ww2. like i think the last one was in the 1980s.
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May 5, 2023 04:01
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Kalit posted:Just a reminder that the Floyd protests absolutely did get violent in Minneapolis. 2 people died in burning buildings here All that and fewer deaths than the average mass shooting that makes the National News. How many thousands do y'all think the average CHUD thinks died in those protests?
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May 5, 2023 04:14
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:- Constitutional amendment to abolish the Supreme Court. There's more, like adding more Supreme Court Justices to dilute power or have the Justice Department investigate family members and friends/donors. If SCOTUS wants to play gangsters, then treat them like gangsters and go after accomplices. The point is that there's solutions beyond impeachment, it's Biden and the establishment Dems wanting to keep the status quo going instead of doing anything with conviction.
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May 5, 2023 04:18
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Young Freud posted:There's more, like adding more Supreme Court Justices to dilute power or have the Justice Department investigate family members and friends/donors. If SCOTUS wants to play gangsters, then treat them like gangsters and go after accomplices. The question was specifically, "How do you legally remove a Supreme Court Justice?" Adding new justices doesn't actually remove the old ones. Only constitutional amendment, impeachment and conviction, or high-stakes dart games can.
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May 5, 2023 04:20
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Kalit posted:Just a reminder that the Floyd protests absolutely did get violent in Minneapolis. 2 people died in burning buildings here Cool, thanks for the reminder. It has nothing to do with what I said though.
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May 5, 2023 04:51
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Mendrian posted:Our political and financial elite feel very comfortable though, is the thing. You can see by the policies they enact that they do not believe there are any consequences for their actions. I agree that random sudden acts of violence probably cause more harm than good but it is important for politicians to at least believe that there is a huge, powerful underclass that if roused to violence, will loving kill them. Can this logic be applied to a defense of Jan 6th?
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May 5, 2023 05:29
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No because Jan 6th had nothing to do with holding politicians accountable for their actions.
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May 5, 2023 05:32
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