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Three Olives posted:Every other luxury good company is running the opposite direction to completely control the consumer experience post Apple Store success. You don’t have to order an iPhone from Apple, you can buy one at Walmart. Apply doesn’t directly control iPhone distribution. They control the Apple Store but a car isn’t a service or an ecosystem, it’s a very expensive appliance.
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May 13, 2023 05:35
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kill me now posted:The only ones who sell direct are the ones that are new to the market and don’t have the ability to establish a dealer network or ones run buy a “move fast break stuff” tech bro who does a lot of things that run against industry “best practices” to be contrarian. Volvo has direct ordering. According to Google, Volvo was founded in 1927 Volvo even has a crazy program where they fly you to Sweden to take a tour of the factory and you drive off the property with your custom-ordered vehicle on temporary European plates. It's like they're offering the most direct possible ordering experience. You can set this up through a dealership if you want but you can also just do it through their website
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May 13, 2023 05:38
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Finger Prince posted:Fine for luxury goods, unless cars are that now. You buy a Porsche, you expect to have "a relationship" with Porsche AG (even if you bought it from a dealership, you're a client). Nobody expects that when they buy "just a car" any more than they do when they buy a Samsung fridge. The average price of a new car is almost $50,000 now, basically every entry level car has been cancelled and you get to chose between a $30k car with hubcaps or the Premium XLS+ with Comfort and Tech that gives you heated seats and cruise control for $40K.
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May 13, 2023 05:43
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Cars anywhere outside of the US are absolutely a luxury item, then again they also mostly have a functional public transit system so cars aren't necessary.
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May 13, 2023 05:48
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Three Olives posted:The average price of a new car is almost $50,000 now, basically every entry level car has been cancelled and you get to chose between a $30k car with hubcaps or the Premium XLS+ with Comfort and Tech that gives you heated seats and cruise control for $40K. Yeah but you can still get a Kia Soul with all the bells and whistles for $23k. It's just that EVs start at double that.
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May 13, 2023 06:13
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Finger Prince posted:Yeah but you can still get a Kia Soul with all the bells and whistles for $23k. It's just that EVs start at double that. My Bolt was $30k (almost flat) and has CarPlay/AA, heated seats, Bose sound, ACC, 360⁰ overhead camera, chargers and USB-C ports and all that everywhere. In general I would consider a Bolt an equivalent to the Soul. If "charging faster than 45kW" is a bell or whistle, then it does not have that.
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May 13, 2023 07:43
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Elviscat posted:My Bolt was $30k (almost flat) and has CarPlay/AA, heated seats, Bose sound, ACC, 360⁰ overhead camera, chargers and USB-C ports and all that everywhere. In general I would consider a Bolt an equivalent to the Soul. The Bolt was discontinued though,likely for these very reasons.
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May 13, 2023 08:24
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Three Olives posted:Every other luxury good company is running the opposite direction to completely control the consumer experience post Apple Store success. for every product that Apple sell through their own stores they sell like ten thousand through “normal” retail channels
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May 13, 2023 08:31
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QuarkJets posted:Volvo has direct ordering. According to Google, Volvo was founded in 1927 Ordering off a website is not the same as not having a dealership. Everything with a Volvo website order is still processed and handled through a Volvo dealership. They don’t have dealerships and separate factory stores. Euro car companies have had a euro delivery option for years, that’s not some unique thing that Volvo does nor is it something that cuts out the local dealership from the process. You also are absolutely not getting any form of discounts other than mfg rebates when you order a car online like that. You pay for the convenience of not having to go into a dealer.
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May 13, 2023 12:04
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Ok Comboomer posted:for every product that Apple sell through their own stores they sell like ten thousand through “normal” retail channels The average price of an Apple product is not $50,000 and easily shipped, I'm saying Apple set an example for luxury goods that other companies are very successfully replicating and have been for years now, that is trickling down to upper-middle class consumers as an expectation. Also, for all the products through "normal" retail channels, they maintain clear product tiers, does Walmart even sell Apple Watch Ultras or iPhone 14 Pros?
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May 13, 2023 12:16
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Three Olives posted:Also, for all the products through "normal" retail channels, they maintain clear product tiers, does Walmart even sell Apple Watch Ultras or iPhone 14 Pros? You have to go to the very upscale Best Buy or Target for an Apple Watch Ultra. Truly a refined and exclusive buying experience. QuarkJets posted:You can set this up through a dealership if you want but you can also just do it through their website Doing it through the website still sends you to a dealership. The paperwork is processed through the dealer and they arrange for final pickup. It’s a less direct experience than just walking in and buying a car. BMW would give a modest discount off MSRP to offset the some cost of flying to Europe and staying but it wasn’t enough to make it cheaper to do ED. And they closed their program in 2020 for US residents. Porsche charges for the privilege. In any case it is very much not direct sales.
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May 13, 2023 14:23
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As much as dealerships are a pain in the rear end, they are a necessary evil. Between inventory (HAH!), logistics, servicing, they really are needed and something resembling the dealer network would end up being needed. The experience of being charged over MSRP because ~reasons~ or forced dealer add-ons is not a pleasant experience. Kickbacks happen in addition to outright profit from cost versus MSRP everywhere on the transaction. From the finance company, warranty company (if applicable), factory/corporate, everywhere. Getting it right at the top line so the consumer feels and knows they were hosed over is just a lovely, unethical thing to do. Trying to talk the customer into something is one thing, forcing them is another. Yet here we are.
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May 13, 2023 14:55
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I have bad news if y’all think that things will return to ‘normalcy’. Supply constraints for automotive have largely been resolved, but manufacturing cost structures are still calibrated to lower volumes. Because for the time being, most automakers have figured out that you make more money selling one $50K car at 15% Gross Margin than selling several $35K cars at 5%. Sooner or later, some genius will remember that you can boost short-term profits through higher manufacturing absorption (produce more than planned at marginal cost) and then have to dump the cars under msrp, but that will take a few budget cycles. There’s a long term scenario where automakers suffer from pricing out customers, but that’s not going to drive prices down that fast. Seeing the insane willingness and ability (for now) of most people to stretch their car notes, I’m not holding my breath. EDIT: there absolutely are instances where you can get a deal on specific makes & models - typically where there is a mismatch between minimum capacity load and demand. But the trick becomes finding those AND wanting / settling for that particular model morothar fucked around with this message at 15:26 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 13, 2023 15:13
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kill me now posted:You also are absolutely not getting any form of discounts other than mfg rebates when you order a car online like that. You pay for the convenience of not having to go into a dealer. Stellantis group French brands have a different pricing model if you go thru them or the dealer. At least a grand difference with zero effort. You get sent to the local dealer just to do the paperwork and final payment once you complete the transaction over the website.
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May 13, 2023 15:38
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morothar posted:I have bad news if y’all think that things will return to ‘normalcy’. Supply constraints for automotive have largely been resolved, but manufacturing cost structures are still calibrated to lower volumes. This is wrong, things are getting better but inventories are still a far cry from pre pandemic levels. Dealership sales is very much driven by inventory levels. The car makers do set bonus goals that will almost always outstrip the motivation to make gross on an individual car. If inventories are high the bonus goal will be high. If that means the dealership makes an extra $500-$750-$1000 per unit if they hit their stairstep they will do what they need to do to make that happen. If its blowing out the in stock cars, they aren't going to hesitate. If your dealership has a 200 car sales target and there is $500 per car riding on it that's an extra $100k in profits. No individual sale is going to make that up if you are on track to fall short. That said if demand is still there and willing to shoulder market adjustments while still allowing dealers to hit their bonus goals then they will stay, but automakers have a reasonable idea of what demand should be and they will adjust targets to match that. There are other non dealership factors that drive higher prices right now. Car makers in many cases have raised MSRP's and are still soft on rebates to adjust for their higher production and shipping costs, interest rates are also way up for both finance and lease as well. Its not all dealership market adjustment that is making things expensive.
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May 13, 2023 15:41
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kill me now posted:Ordering off a website is not the same as not having a dealership. Everything with a Volvo website order is still processed and handled through a Volvo dealership. They don’t have dealerships and separate factory stores. The goalposts are moving so fast here that they may break the sound barrier, holy smokes
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May 13, 2023 16:52
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Three Olives posted:Also, for all the products through "normal" retail channels, they maintain clear product tiers, does Walmart even sell Apple Watch Ultras or iPhone 14 Pros? yes and yes?
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May 13, 2023 16:59
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QuarkJets posted:The goalposts are moving so fast here that they may break the sound barrier, holy smokes Well the original question was how much money should a dealership make on one car sale, so yes we are way off the original topic. Looking at Volvo's US website it doesn't even look like they have a "BUY HERE ONLINE" function. It just gives you the option to send your preferred build to a local dealer for them to take over on like every other automakers website. There car subscription service doesn't even show any available cars online and just refers you to your local dealership. Crazy, a legacy automaker defaulting to their dealer network to support sales instead of trying to do it directly. Anyway EV related content my wife's new iX has returned about 2.75mi/kwh over her first two weeks of ownership with mostly short and local trips with her taking absolutely no consideration to driving efficiently. She hasn't started using the high brake regen mode yet so really not bad considering the EPA rated range is calculated off of an efficiency of ~3mi/kwh. kill me now fucked around with this message at 17:18 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 13, 2023 17:16
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I'm getting kind of hype for the ioniq 5n pricing/availability announcement/unveiling (july), I could see myself getting an EV9 as a kid/dog hauler and an ioniq 5n as a hoonmobile  Just drifting everywhere I just much prefer the 5's looks to the EV6
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May 15, 2023 18:14
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priznat posted:I'm getting kind of hype for the ioniq 5n pricing/availability announcement/unveiling (july), I could see myself getting an EV9 as a kid/dog hauler and an ioniq 5n as a hoonmobile i assume it'll have non defeatable TCS
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May 15, 2023 18:32
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quote:Hyundai has programmed in a simulated gearshift feature lmao
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May 15, 2023 18:34
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Don't CVTs do that too?
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May 15, 2023 18:36
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priznat posted:I'm getting kind of hype for the ioniq 5n pricing/availability announcement/unveiling (july), I could see myself getting an EV9 as a kid/dog hauler and an ioniq 5n as a hoonmobile p sure the 5 is big enough to do both
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May 15, 2023 18:40
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Ok Comboomer posted:p sure the 5 is big enough to do both I thought about it but it's not really big enough to get the dog carriers in the back, and having a 3rd row (without dog carriers in) would be nice so the kids aren't all smushed together. Really an EV Carnival would be the dream.
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May 15, 2023 18:45
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priznat posted:Really an EV Carnival would be the dream. You'll see one as soon as an EV with a 150kWh battery can be sold at $30k, which is at least 5 years from now, I think.
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May 15, 2023 18:48
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I'm telling you right now, whoever is first to market with an EV add-on that makes it sound like a crapped out backfiring V6 is going to make a whole lot of money. Follow that up with a 2-stroke moped sound and you'll be a gazillionaire.
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May 15, 2023 18:59
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cruft posted:I'm telling you right now, whoever is first to market with an EV add-on that makes it sound like a crapped out backfiring V6 is going to make a whole lot of money. Do you mean from the factory? Otherwise, there's plenty of kits you can buy to add exhaust noises to EVs, especially to Tesla cars.
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May 15, 2023 19:11
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Ngl a fake tach would tickle my nostalgia bone for like 2 weeks and then I would turn it off and never think of it again.
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May 15, 2023 19:11
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priznat posted:Ngl a fake tach would tickle my nostalgia bone for like 2 weeks and then I would turn it off and never think of it again. A real tach that showed motor RPM would be fun. I think most EVs have a power output gauge or display that's available which could also scratch your itch on that front.
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May 15, 2023 19:35
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My Energica has a tach showing rpm, kW output, and battery temp. I wish more EVs did this.
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May 15, 2023 19:45
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priznat posted:
I've seen one of these on the road https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/maximum-intelligence-ldv-mifa-9-is-new-zealand-s-first-all-electric-people-mover/ Pretty big, not very powerful though and the battery is 'just' 90kWh
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May 15, 2023 20:02
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Nfcknblvbl posted:My Energica has a tach showing rpm, kW output, and battery temp. I wish more EVs did this. Battery temp is an interesting one, would love to see that on our Bolt. If I had time, could be a fun weekend project to do an old pod-style gauge on the A-Pillar and get the temp via CAN (it's got to be sent to some ECU right???).
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May 15, 2023 20:02
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Say you got rear ended in an EV. How likely is it that the at-fault insurance company will pay for an EV?
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May 15, 2023 20:11
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QuarkJets posted:Say you got rear ended in an EV. How likely is it that the at-fault insurance company will pay for an EV? Zero. I was given a lovely chevy impala in place of my model 3 performance when I was rear ended. I asked them for a leaf or even a phev, they said nope you're going with gas.
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May 15, 2023 20:16
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cruft posted:I'm telling you right now, whoever is first to market with an EV add-on that makes it sound like a crapped out backfiring V6 is going to make a whole lot of money. Abarth 500e scorpionissima has a woofer/speaker set in the back, making fiat 131 tc noises when pushing the throttle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPgshfpxrlA&t=593s SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 20:49
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movax posted:Battery temp is an interesting one, would love to see that on our Bolt. If I had time, could be a fun weekend project to do an old pod-style gauge on the A-Pillar and get the temp via CAN (it's got to be sent to some ECU right???). If you have Torque Pro and a compatible OBD2 dongle then you can get this information. This website: https://allev.info/boltpids/ has a PID file that can be imported into Torque Pro or its iOS equivalent. For Volt owners in the thread.. MyGreenVolt is a nice app that shows this info for both Gen1 and Gen2 and will work with most of the cheap ELM based dongles.
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May 15, 2023 21:32
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So... Which one of you idiots is going to buy a VF8?
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May 15, 2023 22:20
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cruft posted:So... I went to the vinfast canada site a while back to see the VF9 and the fuckin thing is over $100k CDN lmao
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May 15, 2023 22:31
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cruft posted:So... I wanted to quote the funny bits of this article but the whole thing is funny bits so… https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-vinfast-vf8-electric-suv-first-drive-review/amp/
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May 15, 2023 22:38
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Just made my first service appointment for my MYP. The carbon spoiler is starting to come off(this is apparently a known issue) and it looks like the clear coat over the carbon is peeling off. Fired up the mobile app, shot them a few pics and have an appointment next tuesday for them to come replace. Quick and painless!
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