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Yawgmoft posted:Consequences for the rich is something China and Singapore do far better than most places in the West. They also execute poor people on trumped up charges, like Singapore did last month with the dude they claimed was involved with smuggling weed. Remember being rich in those countries isn't enough to be part of the ruling class - you have to be a high ranking member of the single party political machine. They also don't have any semblance of freedom of speech or free press, so I'm not sure I'd make that trade.
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May 8, 2023 16:39
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Yawgmoft posted:Consequences for the rich is something China and Singapore do far better than most places in the West. Easy to do when you're willing to just kill whoever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 8, 2023 16:46
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cat botherer posted:Oh goddamnit Why are chuds starting to push child labor?
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May 8, 2023 16:49
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They always have been, just not this overtly or successfully.
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May 8, 2023 16:51
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor?
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May 8, 2023 16:52
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? Because if I pay .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 on payroll its communism.
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May 8, 2023 16:52
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? An increasing number of state legislatures are in control of trump-coattails people who are much more willing to take up and pass generic template bills offered up to them by business orgs. The child labor laws getting passed in various places are one instance of this.
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May 8, 2023 16:58
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cat botherer posted:Oh goddamnit Apparently the surge in children illegally working in dozens of industries across the United States is tied in with a surge in child trafficking going on through the Southern border. https://www.piratewires.com/p/child-labor-laws-immigration Some choice parts, the article itself provides links to a bunch of other newspapers that corroborate some of its claims: quote:A recent exposé by Hannah Dreir in the New York Times revealed what Drier called a “new economy of exploitation.” This “new economy of exploitation” does not speak to the leniency of child labor laws, multiple violations of which were recorded by the Times, but rather an immigration policy that is tantamount to state-sanctioned human trafficking. Here’s how it works: EDIT: I'll note that I don't necessarily agree the conclusions here, but this article was the first place I had read about all this illegal child labor going on. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 17:11 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 17:00
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? Because it's still just beyond the pale to openly demand the return of slavery.
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May 8, 2023 17:15
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Because it's still just beyond the pale to openly demand the return of slavery. I mean did it go anywhere with the U.S. prison system?
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May 8, 2023 17:20
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Because it's still just beyond the pale to openly demand the return of slavery. Slavery was never truly abolished, they just tweaked it enough that they could call it something different. It's evolved just enough to keep itself around.
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May 8, 2023 17:23
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DarkCrawler posted:I mean did it go anywhere with the U.S. prison system? Yeah, small business owners can no longer have their own slaves
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May 8, 2023 17:25
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Sax Mortar posted:Yeah, small business owners can no longer have their own slaves Correct, they just have to rent them from the state. Glad that's solved
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May 8, 2023 17:26
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the_steve posted:Slavery was never truly abolished, they just tweaked it enough that they could call it something different. That's why I qualified with "openly." Still have to use the prison system and other dodges, how inconvenient.
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May 8, 2023 17:31
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the_steve posted:Slavery was never truly abolished, they just tweaked it enough that they could call it something different. Yeah I live close to some big plantations that have dorms in the fields that the pickers live in (no A/C of course). It's impossible to see this as anything but good old fashioned slavery. The pickers wake up, work day and night in the field, and then return to their dorms. The fact that they are given money to buy food to keep them alive is only the thinnest of abstractions that keeps this from being legally slavery.
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May 8, 2023 17:46
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Fart Amplifier posted:Easy to do when you're willing to just kill whoever. The United States' legal, justice and extrajudicial system, famous for not being willing to just kill whoever (unless you are poor or a member of a minority group). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 8, 2023 17:56
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You can still read the slave codes (and the post reconstruction black codes), "people had to work for free" might be a tiny bit of an understatement.
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May 8, 2023 18:14
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? I mean capitalists love it because it's additional labor in an existing household, so it increases productivity while requiring no additional wages because if you have three people working in a household, they combine their income. They don't need more money for housing, so if anything it reduces pressure on wages. Hell you'd think capitalists would love polyamory as a result of that thinking. As for chuds I have no idea. I imagine it's just personal responsibility, boostraps poo poo. Most of them consider school a waste of time, so the idea of getting a 'real job' and saving money to buy your first car or whatever is downright romantic.
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May 8, 2023 18:15
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Mendrian posted:I mean capitalists love it because it's additional labor in an existing household, so it increases productivity while requiring no additional wages because if you have three people working in a household, they combine their income. They don't need more money for housing, so if anything it reduces pressure on wages. Hell you'd think capitalists would love polyamory as a result of that thinking. Well you can't have TOO much money coming into the household, or else people might start getting ideas above their station. There's a fine balance they want where we can scrape by and maybe get ourselves a little treat every once in awhile without being able to meaningfully save up enough to open other options, otherwise you lose the labor class that makes everything functional.
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May 8, 2023 18:19
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor?  Capital will do whatever it is allowed to get away with in the pursuit of maximizing profit. Kids, especially undocumented migrant kids, are easier to exploit than adults. And this adds more people to the labor pool, which reduces the leverage that other workers have and drives down their wages. Its basically a win win for amoral shitheads.
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May 8, 2023 18:22
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? Child labor laws are just job killing regulations.
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May 8, 2023 18:26
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Fister Roboto posted:
That part is fairly obvious. I'd be interested to know why it's happening now in particular.
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May 8, 2023 18:33
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? Because it's not their children. Their children deserve the chance to be kids and play and go to school and be rocket surgeons and hedge managers. Other people's children (especially if those other people don't pass the paper bag test) are drags on society, sucking up resources from The Right Kind of Kids. Therefore, they should make themselves useful, as they do not have the capacity to be anything other than unskilled labor anyway.
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May 8, 2023 18:35
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There've also been sustained attacks on schools with claims of ~woke moralism~ and ~critical race theory~. schools are ~indoctrinating our children~. I'm sure whatever the factors actually are, there are many of them, and not any one particular thing. Might just as well be the big bucks realizing that, with so many complete loving nutjobs getting elected, the time is ripe to shove though terrible legislation that nobody will bother to actually read.
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May 8, 2023 18:39
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Ither posted:Why are chuds starting to push child labor? Conservatives view any resource not being consumed by capital as a waste, so poor kids that would be wasting taxpayers dollars in public school that could be better spent on private school grift can find a better use as easily exploited labor. As conservatives complete their goal of eradicating public education and all education dollars are directed to corporations, they will suddenly want all kids in school.
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May 8, 2023 18:41
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Koos Group posted:That part is fairly obvious. I'd be interested to know why it's happening now in particular. Some hosed up combination of 1) no one wants to work anymore, 2) we've got a great new source of cheap labor from all these trafficked kids, and 3) now that they've gotten caught and exposed exploiting children, the next step is to legalize it.
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May 8, 2023 18:54
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The rate of profit has a tendency to fall and so more and more desperate measures are taken such as finding excuses to pay less than minimum wage. Plus the economy lost thousands of workers to death and is continuing to lose them to disability
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May 8, 2023 19:00
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Koos Group posted:That part is fairly obvious. I'd be interested to know why it's happening now in particular. I posted this article earlier that seems to go into the why, namely that the current government agencies designed to prevent undocumented minors from being exploited in this very manner are incredibly broken, and smugglers/sponsors are taking advantage of that fact. Most posters in this thread seem to be focusing solely on the corporations, who rightfully should be demonized for using children for dangerous work, but are ignoring why the supply of these undocumented children exist in the first place, and why they're so easy to slip into the system to exploit. https://www.piratewires.com/p/child-labor-laws-immigration The Article posted:A recent exposé by Hannah Dreir in the New York Times revealed what Drier called a “new economy of exploitation.” This “new economy of exploitation” does not speak to the leniency of child labor laws, multiple violations of which were recorded by the Times, but rather an immigration policy that is tantamount to state-sanctioned human trafficking. Here’s how it works: If the HHS can't track a huge amount of these kids coming into the US, exploitation is going to happen. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 19:09
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Working in slaughterhouses or sanitizing food factories REALLY REALLY SUCKS. Its gross as hell, alternatively really hot or really cold, and wet, and you're under terrible time pressure.
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May 8, 2023 19:10
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From reading one of those articles a while back, its pretty clear there's some outright bribery and corruption going on in the relevant sections of HHS. People who asked too many questions got fired.
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May 8, 2023 19:15
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I AM GRANDO posted:An increasing number of state legislatures are in control of trump-coattails people who are much more willing to take up and pass generic template bills offered up to them by business orgs. The child labor laws getting passed in various places are one instance of this. It's this. These idiots have no idea what they're doing, even less than your normal GOP elected official, and they're incredibly lazy. You can just slide a bill in front of them.
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May 8, 2023 19:21
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That and many of the Trump coattails people are small business tyrants in their own right.
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May 8, 2023 19:33
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Koos Group posted:That part is fairly obvious. I'd be interested to know why it's happening now in particular. What Grando said, but also I would guess that this isn't just happening now, but rather that it only recently got bad enough for people to start noticing.
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May 8, 2023 19:33
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PharmerBoy posted:While I agree with the general sentiment of "The Holmes article is a puff piece, entirely unnecessary, and better off unwritten and unpublished," the way your statement is worded comes across as we shouldn't remember the prison population/to-be-imprisoned population are human. I think this would be a valid criticism if the NYT were publishing puff pieces about prisoners who have less than a million dollars in personal assets. The NYT isn't humanizing "the prison population/to-be-imprisoned population" generally here, they're humanizing one very specific, very wealthy white lady who almost certainly paid a lot of money to a PR firm for the privilege.
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May 8, 2023 19:51
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Koos Group posted:That part is fairly obvious. I'd be interested to know why it's happening now in particular. Shortage of labor pushed rich people to want to increase the labor pool, they called up one of the right wing groups that drafts boilerplate legislation that all the republicans distribute (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/03/anti-trans-transgender-health-care-ban-legislation-bill-minors-children-lgbtq/ or Chris Rufo for example) and suddenly you see a wave of states like Arkansas or Idaho passing these bills. That's my theory at least.
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May 8, 2023 19:52
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:From reading one of those articles a while back, its pretty clear there's some outright bribery and corruption going on in the relevant sections of HHS. People who asked too many questions got fired. This one? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/us/politics/migrant-child-labor-biden.html quote:Ms. Brandmiller’s job was to help vet sponsors, and she had been trained to look for possible trafficking. In her first week, two cases jumped out: One man told her he was sponsoring three boys to employ them at his construction company. Another, who lived in Florida, was trying to sponsor two children who would have to work off the cost of bringing them north. I remember from reading the article, it sounded like there was massive systemic oversight where no agency felt that they were the one responsible for tracking kids after they'd been placed with a sponsor. Like, here: quote:H.H.S. officials said the department vetted sponsors sufficiently but could not control what happened to children after they were released. Monitoring workplaces, they said, was the job of the Department of Labor. So basically, we're sending kids to shady "sponsors" who trap them into debt slavery and then no one ever looks into it again. It's not even a failure of the system; it's designed this way. No one has been assigned this job.
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May 8, 2023 19:59
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koolkal posted:Shortage of labor pushed rich people to want to increase the labor pool, they called up one of the right wing groups that drafts boilerplate legislation that all the republicans distribute (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/03/anti-trans-transgender-health-care-ban-legislation-bill-minors-children-lgbtq/ or Chris Rufo for example) and suddenly you see a wave of states like Arkansas or Idaho passing these bills. It's pretty much this. The "undocumented kids are being sent with non-relatives who claim to sponsor them and send them to work" situation is a separate issue from the recent trend of GOP states reducing child labor requirements. They are basically just model laws being pushed in a few states to maybe help out some businesses (especially in the food service industry and retail) because the labor shortage has made it so basic "minimum wage jobs" like "shelf stocker at small clothing store" are jobs nobody wants to do and especially won't do for minimum wage anymore. But, 15-year olds don't have the same kind of sensitivity to wages. The bills don't even really do that much because child labor law is still governed at the federal level, so you can just move the state requirements closer to the federal minimum. The major change in the child labor law bill that recently passed in Arkansas was that 14 and 15-year olds didn't have to get a work permit. They could always work before, but had to apply for a permit. I don't imagine that there will be a dramatic increase in the number of 15-year olds working because of that bill. If you are working at that age, then your parents are definitely on board and the extra step of applying for the permit probably wasn't much of an impediment.
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May 8, 2023 20:01
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If you are working at that age, then your parents are definitely on board and the extra step of applying for the permit probably wasn't much of an impediment. Assuming you have parents and knowledge of permitting requirements That said most people employing under the table kid labor probably won't be impacted by the new law yeah; they were under the table anyway. The issue would be that state level enforcement of such things is often more prevalent than federal enforcement because the feds are all the way in Washington and who's told them what's happening in Arkansas or wherever? But that assumes state level enforcement is even happening Jaxyon posted:It's this. They also have no shame or fear of not getting re-elected. The way you stay elected as a Republican these days is by never being out-crazied from the right, not by "doing a good job" or 'helping constituents" or anything else like that. So they can pass all the poo poo they want then just make sure there's a news story about MEXICO CARAVAN come election time and never fear re-election. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 8, 2023 |
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May 8, 2023 20:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Assuming you have parents and knowledge of permitting requirements Yeah, but the functional change of "don't have to apply for permit" from "had to apply for permit" is likely to be pretty minimal for 99.9% of 14-year olds who were going to be formally employed. There's already a very small percent of the total 14-year old population that is formally employed and if your parents really want you to get a job, then the need to apply for a permit likely wasn't the one thing standing in their way. People who are illegally hiring kids under the table aren't really going to change anything or somehow start hiring them even more illegally in response to people hiring legally not needing to request a permit anymore. The push for the change in these laws seems to be 100% driven by conservative groups pushing model legislation to state lawmakers and generic "trying to show businesses you are doing something to help them with labor" posturing from Republican lawmakers.
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May 8, 2023 20:15
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah, but the functional change of "don't have to apply for permit" from "had to apply for permit" is likely to be pretty minimal for 99.9% of 14-year olds who were going to be formally employed. . . . . Yeah, it's signaling, not substance. That said I think part of the goal here is just to explicitly signal "we are willing to pass horrible poo poo into law."
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May 8, 2023 20:29
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