(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Flavahbeast posted:CNN sez one was damaged: I wonder how many total Patriot systems have been made total?
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May 16, 2023 18:07
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Over 1000 launchers
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May 16, 2023 18:12
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HonorableTB posted:I am fully aware of that but this also isn't D&D and therefore I am not going into a 10 paragraph dissertation about the intricacies of the Soviet corruption and special privilege system when I can make a shorthand joke about it instead. ... and still get a sixer because someone disagrees with your references, or what conclusion you drew from the said materials, and online newsfeed from different politically non-aligned news channels. But yeah, Tsar Putin's little looting-based mob empire isn't and wasn't even close to the level of pure evil that Soviet Union was capable and committed to unleashing against its own citizens and the people of their neighboring countries. One of the greatest tricks SU ever pulled was to successfully play the victim card after WW2, and as a reward got to keep all the neighbors they managed to occupy during the war, and brutally subjugate and abuse them for the next 40 years. And that has nothing to do on messing up the Inner Asian climate around the Aral Sea, or Stalin's purges, or even the "run of the mill" everyday brutality towards people who were thinking too loud, or in the wrong place at the wrong time. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 18:14
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Randarkman posted:Corruption in the Soviet Union was far worse than just that. Even so it is astonishing how the things the USSR were world leaders in (like crystal growth) ended up being raided and totally destroyed by modern Russia. And this is with the USSR's greatest crystal scientist, AA Sternberg, getting kicked out of the institute he founded because he got into a scientific argument with a chemist who had connections. Sternberg 'lied on his resume' by not reporting that he had been one of the engineering students recruited by the government to help build the Volga canal, which was suspicious because the workers were a hotbed of dissent and suspicious figures (the Gulag inmates government had used as forced labor). Eventually someone even higher said "I have an important crystal project, get me your best man", the other scientist said "okay, but he's doing apartment construction right now", and the highup said "why the hell is he doing that" and reassigned him back. Like this is a low loving bar to be less competent than. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 18:23 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 18:18
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Captain Splendid posted:Have a look at grimreapers on YouTube, they do a bunch of naval warfare setups in DCS which, while not real, gives a decent idea of what it's like. Was this demonstrated in their campaign as Kekistan fighting against Antifa SJWs?  Very much a derail, but Grim Reapers suck poo poo https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/i4qcig/a_running_total_of_all_the_crap_the_grim_reapers/
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May 16, 2023 18:22
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Russia is looking more and more like one of those fictional societies that could never work out in real life, like the Drow.
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May 16, 2023 18:28
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Lammasu posted:Russia is looking more and more like one of those fictional societies that could never work out in real life, like the Drow.  Holy poo poo this is so apt With the exception of the complete matriarch They kind of remind me of the Enclave in Fallout, a bunch of descendents of extremely wealthy people who blew up the whole world the first time, commanding a bunch of poor grunts to die for their delusional and genocidal worldview. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 19:38 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 18:33
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TulliusCicero posted:
Have power armor be hogged by select tiktok enthusiasts while most troopers run around in rags and you are close
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May 16, 2023 18:36
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mobby_6kl posted:I think the costs also gets overblown, like remember how mad everyone was about the F-35 program? It's now cheaper per unit than any comparable plane. I think even than the F-16? One reason everyone in the media went nuts over the cost was that a large number (1.7 Trillion or something) was released for the program at one point, and everyone went bug-nuts over the unit price when they did the math... but nobody bothered to read that the number was for the fleet of aircraft (2400'ish), and all costs to operate them for the entire lifespan of like 57 years. So R&D, acquisition, spare parts, fuel, personnel salaries for 57 years.. Everything was included in that number.
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May 16, 2023 18:38
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EorayMel posted:Yes. it does have a foreskin
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May 16, 2023 18:39
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The Locator posted:One reason everyone in the media went nuts over the cost was that a large number (1.7 Trillion or something) was released for the program at one point, and everyone went bug-nuts over the unit price when they did the math... but nobody bothered to read that the number was for the fleet of aircraft (2400'ish), and all costs to operate them for the entire lifespan of like 57 years. So R&D, acquisition, spare parts, fuel, personnel salaries for 57 years.. Everything was included in that number. nice try, bud. I read once that they don't work in the rain and that means they'll NEVER work in the rain
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May 16, 2023 18:42
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CannonFodder posted:Thank you for the serious answer and Note that those cartridges are modern Fiocchi 7.62x38r. The Russian rounds look a bit different, without that weird crimp at the mouth. Still looks like an uncut dick though.  
madeintaipei fucked around with this message at 18:48 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 18:45
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:That, and there's overlap. Research from some programs will go into others. I recall something to the effect that a lot of the money and research that went into the F-14 went into the F-16 or vice versa, decreasing later development time and cost. There haven't really been any stinkers in the US arsenal since the '70s,and to be fair we made some real bad stuff in that time. People tell me the Stryker sort of qualifies, but that's out of my knowledge. Some of the reports of it feel overblown despite its deficiencies. the bradley also has a lot of conceptual overlap with the f-35 insofar as the bradley came at a time when there was a big gap to fill in modern battlefields and nobody really knew how to fill it, so they more or less made a single project an overbloated mass of R&D wherein they solved an entire class of basic problems that then got appropriated into a bunch of other projects - even after they slapped together everything they learned from it into a vehicle that actually does solve some interesting problems. it turns out churchill's old joke about how you can always count on americans to do the right thing after they have done literally everything else 1) is true 2) happens to make americans weirdly good engineers
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May 16, 2023 18:51
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The whole argument is stupid because everyone and their mom is scrambling to buy F-35s now - which defrays any cost the Americans spent developing it (money that went into US pockets) That sort of cash outlay looks oversized when you're the developer and only customer, but not now
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May 16, 2023 19:32
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zone posted:
Right after the Ukrainians shoot down 6 hypersonic missiles dipshit over there goes on social media to say they shot down SEVEN missiles. I don't expect a shred of honesty from the Russians, but the absolute grade school level pettiness is somehow still surprising.
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May 16, 2023 19:48
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Tunicate posted:Like this is a low loving bar to be less competent than. Yeah, about that. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/16/3-russian-hypersonic-missile-scientists-jailed-for-treasoncolleagues-say-a81155 quote:The institute said its members Anatoly Maslov, Alexander Shiplyuk and Valery Zvegintsev are held in custody on treason charges for speaking at conferences abroad, publishing articles in popular magazines and participating in international projects. Maybe their Stalinist speed run will get them there eventually.
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May 16, 2023 20:03
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Victis posted:The whole argument is stupid because everyone and their mom is scrambling to buy F-35s now - which defrays any cost the Americans spent developing it (money that went into US pockets) It doesn't really change that there was a ridiculously bloated upfront cost due to dumb requirements and R&D fuckups, but that only adds to people getting confused by program cost vs manufacturing cost. It's how you keep getting the repeated "Boy this project is expensive, so we cut the order in half and it's sure lucky we did that since the unit price just went up 70%!"
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May 16, 2023 20:03
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Tunicate posted:Even so it is astonishing how the things the USSR were world leaders in (like crystal growth) ended up being raided and totally destroyed by modern Russia. Thank you! I'd always been low-key aware that the Soviets were weirdly attached to growing massive crystals, but it's something that (in my experience) is largely unknown or unremarked upon. My doctoral supervisor has a story about one of his old labs in Australia buying an old soviet laser system and them being astonished to discover it contained a massive YAG crystal (at the time where those were suuuuuper expensive)
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May 16, 2023 20:20
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The Soviet Union erased an entire sea from the face of the planet for all intents and purposes. As bad as Russia can be in this regard, Putin hasn't turned the Caspian into dry toxic alkaline dust (yet)
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May 16, 2023 20:25
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SquirrelGrip posted:is there a difference in ballistics for cut/uncut ...yeah, actually. The reason for the uncut cases is to help seal the gap between the cylinder and barrel of a revolver. The russian nagants are pretty much the only revolvers that actually cared about it, but the uncut cases do give you a little bit more oomph behind the bullet.
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May 16, 2023 20:30
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Tunicate posted:Even so it is astonishing how the things the USSR were world leaders in (like crystal growth) ended up being raided and totally destroyed by modern Russia. This extended to the military, too. After some post-Civil War failures, the SU decided to let in some White officers to bolster the military. At this time, the SU had some brilliant commanders with forward-thinking ideas for what modern warfare.. who would were subsequently executed/purged along with their families because Stalin and his cronies felt threatened.
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May 16, 2023 20:38
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:This extended to the military, too. After some post-Civil War failures, the SU decided to let in some White officers to bolster the military. At this time, the SU had some brilliant commanders with forward-thinking ideas for what modern warfare.. who would were subsequently executed/purged along with their families because Stalin and his cronies felt threatened. not even zhukov being the biggest russian war hero since the 1800s saved him from being post-war purged out of public life by khrushchev in 1957
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May 16, 2023 20:43
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Klyith posted:I'm sure it can, but that top speed might imply the target is within a low enough range that the missile can run the engine all the way to impact.
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May 16, 2023 20:49
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HonorableTB posted:not even zhukov being the biggest russian war hero since the 1800s saved him from being post-war purged out of public life by khrushchev in 1957 And then when he died in semi-obscurity (he was kind of brought back into the warmth with Brezhnev, though it didn't really mean that much at that point), the government went ahead and ignored his wishes for a Christian burial (which wasn't illegal in the Soviet Union) and cremated him and buried the ashes at the Kremlin.
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May 16, 2023 21:00
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The khinzels range apparently also includes the aircraft that carries them. Their stated range is 1900km, which includes being ferried 1750 km by a jet
Drone_Fragger fucked around with this message at 21:50 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 21:11
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^^^ Lol really? The Tomahawk then has a range of >10,000km? Prettz posted:These are not "hypersonic missiles" in the sense that anyone typically uses. "Hypersonic missile" implies it has a scramjet, which no missile in existence does. These Russian missiles are just rocket-powered ballistic missiles with some terminal guidance. It's an enormous difference. Also they might've destroyed a Patriot after all! 
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May 16, 2023 21:16
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Russia will start flying sortie missions into Ukraine with their best aircraft to get a chance to shoot at Patriot systems and get shot down, so they can tell everyone back at home how they "absolutely destroyed American defenses despite claims of Patropt being invincible". Russia will lose $100 billion over it and call it a stunning victory.
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May 16, 2023 21:29
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Prettz posted:These are not "hypersonic missiles" in the sense that anyone typically uses. "Hypersonic missile" implies it has a scramjet, which no missile in existence does. These Russian missiles are just rocket-powered ballistic missiles with some terminal guidance. It's an enormous difference. Eh, why? A rocket engine goes just as fast as a scramjet. The only thing a scramjet does is give you longer range. The two reasons defense is worried about hypersonic missiles: 1. Going really fast means you have less time to respond and intercept. This is true regardless of what engine you use. Long range works against high speed in this area. 2. Evasive maneuvers while going really fast are much harder to intercept, because you have far fewer cycles to observe-react while closing with the target. If the Kinzhal is easily intercepted by Patriots, there are a bunch of possible reasons besides "doesn't use a scramjet". On the first topic, it may not be going as fast when it gets to Kyiv airspace because the rocket is burned out. Or it may be highly observable to the Patriot's radar, so it has plenty reaction time. (Kinzhal being air-launched makes me wonder if it can't fly very low on route to its target -- that would make it kinda poo poo.) For number two, it doesn't do much evasion, because that's actually super hard to do at mach 10. (And even harder to both evade interceptors while still hitting your target.) These are capabilities nobody has demonstrated, and there are good reasons to be skeptical of just how it will ever work.
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May 16, 2023 21:30
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Klyith posted:Eh, why? A rocket engine goes just as fast as a scramjet. The only thing a scramjet does is give you longer range. 2. Yes. Klyith posted:If the Kinzhal is easily intercepted by Patriots, there are a bunch of possible reasons besides "doesn't use a scramjet". On the first topic, it may not be going as fast when it gets to Kyiv airspace because the rocket is burned out. Or it may be highly observable to the Patriot's radar, so it has plenty reaction time. (Kinzhal being air-launched makes me wonder if it can't fly very low on route to its target -- that would make it kinda poo poo.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal Klyith posted:For number two, it doesn't do much evasion, because that's actually super hard to do at mach 10. (And even harder to both evade interceptors while still hitting your target.) These are capabilities nobody has demonstrated, and there are good reasons to be skeptical of just how it will ever work. edit: vvvvv I should probably watch that before commenting further, I'm just going off memory Prettz fucked around with this message at 21:56 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 21:45
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There's a Perun video on Hype(r)sonics: "Hypersonic Weapons: Overhyped or Superweapons? - threats, challenges & has the USA fallen behind?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n3fjoacL20
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May 16, 2023 21:55
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karoshi posted:There's a Perun video on Hype(r)sonics: I'm going to laugh so hard if the DF-ZF turns into another MiG-25, where it's not at all what the west thinks it was and prompts them to actually make the tech they were afraid of in the first place, securing a commanding advantage.
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May 16, 2023 22:07
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Pot Smoke Phoenix posted:Russia will start flying sortie missions into Ukraine with their best aircraft to get a chance to shoot at Patriot systems and get shot down, so they can tell everyone back at home how they "absolutely destroyed American defenses despite claims of Patropt being invincible". Agreed. Patriot has huge symbolic value for Russia above just their military effectiveness - it has an image in the media as 'America's best land-based SAM'. Destroying one would give the Russians some valuable propaganda material to work with - it might even help mitigate some of the reputational damage their military has suffered. There's a real chance the Russians will disportionately focus on trying to kill one, wasting lots of valuable and irreplacable missiles. If Ukraine can take advantage of this preoccupation in any way, via psyops or decoy launchers to divert attacks from other targets, it should.
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May 16, 2023 22:12
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I thought Kinzhal was the one that had a dash to target feature but it was another one
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May 16, 2023 22:12
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Kinzahl is a real piece of poo poo.
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May 16, 2023 22:14
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Just in form, Putin wishes his Russia was like the SU. The SU had unbelievable state capacity to muster men, material, and industrial resources to do poo poo with. It was astonishingly inhuman and led to the mass deaths of millions but it could do poo poo that modern Russia can only really dream of. Modern Russia is more like a neofuedal power structure wherein Putin runs things from the center and his cronies manage things on a more local level, with each 'republic' or oblast basically being whatever cream rises to the top of the local oligarchy. It's an authoritarian state with its fundamental structure set up to maintain Putin in power, not a communist hellscape wherein all power flows from an extremely dominant center outward. This is why the corruption is so endemic, it's not a bug, it's a feature . By contrast, Stalin so thoroughly killed or replaced whatever political opposition within the party that he could and did very personally direct a shitload of state functions on every level, from road building and economic decisions to whatever was going to played in Leningrad's theater. He was remarkable in that he was basically a Louis XIV, Russian style. Being in his personal good graces led to your astonishing rise, but one offhand comment about your performance could very literally mean the death of not just you, but your wife, kids, parents, uncles, aunts, and everyone you knew. A Festivus Miracle fucked around with this message at 22:26 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 22:22
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Killer robot posted:It doesn't really change that there was a ridiculously bloated upfront cost due to dumb requirements and R&D fuckups, but that only adds to people getting confused by program cost vs manufacturing cost. It's how you keep getting the repeated "Boy this project is expensive, so we cut the order in half and it's sure lucky we did that since the unit price just went up 70%!" See the F-22 for a good example of how cutting numbers causes terrible unit pricing. Also the B-2.
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May 16, 2023 22:24
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Planes! https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1658555441822027800?t=5ASC1j9z_xbOp8MCFVGRAA&s=19
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May 16, 2023 22:40
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https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1658538120399167489
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May 16, 2023 23:17
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On one hand good, but on the other hand there is an entire country to be rebuilt, so it's far from surprising that construction companies are chomping at the bit.
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May 16, 2023 23:37
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businesses want business is a ?Geisladisk posted:On one hand good, but on the other hand there is an entire country to be rebuilt, so it's far from surprising that construction companies are chomping at the bit. i'm gonna be the tedious fucker that points out it's champing
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May 16, 2023 23:38
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