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Orange Devil posted:So it was completely unthinkable is what you're saying? most empires do seem to sleepwalk into their own downfall as if it was always an inevitability i guess the banality of evil just infests everything until all relevant positions are filled with fail sons. It keeps happening.
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May 15, 2023 21:11
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Orange Devil posted:So it was completely unthinkable is what you're saying? water was the main connective tissue for most traffic until railrways and personal automobiles in my country you had "water-municipalities" composed of various villages which didn't really have roads and which communicated solely by boat and ferry until the seventies
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May 16, 2023 01:13
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it was a genuine mystery for some scholars as to how crops and goods made their way up and down the Americas until people realized that most of the technology indigenous Americans developed centered around navigating rivers, coastlines and narrow waterways to get around.
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May 16, 2023 01:20
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Orange Devil posted:So it was completely unthinkable is what you're saying? I think as Tankbuster alluded to this is always going to be one of my ideological blindspots, because I just don't get it. If the Empire was ever worth having, there ever was a British culture that had objective values - I would suggest that values that can be observed universally can be cultivated universally - then rather than being unthinkable, it should be foundational to believe that these values, culture, political rights and so on cannot be limited by race. An Empire on which the sun never sets should not have race as a horizon.
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May 16, 2023 01:47
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Frosted Flake posted:I think as Tankbuster alluded to this is always going to be one of my ideological blindspots, because I just don't get it. If the Empire was ever worth having, there ever was a British culture that had objective values - I would suggest that values that can be observed universally can be cultivated universally - then rather than being unthinkable, it should be foundational to believe that these values, culture, political rights and so on cannot be limited by race. An Empire on which the sun never sets should not have race as a horizon. Because thats all set dressing, Civilozing Missions, Britishness, its just cover to make the unending evil greeed and destruction seem worth something more than making a rich pedophile even richer. Its how you get normal people to buy into the logic that the Empire isn't just an extraciton machine to immiserate the many for the benefit of the few but a grand vision for everyone
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May 16, 2023 02:02
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Yeah the wealth extraction part of the British Empire was the only part that actually worked. And its the part that's still around lol. Planting flags in Africa and trying to tell people how to live just made people mad. Frankly I don't think the British ever learned how to run a country, just distract people long enough to steal their labour.
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May 16, 2023 03:03
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KomradeX posted:Because thats all set dressing, Civilozing Missions, Britishness, its just cover to make the unending evil greeed and destruction seem worth something more than making a rich pedophile even richer. Its how you get normal people to buy into the logic that the Empire isn't just an extraciton machine to immiserate the many for the benefit of the few but a grand vision for everyone You're right, of course. As TERF Island sinks into the sea, let's look beyond Empire that was, but rather, at the Empire that might have been. Under a Crown of unity and shared destiny; a Commonwealth where the virtues of duty, bravery and honour did not stop at the white/White cliffs of Dover but stretched across the globe, embracing every corner of the vast Empire. The King and the land are one, so all people under the Crown are one. An Empire where every voice was heard in the halls of Westminster, where citizenship knew no colour, where an Indian could stand shoulder to shoulder with an Englishman, not as subject and ruler, but as equal partners in the grand project of civilization. An Empire where the Kikuyu farmer and the Kent ploughman each had their say in the course of their shared history - and the London banker did not. Imagine the stories we could have told, the tales of brotherhood and camaraderie that would have echoed through the generations. The image of the Gurkha and the Highlander, not just fighting side by side, but voting side by side, each with an equal stake in the decisions of Empire. The sight of an African statesman addressing the House of Commons, his voice carrying the hopes and dreams of a continent. The idea of a child from Calcutta or Kingston or Lagos studying at Oxford, not as an outsider, but as a fellow Briton. The Empire that was had its tales of valour and glory, but they were too often marred by the stains of exploitation and inequality. The Empire that might have been, though, that's something to hope for. A story not of conquest, but of a shared journey towards a brighter future. An Empire where a quarter of the world's population, resources, and productive capacity were not just subjects to be ruled, but partners in the grandest project humanity has ever undertaken. Don't cry for Empire that was, but the Empire that might have been. The missed opportunities, the unfulfilled promises, the potential left unrealized. There are two kings who were and are to come. Let either of them deliver England, but also redeem the sins of Empire. I'll give you an example. My parents were involved in some events surrounding the Coronation, and my mother is furious about the removal of religious symbols from the Crown. I guess the Heralds had shown people the new ones at some reception. Anyway, she yelled about it, tried to provoke me into an argument about it, it was a whole thing. She seems to think I should be outraged.   She has it all wrong - I'm not just relieved, I'm glad. Those symbols mean something to me, and - I don't say this lightly - they probably don't to her and all of the Ford Nation shitheads, even Americans, getting mad about things they never cared for. There are, what, a hundred American Anglicans? They're concerned about the sanctity of the crown of the tyrant George III? What the gently caress does my mom know about wearing the Crown or being under the Colours? If she knew, and the weight of it mattered to her, then I think she would agree with me - Canada (and Britain, the Empire) did not deserve them. Symbols, however profound or potent, are only as meaningful as the actions they inspire. The Crown, bearing Christian symbolism,should have held a certain sanctity - a sanctity that was too often belied by the actions carried out in its name. For every symbol of faith or virtue that it bore, there were countless instances where the Empire fell short of embodying those values. More still where it didn't even try. Worse, more times than you can count when it (often) acted in opposition to what it claimed to stand for. Poverty, racism, injustice - these aren't just stains on the Crown, but on all of humanity. The Crown of Canada, stripped of Christian symbols, no longer reminds us of the unfulfilled promise of the Empire. It no longer holds up a mirror to our failings, to our unworthiness to bear the mark of faith and virtue. To the awful things we did in the name of the Crown, and that the Crown does ostensibly in our name. What the King's Shilling pays for instead of feeding the poor, who it is taken from instead of the rich. If you are going to mark your global empire with the cross a poor carpenter was nailed to for telling us to love one another, a radical calling to overcome all barriers of wealth, power and inequality - because that's what the symbol means - then you had better live according to that sign. That's what insignia means, you are distinguished by the sign you wear. It is your duty to live up to it. To bear a symbol without embodying its meaning is a sacrilege. It's a hollow gesture, an insult. The cross, the fleur-de-lis, these are symbols of Christian faith, but if that faith is not upheld in the actions and policies of the Empire, then those symbols are meaningless. The Crown doesn't deserve them, the Empire doesn't either. The King that was and will be, the one who truly deserves to wear such a crown, will be the one who not only bears these symbols but lives by their principles. He will be a king who stands for justice, for equality, for compassion - not in word alone, but in deed. He will be a king who understands that the weight of the Crown is not in its gold or jewels, but in the responsibility it carries to uphold the values it represents. lol I guess you can consider that to be Arthur, Alfred or Christ, it should make no difference in the standards you hold yourself to. If I hear one more Toronto suburb dipshit talk about the "Christian country" we live in, or used to live in (they say), I don't know what I'll do. I don't understand how they could be so wrong about what any of this means. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 03:31 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 03:25
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Frosted Flake posted:I think as Tankbuster alluded to this is always going to be one of my ideological blindspots, because I just don't get it. If the Empire was ever worth having, there ever was a British culture that had objective values - I would suggest that values that can be observed universally can be cultivated universally - then rather than being unthinkable, it should be foundational to believe that these values, culture, political rights and so on cannot be limited by race. An Empire on which the sun never sets should not have race as a horizon. Values are what people do rather than what they say. Like the US empire talks a big game about human rights, civil rights, democracy, freedom of press and speech and all that. It's all bullshit and always was bullshit. It's a country with slavery as a load bearing pillar since conception to this day talking about everyone being equal. Massive amounts of bullshit seems to be a foundational part of empires throughout history. Like how Rome just kept expanding through purely defensive wars for centuries. Similarly the bullshit about monarchs and the wider nobility being directly appointed by (or even descended from) god (or gods, as the case may be). The powerful spin whatever yarn they need to justify their power and fortune and help get the the rest of society to accept their lot in life. Though the finalenforcement mechanism for that acceptance always comes down to violence. Sorry FF, I know you care a lot about some of this stuff but errrr yeah, none of this was ever about anything other than "more for me, and gently caress you".
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May 16, 2023 10:06
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The Brits were too arrogant to even let the other white parts of their empire have an equal seat at the table, no way would they let the Indians in there. Plus imagine all the crazy poo poo that happens in India politics but now it's happening in Whitehall. The South Asian MPs would vastly outnumber the Anglo MPs, to the point of making them a vestigial organ. How do you even pretend it's the same polity with the same concerns at that point? It would reveal the absurdity at the heart of empire quicker than the actual Raj did.
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May 16, 2023 11:30
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I am suddenly reminded of some British internal communications with consulates in Africa at some point during the Cold War. Alas, my memory fails me on the specifics, but it was something along the lines of: "Stop telling Africans that Yugoslavia is just like the Soviet Union, you're not making them like the Yugoslavs less, you're making them like the Soviets more"
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May 16, 2023 11:52
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Mantis42 posted:Plus imagine all the crazy poo poo that happens in India politics but now it's happening in Whitehall. The South Asian MPs would vastly outnumber the Anglo MPs, to the point of making them a vestigial organ. That sounds p cool ngl, but you guys are right, of course.
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May 16, 2023 15:14
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How long should I wait before contacting GMT about The British Way? Cause even though I had P500'd the 2nd edition of Fire in the Lake upgrade kit I had never gotten it, so I decided to just buy it again and I got that but no word about the British Way
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May 16, 2023 16:21
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KomradeX posted:How long should I wait before contacting GMT about The British Way? Cause even though I had P500'd the 2nd edition of Fire in the Lake upgrade kit I had never gotten it, so I decided to just buy it again and I got that but no word about the British Way I had Avalanche Press do the same thing with like $400 worth of games, eventually I'm just going to call them because they're not responding to my emails, which all have the receipt and PayPal receipt. Anyway, with GMT I just got my copy on Friday, I would imagine with shipping times all over the place it could be a bit variable?
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May 16, 2023 17:25
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Mantis42 posted:The Brits were too arrogant to even let the other white parts of their empire have an equal seat at the table, no way would they let the Indians in there. Plus imagine all the crazy poo poo that happens in India politics but now it's happening in Whitehall. The South Asian MPs would vastly outnumber the Anglo MPs, to the point of making them a vestigial organ. How do you even pretend it's the same polity with the same concerns at that point? It would reveal the absurdity at the heart of empire quicker than the actual Raj did. there are 7 indian states with a larger population, one pakistani province, bangladesh is rather more compact but its population dwarfs the uk... this is incredible to think about how few seats in parliament the uk would get if you kept the current number of MPs at 550. actually i just did the math, there are about 1.8 billion people in the subcontinent. add 68 mil for the uk, divide by 550, rounding it up gives you 3.4 million people per constituency. accordingly the whole UK would get 20 seats in parliament. that rocks. we should make this happen.
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May 16, 2023 17:47
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lobster shirt posted:there are 7 indian states with a larger population, one pakistani province, bangladesh is rather more compact but its population dwarfs the uk... this is incredible to think about how few seats in parliament the uk would get if you kept the current number of MPs at 550. Bringing it back to strategy games, someday I want to try doing an uno reverse EU4 or similar campaign where India colonizes and ethnically cleanses Europe and the UK  The British crown will be merely a satrap.
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May 16, 2023 18:43
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there is a ck2 achievement for holding the empire of brittania title as a ruler with indian (i mean there are a bunch in the game i am just using this as shorthand) culture or religioin, i forget which
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May 16, 2023 18:52
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Pretty sure Victoria 3 has one of those too.
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May 16, 2023 18:57
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skooma512 posted:Bringing it back to strategy games, someday I want to try doing an uno reverse EU4 or similar campaign where India colonizes and ethnically cleanses Europe and the UK This isn’t really what I was talking about. I was thinking more like this, but more proportional and without relegating East, West and native Indians to the back row 
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May 16, 2023 20:05
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I don't think anyone should be ethnically cleansing anyone
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May 16, 2023 20:08
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skooma512 posted:Bringing it back to strategy games, someday I want to try doing an uno reverse EU4 or similar campaign where India colonizes and ethnically cleanses Europe and the UK It's pretty trivial to just unite India and be mega rich. The Euros aren't a real threat to anybody in Asia.
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May 16, 2023 20:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:I don't think anyone should be ethnically cleansing anyone Yeah but he who hasn't turned the Ottoman Empire into a client state called "North Kurdistan" throw the first stone
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May 16, 2023 22:17
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Frosted Flake posted:I had Avalanche Press do the same thing with like $400 worth of games, eventually I'm just going to call them because they're not responding to my emails, which all have the receipt and PayPal receipt. Maybe I'll give it a few more weeks
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May 16, 2023 23:29
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KomradeX posted:Maybe I'll give it a few more weeks Avalanche is apparently nearly a one man shop that sources pieces from printers in China practically on a per-order basis, where GMT is.. a real company that even normie boardgames stores stock, so I would have way more faith the USPS or Canada Post is just running behind.
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May 16, 2023 23:35
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Regarde Aduck posted:I don't think anyone should be ethnically cleansing anyone No no you misunderstand, we just exported all your country’s food simply because it was profitable. 
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May 17, 2023 00:00
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https://twitter.com/open_sketchbook/status/1658603825979170816?t=DvbaQpMP5SqK7eb6qLJ0Tw&s=19
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May 17, 2023 01:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/open_sketchbook/status/1658603825979170816?t=DvbaQpMP5SqK7eb6qLJ0Tw&s=19 suddenly all the green tinged shades of German gray make sense
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May 17, 2023 01:57
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Okay tbf I play viking age stuff where even vague color pallettes are already massively inaccurate
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May 17, 2023 02:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/open_sketchbook/status/1658603825979170816?t=DvbaQpMP5SqK7eb6qLJ0Tw&s=19 This explains a great deal
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May 17, 2023 02:18
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Frosted Flake posted:This isn’t really what I was talking about. One People, One Empire, One Leader?
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May 17, 2023 12:05
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Orange Devil posted:One People, One Empire, One Leader? The development of a strong concept of 'race' in Victorian society coincided with the creation of an ideology of Anglo-Saxon racial origin for the English. The dominant idea, although not uncontested, was that the Romans left Britain and that the ancient Britons were killed off or driven into the west of the country during the Anglo-Saxon invasion, where they had remained to form the modern Welsh and Cornish population. Despite Danish and Norman interference, the English were often viewed as primarily Teutonic. This became a myth of race and destiny that sustained a range of contemporary military ambitions. It was also felt to account for the political complexion of English freedom and was defined in many minds by a strongly discriminatory view of the ‘Celts’ of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales as racially inferior to the Germanic English. The Germanic peoples, in settling England in the post-Roman period, were felt to have brought a love of freedom and respect for the family. It was considered that the constitutional liberties in British society derived from this Germanic root. e: Flashpoint Campaigns Southern Storm is great 
Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 14:54 on May 17, 2023 |
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May 17, 2023 12:54
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Frosted Flake posted:Avalanche is apparently nearly a one man shop that sources pieces from printers in China practically on a per-order basis, where GMT is.. a real company that even normie boardgames stores stock, so I would have way more faith the USPS or Canada Post is just running behind. I haven't even gotten the UPS shipping message yet (because UPS is now cheaper than using the Post Office)
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May 17, 2023 15:02
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KomradeX posted:Maybe I'll give it a few more weeks GMT is about to get a ton more games in this month and next, if you wait they may be too busy to fix your order. I would get on it before they are swamped.
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May 17, 2023 17:08
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Sokani posted:GMT is about to get a ton more games in this month and next, if you wait they may be too busy to fix your order. I would get on it before they are swamped. Yeah thats a good point, if I dont hear anything by Monday I'll shoot them an email. Cause yeah it took them like 2 if not more weeks to send me out the 2nd edition upgrade kit for Fire in the Lake
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May 17, 2023 17:18
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Sokani posted:GMT is about to get a ton more games in this month and next, if you wait they may be too busy to fix your order. I would get on it before they are swamped. Aside, what do I do about Avalanche? It's been too long to get a refund from PayPal (lol) and my emails have gone unanswered while I get the emails from their newsletter account on a regular basis. Should I call their office in Alabama or what? Is there any conceivable situation where PayPal would bill me but they didn't receive payment? If it shipped and was lost, wouldn't I have received a notification on their end?
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May 17, 2023 17:20
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Frosted Flake posted:Aside, what do I do about Avalanche? Sorry, I've never used or even heard of them before, I have no idea how to reach them. If they aren't responding to email then try calling them, what else can you do? Sucks that this happened.
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May 17, 2023 18:10
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Been reading a bunch of Ospreys on steppe nomadic militaries (God bless whoever put a bunch of them on the internet archive) and now I'm wondering how far I can make it in an Attila Total War campaign before the weird unit rosters piss me off too much
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May 18, 2023 01:30
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I'm designing a card game! I'm starting off with Fulda 1986. Now it's true that Gorby was probably the least likely of Soviet leaders to actually go to war, the USSR was heading into rapid decline, and also an earlier time period would be way more interesting... Americans want to see an Abrams and an Apache and if I ever publish and sell it I gotta take that into account. I definitely love shitboxes though so the majority of armour is still M60s and T-64s, with some T-62s knocking about too.  The aim is to create a pretty flexible system that could apply to different theatres, time periods, or settings with fairly minor adjustments to the core rules, by keeping a lot of the theming to the card decks themselves. The decks represent different divisions\regiments, and are sealed, set decks - it's emphatically not a CCG.  Being Fulda, NATO defends and Pact attacks. We're starting off with two infantry divisions as the default, but I'm also pretty far along with designing armoured decks and support decks. Support decks will probably suck in 1v1, but I want the game to also be interesting in a 2v2 and 3v3 format. Currently, it's just Soviets and US, but of course there's plenty of potential for Germans, NORTHAG, Poles, Czechs, Yugos, Italy, etc.  There are unit cards and action cards. Units go on the field, occupy positions, move and fight. Action cards (except if they're fortifications or stated otherwise) return to your hand at the end of the turn. Thus, your artillery battery can shell the enemy every turn, unless it gets blown up by a counter-card. Actions and counter-cards an important part of the game flow.  Keeping the theming within the decks means there aren't many core rules to memorize, and also means that different decks move in very different ways. Units move and fight only when an order card is played. You might imagine the Germans might get some kind of Todesfahrt.  Cards have suits, which means you have a limited understanding of what the enemy has on the field, what is in their hand, and what is the next card to draw. This also applies to you. Are you desperate to draw a unit, and you have one space in your hand? Look over to your deck and see if the top card is one, and make an informed choice about whether to discard something from your current hand or not. Don't know whether to hang on to that fighter card? Look at the number of planes and helicopters in your enemy's hand. But beware: discards are permanent. Unlike most CCGs, you never rummage through your discard pile. If you don't use an asset, it's reassigned to another commander - it's a war, after all!  Recon is important, and so is countering it! You don't want to send an A-10 against an enemy position, only for the Pact player to reveal an Osa.  Being on the defensive, the NATO player has a number of fortifications. The game is meant to be quite approachable and quick to play, so rules are fairly simple. I don't model different weapon systems, or attack and defence values: units are rated by a simple combat effectiveness. I also resisted modelling a bunch of variants. To a field commander, a T-64 platoon is a T-64 platoon, despite the differences in capabilities of different variants. The grogs can look at the art and feel smart figuring out whether it's an A, B or a BV. Since this is an early prototype, the card art is completely placeholder and unlicensed as of now. My aim is for people with a basic interest in military matters but without a lot of knowledge of the theatre or weapons systems to be able to pick up the game, play and have fun. However, I'm trying to use core game interactions to gently nudge players into following doctrine. Even if a player doesn't know the doctrine, they will soon discover that using air assets to attack the Pact back line and stall their advance is a good play. And speaking of NATO doctrine...  Escalation cards are powerful, but cost you victory points to use, as well as lowering the maximum number of VPs you can earn. Because the escalation deck is small, your opponent also knows that with each card you draw, their chance of drawing The Big One is higher. If anyone is up for it, I'd love some goon playtest feedback. Currently, the game takes about an hour for a first-time player, and 25-30 minutes for someone who has played a few games. The current design issues are that 1. The board might be a bit big, although if I narrow it it might be too small. That said, narrowing it could help cut another couple minutes off of play time. 2. It's hard to fine tune balance without a lot more testers who have gotten a little bit of experience with the game. 3. Currently it's a no brainer to put terrain cards as next to your own deployment zone and score easy VPs. It makes sense of NATO, but not so much for Pact. I might simply make it so that you can't put down terrain cards next to Pact deployment zone. 4. Currently, NATO escalates a bit too willy-nilly. Now that is realistic, but for gameplay reasons I'd rather make escalation a more weighty decision.
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May 19, 2023 12:37
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I'd probably give you money for this
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May 19, 2023 12:41
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that’s loving awesome
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May 19, 2023 21:32
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Sign me up 4CMBG should be the equivalent of a holographic charizard or blue eyes white dragon
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May 19, 2023 22:24
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