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Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



I don't know about other servers, but Everlasting does double Hami runs 3 times a day. If you can bring a different 50 each time, that's 360 merits a day in less time/effort than it takes to run one ITF.

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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Also if you don't care about cosmetic unlocks, Prismatic Aethers are still going for 4 million each. 2% chance to drop from any mission completion and you get at least 1 for free when doing WSTs on a 50. Plus guaranteed drops from iTrials and advanced difficulty gubbins (though tellingly nobody seems to actually run those almost ever).

Like you really need to make ALL the money and kit out a whole multitude of level 50 characters using the priciest IOs you can get immediately, then yeah I guess you can grind and farm all day and use every trick in the book to get there. But for casual or slightly above casual play you can basically just do whatever and merits/inf/drops will trickle in and you'll end up with 50 mil just from running random poo poo on high level characters and not even know where it came from.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 09:46 on May 10, 2023

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


the advanced difficulty dr. aeon TF is actually really cool and shouldn't be skipped out on, advanced difficulty ITF is a pain though.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Jazerus posted:

yeah just play the game. there is no need to do anything fancy or repetitive to get money and gear up, the inf will be there when you need it as long as you're doing any kind of structured content at all - story arcs, TFs, flashbacks, everything has merits attached that convert quickly to cash on demand.

im a weirdo who enjoys the leveling process and likes to twink the poo poo out of alts so farming is/was very appealing to me so i could feed that addiction (making new characters)

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Tabletops posted:

im a weirdo who enjoys the leveling process and likes to twink the poo poo out of alts so farming is/was very appealing to me so i could feed that addiction (making new characters)

I'm the same way, and I've been working on 3 farmers across 3 accounts to eventually multibox them and then I can powerlevel whoever too

p.s. someone please help me get my main rad/fire farmer to 50 it sucks to play outside of farms and isn't strong enough to farm yet :kiddo:

future edit: Actually now at level ~35 with prestige enhances stuck in my damage auras my fire farmer can easily level himself :dance:

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 11, 2023

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Jazerus posted:

the advanced difficulty dr. aeon TF is actually really cool and shouldn't be skipped out on, advanced difficulty ITF is a pain though.

Had the exact opposite experience personally. I enjoy normal Dr. Aeon TF but on 4* it really feels like it overstays its welcome. Drags on too much even with skips.

ITF is a much more enjoyable pace.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
thinking of trying a tanker since they're in a good spot w/ dmg and tankiness compared to scrappers and brutes. i've also never played one before.

what powerset should I try if I want to be both very stronk and also flashy? I'm not a huge fan of weapon sets (like AR or titan weapons).

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Shield/Electric Melee has two very awesome Big Moves

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Tabletops posted:

thinking of trying a tanker since they're in a good spot w/ dmg and tankiness compared to scrappers and brutes. i've also never played one before.

what powerset should I try if I want to be both very stronk and also flashy? I'm not a huge fan of weapon sets (like AR or titan weapons).

Give Radiation Armor a try. You are literally the flashiest, biggest visual clusterfuck possible and tough as hell. You can use procs to turn Radiation Therapy and Ground Zero into damage bombs, too.

Secondary choice is more to taste. If you wanna go hard on procs, SS lets you cheese Rage to supply damage and tohit so you don't have to slot them. MA is a really solid performer on a tank. If you wanna get adventurous with a weapon set anyway, the new Axe is outstanding.

Nonexistence
Jan 6, 2014
Granite/MA-staff-katana for silly animations with big rock man

Kheldarn
Feb 17, 2011



As someone who mained an Martial Arts Scrapper on Live, I highly recommend going Street Justice, although the idea of doing all those spins and flips while in Grantie is a strong selling point for Martial Arts…

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Street Justice is great, it is very much the Tim Burton Batman style of fighting and it has awesome crunchy sound.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
thanks for the recommendations. I decided to try a savage melee/radiation tanker first. and am going to level another one as well, not sure on the powerset though.


may try fire, ice or electric for the dmg set with shield


also the prices of enhance sets have gone up dramatically. it's like 3-5mil inf each for a mid lvl melee set which is wild to me. and here i thought prices would drop with the ae nerf.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

There's a quirk with the AH and enhances where if you take any given enhancement on the AH, like Luck of the Gambler recharge, the prices and sales data listed (including the number listed/number of bids) are for any level of that enhance, not only for the level you're looking at. But actual transactions only happen with the level you're looking at.

In theory the lower level ones would be listed cheaper, but since they're generally listed based on a price comparison against last 5, they all get listed/sold at roughly the same price, which makes the lower level ones not much cheaper than level 50s unless you get lucky, they'll be maybe 1-2m less than the level 50 average in general.

e: I think Catalyzed (level-less versions listed at lvl1 on the AH) enhances have different price data than their leveled counterparts fwiw but are generally about the same price as a level 50 or a bit higher (and they're weaker than level 50s)

e2: Place low-ish bids on level 31 IOs for the lowest prices. They get crafted/converted/listed en masse. A bid of ~1-1.25m for virtually any level 31 IO that isn't a very valuable one (e.g. LotG) will probably go through eventually, and you can get the LotG tier ones for around 4m each at 31.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 13, 2023

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



deep dish peat moss posted:

There's a quirk with the AH and enhances where if you take any given enhancement on the AH, like Luck of the Gambler recharge, the prices and sales data listed (including the number listed/number of bids) are for any level of that enhance, not only for the level you're looking at.

That's because the inventory for enhancements on the AH are combined from all possible listings, they all do cost the same. You place any level LotG for sale and it goes into a pool for that enhancement, and then it can be purchased at any level (including attuned.)

Hydra/Titan enhancements of the same type have their listings combined the same way, and so do Hami-o's and Synthetic Hami-o's. Salvage is also pooled the same way across entire rarities, which is why magic salvage items don't inexplicably cost 5x more like it used to on retail servers.

Gynovore
Jun 17, 2009

Forget your RoboCoX or your StickyCoX or your EvilCoX, MY CoX has Blinking Bewbs!

WHY IS THIS GAME DEAD?!

Kheldarn posted:

As someone who mained an Martial Arts Scrapper on Live, I highly recommend going Street Justice, although the idea of doing all those spins and flips while in Grantie is a strong selling point for Martial Arts…

Yeah seconding this, Street Justice blows the doors off MA.

Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.
Opinions on SJ for Stalkers?

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Coward posted:

Opinions on SJ for Stalkers?

Kicks rear end. If you're gonna play it at all, that's where I'd do it. The combo mechanic works great with Assassin's Strike, you have reliable access to Build Up+Gaussian's, and getting guaranteed combo level 3 crits on a procced out Uppercut hits for around ~2k damage.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Tabletops posted:

thanks for the recommendations. I decided to try a savage melee/radiation tanker first. and am going to level another one as well, not sure on the powerset though.


may try fire, ice or electric for the dmg set with shield


also the prices of enhance sets have gone up dramatically. it's like 3-5mil inf each for a mid lvl melee set which is wild to me. and here i thought prices would drop with the ae nerf.

fwiw Savage Melee is good but much more suited for Brutes because the DOT scaled with rage.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I'm not sure how I keep ending up with such miserable end economy. Last character it was a Night Widow, which at least makes a tiny bit more sense, now with the talk of Tanks I revived my old Shield/Axe and it's the same thing.

And that's ignoring Grant Cover for now, superseded by Hover. I only just hit 27 so maybe Miracle will help but I already had all the other procs running... No Hasten cranking my recharge or crashing my end. I have one whole LotG slotted so far, so I'm not burning too hard and fast from that either.

Literally all I can think of is that while leveling I still need that third end mod slot in Stamina instead of getting away with the standard 2 + Performance Shifter.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 07:07 on May 14, 2023

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
All the procs includes Panacea for the periodic HP/end topup? It's a bit pricey but it definitely helps.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Yes, all of 'em.

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011

cox is designed with the base assumption that it's actually cool and good to run out of endurance and that you should take a five minute break every two minutes. because it's so core to the design the problem can only ever be mitigated unless you go full hardcore build, in which case it's also the number one thing to build around, because it turns out people prefer pressing buttons over not pressing buttons. if you're a casual who only occasionally dips your toes into this whole io business you'll spend more time waiting for your blue bar to go back up then actually playing.

frankly they should just double both your endurance and endurance recovery, but i imagine that would cause the core playerbase to ragequit or whatever

see also: every enemy in the game having a minimum chance to dodge, which leads to such interesting and fascinating moments of gameplay friction like playing a stalker, bane spider or night widow, missing your assassin's strike for the fifth time today, and just wanting to turn the game off

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
The confounding thing is that I don't remember ever having this much trouble keeping topped up before. Sure it varied a bit from set to set or if I was up against a mismatch (lethal vs. robots) but generally 3x end mod in Stamina and end redux in toggles was usually enough to put it out of my mind entirely.

Edit: At this point I've got three + proc in Stamina, all three procs in Health, end redux in everything (including Hover) but my two basic bread and butter attacks and I'm just about finally floating even. No idea if and how I can fit Grant Cover in any time soon without regretting it. I guess on the plus side it won't be long until Epics.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 12:40 on May 14, 2023

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

a cartoon duck posted:

cox is designed with the base assumption that it's actually cool and good to run out of endurance and that you should take a five minute break every two minutes. because it's so core to the design the problem can only ever be mitigated unless you go full hardcore build, in which case it's also the number one thing to build around, because it turns out people prefer pressing buttons over not pressing buttons. if you're a casual who only occasionally dips your toes into this whole io business you'll spend more time waiting for your blue bar to go back up then actually playing.

frankly they should just double both your endurance and endurance recovery, but i imagine that would cause the core playerbase to ragequit or whatever

see also: every enemy in the game having a minimum chance to dodge, which leads to such interesting and fascinating moments of gameplay friction like playing a stalker, bane spider or night widow, missing your assassin's strike for the fifth time today, and just wanting to turn the game off

At least they did eventually make it so that missing your AS as a stalker doesn't break hide (not that this helps if you habitually queue up a follow up like I do).

John Murdoch posted:

The confounding thing is that I don't remember ever having this much trouble keeping topped up before. Sure it varied a bit from set to set or if I was up against a mismatch (lethal vs. robots) but generally 3x end mod in Stamina and end redux in toggles was usually enough to put it out of my mind entirely.

Edit: At this point I've got three + proc in Stamina, all three procs in Health, end redux in everything (including Hover) but my two basic bread and butter attacks and I'm just about finally floating even. No idea if and how I can fit Grant Cover in any time soon without regretting it. I guess on the plus side it won't be long until Epics.

The thing about end management is that a lot of people think it's toggles that are eating all their end, but it's not; it's the regular attacks. Putting end redux in them as well helps but the big killer is having a lot of +recharge, which IO-heavy builds tend to have. There's a bit of a tipping point when doing your final build where your end situation gets a lot worse before it gets better, because it tends to be easier to get global recharge buffs than global end redux buffs. Once you get purples in things it's less of a problem because slotting a full set gives a huge amount of end redux for that power, but how many purple sets you can slot varies depending on your AT/powersets. Really the best option is to just make friends with someone who can give you +recovery buffs.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I did some poking around and it sounds like both Shield and Battle Axe are both well known for being end suckers, so :ms: I guess.

I sometimes get a bit of a worrying vibe that despite claims to the contrary they're designing/redesigning stuff assuming a whole clutch of IOs. This combo would be functionally unplayable without them and I hate builds that basically need to have full Incarnate + IOs fully planned out and plugged in to make any sense.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 12:43 on May 14, 2023

Gynovore
Jun 17, 2009

Forget your RoboCoX or your StickyCoX or your EvilCoX, MY CoX has Blinking Bewbs!

WHY IS THIS GAME DEAD?!
It's hard to imagine that for the first half of the game, players didn't automatically get the Fitness pool.

Personally I rarely run into end problems. Always 3-slot Stamina, get the Numina's and Performance Shitter procs as soon as possible, always put 2 endredux in any Leadership toggles.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

The Cheshire Cat posted:

The thing about end management is that a lot of people think it's toggles that are eating all their end, but it's not; it's the regular attacks. Putting end redux in them as well helps but the big killer is having a lot of +recharge, which IO-heavy builds tend to have. There's a bit of a tipping point when doing your final build where your end situation gets a lot worse before it gets better, because it tends to be easier to get global recharge buffs than global end redux buffs. Once you get purples in things it's less of a problem because slotting a full set gives a huge amount of end redux for that power, but how many purple sets you can slot varies depending on your AT/powersets. Really the best option is to just make friends with someone who can give you +recovery buffs.

I learned this lesson recently on my savage/bio brute. A single attack's end cost can be the equivalent of running a high-cost toggle for a full 40-50 seconds and I'm pressing that attack every 3-4 seconds. Running a single end redux crafted IO in each attack and slotting one purple set for global end redux eliminated all of my end problems allowing me to save all 3 of my cooldowns as panic buttons (/bio is a very good set but it's bad for me personally because I hate using medium-long survival cooldowns when they're not needed for survival to get their 'all the time' type buffs like recovery so I had to slot it to be playable without any of the 3 defensive cooldowns running before it felt good to me ugh)

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Gynovore posted:

It's hard to imagine that for the first half of the game, players didn't automatically get the Fitness pool.


not just that, you had to decide if you wanted to wait on your blue bar or like, have a travel power at all because it cost two(?) power slots and a pool choice

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

Flesh Forge posted:

not just that, you had to decide if you wanted to wait on your blue bar or like, have a travel power at all because it cost two(?) power slots and a pool choice

And this was before the awesome mini travel powers of ninja/beast/ athletic run and a jump pack. With those, you can basically defer a travel power until whenever. Imagine having to sprint everywhere and not being able to jump over a small building by default. Oh and you didn't have the fitness runspeed/jump height passives either.

Anyways, two questions: What are folks slotting into stamina these days? Leaving it at 3 or putting it all the way to 6 with a full set?

Is it possible to perma haste anymore?

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Stamina pretty much universally gets two end mod IOs (at 50 they're most of the way to 3 SOs) and the Performance Shifter proc. If you're really obsessed with grabbing a few more set bonuses you can put in three Performance Shifter pieces for a bit of movement speed and like 2~% max HP at the cost of some effectiveness.

Perma-Hasten is possible by stacking recharge from set bonuses, though it can wildly vary from AT to AT and from build to build and can lead to some nonsensical looking bullshit.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 17:20 on May 14, 2023

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
NB you can get Hasten to have like 10 or 15 seconds of downtime and that's functionally the same.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer
Yeah basically I was curious if 3 recharge IOs were going to be enough. I started a new plant/nature controller and having 4 minute recharge times blows.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny

honestly you can buy your way out of the endurance slump at the end of your 20s with relatively cheap/mid-tier enhancement sets in your damage powers

which is more than can be said for real life

(the degree to which enhancement sets combine damage, accuracy and endurance reduction more efficiently than IOs/SOs is kind of frustrating but that's how they're designed. at least they're craftable!)

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Soonmot posted:

Yeah basically I was curious if 3 recharge IOs were going to be enough. I started a new plant/nature controller and having 4 minute recharge times blows.

it isn't super intuitive but you can hit the recharge soft cap/diminishing returns in the late game fairly easily and there is little practical difference between 2 slots and 3 slots for recharge on Hasten (e.g. on a build I'm looking at, 2 L50 recharge = 131.7 sec, 3 = 128.5)

e: I should mention, for control sets in general yes your 4 minute recharge power is pretty much the least useful tool in the box. Nobody plays the game based around those any more, they are due for the same kind of rethinking that nukes got a long time ago. The game isn't really about situational long-recharge powers except for the fairly brief period between your 30s and the level cap, it hasn't been for a very long time.

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 20:28 on May 14, 2023

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


sets and hasten will get you enough recharge time as a controller without special investment. for most controller powersets, you have a lot of redundancy where there are 3 or 4 different AoE powers that shut down a whole group of enemies, so you don't need all of them for every group to be doing the most important part of your role, just one at a time.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

LordSaturn posted:

honestly you can buy your way out of the endurance slump at the end of your 20s with relatively cheap/mid-tier enhancement sets in your damage powers

which is more than can be said for real life

(the degree to which enhancement sets combine damage, accuracy and endurance reduction more efficiently than IOs/SOs is kind of frustrating but that's how they're designed. at least they're craftable!)

yeah this is what I do, I just buy attuned sets as I level and slot them as I go and it's pretty tolerable

Gorgar
Dec 2, 2012

John Murdoch posted:

end redux in everything (including Hover) but my two basic bread and butter attacks and I'm just about finally floating even.

If I get your meaning here, you mean you don't have end reduction in the two attacks you use the most?

I used to be aggressive about slotting end reduction in toggles, until a friend pointed out: turn on all your toggles, stand there, you never run out of end. Turn them all off, use attacks constantly, end goes to zero. Now if I am playing something low, I put an end reduction in every attack/control, and it seems to take care of the problem. Sometimes I'll put them in Leadership if I take it so early I can't fit gaussians and lotg/red fortune in tactics and maneuvers yet, but I usually just don't take those that early.

Also, Hover only uses .19/sec. I don't think it's worth putting end reduction in at any level. If you respec and move the end reduction in your toggles to your attacks, I think your situation will improve greatly.

The toggle thing doesn't apply to certain expensive ones: snow storm, darkest night, telekinesis, etc, but I find it applies to the armor sets and utility powers like hover and combat jumping.

I did take the Energy Mastery epic on my shield brute, so I could fit two more perf shifter procs in superior conditioning and physical perfection, and I took whatever alpha reduces end costs on my axe tank, but she's playable without it, and she took leadership and fighting instead of an epic to help with end. The nice thing about those procs is that I believe they work even exemped down to the point where you don't have the epic powers.

But if you slot enough end reduction in your attacks, you'll probably be fine at pre-epic levels.

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Yeah, a helpful way to look at attack powers vs toggles is averaging the end costs and animation times of your attacks, or by taking a look at the (totally busted) DPS calculator in Mids. It's not helpful for its intended purpose, but it does calculate end per second to give you a ballpark figure.



Suddenly, your toggles seem pretty tame by comparison to 6~ eps.

Obviously end redux in attacks helps, but you can also pick up a Survival Amplifier (+20%, up to 8 hours) and Recovery Serum (+100%, 4 minutes, holds a fuckton of charges) at the p2w vendor. The costs here scale by level, so mail yourself some inf and get as much as you can at level 1 for dirt cheap.

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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Gorgar posted:

If I get your meaning here, you mean you don't have end reduction in the two attacks you use the most?

I used to be aggressive about slotting end reduction in toggles, until a friend pointed out: turn on all your toggles, stand there, you never run out of end. Turn them all off, use attacks constantly, end goes to zero. Now if I am playing something low, I put an end reduction in every attack/control, and it seems to take care of the problem. Sometimes I'll put them in Leadership if I take it so early I can't fit gaussians and lotg/red fortune in tactics and maneuvers yet, but I usually just don't take those that early.

Also, Hover only uses .19/sec. I don't think it's worth putting end reduction in at any level. If you respec and move the end reduction in your toggles to your attacks, I think your situation will improve greatly.

The toggle thing doesn't apply to certain expensive ones: snow storm, darkest night, telekinesis, etc, but I find it applies to the armor sets and utility powers like hover and combat jumping.

I did take the Energy Mastery epic on my shield brute, so I could fit two more perf shifter procs in superior conditioning and physical perfection, and I took whatever alpha reduces end costs on my axe tank, but she's playable without it, and she took leadership and fighting instead of an epic to help with end. The nice thing about those procs is that I believe they work even exemped down to the point where you don't have the epic powers.

But if you slot enough end reduction in your attacks, you'll probably be fine at pre-epic levels.

I've gone through a few different slotting philosophies over the years and none of them have ever quite been as reliable as I'd hoped.

Tier 1 and tier 2 attacks is what I mean. I can see the logic in prioritizing the stuff I'm using the absolute most, but at least in the past I generally brushed off trying to shave off percentages from say, a 5~ end attack even if I was using it all the time. Seems like one of those things that's tricky to pin down due to variance in recharge times and attack chains. In BA's case, I'm maybe leaning on the basic stuff a tiny bit more if only because everything else recharges painfully slow by default, but it doesn't feel like I'm spamming my tier 1 enough that I'd get meaningful returns on popping an end redux in it. Looking at the numbers, tier 2 might be just about worth it.

Hover got the slot because at that point it was costing more to run than any of my other toggles, which felt absurd.

I think another relevant point is that this is a tank, with tank damage modifiers. If I remember right, it's only a 10% step down for Tankers, but that's also surely enough to throw off my efficiency compared to a Scrapper or w/e. Edit: I honestly kind of wish endurance was affected by AT modifiers somehow, it feels incredibly bad to deal less damage for the same endurance.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 14, 2023

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