Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

HonorableTB posted:

Ukraine just did a POW deal to exchange the ex-head of Motor Sich for 1,000 Ukrainian prisoners of war. Boguslaev, the former head of the company, worked for the Russians and encouraged them to carry out missile attacks against their own company's locations. The Ukrainians feel getting 1,000 of their own is worth the trade

]

Wow, that's five medvedchuks

# ? May 12, 2023 20:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 28, 2024 06:46

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

HonorableTB posted:

Ukraine just did a POW deal to exchange the ex-head of Motor Sich for 1,000 Ukrainian prisoners of war. Boguslaev, the former head of the company, worked for the Russians and encouraged them to carry out missile attacks against their own company's locations. The Ukrainians feel getting 1,000 of their own is worth the trade

Did that actually go through? All I see is that Boguslaev asked to be included in prisoner swaps and Podolyak was like "yeah sure, we'll swap him for 1000 guys"

# ? May 12, 2023 20:09

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Russians "regrouping" to more advantageous positions, 2023 (colorized)

# ? May 12, 2023 20:15

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Flavahbeast posted:

Did that actually go through? All I see is that Boguslaev asked to be included in prisoner swaps and Podolyak was like "yeah sure, we'll swap him for 1000 guys"

Not sure if it's gone through or not but tenses are weird in Russian so I could have just hosed up the translation and thought it was "has gone through" instead of "can go through". Russian is the foreign language I know the best but it's still my third lol

# ? May 12, 2023 20:20

FEMA summer camp: Jan 22, 2006

Buzzman posted:

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1657066925002838016

Did the DoD ever mention specifically that they were sending these? Isn't this a pretty big deal?

Either way I hope they sent an assload of them.

# ? May 12, 2023 20:38

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

WarGonzo pants making GBS threads increasing in velocity and liquidity. I left the bolding intact as posted so you can see when he takes another hit of copium

Peggy posted:

There will be no second chance - the failure of the Ukrainian offensive will not leave the Kyiv regime a chance to continue the war

The counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is inevitable, no matter how hard the enemy media and speakers try to disguise it with statements about the unpreparedness of the ukrovermacht. Yes, the enemy has a whole bunch of problems, but he simply has no choice. Now or never, a delay of at least a couple of months will inevitably lead Ukraine to collapse.

The US presidential election is just around the corner, so Biden needs victories. Before the start of the primaries, the �Ukrainian issue� must be resolved, or at least the prospect of some positive outcome for the American public should appear. Without a successful offensive, this cannot be achieved.

The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are growing - the estimate of 315 thousand dead no longer seems too high. The enemy is forced to engage daily in trapping conscripts not from a good life. And the population of Ukraine every day less and less wants to die for Biden's rating. Given the pace of flight of the Ukrainian people abroad, it is more difficult to maintain the strength of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the current level every month.

In addition, the ukrovermacht lacks shells for 155 mm artillery - and there is simply no chance of improving the situation in the near future. The defense production of the collective West cannot yet cover even 50% of the daily consumption of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the available stocks have already been used up. Delaying preparations for an offensive will only lead to a waste of ammunition.

There are also problems with the supply of equipment: no one will present new �toys� to Kiev in the near future, and losses are growing. A couple of months - and there will simply be nothing to attack. Moreover, in the fall there will be an inevitable operational pause due to mudslides.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine simply will not have a second chance to attack. And Kyiv has no right to make a mistake either. We must rally and repel the enemy onslaught at any cost. When we grind their shock fist, the enemy will simply have nothing to fight on.

Also bonus cope from another voenkor:

lol posted:

It is to be expected that these attacks will intensify these days in preparation for the offensive.

New systems have been introduced, from the Storm missile to the ADM-160 and probably more "surprises" that we have not seen yet and that have been given to Ukraine without announcing it (like the ADM).
It will take a while for Russian SAMs to learn to deal with these problems as it did with HIMARS, on the other hand, these systems are not as numerous as HIMARS and even if the right conditions are not met many of these systems have already been countered in the past.

Ukraine has launched half a dozen GROM missiles before (but not in combination with the ADM-160) and all were destroyed or affected by EW measures.

The Storm for example was destroyed by anti-aircraft measures in 2018 in Syria, it is not an invincible system, but it is VERY dangerous and will cause damage.

The most worrying element is the ADM-160, this is its first known use in battle, that is, the excuse that "Ukraine does not use the best NATO has" is getting more stupid every day, this is one of the best systems NATO have.

In summary.

Bad points:
- Ukraine is making use of the best NATO systems
- Systems not seen before in Ukraine and due to being so new, it will take time to adapt with almost complete success as with the HIMARS.

Positive points:
- Many of these systems are partially known and have been counteracted in the past, this must be taken into account, not over confidence, or panic...
- Being increasingly modern, expensive and advanced weapons, the stocks of these will not be so extensive.

Multiple news outlets citing Cherevaty, spokesman for the Eastern Military Group:

Cherevaty posted:

"Over three days of counteroffensives, the Ukrainian Armed Forces liberated 17.3 km� in the Bakhmut sector

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1657107631142588426?s=20

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 20:45 on May 12, 2023

# ? May 12, 2023 20:41

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Months of attacks and tens of thousands of lives, with hundreds of pieces of equipment worth of gains, all wiped out in a matter of three days.

# ? May 12, 2023 20:49

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

quote:

- Being increasingly modern, expensive and advanced weapons, the stocks of these will not be so extensive.

Oh, buddy.

You haven't seen the 3000 Abrams of Biden yet?

# ? May 12, 2023 20:54

boofhead: Feb 18, 2021

zone posted:

Months of attacks and tens of thousands of lives, with hundreds of pieces of equipment worth of gains, all wiped out in a matter of three days.

Can you provide any sort of sources on this? There's a lot of Russian propaganda-level hyperbole in this thread lately and I'm scratching my head as to what you all are talking about. Did I miss something or do you really think the few square kilometres of territory that changed hands in the last few days, i.e. the tips of the failed Russian encirclement attempt on the northern and southern flanks, involved tens of thousands of Russian deaths and hundreds of pieces of destroyed Russian equipment? This is not the city of Bakhmut itself, and even then they'd have had to have retaken way past the train line for that to be anywhere close to reality

I've tried to ignore it to this point but I'm just so confused that nobody else in the thread is calling this stuff out for being make believe. Every statement I've seen or read from the Ukrainian military, either soldiers/officers on the ground or official spokespeople, has said that the general reaction to these counterattacks is completely overblown, yet it just keeps on going. What have I missed?

# ? May 12, 2023 21:10

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

Russia still holds nearly all the area they spent all those men and all that equipment taking, sure. But given how many lives they have lost for every square meter taken, it is extremely striking when they just give up and abandon even small parts of it.

# ? May 12, 2023 21:15

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

boofhead posted:

Can you provide any sort of sources on this? There's a lot of Russian propaganda-level hyperbole in this thread lately and I'm scratching my head as to what you all are talking about. Did I miss something or do you really think the few square kilometres of territory that changed hands in the last few days, i.e. the tips of the failed Russian encirclement attempt on the northern and southern flanks, involved tens of thousands of Russian deaths and hundreds of pieces of destroyed Russian equipment? This is not the city of Bakhmut itself, and even then they'd have had to have retaken way past the train line for that to be anywhere close to reality

I've tried to ignore it to this point but I'm just so confused that nobody else in the thread is calling this stuff out for being make believe. Every statement I've seen or read from the Ukrainian military, either soldiers/officers on the ground or official spokespeople, has said that the general reaction to these counterattacks is completely overblown, yet it just keeps on going. What have I missed?

No they are not saying that the counteroffensive involved that many casualties to recapture. It's saying the Russians spent that much to take the territory up to that point in the first place. Bakhmut has notably been measured in progress such as meters per hundred deaths. One of the reasons Prigozhin is particularly mad about this localized series of counterattacks is because Wagner spent 500-600 casualties to take the area originally that Ukraine just recaptured. It took Wagner ~3 weeks to take what Ukraine recaptured in 3 days, and it's the drastic disparity in casualties taken on each side that is being pointed out right now. Ukraine's balance sheet is a lot lower for their recapture in terms of time spent and casualties taken in comparison to Wagner's balance sheet for taking it in the first place.

The Bakhmut counterattacks are not the primary counteroffensive. These are just Ukraine seeing areas of opportunity where Russia is stretched too thinly and too damaged after the end of their winter offensive to repel, and they're busting through because they have the chance to NOW and they might not LATER. The main event is still to come. It's notable to point out these Bakhmut counterattacks precisely because Russia was grinding through thousands upon thousands of casualties since last fall to take the city up to the point where they have now, and Ukraine accomplishes equivalent progress in 3 days to what took Russia much, much longer to accomplish at a much higher price than the Ukrainians are paying for it.

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 12, 2023

# ? May 12, 2023 21:25

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Yeah, I'll be honest, I'd have thought Bakhmut would've been the one place Russia would not have given up for anything shot of Zelensky marching to Moscow, considering all the lives and materiel that they spent trying to take it. And they were so close too, or at least that was what the doomsaying just a few weeks or so ago was about. It's like bankrupting yourself to run a marathon in the middle of Bumfuck, Nowhere, and then making GBS threads yourself a metre before the front line and then going home.

# ? May 12, 2023 21:31

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

No one really knows why Bakhmut has ended up the way it is. Pretty sure even Ukraine were probably scratching their heads as to why Russia went all in on it. A line has to be drawn somewhere and Russia decided to draw the line instead for Ukraine. It's an absolute stupid waste of life but in the eyes of Ukraine generals, never stop your enemy when he is making a mistake. In this case a loving poo poo load of them.

# ? May 12, 2023 21:50

Pander: Oct 9, 2007; Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.

Tai posted:

No one really knows why Bakhmut has ended up the way it is. Pretty sure even Ukraine were probably scratching their heads as to why Russia went all in on it. A line has to be drawn somewhere and Russia decided to draw the line instead for Ukraine. It's an absolute stupid waste of life but in the eyes of Ukraine generals, never stop your enemy when he is making a mistake. In this case a loving poo poo load of them.

The counter argument was that the months-long tactical blunder of killing off your own troops by attacking well entrenched defenses was part of a larger strategic vision to hinder any potential Ukrainian advances and stall out western support. The loss of rank and file infantry would be worth it, were that the case. Take bakhmut, western support dwindles, and Ukraine is forced to accept a white peace of sorts.

Instead, it's now both a tactical AND strategic blunder that will be one more lesson learned about the effects of terrible leadership and misplaced priorities in the warfighting environment.

# ? May 12, 2023 21:55

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Tai posted:

No one really knows why Bakhmut has ended up the way it is. Pretty sure even Ukraine were probably scratching their heads as to why Russia went all in on it. A line has to be drawn somewhere and Russia decided to draw the line instead for Ukraine. It's an absolute stupid waste of life but in the eyes of Ukraine generals, never stop your enemy when he is making a mistake. In this case a loving poo poo load of them.

Russia needed a win badly, and Bakhmut was there. To get something done fast, Russia publicly over-committed to a meaningless battle that their Elite Private Army was already doing, and Ukraine was more than happy to oblige them due to being a defending side on an urban warfare in a place where their artillery, anti-air and pre-made defenses enabled them to just bleed out the opponent while slowly backing out when necessary. Zelenskyi visited the city while it was being actively attacked, that's how prepared they were and that should have been a red flag for the Russians but why start doing smart moves now?

In the end, it turned out to be the battle of Verdun for the Russians, and when they started to stupidly publicly cry out about being overstretched and out of ammo, Ukraine just started to push them out after they confirmed that the public outcries were in fact, true.

I don't have that image "We are glad that they are so bad at this" at hand but I'd post it here if I had it.

Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 12, 2023

# ? May 12, 2023 21:59

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

Der Kyhe posted:

Russia needed a win badly, and Bakhmut was there. To get something done fast, Russia publicly over-committed to a meaningless battle that their Elite Private Army was already doing, and Ukraine was more than happy to oblige them due to being a defending side on an urban warfare in a place where their artillery, anti-air and pre-made defenses enabled them to just bleed out the opponent while slowly backing out when necessary. Zelenskyi visited the city while it was being actively attacked, that's how prepared they were and that should have been a red flag for the Russians but why start doing smart moves now?

In the end, it turned out to be the battle of Verdun for the Russians, and when they started to stupidly publicly cry out about being overstretched and out of ammo, Ukraine just started to push them out after they confirmed that the public outcries were in fact, true.

I don't have that image "We are glad that they are so bad at this" at hand but I'd post it here if I had it.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:02

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

Der Kyhe posted:

I don't have that image "We are glad that they are so bad at this" at hand but I'd post it here if I had it.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:02

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

lmao

# ? May 12, 2023 22:07

Karma Comedian: Feb 2, 2012

"Deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Viktor Vodolatsky came under fire in Russian controlled Luhansk. https://t.co/UA0bAmOVX0"

Dudes being walked out of some building wreckage with a bit of blood in his forehead - I didn't see anything else in the background

# ? May 12, 2023 22:21

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

THE BAR posted:

tiaz posted:

Exactly.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Der Kyhe posted:

I don't have that image "We are glad that they are so bad at this" at hand but I'd post it here if I had it.

What has really struck me about Russia's whole "Bakhmut or Bust" campaign is that they threw away the major advantage to being on the offensive: specifically, having the initiative and being able to pick the time and place of your attacks and forcing the defender to respond. When you signal ahead of time that you are just going to pour all your resources into a single part of the front and you are going to just batter forward there come hell or high water and you do just that, you just made the defense's job a thousand times easier.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:39

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

1,000 casualties a day for a few months. You cannot keep that going without this being the end result. Where the PTSD Of the soldier gets to where they don't give a poo poo whether they die or not.
This is literally what happened in WW1 AND 2. Shell shock will destroy your self preservation.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:42

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

FMguru posted:

What has really struck me about Russia's whole "Bakhmut or Bust" campaign is that they threw away the major advantage to being on the offensive: specifically, having the initiative and being able to pick the time and place of your attacks and forcing the defender to respond. When you signal ahead of time that you are just going to pour all your resources into a single part of the front and you are going to just batter forward there come hell or high water and you do just that, you just made the defense's job a thousand times easier.

Well, you really leave me no choice here

# ? May 12, 2023 22:42

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Even if this is a winding down of Bakhmut I don't know how to classify it as anything other than willful stupidity by the Russians and an unfortunate necessity to meet blood with blood by the Ukrainian defenders.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:43

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Certainly not helping matters that the reward for managing to live for six months in Bakhmut is being sent home with a license to be as psychopathic as you want and the official response of the government security forces is for people to be grateful for you

Guardian posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/22/alcohol-and-prostitutes-wagner-convicts-pardoned-by-putin-return-to-terrorise-home-towns

And Prigozhin, a longtime ally of Putin, has vowed to help former convicts who have served out their contracts in Ukraine if they get in trouble with law enforcement.

�The police should treat you with respect. If they are being unreasonable � I myself will call and sort things out with the governors and so on. We will find a solution,� Pirgozhin recently told a group of former prisoners.

...
...

�I was drinking basically non-stop, I finally had freedom and a lot of money,� he said.

Savichev described to the Observer how police in Voronezh would occasionally detain him for disorderly conduct late at night.

But, according to his account, he was released every time after showing the police some of the medals he received for fighting in Ukraine, including a presidential award for �bravery� seen by the Observer.

�The cops treated me somewhat like a hero,� Savichev boasted, adding that police officers would invite him for tea to hear tales about his time with Wagner.

�It felt like I could get away with anything.�

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 22:46 on May 12, 2023

# ? May 12, 2023 22:44

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346

# ? May 12, 2023 22:45

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

lmao I think that one might be one goblin rant too far. Just outright going on about blocking units liquidating fleeing regular units is uhhhh, hmm.

hmmmmmmm

# ? May 12, 2023 22:49

Sedgr: Sep 16, 2007; Neat!

Putin is a real piece of poo poo.

# ? May 12, 2023 22:56

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

HonorableTB posted:

lmao I think that one might be one goblin rant too far. Just outright going on about blocking units liquidating fleeing regular units is uhhhh, hmm.

hmmmmmmm

The next guestion is where are the Rosvgardian units or Tiktok commander's units deployed. They are the blocking units used but is there something behind Wagner? And if there isn't, doesn't this leave a huge hole to their frontline?

# ? May 12, 2023 22:57

Warm und Fuzzy: Jun 20, 2006

HonorableTB posted:

lmao I think that one might be one goblin rant too far. Just outright going on about blocking units liquidating fleeing regular units is uhhhh, hmm.

hmmmmmmm

Imagine this happening to any other country on the planet. Imagine Blackrock shooting US Marines, and then broadcasting it worldwide. We're seeing a total breakdown of authority.

Edit: *Blackwater

# ? May 12, 2023 23:08

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Der Kyhe posted:

The next guestion is where are the Rosvgardian units or Tiktok commander's units deployed. They are the blocking units used but is there something behind Wagner? And if there isn't, doesn't this leave a huge hole to their frontline?

The Kadyrovites are don likely don somewhere far away from don the action pretendong to be at the frontlines don. Check the nearest don Rosneft-accepting don gas station and there's a good don chance ramdon is there, don

# ? May 12, 2023 23:10

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346

So the different factions are literally shooting at each other? Seems notable (assuming it's true, which is far from a given)

# ? May 12, 2023 23:12

poverty goat: Feb 15, 2004

Buzzman posted:

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1657066925002838016

# ? May 12, 2023 23:17

weg: Jun 6, 2006; Reassisted Retrogression

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1657126013002809346

They are gonna push this dude out of the last intact window in Bakhmut before they pull out lol.

# ? May 12, 2023 23:20

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

This war is going to go on for a while isnt it

# ? May 12, 2023 23:21

zone: Dec 6, 2016

HappyHippo posted:

So the different factions are literally shooting at each other? Seems notable (assuming it's true, which is far from a given)

It's not the first time different parts of the Russian army have shot each other. In the early days of the war, Buryats and Kadyrovites would often get into arguments over loot, especially when the Kadyrovites would try stealing from the Buryats. There was a well known incident during the siege of Kherson where Russian regular army and FSB got into a gunfight in a bar because the FSB scolded the regulars for drinking on duty. Wagner have gotten into shootings before with both the regular army, mobiks, and some other group I don't remember exactly off hand.

# ? May 12, 2023 23:23

Oscar Wilde Bunch: Jun 12, 2012; Grimey Drawer

HonorableTB posted:

lmao

, just

I'd like to see the after action report on the RU side.

Did we get it?

No, it was shot down by the system we were targeting, which it wasn't supposed to be able to do.

# ? May 12, 2023 23:37

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1657133852052037638
Somehow, I doubt Russia will hold up their end of the bargain, but points for trying

# ? May 12, 2023 23:44

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

Warm und Fuzzy posted:

Imagine this happening to any other country on the planet. Imagine Blackrock shooting US Marines, and then broadcasting it worldwide. We're seeing a total breakdown of authority.

Daily reminder to take everything Prigozhin says with all the salt dug up from Soledar.

It's entirely possible that Wagner did the running and the regulars did the shooting. We just don't know, and the goblin is not a reliable source.

# ? May 12, 2023 23:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 28, 2024 06:46

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:

I'd like to see the after action report on the RU side.

Hero soldiers of the Motherland, employing military techno-scientific measures recalling the bravery of our fathers during the Great Patriotic War, and following the inspiring words of Vladimir Vladimirovich for resolute and decisive action to expel the invaders from our Sacred Soil, have caused great damage to the so-called invulnerable Patriot system, and we can hear, from our trenches, the cowardly knees of NATO knocking against the other in fear of Russian might. We assess with high confidence that the western capitals will know of Russia''s firm hand after this incident proving Russia's fierce valor. Please send additional fish cakes.

# ? May 12, 2023 23:56

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

«‹›1429 »