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Nelson Mandingo posted:This is the trial that just keeps on giving. Beautiful. IANAL, but I think that's confirmation bias speaking; you only hear about the cases that blow up in their faces, and Alex Jones in particular is the most egregious example because he the worst client imaginable. You tend to not hear about the delays that actually serve their purpose; frustrating a plaintiff who has a solid case but cannot afford to keep chasing it indefinitely and forcing them to go for a smaller settlement. Like the other big example is probably one Donald Trump, who is currently entangled in several civil cases and criminal investigations that look like they won't pan out in his favor, but the guy has been doing criminal poo poo for decades with no real consequences up until now. I remember him being pressed on that in the past and bragging that "there was never a verdict; we settled on it out of court with no admission of guilt." That's the goal, and I assume there's a lot of rich assholes who have done the same and are also savvy enough to not brag about it in public.
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May 6, 2023 14:14
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:IANAL, but I think that's confirmation bias speaking; you only hear about the cases that blow up in their faces, and Alex Jones in particular is the most egregious example because he the worst client imaginable. You tend to not hear about the delays that actually serve their purpose; frustrating a plaintiff who has a solid case but cannot afford to keep chasing it indefinitely and forcing them to go for a smaller settlement. This seems like a massive weakness in the justice system, glaringly so. Like, literally, just pay-to-win as long as your opponent doesn't have the cash to keep going, regardless of the merits of their case. Do judges not see that this is what is happening, or do they just not give a poo poo?
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May 9, 2023 01:57
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Or there’s little judges can do if none of that is illegal.
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May 9, 2023 02:19
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The Bible posted:This seems like a massive weakness in the justice system, glaringly so. Well there's the impetus for justice reform right there, just need to get some game devs into congress and we'll fix that poo poo for sure. 
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May 9, 2023 02:35
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https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/global Our legal system only looks good when you compare it to authoritarian shitholes. Among our economic and social peers, we're at best middling to underperforming. We're the kid struggling to get Cs. https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/global/2022/United%20States/ Certainly, there's nothing to be proud of in our legal system. We excel at nothing. We're not fast. We're not fair. We're not efficient. We're not accurate. "angry at this bullshit" is the correct attitude to take with the US legal system. Special shoutout to Delaware for single handedly making the US the epicenter of money laundering and corporate shell games. https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691180007/whats-the-matter-with-delaware
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May 9, 2023 02:42
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The Bible posted:This seems like a massive weakness in the justice system, glaringly so. The very wealthy write the laws or buy off the people who do. Those with power and connections know the judges as well, and influence who gets to be on the bench. It's very, very much a feature and not a bug.
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May 9, 2023 02:45
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Dirk the Average posted:The very wealthy write the laws or buy off the people who do. Those with power and connections know the judges as well, and influence who gets to be on the bench. It's very, very much a feature and not a bug. You mean the globalists  they're out there controlling our lives.
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May 9, 2023 02:54
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Borscht posted:You mean the globalists No, they mean the ruling class. If you're being serious about conflating the basic dynamics of capitalist society with right wing conspiracism then you're being dumb as hell
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May 9, 2023 14:48
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Barry Foster posted:No, they mean the ruling class. If you're being serious about conflating the basic dynamics of capitalist society with right wing conspiracism then you're being dumb as hell 
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May 9, 2023 14:49
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Barry Foster posted:No, they mean the ruling class. If you're being serious about conflating the basic dynamics of capitalist society with right wing conspiracism then you're being dumb as hell Lol
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May 9, 2023 15:18
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Barry Foster posted:No, they mean the ruling class. If you're being serious about conflating the basic dynamics of capitalist society with right wing conspiracism then you're being dumb as hell 
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May 9, 2023 15:18
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The Bible posted:This seems like a massive weakness in the justice system, glaringly so. if it were that simple, Alex Jones the multi-millionaire wouldn't have lost this case
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May 9, 2023 15:40
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Main Paineframe posted:if it were that simple, Alex Jones the multi-millionaire wouldn't have lost this case There's always one guy who can't win with godmode on
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May 9, 2023 15:55
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Main Paineframe posted:if it were that simple, Alex Jones the multi-millionaire wouldn't have lost this case Alex Jones had to spend *years* making GBS threads on people like the judge personally and directly, while completely refusing to participate in the process at all and being a belligerent rear end in a top hat to everyone and anyone involved then lying to the world about all of it to reach this point. Even dumb millionaires can listen to a lawyer, and let their money win the case for them via the exact route being discussed by the person you're responding to. Jones is a uniquely broke-brained individual to manage the accomplishment of having a default judgement against him. Default judgements are rare and he had to work to win that prize. His actions in no way invalidate the existence of a two-tiered justice system. They prove him to be such a colossal fuckwit and poo poo head that he did not take part in that system, they do not work to prove its nonexistence.
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May 9, 2023 16:28
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Main Paineframe posted:if it were that simple, Alex Jones the multi-millionaire wouldn't have lost this case In this scenario the opponent did have the "cash to keep going" because the lawyers fronted the legal costs, right? If the plaintiffs had to pay cash out of pocket this case probably would never have gone anywhere or would have been settled cheaply a long time ago.
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May 9, 2023 16:41
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Outrail posted:Lol Alright, mea culpa I've been dealing with way too many people IRL recently who would absolutely make that kind of comparison unironically
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May 9, 2023 16:52
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bird food bathtub posted:Alex Jones had to spend *years* making GBS threads on people like the judge personally and directly, while completely refusing to participate in the process at all and being a belligerent rear end in a top hat to everyone and anyone involved then lying to the world about all of it to reach this point. Even dumb millionaires can listen to a lawyer, and let their money win the case for them via the exact route being discussed by the person you're responding to. Jones is a uniquely broke-brained individual to manage the accomplishment of having a default judgement against him. Default judgements are rare and he had to work to win that prize. This. The whole point is that the system needs a veneer of respectability and fair play. There are rules in place, it's just that the rules are written in a specific way and arbitrarily enforced to give the wealthy and powerful an overwhelming advantage.
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May 9, 2023 16:52
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bird with big dick posted:In this scenario the opponent did have the "cash to keep going" because the lawyers fronted the legal costs, right? If the plaintiffs had to pay cash out of pocket this case probably would never have gone anywhere or would have been settled cheaply a long time ago. I don't know how they initially got the money, but Bankston did say that while they do take lawyers' fees upon judgment, they at least ask for expenses up front. What didn't help Alex is that they were able to levy massive sanctions that more than paid for their up-front costs because Alex refused to play ball.
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May 9, 2023 17:06
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Main Paineframe posted:if it were that simple, Alex Jones the multi-millionaire wouldn't have lost this case He could have, he just insisted on doing the dumbest thing possible at every turn for some reason.
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May 10, 2023 01:50
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Yeah Alex Jones could have got out of this situation easily. Hell he still keeps getting chances despite seemingly throwing on purpose. I think this whole farce kind of shows just how bad a rich dude can gently caress up and still keep going
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May 10, 2023 01:54
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The only justice we will ever see in regards to Jones is that despite having basically limitless wealth and no legal consequences (he will weasel out of paying a goddamn dime to any of these families), he has still managed to gently caress up his life to the point that he is a hate-filled husk of a man, probably on the verge of a heart attack/stroke, and is not capable of experiencing any positive emotion. He was dealt a Royal Flush in life and still just ended up as a misery golem.
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May 10, 2023 01:59
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The Bible posted:The only justice we will ever see in regards to Jones is that despite having basically limitless wealth and no legal consequences (he will weasel out of paying a goddamn dime to any of these families), he has still managed to gently caress up his life to the point that he is a hate-filled husk of a man, probably on the verge of a heart attack/stroke, and is not capable of experiencing any positive emotion. He was dealt a Royal Flush in life and still just ended up as a misery golem. he can't "weasel out of paying a dime" the bankruptcy court has already seized control over FSS and frozen most of his assets after his bankruptcy case is over, the court isn't giving that poo poo back. most of it's getting liquidated and going straight to his creditors (in this case, the families)
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May 10, 2023 02:27
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Main Paineframe posted:he can't "weasel out of paying a dime" "If that is true why do I keep saying it isn't!"
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May 10, 2023 02:29
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Main Paineframe posted:he can't "weasel out of paying a dime" Well, alright, that's good news. So when does he have to pay?
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May 10, 2023 02:31
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Not this exact second so that means never
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May 10, 2023 02:33
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Twibbit posted:Not this exact second so that means never I'm actually asking, though. Is there a set date on when payment is due or is it just "when this is all over"?
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May 10, 2023 02:36
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You can be legitimately frustrated that the process will take years and probably still leave Jones at a level of wealthy comfort that most of us could only aspire to, but the fortune is going in the end and the legal mechanisms to ensure it are already in place.
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May 10, 2023 02:39
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Voyager I posted:You can be legitimately frustrated that the process will take years and probably still leave Jones at a level of wealthy comfort that most of us could only aspire to, but the fortune is going in the end and the legal mechanisms to ensure it are already in place. I guess I just don't have much faith in the justice system, especially as it applies to the rich and influential. I do sincerely hope you're right, though.
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May 10, 2023 02:45
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The Bible posted:I guess I just don't have much faith in the justice system, especially as it applies to the rich and influential. I do sincerely hope you're right, though. Bankruptcy courts are not in the business of dispensing justice. In this case, and perhaps only this case, that is a good thing.
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May 10, 2023 02:53
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The Bible posted:he will weasel out of paying a goddamn dime to any of these families I'm not a lawyer, please explain the process by which he will accomplish this
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May 10, 2023 03:00
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The Bible posted:Well, alright, that's good news. So when does he have to pay? probably not this year the court and the families are working to trace his assets and uncover any money he's hiding, a process that's expected to take months more given the complexity of his finances and the fact that he's clearly hiding a lot of money in a lot of different places. they want to nail down as much of it as they can before they start divvying it up among the people he owes money to the judicial system is taking a long time, but it's not like they're sitting around and doing nothing
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May 10, 2023 03:04
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Main Paineframe posted:he can't "weasel out of paying a dime" To be fair, they're probably not going to be liquidizing that much of his assets. I can't imagine he has that much in assets that have much tangible value aside from his home (which can't be seized) and his studio/things related to the show (which they won't liquidize because they only way they can get money to the families he owes is by allowing him to keep going and taking the vast majority of what he brings in). On the one hand that means his show will continue and probably won't be very different. On the other hand, it also means he has a boss now, and it's a boss that doesn't care for him at all, and there's nothing he can legally do to stop that. He's legally bound to have to listen to a bookkeeper who will tell him what he can and cannot do.
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May 10, 2023 03:12
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tracecomplete posted:Bankruptcy courts are not in the business of dispensing justice. That's actually a pretty good point. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
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May 10, 2023 03:13
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The Bible posted:I'm actually asking, though. Is there a set date on when payment is due or is it just "when this is all over"? When the bankruptcy case finalizes. It's a legal process and it takes time, there's also forensic accounting to do, there's also the complication of how many different creditors he now has because of losing so many court cases.
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May 10, 2023 03:19
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pseudanonymous posted:When the bankruptcy case finalizes. It's a legal process and it takes time, there's also forensic accounting to do, there's also the complication of how many different creditors he now has because of losing so many court cases. That’s concerning because it means he can keep doing something he’s clearly excellent at—losing court cases—and potentially gum up the process indefinitely.
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May 10, 2023 03:25
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Pirate Radar posted:That’s concerning because it means he can keep doing something he’s clearly excellent at—losing court cases—and potentially gum up the process indefinitely. I considered pointing this out but didn't want to seem like I was digging in. Some pretty solid points have been made against what I said and I'm willing to wait and see what happens. But yeah, this is exactly what I feared. How will he weasel out of it? By stalling the court system indefinitely as rich people very often do. I think that's what started this discussion in the first place; just winning a case because you have more money than your opponent and can simply stall things until they can no longer afford to fight you. Might not apply here though, as the judgement has already been made. There's no way he lives much longer anyway. The victims can pick his estate apart once his heart explodes.
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May 10, 2023 03:29
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Pirate Radar posted:That’s concerning because it means he can keep doing something he’s clearly excellent at—losing court cases—and potentially gum up the process indefinitely. I could see it taking another 12-18 months, but the judges are giving a fair amount of leeway in part because they don't want to get overturned on appeal. Also in part because he's the clown shows version of money laundering. They've already frozen his assets and restricted his spending. Yes, I'd just as soon he was forced to live in a van down by the river, the process is ridiculously favorable to the rich. Nonetheless he's facing increasing consequences and eventually virtually all of his assets will be turned over, and his salary will be restricted to "living expenses". Honestly the process is giving him a lot of opportunities to commit fraud and perjury and wire-fraud and he's probably doing so, and giving him time to frantically try to hide his money while simultaneously ignoring what his accountants and lawyers say is somewhat analogous to a 0-11 soccer match somehow going into overtime, it's more time for him to score own goals. There may well be a criminal referral coming out of this whole thing too.
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May 10, 2023 03:31
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He might have to accelerate the rate at which he’s getting sued and losing though. If this goes on he’s going to be speedrunning the process of making false statements, going to court, calling the judge a demonic pedophile, slapping duct tape over his own mouth, etc
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May 10, 2023 03:33
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Baron von Eevl posted:he has a boss now, and it's a boss that doesn't care for him at all, and there's nothing he can legally do to stop that. He's legally bound to have to listen to a bookkeeper who will tell him what he can and cannot do.
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May 10, 2023 03:35
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What people are looking for is basically for the trustee to wear a body cam and livestream his whole day of showing up to the InfoWars office, telling Jones what he can’t do, walking around the place telling them to sell stuff, finding half-full handles of Tito’s in random places
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May 10, 2023 03:37
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