UKMT Spring 2023 - Springtime for NatCs - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Spring 2023 - Springtime for NatCs

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Gorn Myson posted:

Christopher Hitchens gets the benefit of the doubt because he was a talented writer and an atheist, but his post 9/11 writing is monstrously violent. Even the video of him being waterboarded is bullshit because prior to that he swallowed and parroted the line that it wasn't torture.

Both of the Hitchens brothers can gently caress off and no one should be fondly remembering the one that was actually good at writing.

IDK this feels a bit reductive. Sure, Christopher Hitchens spent a lot of time being a horrible person, but we should also give credit it where it's due: he died in pain.

# ? May 13, 2023 00:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 05:52

Nilbop: Jun 5, 2004; Looks like someone forgot his hardhat...

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

He says this like it's a bad thing.
(I mean the idea of progressive left coalitions not necessarily the Starmer bit).

https://archive.is/https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/278492

Britain could well be heading for seismic electoral reform that'll keep the Left in power for ever. And Starmer may sign up to it without voters even getting a say
ANDREW NEIL
MAY 12, 2023

You will see a reunited Ireland and an independent Scotland before you see voting reform in England.

# ? May 13, 2023 01:04

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Gorn Myson posted:

Both of the Hitchens brothers can gently caress off and no one should be fondly remembering the one that was actually good at writing.

I'm not sure what UKIP oval office's brother is like as a person either, all I can say is that he comes off a bit better by contrast and willingness to at least examine some of his own views.

See also:

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Britain could well be heading for seismic electoral reform that'll keep the Left in power for ever. And Starmer may sign up to it without voters even getting a say
ANDREW NEIL

Reactionaries making Starmer seem far cooler than he actually is again.

# ? May 13, 2023 01:07

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

The secret leftist takeover is also apparently reliant on the Lib Dem�s getting another taste of power and not immediately loving it again like the shithouses they are, so I think there�s not much for the powers-that-be to worry about here.

# ? May 13, 2023 01:12

fuctifino: Jun 11, 2001

Keith refused 11 times to rule out a LD coalition in an interview the other day. He could be Cameron v.2

Which dead animal did Keith gently caress to get the job?

# ? May 13, 2023 01:53

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

This time around it was the pigs' victims that he hosed.

# ? May 13, 2023 01:59

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Nilbop posted:

You will see a reunited Ireland and an independent Scotland before you see voting reform in England.

So like 3 years from now then

# ? May 13, 2023 02:43

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

fuctifino posted:

Keith refused 11 times to rule out a LD coalition in an interview the other day. He could be Cameron v.2

Which dead animal did Keith gently caress to get the job?

The Labour party.

# ? May 13, 2023 07:45

smellmycheese: Feb 1, 2016

Chaos With Keith Starmer

# ? May 13, 2023 07:50

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

fuctifino posted:

Keith refused 11 times to rule out a LD coalition in an interview the other day. He could be Cameron v.2

Which dead animal did Keith gently caress to get the job?

After the meal, Starmer is presented with the freshly severed head of Geronimo. While Luke Akehurst and Ian Murray look on, transfixed.

# ? May 13, 2023 07:57

winegums: Dec 21, 2012

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/12/clause-iv-on-steroids-keir-starmer-says-his-labour-must-go-further-than-blair

quote:

Labour will have to offer voters at the next general election a radical vision that “goes further and deeper” than Tony Blair’s government because of the scale of the crisis facing the country, Keir Starmer is to say

In a speech on Saturday, he will say reforms are necessary because an incoming Labour government will have a bigger task than Blair faced, owing to the severe challenges currently facing the country, on top of 13 years of Conservative rule.

Starmer likened the scale of the changes he would make as akin to “clause IV on steroids”. “If you think our job in 1997 was to rebuild a crumbling public realm, that in 1964 it was to modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers, in 1945 to build a new Britain, in a volatile world, out of the trauma of collective sacrifice – in 2024 it will have to be all three,” he will say.

He will highlight Blair’s controversial move in 1995 to rewrite the Labour constitution, known as clause IV, ditching the party’s then commitment to mass nationalisation in a dramatic shift towards the centre ground.

“This is about taking our party back to where we belong and where we should always have been … back doing what we were created to do,” Starmer will tell the Progressive Britain conference. “That’s why I say this project goes further and deeper than New Labour’s rewriting of clause IV … This is about rolling our sleeves up, changing our entire culture, our DNA. This is clause IV on steroids.”

Starmer’s comments are likely to alarm those on the party’s left who are already angered by his decision to drop pledges on tuition fees and the nationalisation of utilities. He has defended these shifts by saying his proposals have been adapted given unprecedented global events.

Muscular centrism. "We need to dramatically change things in a non specific way they will be more right wing"

E: this is the exact same shite he's been spewing since his "there are changes that need making and this is the change I will bring about " speech. He just constantly tries to make vaguely soothing noises to the electorate and hopes nobody will ask for detail

winegums fucked around with this message at 09:13 on May 13, 2023

# ? May 13, 2023 09:03

Mega Comrade: Apr 22, 2004; Listen buddy, we all got problems!

fuctifino posted:

Keith refused 11 times to rule out a LD coalition in an interview the other day. He could be Cameron v.2

Which dead animal did Keith gently caress to get the job?

At this point a coalition with the dems would pull labour to the left.

# ? May 13, 2023 09:03

fuctifino: Jun 11, 2001

https://twitter.com/dannypowell67/status/1657259208885108736
:toot:

# ? May 13, 2023 09:05

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

I always thought of neil oliver as the history guy in bbc documentaries. When did he become whatever he is now?

# ? May 13, 2023 09:17

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

winegums posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/12/clause-iv-on-steroids-keir-starmer-says-his-labour-must-go-further-than-blair

Muscular centrism. "We need to dramatically change things in a non specific way they will be more right wing"

E: this is the exact same shite he's been spewing since his "there are changes that need making and this is the change I will bring about " speech. He just constantly tries to make vaguely soothing noises to the electorate and hopes nobody will ask for detail

You know what I'd like?
I'd like one loving person to ask Starmer what evidence he has that any of the poo poo he's planning to do, will actually work.

Because gently caress me, this "more of the same, only this time it will work" shtick is incredibly tiresome.

# ? May 13, 2023 09:22

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

Jippa posted:

I always thought of neil oliver as the history guy in bbc documentaries. When did he become whatever he is now?

He always was. His history stuff was always about 'nations'.

# ? May 13, 2023 09:27

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Oh dear me posted:

He always was. His history stuff was always about 'nations'.

That's not true, but no one remembers 2 Men In A Trench so i suppose it may as well be. Do feel a bit for his cohost there, who is a serious archaeologist at Stirling Uni and will be eternally linked to this brokebrained weirdo.

winegums posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/12/clause-iv-on-steroids-keir-starmer-says-his-labour-must-go-further-than-blair

Muscular centrism. "We need to dramatically change things in a non specific way they will be more right wing"

E: this is the exact same shite he's been spewing since his "there are changes that need making and this is the change I will bring about " speech. He just constantly tries to make vaguely soothing noises to the electorate and hopes nobody will ask for detail

Ah, the radicalism of reheated Blairism, which in turn was just Thatcherism with a velvet glove over the steel gauntlet. The radicalism of continuing a failed economic consensus. The bold, visionary radicalism of the loving status quo of the last 44 years. Too radical for me Kieth

# ? May 13, 2023 09:44

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

Radical stick-to-it-iveness

# ? May 13, 2023 09:46

Answers Me: Apr 24, 2012

winegums posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/12/clause-iv-on-steroids-keir-starmer-says-his-labour-must-go-further-than-blair

Muscular centrism. "We need to dramatically change things in a non specific way they will be more right wing"

E: this is the exact same shite he's been spewing since his "there are changes that need making and this is the change I will bring about " speech. He just constantly tries to make vaguely soothing noises to the electorate and hopes nobody will ask for detail

�modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers�

�the gently caress is that supposed to mean?

# ? May 13, 2023 09:52

smellmycheese: Feb 1, 2016

�In order to repair the damage youve done to my hand with that hammer it�s essential I purchase an even bigger hammer and smash myself repeatedly around the head with it. This is the only sensible, grown up option when you think about it�

# ? May 13, 2023 09:56

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Answers Me posted:

�modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers�

�the gently caress is that supposed to mean?

Whatever you think it should mean. You could read it as more funding for social services or you could read it as crackdowns and cruelty. Nice bit of vague language so Keir Starmer proudly stating "I Am A Tory" will get responses of "Wheelll Achully..." from the credulous morons who still think there's anything good about Labour.

# ? May 13, 2023 10:00

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Answers Me posted:

�modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers�

�the gently caress is that supposed to mean?

Kindness of Strangers is what the Actress of Negotiable Virtue Blanche Dubois talks about in Tennessee Williams�s �a streetcar named desire�: she always depended on men who didn�t know her being nice to her (when she was young and pretty) and she�s having trouble handling the fact they aren�t now she isn�t.

So it makes sense for the UK but IDK why Starmer would highlight that.

# ? May 13, 2023 10:02

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Oh dear me posted:

He always was. His history stuff was always about 'nations'.

He got big with 'Coasts' which was a good series back in the day.

Answers Me posted:

�modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers�

�the gently caress is that supposed to mean?

Its meant to be be vague. To the average person it implies 'oh good this means they will be helping people get off the need to goto foodbanks and such'.
But it most probably means 'we are banning food banks, boot straps for all'.

# ? May 13, 2023 10:43

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

happyhippy posted:

He got big with 'Coasts' which was a good series back in the day.

It was very much a British Coast programme to begin with. And even 2 men in a trench, being about battles, was about the sort of national/royal/political/military history that rightwingers gravitate towards. Sure, one could make those programmes without being a right wing loon, but I'm going to have suspicions until evidence to the contrary emerges.

# ? May 13, 2023 10:59

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Most mainstream historians tend to be quite right wing because like everything in Britain if you want to make inroads it helps to be posh, well off and on the side of the people already in charge. It also helps to tell nice stories of goodies and baddies and if every story you tell is "And then the bastards won and made things worse" it doesn't fit into a nice BBC 4 documentary.

# ? May 13, 2023 11:10

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

Gonzo McFee posted:

Most mainstream historians tend to be quite right wing because like everything in Britain if you want to make inroads it helps to be posh, well off and on the side of the people already in charge.

This is true, but also 'mainstream' tends to mean national/royal/military history (which rightwingers gravitate towards), with social/economic history being seen as genre history.

# ? May 13, 2023 11:32

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

"clause 4 on steroids" meaning "further away from clause 4"

# ? May 13, 2023 11:36

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

OwlFancier posted:

"clause 4 on steroids" meaning "further away from clause 4"

yeah I would quite like clause 4 on steroids

# ? May 13, 2023 11:39

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/1656962679070683138?s=20

Kieth's Labour, very radical

# ? May 13, 2023 11:51

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

*sacks all the BAME Leicester councillors*
*one of the remaining ones might be a bit racist*

# ? May 13, 2023 12:02

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Gorn Myson posted:

Christopher Hitchens gets the benefit of the doubt because he was a talented writer and an atheist, but his post 9/11 writing is monstrously violent. Even the video of him being waterboarded is bullshit because prior to that he swallowed and parroted the line that it wasn't torture.

Not sure I follow this. How does that make the video bullshit? Because he changed his mind?

# ? May 13, 2023 12:24

BalloonFish: Jun 30, 2013; Fun Shoe

winegums posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/12/clause-iv-on-steroids-keir-starmer-says-his-labour-must-go-further-than-blair

"Starmer likened the scale of the changes he would make as akin to “clause IV on steroids”. “If you think our job in 1997 was to rebuild a crumbling public realm, that in 1964 it was to modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers, in 1945 to build a new Britain, in a volatile world, out of the trauma of collective sacrifice – in 2024 it will have to be all three,” he will say."

Gee, Keith...I wonder what sort of ideas, policies and reforms the Labour governments of 1945 and 1964 carried out? Surely not nationalisation, huge expansion of universal service provision, social housing programmes, massive strengthening of workers' rights, increased taxation on wealthy individuals, luxury goods and large corporations, projects to make the benefits of technological advances accessible to all, and progressive legislation around gender equality, race and sexuality?

Nope, can't do any of that. I love that his answer is "Clause IV on steroids", which when read literally means 'nationalise even more of the economy that Attlee did, and he nationalised a travel agent and a removals firm' but he actually means 'a Clause IV moment on steroids' which is when Labour abandoned all pretence of being meaningfully socialist.

So Keith faces the challenges of the 1945 and 1964 governments and will act in their same spirit...by being steroidally centrist. Sounds about right.

Answers Me posted:

“modernise an economy overly dependent on the kindness of strangers”

…the gently caress is that supposed to mean?

I genuinely can't work it out. Given what the Wilson ministry said and did, the closest thing I could get to was that one of that government's overarching goals was to create a meritocratic society where access to education, skills and opportunities were not so dependent on family background, place of birth, where you went to school, social networks or plain luck. There was also a big push to ensure people knew about, and had access to, social services and welfare that they were entitled to (the Wilson government actually carried out a publicity campaign to increase the number of people receiving benefits...) which you could cram into a definition of "modernising an economy dependent on the kindness of strangers" but it's a stretch.

And I don't think Starmer knows what it means either. And I doubt he has any idea what the Wilson governments achieved, doesn't care to really find out and wouldn't agree with them if he did.

# ? May 13, 2023 12:29

Drone_Fragger: May 9, 2007

Keith should of lost that duel with the llama in retrospect. Would of been better for everyone. Christ. Radical centrism here we come.

# ? May 13, 2023 12:32

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

oval office fight!
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1657334773973483521

# ? May 13, 2023 12:40

Gorn Myson: Aug 8, 2007

Microplastics posted:

Not sure I follow this. How does that make the video bullshit? Because he changed his mind?

It was obviously torture. You don't need to undergo it to understand that its torture. Going through it and changing your mind on it doesn't suddenly forgive all of the times you said that its definitely not torture and we should be using it regularly against our enemy, the Muslim savages.

# ? May 13, 2023 12:47