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Alkydere posted:There's so many It's not as bad as it sounds, now that I've looked it over. If I keep to a plan of covering about five races per update (maybe more considering a few on the list are 'these folks sure do exist' and nothing more) I should have this done in three or four posts.
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May 10, 2023 13:23
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Hope we can do option 2 after option 1 is done, maybe alternate updates? Option 1 has a current majority, I think, but I still want to learn about dragon hawks. 
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May 10, 2023 13:34
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Option 2
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May 10, 2023 13:37
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Cythereal posted:It's not as bad as it sounds, now that I've looked it over. If I keep to a plan of covering about five races per update (maybe more considering a few on the list are 'these folks sure do exist' and nothing more) I should have this done in three or four posts. It's probably not too bad if you keep it to WC1/2/3/base WoW. With each expansion adding more sentient races I could see that clugging up more and more posts.
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May 10, 2023 15:30
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's probably not too bad if you keep it to WC1/2/3/base WoW. With each expansion adding more sentient races I could see that clugging up more and more posts. Nah, I've looked over the whole list and it's really not as bad as you'd think. A huge chunk of the 'new races' are just new flavors of elves and trolls and whatnot that I've either already covered or will cover in the future as part of other posts. Like the three different variants of tauren that I'll cover when I make the tauren lore post in 3.
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May 10, 2023 15:32
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Ok, speaking of murlocs I remember this video/cartoon with a song that went 'I wish I were a murloc... MRRGGLLGELGL' and I cannot find it for the life of me. Did I hallucinate it?
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May 10, 2023 18:31
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Sounds like one of a couple parodies of "If I Were a Rich Man" from Fiddler on the Roof. There's a Lovecraft-themed one called "If I Were a Deep One," and a quick Youtube search just now also turned up, "If I Had a Murloc." Didn't find any cartoon ones, though.
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May 10, 2023 18:40
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Ahh I might've mistaken the cartoon stylings of wow in my head... And had vs was
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May 10, 2023 19:10
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:Ok, speaking of murlocs I remember this video/cartoon with a song that went 'I wish I were a murloc... MRRGGLLGELGL' and I cannot find it for the life of me. Did I hallucinate it? You are probably thinking of I Am Murloc by the inhouse band Tauren Chieftains.
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May 11, 2023 00:33
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As someone who has spent the past 30 years wondering "why do the sheep explode?" I'm going to vote for option 2.
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May 11, 2023 20:24
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Meaty Ore posted:As someone who has spent the past 30 years wondering "why do the sheep explode?" I'm going to vote for option 2. I support this opinion. I enjoyed making critters explode many times in WC2. I also enjoyed using critters as target practice on occasion to get used to a new unit. On occasion I did wonder- why sheep, why seals, why other critters? Perhaps we need a post on the critters before WC2 ends in this LP, for many players the critters were a very memorable part of WC2. They are also a fun but admittedly minor part of the game Cythreal has yet to really address in Lore.
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May 11, 2023 20:36
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Warcraft actually just has a wide range of species evolved from Discworld Swamp dragons. It's pretty simple stuff, really.
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May 11, 2023 20:39
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I'm going to vote for Option 1 but I very much hope we get both eventually.
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May 11, 2023 21:34
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While votes are pretty clearly for the minor race overview, dragonhawks were specifically requested so here's a bonus.   Dragonhawks are predatory avian creatures native to the northern parts of the Eastern Kingdoms. Whether they're actually related to dragons or not is unknown, but they do appear to be a hybrid of dragon and bird features, and appear to average around ten feet long for adults. Many have the ability to breathe fire, and we'll actually see these in Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne. Adult dragonhawks are capable of being trained as mounts, and bearing an armored rider into battle. As such, they're the standard mount for Quel'thalas' airborne forces, and the high elves who chose to remain loyal to the Alliance brought their own dragonhawk mounts with them into exile. Dragonhawks are available, if difficult to acquire, for both factions in World of Warcraft as mounts, and readily available to hunters as pets.  As it happens, I have a few dragonhawk mounts in my collection in WoW, which thankfully lets me access my full collection in free trial mode. This unarmored version is a sad testament to me having spent way too much time on the game, and this specific blue one is Alliance exclusive. The Horde of course gets a red copy. While most dragonhawks are found in Quel'thalas, small populations can be found down through Lordaeron, Stromgarde, and the Burning Steppes. My choice of the dragonhawk as the heraldry for Isidora Turan's family, a noble house who held land on the Burning Steppes, was inspired by the dragonhawk's striking predatory appearance, and rarity in the region. By what little lore has ever been established for them, dragonhawks are not particularly intelligent, they're just big, vicious flying predators.  This armored version is exclusive to the Horde in exchange for a long grind and competency at minigames.
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May 12, 2023 02:28
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Thx for the article on dragon hawks. I enjoyed it. I also appreciate the specific address of a requested creature. I can comfortably wait for a larger post on critters in general later, hopefully before WC2 is done. Also looking forward to the next update.
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May 12, 2023 02:44
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Horde 10: Plea Bargain This is another one for the 'this approximately did happen, but not quite as depicted' file.  In canon, this mission was carried out by Teron Gorefiend and Deathwing by themselves.  How Alterac obtained the Book of Medivh, or what their plan for it was, has never been explained.  Importantly, Teron Gorefiend negotiated directly with King Aiden Perenolde during the infiltration of Stormwind to obtain the Book in exchange for destroying the forces of Stromgarde and Lordaeron that had established martial law in Alterac.  The leaders of the Alliance had been unwilling to formally remove Aiden from his throne or actually annex Alterac, so their plan appears to have been to occupy Alterac, place Aiden under arrest in Stormwind, and hope the Alteraci came around.  Had someone like Azélie actually existed in the story - a member of Alterac's royal family with a history of proven allegiance to the Alliance - she almost certainly would have been used as a puppet queen or regent until the Alliance felt that the situation had stabilized. Followed, in all likelihood per European imperial politics as a model, compelling her marriage to someone from Lordaeron or Stromgarde to lead to the annexation of Alterac into that kingdom. Perhaps less Belgium or Switzerland as a model for Alterac as I'd envisioned, and more something like Burgundy or Brittany. Which would still fit the French name I picked for our anguished protagonist of the other campaign, really.  Aiden Perenolde would disappear from the story after this, and later materials talking about the period in between Warcraft 2 and 3 asserted that there was no one with a recognized claim to the throne of Alterac.  Given that during this time, Deathwing posed as a duke of Alterac who wished to join Lordaeron and tried to manipulate King Menethil into making him regent of Alterac and marrying the princess Calia Menethil to him, my assumption would be that Deathwing had Aiden Perenolde assassinated. But, well, when's the last time Warcraft's story ever gave a poo poo about the politics and people of Alterac?  In a cute touch, I actually have some Alterac knights under my command in this mission. I also just cheated immediately at the start of this mission. While this is a good lumber camp, there is no gold here.  My goal is to reach this mage in the southeast corner of the map and bring him to the circle in my base in the northwest corner of the map, and wipe out all Alliance forces.  Looking for gold, I run into the first of several platoons of Kul Tiran soldiers in the mountains.  There's a mine due southeast of the starting point.  And another further east. There's actually several gold mines dotted around the relatively open center of the map, allowing you to choose where to set up your main base.  While there are Kul Tiras forces near the Alterac base, they seem to be passive and don't actually threaten your objective.  The base proves to be an island separated by a river, with a Kul Tiras brown water squadron patrolling the river.  Stromgarde's base is in the northeast and features unusually elaborate defenses.  Lordaeron's base is in the southwest and is a more spread out affair.  Both bases will launch attacks aimed at the lumber camp you start with, rather than wherever you've set up your main base. The Kul Tiras forces appear to be entirely passive.  I mean, I started with dragons. I didn't really need to go through the pretenses of taking this mission seriously.  Once a certain amount of time has passed, Lordaeron and Stromgarde will start sending peasants to some of the gold mines on the map to build expansions.  In a rare display of foresight, I anticipated this and took appropriate measures.  In Stromgarde's case, that is. Lordaeron's mine, however, lies directly on the AI's attack path and an attack interrupts me.  On to business.  I maintain that it's a real shame that Alterac's been so underused by the Warcraft story, the notion's fascinated me for years.  A human kingdom willing to work with the Horde rather than the Alliance, and by all accounts the Horde actually dealt with Alterac fairly and honorably.  I have a sinking suspicion that when Blizzard made Warcraft 3, they actively wanted players to forget that there had in fact been willing cooperation between orcs and humans in the past.  It took several minutes of hearing combat sounds and "We're under attack!" before I figured out where I was actually being attacked. A UI indicator to show where you're being attacked is one of those little things that's become so standard in the RTS genre that I found myself really missing its absence from WC2.  What few snippets of lore we've gotten about Alterac in the last ten years or so of WoW have also been very interesting.  There's the implication that Alterac was home to a Titan site of some kind, and that the Alteraci people had a stronger cultural memory or mythology of the Titans than the rest of humanity.  And the story's run with the idea that Alterac was a tiny, militarily weak kingdom with a small population that spent its entire independent existence fighting to avoid losing that independence to their much larger, more powerful neighbors.  Someone at Blizzard recognizes the well of story potential here, along with my own reams of fanfic I wrote once upon a time about Alterac rejoining the Alliance in WoW and forcing the other human nations to reckon with their own history of misdeeds and problematic behavior.  This is a really obnoxious bit of padding here. You have no choice but to build a shipyard, build a tanker, build a derrick, and harvest enough oil to build a foundry and then build a transport so you can ferry a ground unit to the Alterac base and bring the mage back across the river.  No, rescuing the mage doesn't spawn a wave of Alliance attacks or any such thing.  Both in gameplay and story, this mission is a neat idea but underutilized.
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May 14, 2023 15:40
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Minor Race Compendium, Part One Okay, let's get the memes out of the way first.  Murlocs are a primitive but sapient race of semi-humanoid fish native to Azeroth's oceans. Many murloc tribes and clans fled from aggression and enslavement by the naga, Azeroth's primary undersea empire, towards land where they proved to be amphibious and have become a regular hazard to coastal regions and even rivers and lakes throughout Azeroth. That's it. That's all the lore. For reasons unknown to me, murlocs have become wildly popular with the fanbase of WoW to the point of becoming something of a mascot for the franchise. There is so much murloc merchandise, and they keep turning up in silly places like an alternate timeline where murlocs became Azeroth's dominant lifeform. I don't get it.  Jinyu are a stable offshoot of murlocs, those who dwelled in Pandaria and were exposed to the Titan energies in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. These murlocs became the jinyu, a race of humanoid fish with a distinct carp theme and a powerful affinity for arcane and elemental magic. The jinyu were the first of the great empires to rule Pandaria until they were overthrown and enslaved by the mogu, and afterwards joined with the rest of Pandaria to overthrow the Mogu Empire in turn. The jinyu are just as amphibious as their cousins, and developed a strict caste-based society where one's role in society was determined while still in the egg. Seen by the rest of Pandaria as wise and peaceful, the jinyu spent much of their post-mogu history seeking philosophical and magical enlightenment. This disposition meant that when the mists surrounding Pandaria were disrupted and Pandaria rejoined the wider world, the jinyu immediately gravitated towards the Alliance as allies and have been an infrequent but regular sight around the Alliance ever since. They also have an offshoot group of their own, the Ankoa, who moved fully into the deep ocean where they were all but destroyed by the naga empire and the remnants of the Ankoa became a bitter resistance movement waging a hopeless guerrilla war against the naga. Like their cousins, when the rest of the world went to war fully with the naga, the Ankoa sought out the Alliance as partners. In any talk of future new races to join either side, expect the Jinyu/Ankoa to be talked about as future members of the Alliance.  Gnolls are a race of hyena-like humanoids native to the Eastern Kingdoms of Azeroth, and appear to be a perpetual also-ran of that part of the world. Though sapient, the gnolls were displaced and sometimes outright eradicated by every race that encountered them, elves, humans, dwarves, and trolls alike. Though primitive and scattered in disorganized tribes, the gnolls have historically managed to occasionally amass in enough force behind a charismatic leader to force an outright war by one of their neighbors, the most recent being around a century before the events of the games and was destroyed by Stormwind. Gnolls are mostly known to the WoW player base for Hogger, the objective of a quest in WoW classic in the human starting zone. While the quest to kill Hogger was labeled as a solo quest, it was sufficiently overtuned versus vanilla's awful class design that Hogger became a meme among the player base in the vein of the Chuck Norris jokes popular with the fanbase at the time. This meme has kept Hogger and the gnolls coming back periodically despite the abject lack of anything interesting to them.  You no take candle! There, I said it, shut up. Kobolds are Warcraft's version of goblins as seen in most other fantasy settings: a primitive race of cave-dwelling, vaguely rat-like humanoids who mine away beneath the earth and periodically emerge to raid civilization or kill miners until adventurers to in and clean them out. Kobolds are speculated in-setting to be a further evolution/mutation of the troggs, somewhat more intelligent and civilized, and have their own Northrend offshoot known as snobolds. Yes, really. Kobolds reentered the meme conversation with the Legion expansion, where their characteristic candles were given a new context as the kobolds fearing a specific and real magical darkness that only light could keep at bay. In a series of sidequests, players confirmed that this was real and a manifestation of the Old Gods. Then the players killed that particular minion of the Old Gods underneath Highmountain. Whether this was one being who terrified the entire race or whether there are more lurking in the dark places of Azeroth is unknown (almost certainly yes, suitable for whenever Blizzard wants to throw one in for a sidequest).  For anyone doubting that Blizzard actively courts furries as part of the fanbase, I present the Vulpera. The Vulpera are the only playable race I'll be including in this compendium, because their appeal is as simple as their lore is shallow: they're cutesy desert fox people. Vulpera are a semi-nomadic race native to the deserts of Zandalar, and have a close association with llamas as beasts of burden. The vulpera were historically treated by pretty much everyone in the world with indifference, and what little aesthetics and history they have suggest parallels to any of the nomadic peoples of the Middle East and North Africa like the Bedouins. The moment the vulpera were shown in previews for Battle for Azeroth, people clamored for them to be playable and Blizzard duly delivered them to the Horde with that oft-talked about questline where an orc trying to unionize the Horde's peons is revealed to be a power-hungry tyrant who wants to use the peons to overthrow the Horde and install him as warchief. The vulpera defuse the revolution by throwing a pizza party for the peons. Depending on which side you play, the vulpera's history with the Alliance is either the Alliance throwing firecrackers to scare away vulpera thieves from stealing Alliance supplies, or the Alliance butchering the vulpera with evil magic and herding the survivors into death camps. According to Steve Danuser the truth gets lost in the fog of war so who can say what really happened?
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May 14, 2023 15:41
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Despite not having played past Lich King I maintain that the Alliance have pretty much gotten the better new additions race-wise after Burning Crusade. Worgen are more interesting than Goblins and just about every 'race variant' has been more interesting on the Alliance side. The one exception might be Void Elf vs Highborne.
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May 14, 2023 15:45
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Is there any particular reason the gnolls are always evil and to be fought and genocided by everyone? Or is it just because they were always evil and to be fought in D&D?  I also agree that Alterac is a super untapped vein of interesting content.
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May 14, 2023 16:19
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Cythereal posted:For reasons unknown to me, murlocs have become wildly popular with the fanbase of WoW to the point of becoming something of a mascot for the franchise. There is so much murloc merchandise, and they keep turning up in silly places like an alternate timeline where murlocs became Azeroth's dominant lifeform. They also appear often in mechanical discussions as a result of being a bit of an early game difficulty spike due to the density of their camps, bunched up against the shoreline where a single murloc fleeing at 20% health can easily aggro the rest. Their abilities also trend towards frost magic for their casters and hunter/rogue poisons for their melee fighters, which means a lot of slows and freezes, making it hard to both prevent and escape an aggro cascade, which is associated with their distinctive aggro noise.
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May 14, 2023 16:24
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PurpleXVI posted:Is there any particular reason the gnolls are always evil and to be fought and genocided by everyone? Or is it just because they were always evil and to be fought in D&D? They're there and not a part of your faction so the default response from everyone in Warcraft is genocidal violence. That's all it is.
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May 14, 2023 16:27
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ApplesandOranges posted:Despite not having played past Lich King I maintain that the Alliance have pretty much gotten the better new additions race-wise after Burning Crusade. Worgen are more interesting than Goblins and just about every 'race variant' has been more interesting on the Alliance side. The one exception might be Void Elf vs Highborne. While the Horde got the Vulpera, the Alliance got diaper gnomes.
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May 14, 2023 16:36
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PurpleXVI posted:Is there any particular reason the gnolls are always evil and to be fought and genocided by everyone? Or is it just because they were always evil and to be fought in D&D? I think there is a Warcraft 9-12 childrens book that has a friendly gnoll party member, but who knows how canon those are considered to be.
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May 14, 2023 16:42
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ApplesandOranges posted:Despite not having played past Lich King I maintain that the Alliance have pretty much gotten the better new additions race-wise after Burning Crusade. Worgen are more interesting than Goblins and just about every 'race variant' has been more interesting on the Alliance side. The one exception might be Void Elf vs Highborne. We spent what felt like 2/3rds of Legion in this super cool city of Suramar, doing quests and helping the resistance free the city from those who made pacts with the Burning Legion. It even gets taken back by a coalition of Nightborne, High Elves, Blood Elves and Night Elves. As a reward, the writers made some bullshit move to have Tyrande insult the Nightborne, so they joined the Horde. While the Alliance got space goats, but even more holy! With a useless spaceship that had zero character as a base. This honestly made me quite mad, and I rarely get mad at video games.
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May 14, 2023 16:44
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There are about two friendly gnolls that I can think of in the game. Meatball, a bonus follower you can get in a couple of expansions, even somehow getting lost in the deepest part of the Maw in Shadowlands. And the gnoll Mon-Ark in Dragonflight, a gnoll who has declared themselves to be the new ruler of the gnolls and tasks us with helping them stop the gnolls from being corrupted by the Decay magic they have recently begun using.
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May 14, 2023 16:49
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PurpleXVI posted:Is there any particular reason the gnolls are always evil and to be fought and genocided by everyone? Or is it just because they were always evil and to be fought in D&D?
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May 14, 2023 16:55
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Dragonflight has so far presented it as Gnoll culture being somewhat difficult to break out of once they're fully grown, because they have surprisingly strict large group social culture built around satisfying their high protein intake requirements and a lack of care for where that meat comes from, coupled with an inherent or at least easy alignment to the magic of decay. Notably, Mon-Ark attempting to create a new cultural norm is one of the times we get a fully allied Gnoll, but there's also an example of an injured gnoll child being taken in by non-Gnolls and showing that there isn't anything inherently evil about Gnolls, they just have a culture that cannot coexist with most others.
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May 14, 2023 17:11
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His name is "Mon-Ark?" I've seen better names in a RIFTs supplement.
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May 14, 2023 17:44
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SirPhoebos posted:His name is "Mon-Ark?" Mon-Ark even has a nice little crown they made for themselves.
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May 14, 2023 17:49
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I'd bet half the murloc popularity is because "basically kobolds, but fish." Even if they're kind of assholes to fight, the put-upon little cannon fodder races end up popular for much the same reasons.
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May 14, 2023 18:20
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Shoutout to Murloc RPG from the days of ye old Newgrounds.
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May 14, 2023 18:27
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SirPhoebos posted:His name is "Mon-Ark?" You can ask them if they are supposed to be a king or queen, and they just say that they are the Mon-Ark.
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May 14, 2023 19:15
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SirPhoebos posted:His name is "Mon-Ark?" It's their title, I don't think they ever give us their name.
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May 14, 2023 19:17
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BisbyWorl posted:Shoutout to Murloc RPG from the days of ye old Newgrounds. Holy poo poo I had forgotten about those games... I wasted so many hours on them.
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May 14, 2023 20:13
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My honest opinion on the "Fog of War obscures the truth" thing with the Vulpera is honestly that both events are true. Vulpera are opportunistic vicious scavengers, but they're that way because that's how they've learned they have to be in order to survive the desert they live in. It's their culture and their main means of survival. But, while the Alliance Champions (aka players) are directed to the more light-handed tactics to scare them away, there are darker elements to every side in a war. So yeah, the Alliance did not take kindly to the Vulpera thieving and scavenging from their supplies, and took some extreme, heavy-handed measures to deal with them, but the Alliance players were not involved in this particular series of deeds. Just because the player doesn't see their faction doing it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. There's a difference between poo poo happening off-screen, and the same event being depicted two different ways depending on who's narrating. THAT'S when that whole "fog of war obscures the truth" thing comes into play.
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May 14, 2023 20:37
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Murlocs are goofy and make funny noises, that's the appeal
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May 14, 2023 20:37
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BlazetheInferno posted:My honest opinion on the "Fog of War obscures the truth" thing with the Vulpera is honestly that both events are true. Vulpera are opportunistic vicious scavengers, but they're that way because that's how they've learned they have to be in order to survive the desert they live in. It's their culture and their main means of survival. But, while the Alliance Champions (aka players) are directed to the more light-handed tactics to scare them away, there are darker elements to every side in a war. So yeah, the Alliance did not take kindly to the Vulpera thieving and scavenging from their supplies, and took some extreme, heavy-handed measures to deal with them, but the Alliance players were not involved in this particular series of deeds. I prefer to pretend I can play a side in WoW that isn't committing blatant war crimes. But, well, that kind of grimdark bullshit was everywhere in Legion and Battle for Azeroth, and was, with one incident in particular, the main reason I quit the game. I felt there wasn't anyone I could play who I felt were genuinely good guys I could root for. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 14, 2023 |
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May 14, 2023 21:03
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Murloc and kobold popularity stems from something that Blizzard seemed to ignore for a long time - that Warcraft works best when it's not deadly serious about itself 100% of the time. That's partly why Dragonflight feels so good compared to BfA and Shadowlands - its story is literally Power Rangers but with DRAGONS, and it has quests about dumb but adorable dog or rescuing duckling instead of MORALLY GRAY characters and genocides. Also it's nice to see designated cute race not being based on mammals.
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May 14, 2023 21:29
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My understanding of the Vulpera stuff was that the Alliance was targeting them because they were transporting supplies for the Horde. They had an Alliance commander try to soften this by saying they weren't harming any of the Vulpera, only burning their supply wagons, but this ignores the fact that those wagons are also the Vulpera's homes.
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May 14, 2023 21:52
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The Mission- This can be a rough one if you're not cheating. When I tried that, I usually went for expanding my base, not creating two bases. The Dragons scouted for me in the beginning, then I set up a Town Hall near each Gold Mine I found. Meanwhile a perimeter of Farms (can't build walls in single player, farms are tougher anyway), and Guard Towers went up in front of each enemy base to slow the Alliance approaching me. I also had some Dragons and Death Wagons on roving artillery with Trolls & Ogres for mop-up. I usually went for the white base last- their defenses make their expansion to Griffons (it will come if you allow it) more difficult for them. The more spread-out red base needs to die first so they don't take advantage of their room to expand. I never made it through the mission without cheating, though. The constant attacks left me bloody and I never could get my perimeter up fast enough. So, cheating remained the order of the day. Alterac- I liked the idea of this nation too. Pity that Blizzard didn't roll with it. Even today cross faction guilds got problems, see this article- https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertain...skbarhover&ei=4 I am willing to accept that when pitting factions against each other, it is useful to segregate the races amongst them. But that's what RTS games are about more than MMOs in the opinion of this former MMO level designer. But whatever, I don't work for Blizzard or often play their games. Nor do I plan for that to change any time soon. Murlocs- I like fish people in general and the carp offshoot sound pretty cool. I can accept their popularity. Kobolds- Funny little buggers. So, they're rat here and not lizard like in D&D. I think they were rat originally there too, maybe. Gnolls- These guys are based on hyenas and canines, so they're usually chaotic evil in fantasy settings. Check out Jim Butcher's Codex Alera for one alternative alignment version of Gnolls that was IMO pretty well-done. Vulpera- I like this race also, they seem funny. I wonder if there is a desert themed WoW guild out there with some Vulpera, vulture-based bird-people, and other desert animal like races. 
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May 14, 2023 22:24
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