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Let's go Manson! E: bad snipe, and just saw the mod redirect to appropriate thread. Sorry.
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May 13, 2023 04:48
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Charlz Guybon posted:Hope she just keeps hammering him Called it! Trump is going to have to sell an awful lot of state secrets to pay for this, since you know he's likely to repeat this at every Town Hall.
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May 13, 2023 08:51
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Charlz Guybon posted:Hope she just keeps hammering him Infinite money glitch.
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May 13, 2023 14:24
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For Trump legal and political issues go hand in hand. Trump isn't trying to avoid the courts, his motive is to be reelected president and to do that he needs to appeal to and solidify his base around him. His base has already assimilated Trump losing a defamation case as Trump winning the case because the Jury didn't say her raped her, just that he held her down in a dressing room and stuck his fingers in her which is not rape and so obviously this is all a witch hunt by corrupt democrats and corrupt judges. Trump ignoring court orders and doing the nasty poo poo he does and getting away with it is him furthering his "tough guy" identity with his base. Paying a fine is him getting away with it because of his other persistent illusion with his base that he has the wealth of Croesus and his 7th level chess business acumen just recoups any losses instantly never mind the constant and sometimes illegal begging for money. Being in court gets Trump into the media where he can leak stuff to spin it to his benefit and demand money and that is the game.
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May 13, 2023 15:31
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Have they noticed that it takes ten months for anything to go to trial, or are they just going to keep "building ironclad cases" until February of 2025? That the phrase "leading presidential candidate" has even been accepted is a strong signal that the stupid aren't going to get their heads out of their asses before the 2024 election, giving even more support to firing up the dozen cases and hundreds of indictments today... while there's still a hope of a number of guilty verdicts being reached before autumn 24.
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May 13, 2023 15:54
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Have they noticed that it takes ten months for anything to go to trial, or are they just going to keep "building ironclad cases" until February of 2025? They're waiting for him to die.
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May 14, 2023 00:37
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Then charge him! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna83959 quote:Trump's comments on Mar-a-Lago documents 'like red meat to a prosecutor'
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May 14, 2023 02:14
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Every time I get through some gassed up "this is HUGE legal trouble for trump, this is IMMEDIATELY prosecutable, it is one TRILLION percent illegal according to spengwicker county v. a box of Spencer's Gifts novelty penis pasta" article, I'm like great all you did is further reinforce how difficult it is to conclude he doesn't benefit from a clearly different system and standard of legal accountability to be able to still be out shittin on his gold toilet after over half a decade of repeatedly stocking up on felony bullshit advertised clearly on tv
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May 14, 2023 04:24
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Concur, with the skepticism. If you have an unsolved series of murders and someone goes on TV and claims they did it, you investigate. If you have a charge sheet the size of a presidential library and they go on TV and admit they may have "taken" a fork from the WH dining room, you realize that won't be admissible as evidence anyway and you need to prevent the furtherance of the crimes. This doesn't end well for the country (in my opinion) without a finding of guilt on at least one significant count. If he dies first, it'll be 25yr of "they never found anything, oh look how persecuted he was, our savior!", which is exactly where they're at right now. If they bring up 100 charges and he's found guilty on all of them, it's clearly rigged/"witch hunt", or they wasted everyone's time in the name of "perfect court case". When he's found guilty of half of them, lawmakers have a chance to fix the gaps and the minions can whine about "but he was innocent of point an AR-15 at Pence!", but that'll die out quickly compared to "poo poo we have to think about the types of criminals who get our votes". Maybe authors with more social and political psych skills have written about this online? (And rambling, someone had to be first. If it wasn't T, it would have been W or F or some other R down the road. This T poo poo is drowning out January 6. The country is still at war against domestic terrorism. Rs wanted patriot acts, so let's see everyone near or in the capitol chipped and tagged and tracked!  )
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May 14, 2023 14:57
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Staluigi posted:Every time I get through some gassed up "this is HUGE legal trouble for trump, this is IMMEDIATELY prosecutable, it is one TRILLION percent illegal according to spengwicker county v. a box of Spencer's Gifts novelty penis pasta" article, I'm like great all you did is further reinforce how difficult it is to conclude he doesn't benefit from a clearly different system and standard of legal accountability to be able to still be out shittin on his gold toilet after over half a decade of repeatedly stocking up on felony bullshit advertised clearly on tv Jean Carroll has bigger balls than any prosecutor in the nation. Nothing is holding them back that didn't apply to her, worse.
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May 14, 2023 18:18
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Jack Smiths team has issued hundreds of subpoenas and had multiple court battles over appearances, some which have only been adjudicated favorably within the last few weeks. Scavino, Miller and Meadows appeals failed just in April. Like, I get that it’s hard to see movement in a very secret investigation but you can’t really expect an indictment of Trump while the key witnesses were still fighting being deposed. I think that Trump will be indicted in Georgia, Michigan and Federally before the year is out and it won’t just be him, it will include dozens of other high ranking state and national republicans, some of them current office holders, and members of his White House staff and campaign staff and others. I also think there will be several senate and house members whose criminal behavior will be documented even though they may skate out on a speech and debate exception depending on how a current battle over what “corruptly” means in this context. I don’t think people fully appreciate the scope of these investigations or how thoroughly the legal ground is being set in preparation for this.
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May 14, 2023 19:14
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Murgos posted:Jack Smiths team has issued hundreds of subpoenas and had multiple court battles over appearances, some which have only been adjudicated favorably within the last few weeks. Scavino, Miller and Meadows appeals failed just in April. I’ll admit that I’m just damned impatient. I want to see the man tried for his crimes, especially as to how we have his admissions of guilt and the blatant evidence that already exists out there. If it lasts until 2024, will they then have a decorum attack and pull back until the election is over?
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May 14, 2023 20:02
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Justice delayed is, I dunno, something something or whatever.
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May 14, 2023 21:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Jean Carroll has bigger balls than any prosecutor in the nation. Nothing is holding them back that didn't apply to her, worse. Besides the fact that the burden of proof for criminal prosecutions is higher than civil suits?
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May 15, 2023 09:13
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V-Men posted:Besides the fact that the burden of proof for criminal prosecutions is higher than civil suits? The burden of proof is not what's holding any of these back. Many of Trump's crimes were committed in public, often on video in front of large crowds, and he usually confesses them when asked because he is incapable of admitting that anything he did might have been wrong. The issue is prosecutorial cowardice. See, e.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/nyregion/trump-investigation-felony-resignation-pomerantz.html. Prosecutors aren't willing to roll the dice on a case they *might* lose, and any prosecution of Trump is a *might*-lose case because you can always end up with a chud or two on the jury who wouldn't convict him if an angel came down from heaven into the courtroom with a flaming sword to testify. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 12:11 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 12:05
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The angel is just more evidence of the deep state conspiracy against Trump.
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May 15, 2023 12:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The burden of proof is not what's holding any of these back. Many of Trump's crimes were committed in public, often on video in front of large crowds, and he usually confesses them when asked because he is incapable of admitting that anything he did might have been wrong. When you come at the king you best not miss. --Omar Little Basically two horrible things would happen to the prosecutor if he's indicted, brought to trial and found not guilty. a) His career as a prosecutor would be over. b) His career as a prosecutor would be over.
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May 15, 2023 13:31
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Cimber posted:When you come at the king you best not miss. --Omar Little That, and there's a non-trivial chance that some crazed moron would try to assassinate the prosecutor. But, like, that's the job. Have some courage. The answer to this problem is multiple parallel prosecutions; only one of them has to win to put him away for the rest of his life. But each individual prosecutor is too scared for their careers.
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May 15, 2023 13:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The burden of proof is not what's holding any of these back. Many of Trump's crimes were committed in public, often on video in front of large crowds, and he usually confesses them when asked because he is incapable of admitting that anything he did might have been wrong. Given the success of the prosecutions against the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers, I don't think there's a large concern over being able to field a jury in Washington, DC that is open to the idea that Trump is guilty of a crime. I'm not a federal prosecutor, but I didn't think it'd be as easy as taking a video supercut of his public statements and saying case closed. At least for the classified docs case, you need a strong trail leading to the fact that he knew those documents were leaving the White House and going to Mar A Lago, and him saying "I didn't do it, but if i did, it'd be legal" is not smoking gun evidence.
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May 15, 2023 13:56
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Cimber posted:When you come at the king you best not miss. --Omar Little I think it'd also be pretty bad for the country as a whole if Trump were prosecuted, only to be found "not guilty". Prosecuting a former president, who's still politically active, for acts he committed while president? It needs to be absolutely ironclad, to reinforce that those acts were actually very very bad, and also to reduce the chance it's seen as politically-motivated.
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May 15, 2023 14:10
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Also, just playing Devil's Advocate, but going at Trump and losing potentially hurts ever case in the future. Losing a case obviously has the benefit that he can spin it as being all a part of an unjustified witch hunt against him. And if the case was even tangential connected to another criminal case, Trump suddenly has knowledge of another prosecutors evidence before they are ready to run and it might scupper. To give an example, R. Kelly was charged in 2002 over a sex tape of (allegedly) him having sex with an (alleged) minor. He was acquitted (one report I read on the case was the prosecution basically kept playing the sex tape and hoped that would be enough to get the jury to convict). Kelly's acquital definitely made it far harder to bring future cases against him until the evidence became overwhelming.
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May 15, 2023 14:16
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Aww drat Trump would say it's a witch hunt? Well that would certainly be an escalation from now, definitely can't let that happen. There is certainly a need for getting a solid case. The time needed for that has pretty much passed, if we go into year 3 without him being charged its pure cowardice Piell fucked around with this message at 14:29 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 14:27
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We really need to stop making decisions based on the idea that "the other side will use this against us." Trump and his ilk will happily make things up out of whole cloth. They don't need facts or reality at all. So you might as well just do the right thing and call out their lies as lies (stop using "alternative facts", "both sides", and other weasel words. Lies are lies.), and prosecute the hell out of their many crimes. We don't let a gang leader off the hook because they keep committing crimes so fast the prosecutors can't keep up. Trump is just a gang leader with a large, and largely cowardly, gang. Prosecute him.
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May 15, 2023 14:31
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"we can't do x, the GOP will use it to abuse the system when they gain power!" Cut to --> "The GOP did x anyway and are abusing the system" Every loving time
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May 15, 2023 14:44
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Piell posted:Aww drat Trump would say it's a witch hunt? Well that would certainly be an escalation from now, definitely can't let that happen. Ynglaur posted:We really need to stop making decisions based on the idea that "the other side will use this against us." Trump and his ilk will happily make things up out of whole cloth. They don't need facts or reality at all. So you might as well just do the right thing and call out their lies as lies (stop using "alternative facts", "both sides", and other weasel words. Lies are lies.), and prosecute the hell out of their many crimes. Judge Schnoopy posted:"we can't do x, the GOP will use it to abuse the system when they gain power!" So are all of you of the mind that there is no worse level of republican governmental disruption that could result from a not guilty verdict of Trump? Don't people on this website constantly compare the Dems to Charlie Brown, getting the football pulled out right at the last second by Lucy? Maybe the Dems should start out with all the slam dunk cases, and when they've bagged those they can circle back to the less tempting fruit. More than anything the Dems need to stop beating themselves by acting loving stupid . That includes providing Trump with additional ammunition for his insane rhetoric.
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May 15, 2023 14:55
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Grip it and rip it posted:So are all of you of the mind that there is no worse level of republican governmental disruption that could result from a not guilty verdict of Trump? There are absolutely worse levels of government disruption from a not guilty verdict of Trump. An insurrection, for example. The part I bolded above is where I get hung up. The Dems don't need to "give him ammunition." He'll make his own. So don't make decisions based on how Trump might position something. Just do the right thing. Yes, doing the right thing probably includes having a very, very strong assurance of a conviction, and I realize that takes time.
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May 15, 2023 15:01
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Piell posted:
I think this is one of those things where federal investigations take a hella long time. It took two years to investigate, try, and convict 3 separate groups for seditious conspiracy, and that's only because they were dumb enough to plan their stuff by phone. On the other hand is a guy who is paranoid enough to almost never use his own phone when he wants to just talk to people and has mastered double-talking to stay in legal gray areas. That's a hell lot more work.
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May 15, 2023 15:07
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V-Men posted:"I didn't do it, but if i did, it'd be legal" is not smoking gun evidence. IIRC this is basically what Reagan did regarding the whole iran/contra deal
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May 15, 2023 15:27
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Piell posted:Aww drat Trump would say it's a witch hunt? Well that would certainly be an escalation from now, definitely can't let that happen. Why? It's not like they're sitting on their hands and doing nothing. The investigation has been moving along this entire time. Maybe not as fast as you'd like, but there's a large number of people involved in all this, many of whom have good lawyers and a lot of poo poo they don't really want to admit to. If you were hoping for the DoJ to prevent Trump from running again, that's a hope you're going to have to give up on. It's been pretty clear for a while that it was unlikely they're gonna have him in jail by Nov 2024, and he can still run even if he's in jail.
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May 15, 2023 15:47
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Any and all cases and investigations against him (including ones that have "moved along", complete with breathless predictions from liberal-leaning media) so far have almost exclusively amounted to that "ah, well, nevertheless" comic. This latest one will be no different. Any actual meaningful consequences of any kind just straight up aren't happening for Trump. There are 2 systems of justice in this country, this is pretty well established. mutata fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 15:54
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mutata posted:Any and all cases and investigations against him (including ones that have "moved along", complete with breathless predictions from liberal-leaning media) so far have almost exclusively amounted to that "ah, well, nevertheless" comic. This latest one will be no different. Actual events have already proved this wrong. Please stop posting this sort of doomerism bullshit. Trump already has criminal indictments against him in the NY tax fraud case, he's already had a jury unanimously find him guilty in the sex harassment case. You're just blowing nonsense. The other cases against him continue to move forward. They're complicated, with lots of loose ends to tie up. They're coming eventually. You have unrealistic expectations for how fast justice works.
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May 15, 2023 16:07
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Levitate posted:IIRC this is basically what Reagan did regarding the whole iran/contra deal Having a human cane toad covering things up also helped. Which is also why Trump used him.
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May 15, 2023 16:24
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 Justice in this country works really, *REALLY* god drat fast if you're not a rich, white guy politician. So fast that a lot of people end up dead on the street before they get their day in court. Even if they do actually manage to get to a trial it's frequently after spending the intervening time in pre-trial detention possibly without even a lawyer up to that point.
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May 15, 2023 16:26
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Deteriorata posted:Actual events have already proved this wrong. Please stop posting this sort of doomerism bullshit. Yes, and these things are good. But to the OPs point, can you point to any non-monetary consequences Trump has faced to date? He walked out of his arraignment. He flew to his golf course in Scotland during the Carroll trial. He's currently living it up however he feels while "on trial" (next step dates months away) in NY. Nothing has changed his day to day life. He continues committing crimes and lying in public. He's still running for office and the GOP is paralyzed to speak out against his candidacy. The mafia lord continues to rule his fiefdom and collect money from his loyal subjects.
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May 15, 2023 17:45
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Deteriorata posted:Actual events have already proved this wrong. Please stop posting this sort of doomerism bullshit. I think the OP is right and also think it's not doomerism to notice that very very few rich people ever suffer for their crimes. In Trump's case, every single charge or court case is just further truth to his base that the Deep State is out to get him and proof of selective prosecution by a supposedly bunch of very far left, liberal members of the motherfucking FBI of all things. His followers double down on this poo poo and Donald knows it. He's pretty dumb but seems to understand how to game publicity and things like that. CNN just gave him 90 minutes to talk his unique brand of bullshit. In a sane and just world, he'd be immediately disqualified and laughed out of the loving room as a viable presidential candidate but I still think he can win next year.
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May 15, 2023 18:12
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Deteriorata posted:Trump already has criminal indictments against him in the NY tax fraud case, he's already had a jury unanimously find him guilty in the sex harassment case. The money he lost from the sex harassment case is nothing to him and will be paid for by donations and campaign funds.
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May 15, 2023 18:18
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bird food bathtub posted:
Federal investigations of multi-year conspiracies to take over the country with the aid of numerous highly-placed officials tend to go pretty slow regardless of how much money the main mastermind has. Seriously, when comparing Trump to a guy who shoplifted some poo poo from Wal-Mart or mildly annoyed a cop, you have to realize that there are differences between those cases besides "one is rich, the other is poor".
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May 15, 2023 18:38
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Deteriorata posted:Actual events have already proved this wrong. Please stop posting this sort of doomerism bullshit. Actual events have not proved any of this, and my post was the most milquetoast critique of the American justice system in the 21st century. I completely reject that my expectations are "unrealistic", and my criticism is not merely about "abloo bloo why is this taking so long?" Trump has quite literally gotten away with MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CRIME, and I'm only talking about the cases that have either already wrapped or were smothered in the cradle. American government, law, politicians, and for the most part population are content to let this person in particular do whatever he wants, when he wants, to whomever he wants, and no one has the loving balls and the authority at the same time to do anything about it. Period. lol, pull your head out.
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May 15, 2023 18:41
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Judge Schnoopy posted:He continues committing crimes and lying in public. He's still running for office and the GOP is paralyzed to speak out against his candidacy. The mafia lord continues to rule his fiefdom and collect money from his loyal subjects. As has already been mentioned, these would still happen even if he were found guilty and imprisoned immediately for the rest of his life. Prisoners can still communicate and lie in public. Prisoners can still run for office. Prisoners can still lead political parties. Prisoners can still fundraise. Nothing you are demanding happen as a result of his criminal trials can happen as a result of criminal trials in the United States. (Technically, a court might be able to prevent him from communicating certain things publicly, but judges almost always refuse to issue prior restraint orders in general, especially broad ones, not least because the Supreme Court has ruled that they must demonstrate inevitable, direct, immediate damage to the US as a result of that speech.)
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May 15, 2023 18:46
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If he gets put in a fed prison under SAMs, he wouldn't be doing much of any of that. Granted I think that is extraordinarily unlikely to transpire. But there are options for preventing that kind of speech and communication from prison.
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May 15, 2023 18:50
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