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Lola literally becomes a lord of the Sith. It may not have solved all of her problems but it solved the problem she bad at that moment. She's concerned about other challenges down the line, not with having become a Sith master in part because she still doesn't realize that. As someone who got out of dodge and left people behind, I'm more sympathetic to Daal. She would have preferred not to leave her friends behind but the first rule of drowning is to save yourself. 3 drowning people is better than 4 drowning people. Now that's not something a true Jedi would do but I don't see it as being painted in a bad light either. It's just survival. Sith as liberation is a very Sith pitch. Lastly, I don't see how anyone could look at someone using ultraviolence for revenge as being in-line with the Jedi ethos. It's another variation of the old playground argument that Luke should have sacrificed himself, embraced the dark side and killed the emperor. Even if Luke fell, the galaxy would be a better place. Which is a perfectly pragmatic position but it fails to understand how the macrocosm exists and is recapitulated by the microcosm. Again here you have Sith as liberation. As above, so below. Literally on the Death Star. Ciao Wren fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 16:35
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While we're talking about unusual takes on Star Wars, thought it worth to crosspost this from the good/bad comic art thread:Chinston Wurchill posted:Yeah I have some very vivid memories of this weird poo poo too.
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May 6, 2023 16:49
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The Eye Fighter was also...quite something
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May 6, 2023 17:45
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Ciao Wren posted:
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May 6, 2023 18:05
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Luke wasn't right to give in, that's the point. That's why his rejection is so important. Luke was (understandably) tempted by the dark side and he chose to reject it thereby remaining on the path. How is destroying a base and killing everyone inside it different from slicing Palpatine in half with his laser sword?
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May 6, 2023 18:24
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Ciao Wren posted:Luke wasn't right to give in, that's the point. That's why his rejection is so important. Luke was (understandably) tempted by the dark side and he chose to reject it thereby remaining on the path. How is destroying a base and killing everyone inside it different from slicing Palpatine in half with his laser sword? I'm not sure how to answer your question, because it seems self-evident to me destroying (just before being killed by the hostile occupying force yourself) an illegitimate military presence on your territory is something entirely different from murdering an unarmed individual, even if he happens to be the leader of said hostile force. Incidentally, if you're arguing that there is in fact no relevant difference and that both are wrong, it seems to me that implies the Rebels blowing up both Death Stars was wrong as well. Do you agree with that? If not, why were they right to do so?
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May 6, 2023 18:41
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Well that's like the whole thing with the Jedi. Their reasons and philosophy for doing things matter more than the results of their actions, because of their connection to the Force. They become corrupted as their anger and hate feeds on itself, and the Jedi philosophy of oneness with the universe twists into an egoism where only they matter. So whether you lightsaber some Imperials out of a need for revenge as opposed to other reasons actually does matter. The first Death Star was clearly a matter of Luke protecting himself. He didn't go there out of hate for the Empire or because he wanted to kill Vader. The strike against the second Death Star was clearly preemptive in comparison, but Luke wasn't there to kill the Emperor or Vader then either. It kinda feels like Jedi are very in the moment though. Like they don't look at the big picture really, they're very about what's happening right now. Quigon just having fun on Slave Planet, and Luke surrendering to protect his friends (on their mission to blow up a planet-sized space station.) TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 18:59
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Watched the first three episodes of the new Visions last night, they were really good. Sith was gorgeous, though I do agree that some of the shots where you could see the faces of characters without any of the 2D brushwork were... bad. There are just a couple shots where it's like you're watching Reboot all of a sudden, it's so weird. The little droid was super cute, I loved the little super laser it busted out to decapitate that one guy. It's nice to have one of these that doesn't just fall into the classic "light good, dark bad" thing, honestly. There was some fun ambiguity around that in RotJ and then never again, except in EU stuff. If not explicitly suggesting that the dark side is good, then at least challenging the notion that the pure asceticism of Jedi philosophy is the only good way to live your life as a force user. Screecher's Reach was my favorite, I think. The twist was really great, I love how it played out. This is one I'd love to see turned into a full series or a feature-length movie, the character designs were excellent, especially the evil sith lady at the end, and her ship. It was kinda funny that these kids were living in a dickensian work house, but could still just sneak out and steal a bunch of speeders. In the Stars felt a little rote, but I loved the animation. I loved how they used an AT-ST as like the symbol of overwhelming Imperial violence. It feels both like a subversion of their role in RotJ, and also perfectly in line with it as a tool for suppressing native revolt. Like yeah, if you think about it, a tank walking around on chicken legs would be hard to deal with if you didn't have a laser sword or a bunch of forest traps.
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May 6, 2023 19:26
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Begemot posted:In the Stars felt a little rote, but I loved the animation. I loved how they used an AT-ST as like the symbol of overwhelming Imperial violence. It feels both like a subversion of their role in RotJ, and also perfectly in line with it as a tool for suppressing native revolt. Like yeah, if you think about it, a tank walking around on chicken legs would be hard to deal with if you didn't have a laser sword or a bunch of forest traps. Mando did that too. An AT-ST was treated like an unchallengeable killing machine instead of a flimsy support vehicle. Even Andor treated a TIE as terrifying instead of a suicide machine for the pilot. Which is weirdly consistent with reality. In a military context, a light armored vehicle with a machine gun is a semi disposable tin can. But to civilians or lightly armed irregulars, it is an unstoppable hellbeast that will destroy everything you've ever loved, by itself. You just rarely ever see military vehicles treated that way.
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May 6, 2023 20:58
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Feelin' a little worried that filming on Andor S2 is going full speed ahead despite the writer's strike.
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May 6, 2023 22:16
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Alchenar posted:Feelin' a little worried that filming on Andor S2 is going full speed ahead despite the writer's strike. Why? They had the whole thing written before they started shooting.
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May 6, 2023 22:17
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Timby posted:Why? They had the whole thing written before they started shooting.
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May 6, 2023 22:21
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LividLiquid posted:No rewrites means if something doesn't work, you're stuck with it. Oh, I'm well aware (that's what hamstrung the 2009 Star Trek movie), but Andor's going to be filming through at least the end of the year and doesn't drop until August of next year. I can't imagine the strike will still be going on in January 2024, when they'll have plenty of time for re-shoots and pickups.
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May 6, 2023 22:27
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Ah. Thank you.
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May 6, 2023 22:40
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Alchenar posted:Feelin' a little worried that filming on Andor S2 is going full speed ahead despite the writer's strike. Tony Gilroy has been saying that the show is written in a production-proof manner, they haven't needed later/on-set rewrites, so it might be the same for season 2.
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May 6, 2023 22:43
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Timby posted:Why? They had the whole thing written before they started shooting.
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May 7, 2023 02:42
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Andor has also been filming for months and they've already got like half the episodes in the can Reshoots can happen later on if required While it does suck they might be breaking a strike in a way, it is a primarily UK production, just American funded.
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May 7, 2023 06:07
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We've had some good Star Wars content lately, but I still feel like I should have zero expectations for anything new coming out. Lucas Films does not care about quality, the good stuff comes out through sheer luck, and probably just the right people being passionate about doing an actual good job.
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May 7, 2023 08:49
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drunkill posted:Andor has also been filming for months and they've already got like half the episodes in the can Like blackface in Star Trek, Star Wars productions not giving a poo poo about unions is a time honored tradition.
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May 7, 2023 10:30
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mweber posted:Like blackface in Star Trek, Star Wars productions not giving a poo poo about unions is a time honored tradition. This is true; Gary Oldman was the original voice of General Grievous, but he backed out because Revenge of the Sith wasn't a SAG-AFTRA production.
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May 7, 2023 13:07
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Screecher's Reach kicked rear end. I love the idea that a mad, violent Sith hiding in a cave gets perceived as a ghost. Moreover, the fact that this was all some Sith Master's attempt at finding a new apprentice was excellent. Recruiting the desperate through a test of will and offering them an escape from their situation honestly makes a lot of sense and believably fleshes out how and why some go down that path in this universe, especially since the Jedi have become practically mythological in the current age. She tells her friends "don't look back" but at the very last second she looks back. Id watch an entire movie about this character's rise to power as a Dark Jedi and her inevitable turn to the light in the end. Also really enjoyed Spy Dancer, and Bandits of Golak had some really interesting interpretations of common Star Wars visual designs that I thought were really well done. I Am Your Mother was delightful as well.
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May 7, 2023 15:32
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Senrab posted:She tells her friends "don't look back" but at the very last second she looks back. Id watch an entire movie about this character's rise to power as a Dark Jedi and her inevitable turn to the light in the end. I may have to rewatch it, but wasn’t she repeating her friend’s advice back to him from when they were at the campfire? To follow her destiny and take her chance to escape and never look back. Then when she’s implied to look back at the last second (we don’t actually see her turning all the way around), it’s hinted at that she’s having uncertainty about the horrible decision she’s just made. Speaking of, I like how they didn’t try and spoon feed it to us by showing her looking back. Something similar was in Spy Dancer, where we never saw the officer remove his eyepatch to BIG REVEAL he has a yellow eye like his mom, or turn around to BIG REVEAL his (Zabrak?) horns. The most we saw was faint spots on his forehead in his reflection where his horns were apparently sawn off. We didn’t need the twist explained to us because we already got it. Or maybe it leaves enough ambiguity that the dancer mom was wrong and it was just some dude and not her lost son. Either way, it doesn’t matter because it’s a one-off story and we’ll never know for sure. I thought that was pretty mature storytelling.
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May 7, 2023 20:17
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In Spy Dancer, as soon as I realised all the characters had one blue and one yellow eye and that the officer was wearing an eyepatch, it was immediately clear
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May 7, 2023 20:59
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Hazo posted:
Regarding the Spy Dancer thing, it hits you at the end with a dose of horror when the son removes his cap and it is revealed that his horns have actually been cut off and there's just a pair of scars left. The show kind of sets you up to expect that he removes the eye patch and reveal his eyes match his mother's, but no, the officer who stole him as a baby actually just gouged his left eye out along with cutting off his horns in an attempt to erase his heritage.
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May 7, 2023 22:13
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Hazo posted:I may have to rewatch it, but wasn’t she repeating her friend’s advice back to him from when they were at the campfire? To follow her destiny and take her chance to escape and never look back. Then when she’s implied to look back at the last second (we don’t actually see her turning all the way around), it’s hinted at that she’s having uncertainty about the horrible decision she’s just made. You might be right, I think I missed that earlier statement.
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May 7, 2023 22:16
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Dark Head was to me by far my least favorite. My 10 year old daughter said it was just nonstop anime screaming.
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May 8, 2023 03:37
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Smart kid.
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May 8, 2023 06:03
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Japanese influence? In my Star Wars? Dark Head was cool, I'm pleased with the breadth of styles/stories in Visions S2. Something for everyone.
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May 8, 2023 06:40
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Japanese influence? In my Star Wars? I don’t like anime, but anime and Sith Lords are chocolate and peanut butter.
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May 8, 2023 07:41
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Marsupial Ape posted:I don’t like anime, but anime and Sith Lords are chocolate and peanut butter. If you're gonna go with edgy swordsmen with super powers, may as well draw from the deepest well around.
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May 8, 2023 07:50
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Oh not gonna disagree in that it nailed what it was going for, it absolutely did. I really enjoyed the season as a whole, but because season 1 was all kinds of anime styles I enjoyed the more different styles of season 2 this time.
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May 8, 2023 13:33
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So I saw a gif and I guess I was wrong about them not showing us Daal's face when she turns around at the end, and we see her crying as she realizes she massively hosed up. I stick by what I said about Spy Dancer though. Also it's kinda odd/interesting how so many of the Visions characters have names starting with or revolving around short-A sounds. Daal, Rani, Ani, Aau, Am, Asu, Ara, Abbat, Aatu, probably more.
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May 8, 2023 16:14
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I caught up on the other 5 stories and here are my thoughts: The Bandits of Golak - I thought the way the 2 main characters looked was off putting, very uncanny valley. However, everything else in the episode looked nice and I really liked the old jedi lady and the inquisitor. The Indian influence was cool to see in star wars. Overall not my favorite of the shorts. In The Stars - I really liked stop motion being over represented in this batch of visions, especially as this one and I think Aau's Song were not true stop motion but used real models as reference and were animated in the style. They looked great. The story in this was OK. Aau's Song - Loved this one. The look of everything and the main characters was delightful and the Jedi design was suuuuuuuuuuper loving sick. Really nice story too. One of my top 3 I think? The Pit - This is a weird one. Definitely one of the darker episodes and shows the Empire's callously and cruelty really well but eh just wasn't that exciting as a star wars short? The Spy Dancer - Awesome!! The animation and the story were both spectacular. Loved the choreography of the aerial ribbon acrobatic stuff. Thinking now to all 9, I think my top 9 are: 1. Screecher's Reach 2. The Spy Dancer 3. Aau's Song 4. I Am Your Mother 5. Journey to the Dark Head 6. Sith 7. In The Stars 8. Bandits of Golak 9. The Pit Jerkface fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 17:11
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The Jedi in Aau’s Song was maybe my favorite character design in the series.
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May 8, 2023 19:24
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I'm just not digging visions again and I was excited that there was more varied animation styles than just anime
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May 8, 2023 19:34
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Nash posted:The Jedi in Aau’s Song was maybe my favorite character design in the series. Aau’s Song was pretty dope. I am not the target audience for felt stuffed-animal people, but I immediately accepted the design choice. I’d watch that poo poo all day.
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May 8, 2023 20:37
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Only halfway through - lost interest in Journey to the Dark Head, just don't care - but holy gently caress, I was ready to poo poo all over Screecher's Reach after 20 seconds only to love it completely from the moment they broke out. Give me a film/show/whatever about Daal and her new life. lmao that I recognised Kate Dickie's stylised stop motion self before she even uttered a word in In The Stars. Also, it's interesting how those gangly K series droid mofos have so quickly become entrenched as a terrifying symbol of the Empire.
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May 8, 2023 22:59
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Sentinel Red posted:Also, it's interesting how those gangly K series droid mofos have so quickly become entrenched as a terrifying symbol of the Empire. Especially since the most prominent example of them was a heroic character. I don't know if KX-series droids figure prominently in other visual media as well, but it feels Jedi: Fallen Order did a lot to establish them as a common part of the imperial security machine.
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May 8, 2023 23:08
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I'm surprised that Rebels never used them, considering they introduced the Death Troopers and the Forest Whitaker version of Saw Gerrera to start tying things into Rogue One.
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May 8, 2023 23:13
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Slashrat posted:Especially since the most prominent example of them was a heroic character. I don't know if KX-series droids figure prominently in other visual media as well, but it feels Jedi: Fallen Order did a lot to establish them as a common part of the imperial security machine. Andor did a great job of bringing them back in the general public eye as what they would stand for, for average citizens. Just pure oppression.
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May 8, 2023 23:22
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