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ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007
space chores!!!

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Tunzie
Aug 9, 2008

FlapYoJacks posted:

Bungies new light experience is so awful it makes a person whose job it is to play MMOs confused and frustrated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8CV06DKlU

New information, at least to me: If you have ever played D2 in the past, the game sets you at level 6, even if you only have 10 minutes of Day 1 destiny under your belt, and give you a way worse experience than brand-new accounts lmfao what the gently caress Bungie.

Also, he tries Duality solo because the game:
- Lists the Dungeon as 1 - 3, just like strikes.
- Everything up to this point is scaled depending on fireteam size.
- There weren't any tool tips or popups that warned him not to do the dungeon alone.
- Duality is listed as 1600.

I can’t watch the video at work, but I recently came back to D2 having quit in early shadowkeep, and yeah, the returning experience is a goddamned mess. Some systems didn’t even work properly because I’d never done the new-player quest to unlock it, and there wasn’t really an explicit pointer to that content to go do it.

life_source
May 11, 2008

i got tired of looking at your edgy baby avatar that a 14-year old would be proud of
Everyone should make sure to grab a Marsilion-C from Banshee so you have one to Deepsight if you haven't already unlocked it for crafting.

This also might be the last week to get easy Judgement of Kelgorath's (the seraph glaive).

and i guess the ikelos hc is available too????

SmallpoxJenkins
Jul 9, 2012


FlapYoJacks posted:

Bungies new light experience is so awful it makes a person whose job it is to play MMOs confused and frustrated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8CV06DKlU

New information, at least to me: If you have ever played D2 in the past, the game sets you at level 6, even if you only have 10 minutes of Day 1 destiny under your belt, and give you a way worse experience than brand-new accounts lmfao what the gently caress Bungie.

Also, he tries Duality solo because the game:
- Lists the Dungeon as 1 - 3, just like strikes.
- Everything up to this point is scaled depending on fireteam size.
- There weren't any tool tips or popups that warned him not to do the dungeon alone.
- Duality is listed as 1600.

Super dogshit, and I'm glad he brought up the point about the loving tooltips being splashed over other poo poo you're trying to read, or brought up during combat when I can't possibly read it, and then can't ever bring it back up again ingame.

syntaxfunction
Oct 27, 2010
Yeah, I've been saying for ages that the new player experience needs a proper overhaul. The reason I got through it was because I was bored/determined/autistic enough to lean on googling poo poo. My girls love the game, but leaned on me to help them through the new light times.

If you don't want to google or lean on community stuff, and you don't have someone who already plays, the whole thing is trash. If they spend a chunk of dev time releasing no new content but spend it reworking the new player experience then that's 100% worth it.

One of the biggest problems with the game is how it feels almost indebted to the players who have been there the longest. Players who don't want old content refreshed when they could get new stuff, because *they* have seen it before. Realistically refreshing and updating content that new players are for sure going to interact with is going to pay off just as well as making a new end game challenge that 5% of the players will care about.

New and casual players matter a lot more than some people would ever like to admit.

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

THE LIAR
I swear, 90% of the time, you can't pay matchmade teammates to even look at champions, muchless know how to fight them, but then Guardian Games rolls and everybody descends on every single champion like loving Seal Team 6 while you're trying to do the stupid emote-finish thing.

Pretzel Rod Serling
Aug 6, 2008



syntaxfunction posted:

Players who don't want old content refreshed when they could get new stuff, because *they* have seen it before. Realistically refreshing and updating content that new players are for sure going to interact with is going to pay off just as well as making a new end game challenge that 5% of the players will care about.

New and casual players matter a lot more than some people would ever like to admit.

totally agree with all of this. it’s such a tough balance to strike, too, because addicts and weirdos would lose their minds if time was taken off from the seasonal release schedule—not to mention I imagine the studio budgets for the cash influx each new season brings.

for now it seems like a runaway train until Final Shape, at which point I could plausibly see D2 going into a D1-Age-of-Triumph-style maintenance phase for a year or so while everything gets updated to match the status quo…but even then, maybe not!

Snuffman
May 21, 2004

syntaxfunction posted:

New and casual players matter a lot more than some people would ever like to admit.

Yeah, watching that video, I never realized just how bad the new light experience is.

The funny thing is, a mish-mash of what we had before would be better.

Like what if you play through the Red War but get new abilities from Ikora and when you're done the campaign then you're directed to the Cosmodrome.

Or what if you start in the Cosmodrome and when you're done there you're led into the Red War campaign. The Red War campaign did a pretty good job as a primer.

What I'm saying is, D2 was better WITH the vaulted content. Some of my best times with D2 was helping my console playing friend start a new PC character and working through Red War/Osiris/Warmind/Foresaken with him.

Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

for now it seems like a runaway train until Final Shape, at which point I could plausibly see D2 going into a D1-Age-of-Triumph-style maintenance phase for a year or so while everything gets updated to match the status quo…but even then, maybe not!

The last big leak heavily implies a revamped New Light experience at some point this year. Maybe the Red War with the Witch Queen style Normal/Legendary treatment? I think a lot of old timers would be psyched to play through Legendary Red War for some new rewards. Look how excited people are for Titan (I know I am.).

The Final Shape is going to flub the ending and ignite more Internet flames than Mass Effect 3 but I think Bungie could do a lot of goodwill by unvaulting and revamping all the old planets (maybe including Venus?) for an Age of Triumph style season. Hell, the rumors also say that Final Shape will only have 2 seasons.

Snuffman fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 17, 2023

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


life_source posted:

Everyone should make sure to grab a Marsilion-C from Banshee so you have one to Deepsight if you haven't already unlocked it for crafting.

This also might be the last week to get easy Judgement of Kelgorath's (the seraph glaive).

and i guess the ikelos hc is available too????

There's no way to unlock Marsilion-C for crafting yet, and odds are it's almost certainly going to be given to you as a tutorial for how it works.

RocketRaygun
Nov 7, 2015



Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

for now it seems like a runaway train until Final Shape, at which point I could plausibly see D2 going into a D1-Age-of-Triumph-style maintenance phase for a year or so while everything gets updated to match the status quo…but even then, maybe not!

Bungie would not invest in a new leveling system this year or any of the long term accessability plans they are putting into place if they planned on sunsetting the game.

The idea of an age of triumph and sunset is not going to happen. This game prints money. Sony did not buy bungie for them to shut down their money printing machine that over 400 people are employed to continue working on.

Pretzel Rod Serling
Aug 6, 2008



I’m not saying sunsetting anything, I’m saying a brief hold on new seasonal stuff and the start of the new “saga” in order to smooth out the experience, make the game more welcoming, and squash some particularly nasty/recurrent bugs.

neutral milf hotel
Oct 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
GOTY

https://twitter.com/destinybulletn/status/1658881053975801857

SmallpoxJenkins
Jul 9, 2012



only took 10 years to move enough bushes

Spanish Manlove
Aug 31, 2008

HAILGAYSATAN
I just figured there wasn't a right side of the gun, like how you can see your own legs but the model only exists below the waist

PERMACAV 50
Jul 24, 2007

because we are cat
Huge beefy This Wednesday At Bungie, lots of exotic upgrades, check it out!!

https://twitter.com/destinythegame/status/1658882348874706944?s=46&t=DT925tMY54SwGEv9vbPHUw

Snuffman
May 21, 2004

All that really matters is we can now rotate weapons and ships on the details screen.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Final victory goes to the ship rotators

T1g4h
Aug 6, 2008

I AM THE SCALES OF JUSTICE, CONDUCTOR OF THE CHOIR OF DEATH!



SWEET BUSINESS IS GETTING EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS NOW BABY!

Aqua Dracula
Nov 2, 2012

Spanish Manlove posted:

I just figured there wasn't a right side of the gun, like how you can see your own legs but the model only exists below the waist

If you have the D2 app you can bring up any item as well as your guardian and inspect it in full 3D. Shaders don't work though.

Roctavian
Feb 23, 2011

Is the note with Tyranny of Heaven that they were looking at "these weapons" indicative of bows, or Garden of Salvation drops?

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog

Roctavian posted:

Is the note with Tyranny of Heaven that they were looking at "these weapons" indicative of bows, or Garden of Salvation drops?

Last Wish, and yeah they were addressing the fact that everybody knows what the next set of Craftable Old Raid Weapons is gonna be

Mesadoram
Nov 4, 2009

Serious Business

T1g4h posted:



SWEET BUSINESS IS GETTING EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS NOW BABY!

:sickos:

Graviton seems to be getting a bit buff as well.

Bandire
Jul 12, 2002

a rabid potato

quote:

Bad Juju has always been hard to control, and it turns out that this is because it was originally set up to use Auto Rifle recoil.
Fixed an issue that was causing the weapon to recoil like an Auto Rifle, making it harder to control. The recoil pattern will now be similar to other Pulse Rifles.

That's so :bungie:. Bad Juju has been in the game since Destiny 1 day one, and its probably been broken this whole time.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
It's a pulse rifle that uses the scout rifle animation rig and the auto rifle recoil pattern, it's even more of a frankenstein gun than we thought

fast cars loose anus
Mar 2, 2007

Pillbug

T1g4h posted:



SWEET BUSINESS IS GETTING EXPLOSIVE ROUNDS NOW BABY!

yoooo

Im not gonna lie as a filthy casual Im actually super excited to return to Titan and gently caress around underwater and have armor themed around it

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4
so my one remaining task for the season is to run Avalon on Legendary; doing it normal is pretty reliable at this point, although the final boss is insanely tedious and I have a tendency to beef it in the third phase (meaning I have to redo the entire fight, which sucks). thinking about just using fireteam finder to run it, as my current friend group/clan isn't available. two questions:

a. I know that enemies get buffed for this mission as the fireteam increases in size - how sizable a buff is it? is it big enough that working with uncoordinated pubbies will actually be worse than just doing it solo?

b. if I just set up a micless run through fireteam finder, is there some kind of assumption that the squad leader will take charge for the dumb access code puzzles and the remainder will just focus on add clear? or does it also end up being a nightmare, meaning I'd be better running it solo?

semi-related: my current loadout for Avalon is a legendary pulse rifle (dealing with hobgoblins at distance/killing them through their regen with anti-barrier if I don't kill them quickly enough), Vexcalibur (it seems to make the second encounter much easier, as well as the final phase of the boss; also good for dealing with hobgoblins if close enough) and a Retrofit Escapade with FTTC/Target Lock (Brakion's head hitbox is the size of a loving barn) using a Striker Titan. if I end up just soloing it, does this sound like the right plan? I know Legendary will add arc shields to some enemies, I assume they're still less common than the void shields so I think my arc grenades/melee should handle it reasonably well.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog
I feel like I recall Outbreak Perfected had extremely GOOD recoil, because it was programmed as an auto rifle...

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

death cob for cutie posted:

a. I know that enemies get buffed for this mission as the fireteam increases in size - how sizable a buff is it? is it big enough that working with uncoordinated pubbies will actually be worse than just doing it solo?

b. if I just set up a micless run through fireteam finder, is there some kind of assumption that the squad leader will take charge for the dumb access code puzzles and the remainder will just focus on add clear? or does it also end up being a nightmare, meaning I'd be better running it solo?

a) It's pretty sizable. You don't *need* to coordinate (all 3 of my legendary runs were micless) but you all need to pull your weight. Enemies are significantly more durable, most notably in that it now takes two hits from vexcalibur to kill a goblin or data carrier so getting your overshield back is less reliable

b) Most people seem to be OK about figuring out who's responsible for what and not interfering with each other

You definitely do not want to try legendary solo unless you have an absolute god tier build and skills

quote:

semi-related: my current loadout for Avalon is a legendary pulse rifle (dealing with hobgoblins at distance/killing them through their regen with anti-barrier if I don't kill them quickly enough), Vexcalibur (it seems to make the second encounter much easier, as well as the final phase of the boss; also good for dealing with hobgoblins if close enough) and a Retrofit Escapade with FTTC/Target Lock (Brakion's head hitbox is the size of a loving barn) using a Striker Titan. if I end up just soloing it, does this sound like the right plan? I know Legendary will add arc shields to some enemies, I assume they're still less common than the void shields so I think my arc grenades/melee should handle it reasonably well.

Arc shields are on harpies, so that's only an issue in certain phases of encounters 2 and 3. You will probably want to cheese the end boss on phase 2 (still possible even though you can't cheese him on phase 3 any more) just to avoid dealing with additional wyverns so bring wish ender.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


death cob for cutie posted:

so my one remaining task for the season is to run Avalon on Legendary; doing it normal is pretty reliable at this point, although the final boss is insanely tedious and I have a tendency to beef it in the third phase (meaning I have to redo the entire fight, which sucks). thinking about just using fireteam finder to run it, as my current friend group/clan isn't available. two questions:

a. I know that enemies get buffed for this mission as the fireteam increases in size - how sizable a buff is it? is it big enough that working with uncoordinated pubbies will actually be worse than just doing it solo?

b. if I just set up a micless run through fireteam finder, is there some kind of assumption that the squad leader will take charge for the dumb access code puzzles and the remainder will just focus on add clear? or does it also end up being a nightmare, meaning I'd be better running it solo?

semi-related: my current loadout for Avalon is a legendary pulse rifle (dealing with hobgoblins at distance/killing them through their regen with anti-barrier if I don't kill them quickly enough), Vexcalibur (it seems to make the second encounter much easier, as well as the final phase of the boss; also good for dealing with hobgoblins if close enough) and a Retrofit Escapade with FTTC/Target Lock (Brakion's head hitbox is the size of a loving barn) using a Striker Titan. if I end up just soloing it, does this sound like the right plan? I know Legendary will add arc shields to some enemies, I assume they're still less common than the void shields so I think my arc grenades/melee should handle it reasonably well.
rando pubbies could make it worse since it runs on the Legend campaign/raids rules - everyone gets one revive token, and someone being on the ground for too long wipes the team.

I dont know if you'd be best running solo. I'd really recommend you head over to the overchill discord and see if you can find one or two people to run it with. It's more likely you'll find some people who can tell you the good spots to stand to not die and be chill enough that using mic won't be a nightmare (or might even be fine doing a micless run)

I don't know about the right loadout for you, but having done it the other day, the arc shields are pretty prevalent in Encounter 2 and 3 that I'd recommend an arc auto-rifle or SMG (but extra range from AR is nice) since the arc enemies felt way more numerous then the void ones. Void LMG like Retrofit is probably a good play for the first encounter for sure, and probably still find for encounter 2 and 3, especially if you're looking to keep adds in control. A disorientating grenade launcher might not be a bad idea for dealing with annoying poo poo like wyvrens. The "shatter orbs" artifact perk is an excellent choice given the numerous void and arc shields.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Oxyclean posted:

rando pubbies could make it worse since it runs on the Legend campaign/raids rules - everyone gets one revive token, and someone being on the ground for too long wipes the team.

It's both better and worse than this- you have infinite tokens, but a maximum total light fading time. e.g. you die and the timer starts counting down from 45 seconds. Someone rezzes you at 20 seconds left. Someone else dies, and the countdown resumes from 20.

So you get unlimited rezzes so long as you do them fast, but if one person dies with 1 second left on the clock that's an instant wipe

Pretzel Rod Serling
Aug 6, 2008



I thought it was two tokens per person per “encounter”? but whatever the case is, it means you need teammates who are both patient and equally competent.

the first boss, the Data Nullifier, is actually by far the hardest imo. I’m generally much more survivable on Void but I had to swap to Well-lock to finally clear it.

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010

i powder a
granite monument
in a soundless flash

showering the grass
with molten drops of
its gold inlay

sending smoking
chips of stone
skipping into the fog



This game is weird

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

I thought it was two tokens per person per “encounter”? but whatever the case is, it means you need teammates who are both patient and equally competent.

It might be, if you have 5 deaths you should probably wipe and start over anyway

quote:

the first boss, the Data Nullifier, is actually by far the hardest imo. I’m generally much more survivable on Void but I had to swap to Well-lock to finally clear it.

Definitely. You need something you can cast on the hole to avoid or resist wyverns bombing you, which they almost always do once or twice before the forcefield closes. The easiest is invisibility, which makes them just not shoot and lasts more than long enough if you time it right, but if you don't have a hunter you may have to improvise

PERMACAV 50
Jul 24, 2007

because we are cat

Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

the first boss, the Data Nullifier, is actually by far the hardest imo. I’m generally much more survivable on Void but I had to swap to Well-lock to finally clear it.

Phoenix Protocol well + Ikelos SMG (or any arc primary) + Shatter Orbs does a lot of work for that encounter.

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
Me and the boys standing in the data nullifier pit

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.
fragile focus might not be an insta shard perk now

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


very glad fighting lion is returning to its previous level of performance because i'm real fuckin' tired of people smugging about how i was "using it because it's bugged"

PERMACAV 50
Jul 24, 2007

because we are cat

https://twitter.com/Destiny2Team/status/1658956573379825665?s=20

neutral milf hotel
Oct 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
I had a good experience finding a knowledgeable fire team to run legendary Avalon using LFG with no mic. Everyone just sorta fell into roles so just let someone focus on the puzzles while others add clear.

it took about 90 minutes altogether after wiping the last phase of the boss section multiple times but as long as you cheese it by hiding behind the weird waterfall then you then you have a good chance

I used void weapons throughout and swapped to le monarque for the main boss phases to attack from a distance

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Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

neutral milf hotel posted:

I had a good experience finding a knowledgeable fire team to run legendary Avalon using LFG with no mic. Everyone just sorta fell into roles so just let someone focus on the puzzles while others add clear.

it took about 90 minutes altogether after wiping the last phase of the boss section multiple times but as long as you cheese it by hiding behind the weird waterfall then you then you have a good chance
If all else fails, you can never have too many wellocks (enjoy your Starfire Protocl for one last hurrah).

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