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Serial Architectural Compromiser Episode 5YaketySass posted:They've added so much content over the years that the absence of new models for monks (outside of American civs) keeps surprising me. I guess it could get a bit culturally dicey though, or represent a lot of work if you get sufficiently granular like this concept page does. ==== Now that the topic has been brought up, from a UX-oriented perspective, there's great value in giving unique Castles to each civ (only AoE2DE's DLC civs have unique Castles now). Castles have three interconnected traits: - They are where a civ's unique unit and techs are located, hence being visually unique is consistent with their purpose; - They are big and eye-catching; - They have a crucial role in every civ's game plan and appear in every normal match. All three are advantages that Monasteries and Monks don't have. Together they guarantee that unique Castles, if implemented, would become the most definitive signature of each civ, unlike Wonders which don't show up in ranked play. Still, it's hard to say when, or if, this is going to happen. When it does, I'd certainly prefer to see them more stylistically consistent and better-researched.  We've already seen the unique Castles of both Dawn of the Dukes civs, based on Karlstein and Bedzin. While no doubt important in medieval times (it used to house the Holy Roman Empire crown), the Karlstein sprite: 1) breaks AoE2 conventions by being too large and not oriented along the grid axes; 2) is based on the castle's modern look, which is from the end-of-19th century renovation that made it "more medieval, just like my fantasies !!1!" I don't have a problem with this second point, but yes, I've seen people complain "we have authentic Gothic castles in Czechia!"  Before: Karlstein's 15-19th century Renaissance style. After: the neo-Gothic flip added a tapering roof and decorative buttresses. ==== Repeating from last page: If any German-speaking goon is entertained by my droning about architecture, source research and behind the scenes stories, I may use some help translating a podcast interview with AoE2DE's Art Director. Contact me by DM if necessary. cuc fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 20:24
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Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Spanish Unique Unit: Conquistador - mounted gunpowder unit Unique Unit: Missionary - mounted monk that cannot collect relics Unique Techs: Inquisition: increases conversion speed for Monks and Missionaries. Missionaries +1 range. Supremacy: Gives Villagers +6 attack, +2/+2 armor, and +40 HP. Civ Bonuses: Builders work 30% faster (20% for Wonders). Blacksmith upgrades don't cost gold. Cannon Galleon projectiles have Ballistics-like accuracy and move faster. Gunpowder units fire 18% faster. Receive 20 gold for each technology researched. Trade units generate +25% gold. Competitive Rating: Below Average The Spanish are an odd duck of a civ that's risen and fallen in the metagame and risen again (currently, fallen). They are an exceptional late game civilization: conquistadores are very powerful units, they can creep towers and castles like nobody's business, they have paladins and hussars with a full suite of upgrades, and they have every naval and monk tech in the game. The Spanish are oppressive and everywhere in the lower end of the multiplayer scene, but fall off significantly as you creep into the upper tiers. The reason is similar to the Turks: the Spanish are extremely reliant on gold to fuel their power. They get some advantages to economize their gold, like the Turks, but this cardinal weakness remains. Further, the Spanish do not upgrade their archers. Ever. The Spanish get a full set of blacksmith upgrades, but are one of only two civilizations to not get the crossbow and this is a painful blow to the Spanish early game. Like the Turks, late-game Spanish operating at full power are devastating, if in a subtly different way. Conquistadores are the first unique unit I've talked about since the mangudai that can dominate a game by themselves, Spanish monks make a credible argument for being the best in the game, and nobody drops castles on your porch like the Spanish. Their navy is also very formidable, if again they don't get any actual bonuses until the late game. The Spanish are most famous these days for being kings of the Nomad game type, a format where you start with villagers but no town center. No one builds a base faster than the Spanish, and that sheer speed is enough to make the Spanish top tier in this game format. I rate the Spanish below their Turkish cousins, though, because the Spanish have an even more narrowly defined game plan. The Turks have janissaries, bombards, hussars, and cavalry archers all enriched with bonuses. The Spanish have conquistadores and monks. While these are both good, everywhere else the Spanish are forced to rely on merely average units and lack crossbows. Nomad aside, the Spanish early game is painful and it's all too common for the Spanish to be corralled and boxed in, or simply obliterated, inside the first fifteen minutes of the game.
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May 4, 2023 22:48
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Battles of the Conquerors: Kyoto Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Japanese Theme Intro Text "The ships slide through a mirror-flat ocean stained red with spring seaweed. Columns of rock improbably draped with pine trees tower out of the mist. The men on the ships watch silently as the samurai prowl the deck above. They will make land near Kyoto and their lord, Hideyoshi, will lead the siege of the city of ten-thousand shrines. Within Kyoto, revolutionaries hold prisoner Lord Nobunaga--the man who would unify Japan. The islands of Japan remain a patchwork of bickering samurai warlords who still settle conflicts with ritualized duels. Nobunaga seeks to forge a single Japan, dragging the provincial samurai into the modern era. Like his master Nobunaga, Hideyoshi wins his battles by volleys of muskets, fully exploiting the firearms recently introduced by Portuguese sailors. Hideyoshi intends no bargaining - he will demand once for Nobunaga's release, and then storm the city."  Hideyoshi's Soldier: Lord Nobunaga is in Kyoto. We must rescue him to restore his honor. You start this scenario with four half-dead Samurai, Nobunaga, and a Castle... against an entire army. It takes approximately 30 seconds for everyone to bite it.  Hideyoshi's Soldier: The rebels in Kyoto have executed Lord Nobunaga! They will pay for this offense with their lives. Leave no castle standing! Okay yeah, so this is just a cutscene before the real mission starts.  Nobunaga's Sailor: Prepare to disembark on enemy shores. (after the initial wave lands) We will send in saboteurs to open that wall.  You have to use some Fire Ships to stop Osaka's ships from destroying your Transports. After your troops make it to shore, Nobunaga's forces deploy one final set of saboteurs to blow open a hole in the walls before resigning.   Hideyoshi's Soldier: We have captured enemy bombards.   Hideyoshi's Soldier: We have captured the enemy town center. The town of Osaka is divided into 4 quarters (Market, Military, Town Center, Castle). Defeat the forces of each quarter to claim it, with the possible exception of the northern quarter which just has a Castle and I found needed to be destroyed no matter what. This is made easier by the Market quarter giving you access to 4 Bombard Cannons (which the Japanese cannot normally build), letting you attack enemy troops and the Castle at a distance with minimal cost to your forces. At this point it's a race against time to build up your economy, because...  At approximately a half hour in, Kyoto will gather all of the map's relics and start a countdown timer to your defeat unless you can destroy the relevant Monastery or win the mission first.  I build up as large an army as I can, then build a small Transport fleet with the intent to move it all to Kyoto's side of the river. Kyoto sends a few fire ships to attack, but my Hand Cannoneers are enough to deal with them.  Establishing the initial beachhead here is a difficult fight, but necessary. Doing so also allows me to destroy one of the 3 Castles needed to win the mission.   Attacking from this side also allows me to destroy Kyoto's docks, which makes keeping military infrastructure on Kyoto's side of the river much easier. I'm trying to take advantage of the Japanese' Infantry bonus to spam a ton of Champions, backed by Hand Cannoneers and Trebuchets. It's not the most synergistic army, but at least I have something to shoot at enemy Scorpions and ranged units from a distance. I'm also notably not using the Samurai, the Japanese Unique Unit. This is because most of the time, Champions fill basically the same role as the Samurai unless you're specifically trying to defeat enemy unique units, against which the Samurai gets bonus damage.    Hideyoshi's Soldier: Lord Hideyoshi has cast down another enemy. Soon, all of Japan will be unified under a single leader and we can be done with these civil wars forever! The rest of Kyoto's military infrastructure and Castles are camped right next to each other, so if you can get to this point it's just about throwing bodies in between the enemy troops and your Trebuchets until they tear down the two remaining Castles and complete the scenario. Ending Text "Kyoto paid dearly for Nobunaga's death and in the end, Hideyoshi was able to accomplish what his mentor could not - by 1590, Japan was a unified country. Great though it was, this accomplishment did not satisfy Hideyoshi, who then set about on an ambitious plan to conquer China and Korea. Japan was not free of conflict, as civil wars continued to rise and fall for many years. However, the Ieyasu family, former allies of Hideyoshi, continued to rule Japan as Shoguns until the 19th century." The thing about Kyoto starting the relic victory really early is that it puts you on the clock to finish the mission as quickly as possible: by that point you're either capable of destroying Kyoto altogether, in which case why bother going after the Monastery when you can just win? Or you aren't, in which case you lose. I even had to bypass an entire faction of the map because taking it down wasn't as efficient compared as going after Kyoto. Extra Slides Intro Slide 1 Intro Slide 2 Intro Slide 3 End Slide 1 End Slide 2
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May 5, 2023 06:00
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Any idea why they decided to reduce Mitsuhide Akechi to some generic mob of rebels? And they turn what should be the Battle of Yamazaki into some kind of siege of Kyoto.
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May 5, 2023 06:06
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I think that's standard for a lot of the Battles of the Conquerors. Even moreso than the other campaigns, which already do this quite a bit, most enemy factions tend to be reduced down to a generic representation of their civilization, with maybe a hero unit that nominally signifies their importance. The only one that didn't seem to do that was Hastings, where Harold the Saxon got to be a notable opponent with a personality.
Jossar fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 06:17
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Jossar posted:Ieyasu family, It blows my mind they didn't fix this for DE Ah yes, famous Japanese dynasty, the Ieyasus
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May 5, 2023 11:06
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Serial Architectural Compromiser Episode 6 The Spanish Wonder is Torre del Oro, the Tower of Gold. The main body of the tower was part of the Seville city wall built by the Moorish Almohad dynasty, 28 years before the city was reconquered by the Kingdom of Castille. The 2nd "cascade" was added in the 14th century; the 3rd tier was added in 1760 during repairs after the Lisbon earthquake. The traditional belief that the tower originally anchored a chain blocking the river, however, has no basis. The Torre del Oro sprite is the first to be explicitly out-of-scale with the rest of AoE2, and the second tallest Wonder sprite in The Conquerors. AoE2 players visiting Seville often find the real watchtower smaller than their in-game impression. In Age of Empires 3, Seville plays the role of the Spanish Home City, and Torre del Oro is its unique building, replacing the Military Academy.  The AoE3 Seville diorama does not put the tower anywhere near its riverbank location. cuc fucked around with this message at 14:13 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 12:27
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Rody One Half posted:It blows my mind they didn't fix this for DE Not only that, but calling the "Ieyasus" Hideyoshi's allies is an extremely generous reading of history, considering they deposed Hideyoshi's son to assume power.
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May 5, 2023 12:54
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What does Hyogo do in this mission? Are they just another player that rushes you?
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May 5, 2023 14:17
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Ornlu got an early look at the Romans game says they are an infantry civ, but they also have lots of bonuses to galleons, and scorpions. powerful civ bonuses and unique techs, but balanced by the lack of some key techs. (ie. villagers build 5% natively, but lack treadmill crane, or infantry get double effect from armour upgrades but lack gambesons and final upgrade) legionary is an imperial age replacement for 2-hand/champ, strong but expensive. likewise for centurion castle uu, as strong as or stronger than paladins with upgrades but expensive. the comitatenses unique tech seems real good for imperial age, giving militia/knight and centurions both faster training speed and a coustillier-style charge attack (but not as strong) also of note is the new dromon, essentially a mangonel on the water, and is available not just to the romans, but to byzantines, goths, and huns as well
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May 5, 2023 20:53
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Mazerunner posted:also of note is the new dromon, essentially a mangonel on the water, and is available not just to the romans, but to byzantines, goths, and huns as well[/spoiler]
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May 5, 2023 21:02
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Map Room Honnō-ji Incident and Battle of Yamazaki (1582) The Honnō Temple, where Akechi Mitsuhide suddenly betrayed his lord Oda Nobunaga at the height of Nobunaga's power. One of the most iconic episodes of Sengoku, reenacted in hundreds of films, TV series and games, about which thousands of theories and alternate histories have been written, guessing at the true motivation of Akechi Mitsuhide, or the different routes Japanese history could have taken.  This map shows a decent view of what happened in the betrayal's wake. - The ochre area shows regions under Nobunaga control, and the oliver area is Tokugawa's domain. - Green text boxes are the notable vassals of Nobunaga. Purple boxes are notable non-Nobunaga factions. - The three cartoon portraits are from left to right, Hideyoshi, Akechi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu. At the time of the incident, Hideyoshi was in the west fighting the Mōri clan (uncolored region to the left, the level's Hyōgo faction). Hearing of his lord's demise, he immediately called a truce with the Mōri, and headed east for the claim on Akechi's head, while Tokugawa also dropped what was on his hands, by going home and securing his own turf. You can see that while Kyōto is near Lake Biwa - the largest freshwater lake in Japan, Hideyoshi did not have to cross water to reach it. And Akechi would be defeated in field battle, not a siege. As edutainment, the only historical nugget this level can teach you is that Hideyoshi built his Ōsaka Castle on the ruins of what he had torn down - the Hongan Temple of Ishiyama, main fortress of the Ikkō-ikki Buddhist rebels. LJN92 posted:Any idea why they decided to reduce Mitsuhide Akechi to some generic mob of rebels? MinistryofLard posted:What does Hyogo do in this mission? Are they just another player that rushes you? cuc fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 21:06
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Poil posted:That sounds absolutely beautiful. Finally a counter to endless ship blobs. maybe- it's listed as anti-building, so there could be some wonkiness about its attack vs naval units. ornlu only showed it in action vs buildings, and it didn't really seem to have a large Age of Empires ahem I mean area of effect actually, the wiki says "their slow rate of fire, slow projectile speed, and minimum range makes them weak and ineffective against ship, particularly fire ships." so looks like no, unfortunately. calling them a water mangonel was wrong on my part, they're more a cannon galleon replacement
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May 5, 2023 21:14
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  For the map in the outro cutscene, the original slide is thematically appropriate to the narration: it shows the state of Sengoku as the fractured lands that Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Ieyasu sought to unify, from an earlier point in their career. Instead of providing a more accurate version of this map, the DE artist meaninglessly copied Kyoto's surroundings, and wrote the city names in a stereotypical "Oriental" style, somehow out-Orientalisting the original. Verdict: original wins.  The DE version of the final slide depicts the Barin Helmet, which has become synonymous with Hideyoshi himself. The barin or baren motif of radiating rays refers to the straight spread out blades of the Iris lactea plant, but Hideyoshi, ever the nouveau riche show-off, turned it into a golden halo. Verdict: DE wins.  Hideyoshi in the 2022 game Nobunaga's Ambition: Shinsei. cuc fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 21:41
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MinistryofLard posted:What does Hyogo do in this mission? Are they just another player that rushes you? cuc posted:Their AI is broken. Their designated targets are buildings in the Osaka town, which they cannot reach (their rams won't attack the walls). Which is just as well given the real history. :V Hyogo can attack you legitimately, but it's still conditioned weirdly. They only seem to go on the offense (with Militia-line units and Rams) once you expand outside of Osaka in their direction. Except the combination of sufficiently plentiful resources in Osaka and Kyoto putting you on a timer means that you never have any reason to do that instead of just charging across the river, so functionally they're a dead player. Jossar fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 23:24
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Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Japanese Unique Unit: Samurai - fast-attacking infantry with an attack bonus against unique units Unique Techs: Yasama: towers fire extra arrows Kataparuto: trebuchets pack, unpack, and fire faster Civ Bonuses: Fishing Ships have double HP, +2 pierce armor, and work 5%/10%/15%/20% faster in the Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age Mills, Lumber Camps and Mining Camps are 50% cheaper. Infantry attack 33% faster starting in the Feudal Age. Galleys have a +50% longer Line of Sight. Competitive Rating: Below Average If the Spanish could be summed up as store brand Turks, the Japanese are the generic off-brand of the Britons. They have a comparable package of bonuses to early food gathering speed (fishing vs sheep), discounts to important buildings for expansion, and better trebuchets, rounded out with a similar tech tree featuring good infantry, archers, navy, and monks, access to cavaliers but no other notable cavalry, and limited siege. The Britons, however, are a consistently high tier civ because they also get bonuses to a very important unit line in archers, and the Japanese are saddled with bonuses to infantry and galleys. The result is a civilization that plays very similarly, just significantly worse for the most part. It should also probably tell you something about the competitive scene that the Japanese can be thought of as dime store Britons primarily on the basis of their economic bonuses, much more than their military. There are perks to the Japanese. Their famously durable fishing ships are a big advantage in mixed maps and makes them very resistant to contested waters, samurai are very powerful units if the Japanese get the chance (and of course are facing something they want to use samurai against, don't try it against, say, Mayans or Chinese), and the Japanese do get hand cannoneers and cannon galleons (but not bombard cannons). Hand cannons and samurai can give the Japanese the killing punch that the Britons often struggle with, but this advantage comes with a corresponding lack of the Britons' civ-defining unit support. The Japanese do see regular play in the tournament circuit, but in a manner similar to the Huns. You want to play Britons, but either your opponent picked them or banned them, so you pick Japanese and hope for the best, and sometimes you do succeed. They are rarely anyone's first choice. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 01:03 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 00:52
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Cythereal posted:Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Spanish Well, they actually got nerfed in the most recent patch. The buildspeed no longer applies to the first town center you build, and that's what made the Spanish so good on Nomad. YaketySass posted:They've added so much content over the years that the absence of new models for monks (outside of American civs) keeps surprising me. I guess it could get a bit culturally dicey though, or represent a lot of work if you get sufficiently granular like this concept page does. Fun fact: The mesoamerican civs only have a special monk sprite because during the development of Conquerors, one artist decided to make the sprite in his free time, otherwise they would have been stuck with the same bald man as everyone else.
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May 6, 2023 15:14
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Battles of the Conquerors: Noryang Point Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Koreans Theme Intro Text "The haze of spent gunpowder hangs over the gravel-strewn beach, confusing the seabirds that nest on the rocky outcroppings of Chinhae Bay. As soon as the winds of the Eastern Sea disrupt the cloud, the Japanese navy will return, cannons blazing at the seawalls and what remains of the Korean fleet. Although the army has so far managed to repel any of the samurai that have waded ashore, it is only a matter of time before the Japanese are victorious. The last hope for the Korean navy is an innovative commander named Yi Sun-shin. Admiral Yi is constructing a secret weapon - a ship with iron armor that can withstand the Japanese cannon and a spiked hull to repel boarders. He calls these ships Kobukson, or Turtle Ships. If Admiral Yi can ready his fleet of Turtle Ships in time, then the Koreans stand a chance of defeating the Japanese. On the other hand, if he is too late..."    Last scenario, we ended with a comment on how Toyotomi Hideyoshi planned on using the forces of a now united Japan to conquer Korea and China. This scenario, we play the Koreans trying to repel Hideyoshi's invasion. It is also the only officially released scenario in all of Age of Empires II that features the Koreans, so blink and you'll never see them again. The scenario starts with everything, quite literally, on fire. Your economy is terrible and even though you're in the Imperial Age, you're still missing a lot of Castle Age upgrades. The Japanese Navy has a whole bunch of Cannon Galleons trying to tear down your Wonder. And after only a few minutes they'll start landing Transports full of Samurai to tear you a new one. The only advantage that you have is that you're playing Koreans, so the game has kindly seen fit to give you a large number of Towers dotted around your base for defense. I move my navy up to assist the Towers in defending the Wonder and have villagers start building extra Towers. It's not necessary, but as long as the Wonder stays up you get +10 pop cap beyond the scenario's normal maximum and the equivalent of a Relic's gold trickle. Saving the Wonder also gets you an achievement. The base just has to garrison villagers and tank the damage until the Samurai are defeated.    What, you didn't think the Japanese Navy was going to be the only thing you had to deal with, right? There's also a force of Raiders to the north which attack with Crossbows, Samurai, and most dangerous of all: Battering Rams. Meanwhile, the Japanese Navy lands another army to the south. This highlights the other reason why you want to keep the Wonder up if possible: it serves as a tarpit for both of the Japanese forces so that they don't wreck your town instead. The navy takes care of the Japanese Navy attack while the Castle and some Militia line units take care of the Raiders' assault. I lose the Castle, but am later able to rebuild it. It's a small price to pay in order to finally get a reprieve from the constant onslaught.  Korean Soldier: We cannot drive off the repeated attacks of these Japanese warships. We must seek aid from Admiral Yi Sun Shin. Rumor has it that he has been working on a secret weapon. In truth, you get this message a lot earlier in the scenario, but I just did not have the time to undertake it until now. The game wants you to go and contact Admiral Yi in order to get access to one of the Koreans' Unique Units, the Turtle Ship (powerful short-ranged gunpowder warship). You cannot progress the main objective of the scenario until you do so. Meanwhile, I am starting to build up an army primarily comprised of the Koreans' other Unique Unit, the War Wagon (high HP and pierce armor cavalry archer).  So there's two ways that you can go about contacting Admiral Yi. The first is by finding a Transport Ship up in the north near the Japanese Raiders, dodging their troops and riding it down to Yi's base. The second is by creating an Onager and smashing all of the trees around the gates until you can walk through. The latter kind of feels like an exploit, but the Koreans are also supposed to be really good at massing Siege Onagers, so it could just be the game's way of telling you to use them.  Korean Soldier: With these Turtle Ships, we will send every Japanese ship to the bottom of the sea! We should build as many as we can. Korean Sailor: Our coast is now rid of Japanese marauders, but they could return in the future. We should sail to Japan and destroy all of the Japanese docks. Either way, once you make it to Admiral Yi, he gives you all of his forces and buildings, including two regular turtle ships and himself (a Turtle Ship Hero unit). In the process of trying to defend the Wonder it also turns out that I had destroyed enough of the Japanese Navy's fleet to trigger the final part of the mission. We have to take the fight to Japan and destroy their Docks, to render the invasion logistically impossible, and force them to surrender.  Chu Ko Nu: Admiral Yi, we can assist you in driving off the Japanese Raiders, but you will have to transport us across the sea. There are a bunch of Bombard Cannons and Elite Chu Ko Nus squatting on Jeju Island, probably because there was nowhere else on the map to put the forces that China sent to aid Korea under Admiral Chen Lin. Once you send Admiral Yi's turtle ships south, the Chinese forces immediately turn to your control, but as stated, need a lift from a Transport to be of any use.  The Japanese Navy also seems to have a special squadron of ships devoted to ensuring that the Chinese forces die before you can make use of them, so make sure to have your ships down south move to intercept the Japanese Navy's attack as quickly as possible.   Destroying the Raiders to the north isn't necessary, but it stops them from trying to do one last desperation attack on the Wonder while you're occupied with Japan.   My own previous efforts in cutting the Japanese Navy down to size and a fleet of Turtle Ships and Cannon Galleons makes short work of the remaining forces guarding the Home Islands.    Korean Soldier: Korea is free once again! This is followed up by an amphibious landing to destroy those Docks that are annoying to reach because they're sufficiently far away from the coast. The Japanese Navy defends the Docks with a large number of Samurai, but I keep them at a distance and have my War Wagons shoot them to pieces. Bombard Cannons tear down the Docks and end the scenario. Ending Text "The Japanese were unable to establish a base on either China or Korea. Therefore, all supplies and reinforcements had to come from the Japanese islands themselves. Once Admiral Yi destroyed the Japanese navy, the samurai armies were isolated from supply, and the invasion ended. Yi Sun-shin died in the battle, but the Japanese commander, Hideyoshi, died soon after, and with him, the lust for Japanese conquest. The possibility of a Japanese empire in eastern Asia in the 16th century died under the guns of slow, but deadly, armored Korean warships." This is an excellent scenario to end the Battles of the Conquerors on, the only real problem it has is the one common to most scenarios, where once you weather the initial terrifying assault and shift the momentum in your favor, you've basically already won. Also Korean units are really big and clunky, but that would be true no matter the scenario. Overall, I think most of the Battles of the Conquerors are a bit more fun conceptually than they are to play. But the ones that are well-executed are very fun. Such is what you get when you reach into a grab-bag. Extra Slides Intro Slide 1 Intro Slide 2 End Slide 1 End Slide 2 Jossar fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 7, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 18:10
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Campaign Vote #6 A. El Cid - Spanish/Saracens B. Montezuma - Aztecs C. Sforza - Italians D. Vlad Dracula - Turks/Magyars/Slavs E. Bari - Byzantines F. Pachacuti - Incas G. Prithviraj - Gurjaras Voting lasts for 24 Hours from the time of this post. In the event of a tie, I will act as the tiebreaking vote between the two tied options. Please bold your vote in order for it to be counted, as well as noting if you are changing your vote from something else. Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 18:12
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Pachacuti good campaign. nice replacement for the El Dorado one. i was pleasantly surprised to fond it in the DE.
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May 6, 2023 18:26
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The scenario really undersells how amazing admiral Yi admiraled. D because I want to fail to break the pattern, and also use this smilie: 
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May 6, 2023 18:40
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F. Pachacuti
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May 6, 2023 18:43
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I always liked playing as the Koreans but I assume their defense focus makes them terrible in any serious multiplayer game. Anyhow, I'd say Montezuma. We haven't seen the Mesoamerican civs yet and it's a pretty good campaign for learning how to overcome having no cavalry.
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May 6, 2023 18:45
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B.Montezuma
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May 6, 2023 19:26
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EL CID!
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May 6, 2023 19:42
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Dracula What is a campaign? A miserable little pile of scenarios.
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May 6, 2023 20:01
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Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Koreans Unique Unit: War Wagon - heavily armored cavalry archer Unique Unit: Turtle Ship - heavily armored ship that fires cannonballs Unique Techs: Eupseong: Towers (except Bombard Towers) have +2 range. Shinkichon: Mangonel line +1 range. Civ Bonuses: Villagers have +3 Line of Sight. Stone Miners work 20% faster. Tower upgrades are free (Bombard Tower requires Chemistry). Archer Armor upgrades are free. Military units cost –20% wood (except siege weapons). Mangonel line minimum range reduced to 1. Competitive Rating: Low The Koreans have similar problems to the Teutons in that they're a very defense-focused civilization that, while they have decent unit and technology access, just don't have much pulling them in a positive direction with the kind of economic and military advantages that make a winning civilization in the current metagame. Mining stone faster and military units costing less wood sounds good, but those are the less useful of the game's resources and on land maps nothing costs much wood except the unit type that's specifically exempt from that bonus. While the Koreans are also billed as a naval power, they have one critical weakness in that regard: they completely lack the demolition ship line, the only civ in the game at present (Romans will also lack them) to not have these extremely valuable sources of area-effect burst damage to break lines and generally make a mess of things. Just the threat of a well placed demo ship can make a difference in a competitive game with water, and turtle ships don't make up for this absence. Turtle ships and war wagons are not bad, but they also don't synergize with the rest of the faction. Koreans in high-end multiplayer are almost exclusively a team game phenomenon where they're used to run interference and protect allies with weaker early games, trading the Koreans' offensive impotence for the promise of a late-game juggernaut that would struggle to survive the early game otherwise. This kind of strategy does pay dividends now and then, but most team game compositions rely on everyone pulling their own weight instead.
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May 6, 2023 20:17
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On the original campaign screen, it was also placed on its own map of Central America, separate from the others' Europe, tempting you to choose it first - at least that was my experience. EDIT: Changing my vote to A. El Cid. ==== Serial Architectural Compromiser Episode 7 There are more stories to tell about the relationship between Korea and Age series, but this episode focuses on one thing: The Korean Wonder, tallest thing in The Conquerors, is the worst Wonder from Ensemble, and a top contender for all-time worst in AoE2. Fans have long described this wonder as based on the pagoda of Hwangnyong-sa, the Temple of Imperial Dragon, burnt down during Mongol invasions. But the truth is - this is wishful thinking. Nothing indicates Ensemble knew anything about Korean architecture in 2000, and they certainly lacked picture references. That's because this model is loosely based on a "five-storey pagoda" of 17-19th century Japan, most likely the one in Tokyo's Sensō-ji, seen by millions of visitors every year. A five-storey pagoda is an unclimbable decorative structure. It is hollow inside, and each storey, with massive eaves, are actually loose "hoops" balanced on a central pillar, allowing them to weather Japan's earthquakes as their own dampers. ...All of that is in steep contrast with the Hwangnyong pagoda, which was a large wooden tower of nine stories (described as 68m or 80m high), built in the 7th century Kingdom of Silla.    Three-way comparison: - 1:10 scale model of Hwangnyong pagoda; - The tallest surviving wooden pagoda (Fogong Temple, China, 1065) at 67m; - The tallest five-storey pagoda (Tō-ji Temple, Kyoto, 1643) at 50m. Upon this foundation, Ensemble added baseless flourishes like octagonal walls, lions in 4 directions, and an open-air pavillion bottom floor - all things you never see in real buildings.  AoE1's Asian Iron Age Town Center has a similar pavillion bottom. Its smaller scale makes it less jarring. Two decades later, AoE2DE would advertise itself on better historical accuracy using a new British Wonder as poster boy (another long story, another time). No thought was spared on the Korean Wonder, which received more fantasy flourishes, including vertical banners with Sejong written in Hangul (Korean alphabet) at the 4-way Japanese-style portals.  I assure you that was not how banners, or King Sejong's name, or Hangul, or portals were used. cuc fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 7, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 21:38
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I rarely ever used the Koreans in this game, but I have to shout them out for being the descendants of my favorite AoE 1 faction (Choson) As for where to go next, El Cid
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May 6, 2023 22:55
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Rodrigue, as-tu du coeur ? Let's go with El Cid.
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May 6, 2023 23:22
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El Cid
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May 7, 2023 07:07
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B.MontezumaJossar posted:In truth, you get this message a lot earlier in the scenario, but I just did not have the time to undertake it until now. The game wants you to go and contact Admiral Yi in order to get access to one of the Koreans' Unique Units, the Turtle Ship (population-heavy, but powerful short-ranged gunpowder warship). What exactly do you mean by this? I don't think there are any units that take more than 1 population point (there's a very small number that take less).
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May 7, 2023 08:52
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*sigh* It's another feature from other games in the Age series/Empire Earth that slipped in because I'm used to thinking of these games interchangeably, and because as you've stated there are units that take less. Will edit it out. EDIT: What I was intuitively referencing is the fact that Turtle Ships are comparatively the same cost as several Galleons and so the game encourages you to be using them as a more "cost-efficient" equivalent to replace some of your Galleons with a single unit. Which is interesting in its own way, but renders my previous statement even more technically incorrect. Jossar fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 7, 2023 |
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May 7, 2023 13:21
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Vote's closed! Viva Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, El Cid!
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May 7, 2023 19:14
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Jossar posted:Turtle Ships are comparatively the same cost as several Galleons... the game encourages you to be using them as a more "cost-efficient" equivalent to replace some of your Galleons with a single unit.
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May 7, 2023 19:38
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El Cid - Part 1: Brother Against Brother Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Machina del Diablo Very well, then let us begin, the tale of the lord of two worlds.   Mission 1 Starting Text "Enough. You have troubled me for three blocks now, stranger. If you agree to cease this dogged pursuit and leave me to my lamentations, then I will answer your relentless questions. I will tell you why a dead man rides through the streets of Valencia. You see that castle on the hill? That is the home of Rodrigo Díaz, whom Moor and Christian alike call 'El Cid'. It is from the Arabic 'sayyid' which means 'lord'. He is the greatest man who ever lived. The Cid was a knight and loyal vassal of one of the old kings of Spain. When the old king died, his kingdom was partitioned between his surviving sons, Sancho and Alfonso. King Sancho ruled Castile, a windswept barren land named for its many border castles. The Cid continued to serve Castile, and its new king, as was his duty. The sly king Alfonso ruled León, but openly plotted to become king of all of Christian Spain. There was soon open warfare between Castile and León. The struggle climaxed at the battle of Golpejera, where the Cid attempted to capture the wicked Alfonso."  King Sancho: Welcome Rodrigo - the tournament only awaits your arrival to begin! You start the El Cid campaign only having control of, well, El Cid (a Hero Champion unit) The first segment of the scenario is a story-heavy tournament where the game works to establish El Cid as a capable fighter and beloved by all those around him. Incidentally if you screw around for too long, King Sancho gets annoyed and switches to Enemy, and his forces try to kill you. But there's no reason why you should ever see that in normal gameplay.  King Sancho: Defeat my champion in combat, Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, and I will give you command of my army! Let the tournament begin!  Sancho's Swordsman: El Cid will fall to my blade! There's pretty much nothing to do here but sit and watch. The stats are such that you literally cannot lose this fight.  Sancho's Knight: I would face the Cid, my king, with your permission. King Sancho: You would face him from horseback? He, afoot? I will not allow that. However, if he wishes, I have a horse for Rodrigo in my stable - Rodrigo? If you ignore the offer for long enough, King Sancho praises El Cid's courage and you fight the Knight with only the amount of healing gained from El Cid's regeneration. I think it may still be impossible to lose at this point, but it's a much closer fight than it needs to be, and the game gets... weird if you try to keep going for too much longer with the unmounted El Cid.  King Sancho: The horse, Bavieca, comes from the renowned royal stables of Seville. (after El Cid reaches the stables) A splendid sight! Now, go back to the task at hand. Take King Sancho up on his offer and El Cid is replaced with El Cid Campeador (a Hero Cavalry unit), the form which he takes through most of the campaign. Defeating the enemy Knight is now much easier. King Sancho then comments: King Sancho: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, the Cid, you will lead the armies of Castile. I am glad that you have won; you are the only man I would trust with a very important duty. Rodrigo, you know of my brother Alfonso. You also know of his ambition to rule all of Spain. I need you to travel to his castle at Golpejera, capture Alfonso and bring him to me so that I may... persuade him that ruling Leon is enough.  King Sancho: Your army has assembled - look! Castilian Army: The Cid! And at this point you finally get control of more troops than just El Cid Campeador.   Ride throughout Castile and scattered throughout the countryside are bands of soldiers that will join your army.  Spanish Serf: Clumsy soldiers! Not two weeks ago another army traipsed through our fields and destroyed half of our harvest! Mind your lumbering feet! (after El Cid Campeador arrives) El Cid! My Lord you lead this rabble - er, the soldiers we have seen around here? Forgive our harsh words, we are at your service. These serfs get super annoyed if you keep running over their fields and will eventually set their status to Enemy if you do so. But in any event, as long as you bring El Cid Campeador to them, they will pledge allegiance to you.  King Sancho: Wonderful, with this building you have begun your quest in earnest! I send my thanks and the thanks of Castile. This is also a good place to set down a Town Center and start building an economy since it's right next to a gold pile (although you're technically stealing it from King Sancho's forces). King Sancho gives you a bunch of resources once you build your first Town Center.  Spanish Monk: We have heard of the Cid's piety and would humbly join his service. Off hidden here in the western corner of the map, in a semi-hidden passage beyond the treeline, is a Monastery and six Monks that will join you. They come with 4 relics, which provide an ample supply of gold for the rest of the mission. There is an achievement for collecting all of the scenario's relics, and these are all but one of them. The last is inside King Alfonso's base.  Spanish Serf: Our homes are yours, El Cid! Finally, if you go back to the east in King Sancho's main town, you get a bunch of free houses.    Honestly, with this many troops I don't really need to build anything else except siege equipment, especially since the game's already given you a whole bunch of Conquistadors (Spanish Unique Unit, a mounted gunpowder unit) to destroy Sancho's army and gates with.    Battering Rams are kind of necessary to destroy the Castle though, since it will tear any of your other units to shreds. If you're trying to go for the achievement, make sure to destroy King Alfonso's Monastery before you finish off the Castle, because...  King Alfonso: So, my brother would have words with me? Since you leave me no choice, I will ride back with you to see him. Once it goes down, King Alfonso surrenders, his Army allies with you, and you gain control of him as a hero King unit (which shows up in some scenarios, but is primarily a fast-moving target that you try to kill to immediately eliminate an opponent in the Regicide game mode).  Bring King Alfonso and El Cid back to the starting tournament grounds and you win the scenario. Mission 1 Ending Text "Although the Cid defeated Alfonso's army in combat, the sly king knew there were more devious ways to win a war. Alfonso lured his brother, King Sancho, to a secret conference below the city walls of Zamora, and had him assassinated in the night. With the death of his brother, Alfonso became king of both Leon and Castile-the most powerful king in Christian Spain. The Cid could not trust King Alfonso, yet he was sworn to serve his new king, and that man was now Alfonso. The Cid forced King Alfonso to swear an oath upon sacred relics that he had nothing to do with Sancho's death. Before his army and his court, a nervous Alfonso did make this declaration. In so doing, the Cid helped to cement Alfonso's claim as king in the hearts of the people, for they so trusted the Cid. King Alfonso did not recognize that the Cid had done him a service. Instead, Alfonso held a grudge against the man who was the greatest of his knights for ever doubting him. Alfonso was also jealous and suspicious of the Cid's popularity with the soldiers and the common man. He sent the Cid into dangerous battle again and again, but always the Cid emerged victorious." Even as a kid, I always found this scenario to be kind of easy, but you're not here for that. You're here for the story elements, which are very well done, albeit maybe a little bit too obsessive in praising El Cid. Extra Slides Mission 1 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 1 - End Slide 1 Mission 1 - End Slide 2 Mission 1 - End Slide 3 Mission 1 - End Slide 4 Mission 1 - End Slide 5 Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:18 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 03:14
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Welp, I just learned I missed about half the free units and buildings you get, including the farmers, and made the mission unnecessarily harder by building my base right in front of Alfonso's. I always found it weird how most of the map is just there for cosmetic purposes but I guess it would be too easy if they didn't ration gold and stone deposits carefully. e: What difficulty are you playing on? I definitely remember this siege being a lot bloodier than described. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:13 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 08:10
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As always, Standard. I imagine on higher difficulties, Alfonso puts up a lot more of a fight at the front gate. But I also went really light on upgrades and didn't try to snipe his stone for a Castle drop right in front of the gate, so I feel like if I had gone all out, even on a higher difficulty it would have been roughly the same result for this one.
Jossar fucked around with this message at 11:54 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 11:52
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I must have played this mission a bajillion times over the past 2 decades and I never knew about the free houses. You can still get the relic after Alfonso allies you, by using a Mangonel to "attack ground" on the monastery and exploiting its friendly fire. I think you can also just change your stance back to enemy, but I'm not sure if this would have any repercussions in this particular case.
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May 8, 2023 17:44
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El Cid - Part 2: The Enemy of my Enemy Mission 2 Starting Text "How do I know so much of my Cid, Rodrigo Díaz? I am Ximena of Asturias, and I am the Dona of this castle. Rodrigo and I were married in Castile in 1075. Those were among the happiest days in my life, at least when my husband was not being sent to do battle against the Moors. Far to the east, in the Holy Land, they speak of only one Muslim expansion - that of the Seljuk Turks. But here, in Spain, we speak of another - the Moors. The Moors ruled southern Spain for so long that Christian and Muslim often lived side by side with little animosity. Such was the case in the city of Toledo, which was in Moorish lands, but inhabited by Christians as well. A political assassination had plunged the city of Toledo into civil war. Seeing a chance to expand his empire, King Alfonso struck at Toledo under the pretense of restoring order. He ordered the Cid to command the army, though one must wonder if once again he was intentionally putting the Cid in harm's way."  Toledo Refugee: My Cid, you must help us! Rebels are tearing our city apart! Search for the Imam - he will know what to do! He fled to the lake to the east. You start the scenario with a moderate army, which is approached by these Villagers running for their lives from Toledo.   The Imam: Welcome, my Cid. I was forced to flee Toledo due to the open rebellion in the streets. I tried to calm the Spaniards and Moors, but they would not listen. The rebel leaders have power because of the relics that they have stolen from churches and mosques. If you could recover all 4 of the relics and bring them to me, I believe I could quell the rebellion. Go east and the game gives you a free Transport to ride over to the Imam's island in the lake, where he gives you the Scenario's objective: grab all 4 of the relics from Toledo in the south and garrison them in his Monastery.  Motamid: This is our well, my Cid, though you may drink of it if you wish. I am Motamid of the Moors. If it is true that you have come to restore order to Toledo, then you have my gratitude. (after a few seconds) My Cid, if you are in need of food, might I suggest fishing from the lake. Motamid here only exists to provide a Market to trade with and an in-game justification for advice on where resources are on the map. Which might be a reference to the fact that collecting tribute/gold from Motamid's historical counterpart was the only reason that the real El Cid was in this region at the time? This mission's kind of a mess historically.  It takes a little bit of wandering, but I eventually find a gold pile on this side of the map to build a base around.   Motamid: My Cid, if you wish to build castles, you will need plenty of stone. My scouts have located a large quarry to the southeast that may be of interest to you. Explore far enough, usually demarcated as near one of the bridges guarding Toledo, and Motamid will point out the map's major stone pile to the southeast. Unless you plan to just buy all your stone, it's worth figuring out how to get here and how to hold the area. You don't want to directly cross the bridges, because those are guarded by a bunch of Towers, but you can skirt them by moving north through the shallows of the water and walking around. The area is located right next to the Moorish Rebels' main economic camp, but your starting army should be enough to defend the place until a Castle goes up and can cover the majority of the work.  The Spanish Rebels are the bigger offensive threat, as despite everyone being in the Castle Age, they start with a bunch of Cavaliers to throw at you. But they send them in waves rather than all at once and are therefore manageable.   After the stone camp is established, I start probing into the Moorish Rebels' base, and destroy most of their economic production while Battering Rams, Monks, and Conquistadors are being produced.  The Spanish Rebels have much more fortified mining camps, these usually aren't worth cracking open unless they're posing a threat to your army or you want to disrupt their economic production.   Attacking Toledo through the Moorish Rebels' base basically gives a free pass into the city. Note that Toledo itself remains allied to you and their gates will let you into further parts of the city, even if the Rebels' don't. This Palisade Wall enclosure contains the first of the four Relics.  The center of Toledo contains a number of Monasteries, two of which contain Relics.   It's a fight through two more Castles, but hiding in the Palisade Wall enclosure at the south of the map is the fourth and final Relic. ...and at this point I run out of pictures. Why? Because my Monks were taking so long to grab all the relics and drag them over to the Imam that I inadvertently managed to destroy the Spanish Rebels and Moorish Rebels first, winning the game that way. What's supposed to happen is as follows: Moorish Rebel: They are taking the relics to that mosque on the island! Attack them! Dropping off the first relic spawns in a bunch of ships belonging to the Moorish Rebels to try and stop your Transports/destroy the Monastery. But drop off all four relics and after the Imam gives his victory declaration, you win. The Imam: Now that you have brought me these relics, the people of Toledo will listen to me and I should be able to end the rebellion. Thank you for this noble act, my Cid. Mission 2 Ending Text "Once again, the Cid emerged victorious, and delivered the city to King Alfonso. Moor and Christian alike shouted his name from the city walls, and called him El Cid Campeador - my lord, the conqueror. After nearly 400 years of Moorish rule, the city of Toledo was ruled by a Christian king. But still Alfonso was not satisfied! He accused the Cid of seeking personal glory at the expense of the crown. When he heard the peasants shouting the name of the Cid instead of Alfonso's own name, he became even more angered. I knew then that our contented lives in Castile were about to end." I wasn't quite expecting to win a scenario by satisfying the normal victory conditions rather than the scenario victory conditions, but I suppose it had to happen sooner or later. If there was a significant difference in what was left, I might have gone back and replayed the mission, but all that you really missed out on was the final picture of me dragging the relics back to the Imam, so I'm content to call this one. Extra Slides Mission 2 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 2 - End Slide 1 Mission 2 - End Slide 2
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May 9, 2023 06:13
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