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nine-gear crow posted:Also he'd probably been gone for about five minutes before you finally stopped talking to realize he'd insulted you. Broke my heart, man. He was the only other Star Trek fan in the office and he had to be a mean girl about it. edit; I bet he loves Picard Season 3.
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May 16, 2023 17:33
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I suppose it really has been a long road
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May 16, 2023 17:34
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ST Picard may have named a Sovereign class starship after him, it’s in the fleet at the end of season 2
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May 16, 2023 17:35
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Fornax Disaster posted:ST Picard may have named a Sovereign class starship after him, it’s in the fleet at the end of season 2 Has there ever been a Kirk-class ship in any of the books or other media? Or, I suppose, more likely there'd be a U.S.S. James T. Kirk than a whole class.
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May 16, 2023 17:39
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Hutch was a good host. It's not his fault the Enterprise crew are all high on their own flagship farts.
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May 16, 2023 17:40
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:They didn't even let Book cock a phaser rifle while saying, "Let's do it...by the ME." That's an extremely Lower Decks line
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May 17, 2023 01:19
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All this talk of hutch but not a word for Leland T. Lynch and his Leland T. Lunch
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May 17, 2023 03:16
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Bismack Billabongo posted:All this talk of hutch but not a word for Leland T. Lynch and his Leland T. Lunch I'd rather pour one out for MacDougal and her successor Argyle.
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May 17, 2023 03:23
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I like how they must have sat around going "Okay, chief engineer, what's important about them?" And every answer was apparently "Must be scottish in some way"
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May 17, 2023 06:19
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MikeJF posted:There's a body somberly covered in a sheet while they look after geordi. The firefight was really something of a blessing in disguise. If it'd been the other way around, Hutch would've been delivering Geordi's eulogy and nobody would be getting out of that memorial anytime soon.
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May 17, 2023 12:19
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Hutch: to know him, was to love him, was to know him...
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May 17, 2023 17:38
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CainFortea posted:I like how they must have sat around going "Okay, chief engineer, what's important about them?" And every answer was apparently "Must be scottish in some way" Probably was in the Season 1 show bible
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May 17, 2023 20:54
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The Borg in Star Trek are like the Daleks in Doctor Who. Scary at first... but inevitably they have to lose for the show to go on. The more they lose as you keep bringing them back the more pathetic they look. They are way overused at this point. I've given this a lot of thought and I think there is one cool but contoversial way a new type of Borg story could occur. Have them win. They assimilate the core of the Federation, scattering the rest. A show about a plucky band of survivors in a galaxy utterly dominated by the Borg could be cool Alternatively, and this would be better... come up with a new enemy that's much scarier. Maybe whoever made the Doomsday Machine?
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May 17, 2023 21:28
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Bodyholes posted:The Borg in Star Trek are like the Daleks in Doctor Who. Scary at first... but inevitably they have to lose for the show to go on. The more they lose as you keep bringing them back the more pathetic they look. They are way overused at this point. Species Scorpion or whatever was pretty threatening.
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May 17, 2023 21:39
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Bodyholes posted:
Weirdly enough the people who made the doomsday machine were some of the borg's earliest victims.
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May 17, 2023 21:43
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Bodyholes posted:The Borg in Star Trek are like the Daleks in Doctor Who. Scary at first... but inevitably they have to lose for the show to go on. The more they lose as you keep bringing them back the more pathetic they look. They are way overused at this point. That's one thing I appreciate about Stargate: Atlantis is that they realized the Wraith had a shelf-life as a terrifying villain race and they turned them into a joke by the time the show was finished.
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May 17, 2023 21:56
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nine-gear crow posted:That's one thing I appreciate about Stargate: Atlantis is that they realized the Wraith had a shelf-life as a terrifying villain race and they turned them into a joke by the time the show was finished. Given that the same thing happened to the villains in the previous show I'm not sure this was intentional
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May 17, 2023 21:58
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Tighclops posted:Given that the same thing happened to the villains in the previous show I'm not sure this was intentional I think that was largely a by-product of Richard Dean Anderson treating the whole franchise like it was a comedy so the writing eventually came to mirror that outlook across both SG-1 and Atlantis. That's part of why Stargate Universe was so poorly received was that it kind of forgot how goofy Stargate inherently was and it turned its potential audience off before it finally figured out how to be the best possible version of itself. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 17, 2023 |
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May 17, 2023 22:00
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it's a setting where the us military are collectively dedicated, principled, intelligent competent, and heroic. anything goes in funhouse mirror world.
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May 17, 2023 22:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's a setting where the us military are collectively dedicated, principled, intelligent competent, and heroic. anything goes in funhouse mirror world. Nono, just the air force
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May 17, 2023 22:18
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nine-gear crow posted:I think that was largely a by-product of Richard Dean Anderson treating the whole franchise like it was a comedy so the writing eventually came to mirror that outlook across both SG-1 and Atlantis. That's part of why Stargate Universe was so poorly received was that it kind of forgot how goofy Stargate inherently was and it turned its potential audience off before it finally figured out how to be the best possible version of itself. IMHO Stargate tiptoed the line between serious scifi and comedy scifi for its entire run, tipping into the comedy stuff on the later years. Being "comedy" scifi isn't inherently a bad thing, Orville is at times better Star Trek than some Star Trek is, but making the follow-up series dark doesn't really work most of the time if you follow a comedy act with a beloved series lead. And RDA is the goddamn MacGyver, his presence really carried the original show at times. He is the type of actor that makes the show work even if it is terrible. Like MacGyver was in the later seasons.
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May 17, 2023 22:23
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Der Kyhe posted:Orville is at times better Star Trek than some Star Trek is Hail Avis to that
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May 17, 2023 22:33
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If the real US air force found a stargate they'd bury it and spend 60 years disseminating bullshit stories about cattle mutilations and ufo crash recovery reverse engineering programs to cover up the fact that they're too scared to do anything with it because they think it's demons
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May 17, 2023 22:41
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Tighclops posted:If the real US air force found a stargate they'd bury it and spend 60 years disseminating bullshit stories about cattle mutilations and ufo crash recovery reverse engineering programs to cover up the fact that they're too scared to do anything with it because they think it's demons That's why we gotta hope any Stargate on Earth is beneath the ocean. Let the Navy handle it.
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May 17, 2023 22:48
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sweet geek swag posted:That's why we gotta hope any Stargate on Earth is beneath the ocean. Let the Navy handle it. I pity the poor motherfucker who dials Earth and just runs blindly through the gate and winds up crushed to the size of a k-cup before they can even drown because they come out at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.
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May 17, 2023 22:55
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Tighclops posted:If the real US air force found a stargate they'd bury it and spend 60 years disseminating bullshit stories about cattle mutilations and ufo crash recovery reverse engineering programs to cover up the fact that they're too scared to do anything with it because they think it's demons No, if the real US air force found a stargate the highest ranking person involved would suppress it and then call raytheon and tell them about it, retire, and get hired on as a special VP in research.
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May 17, 2023 23:03
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Emergency Medical Holobimbo is more accurate. He is so sexy
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May 18, 2023 01:18
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:Emergency Medical Holobimbo is more accurate. He is so sexy I'm going to pretend you're saying this about EMH Mk II.
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May 18, 2023 02:13
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Bodyholes posted:Have them win. They assimilate the core of the Federation, scattering the rest. A show about a plucky band of survivors in a galaxy utterly dominated by the Borg could be cool Fleeing from Borg tyranny, the last Starfleet flagship, Enterprise, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest... a shining planet known as Earth. (This is the plot of Battlestar Galactica more or less)
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May 18, 2023 04:21
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Bodyholes posted:The Borg in Star Trek are like the Daleks in Doctor Who. Scary at first... but inevitably they have to lose for the show to go on. The more they lose as you keep bringing them back the more pathetic they look. They are way overused at this point. Another thought I had on the Borg: The death of the collective, but not of the danger. Was it a scorched earth option? An accident in adapting without the guidance of the collective? In any case, after the collapse of the collective, the entire galaxy is 'plagued' by strains of borg nanoprobes that have gone rogue, a new type of pathogen that is constantly popping up all over the place, each infection and each species creating quarantined zones, each one having different effects on the population. I know that sounds a bit Crusade, but I think it could work not as a 'main' level threat, but a backburner threat through a series. Carelessness, fear, greed, hubris, etc. all constantly leading to outbreaks spreading and one of the new goals of Starfleet is to perform the task of containing that spread. There could be room to work with that in some way for Trek. The question of how far is Starfleet and the Federation willing to go to eradicate the nanoprobe crisis?. Is death better than life for some of the infected, given what some strains have done to them. The rise of competing semi-collectives whose assimilation through the virus lead them to view other infected as defective. A 'benign' borg nanoprobe strain that possibly could lead to immunity from harmful ones with a risk of side effects. Should someone attempt to force the creation of a new queen/collective in the hopes that a controlled and purposeful collective might be used to control and neutralize the nanoprobe plague at large? It's a different place for a 'Borg' threat to the galaxy. No longer unified and single-minded, but their diversity and disconnected nature have resulted in something that lacks a single solution for all the problems.
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May 18, 2023 05:19
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Having the Borg as an unambiguous antagonist at all past TNG is a bad idea because it goes against the entire series plotline and the franchises themes as a whole. We start with Q Who, where we learn the galaxy has more to it than just new varieties of rubber foreheads. Picard asks “How do we communicate with this weird poo poo?” Both Guinan and Q answer “You two don’t know how to talk yet”. Next we have Best of Both Worlds, the Borg are here and ironically it is them, not the heroes who are the ones who try to bridge the communication gap via Locutus. But the whole “assimilate Earth” plan obviously shows that this is a work in progress. Then we have I, Borg. Now it’s humanity deciding to try communicate to the Borg via Hugh. And Picard accepting and sparing Hugh is more than just him getting over his hate as an individual, it’s about Treks message as a whole, that finding a way to communicate is more important than taking the easy way out of shooting your problems away. Finally we have Descent. And while I know a lot of people give it flak, it concludes the Borg arc like it should. Because of humanity’s efforts to communicate the Borg are finally starting to get this whole individuality thing. And sure we need Lore manipulating them to give us some suspense and wiz bang action, the series concludes with our last meeting with the Borg not with shooting, but talking. And much like the Klingons went from 2-dimensional villains in TOS to someone we were learning to get along with, however difficult it often was, in TNG later series should have stayed true to Treks message and made future Borg encounters ambiguous and sometimes even beneficial.
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May 18, 2023 06:36
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Would you say Scorpion was a step on the right path there?
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May 18, 2023 07:08
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galagazombie posted:Having the Borg as an unambiguous antagonist at all past TNG is a bad idea because it goes against the entire series plotline and the franchises themes as a whole. We start with Q Who, where we learn the galaxy has more to it than just new varieties of rubber foreheads. Picard asks “How do we communicate with this weird poo poo?” Both Guinan and Q answer “You two don’t know how to talk yet”. They definitely didn't feel like the greatest TNG antagonist or even much of a threat at that point, and Picard has an enlightened attitude toward them after I, Borg. Still there is a notion that the collective is still out there and potentially a threat - the Borg in Descent are rogue - I think the last mention of them comes from Parallels where they've taken over one of the alternate timelines. It's not completely egregious that you would go with the Borg as the antagonist for a movie. And obviously it's the sensible choice from a marketing perspective - the Best of Both Worlds is probably the most popular TNG two-parter. Picard's personal attitude toward the Borg in First Contact is what really doesn't make sense, but RLM covered that pretty thoroughly in the TNG movie reviews.
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May 18, 2023 17:06
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Dabir posted:Would you say Scorpion was a step on the right path there? Not really. For one species 8472 is themselves portrayed more as something the Borg have unleashed upon us through their evil ways than as a mutual problem we learn to solve through getting along. The second is right there in the title, a reference to an ultra-cynical proverb that states no one can ever change and it's foolish to even try and get along with them. At no point in the story are the Borg ever negotiating in good faith, and at every point are trying to betray the heroes, even when it's not necessary. Meanwhile the Voyager crew never views working together as an attempt to bridge their two peoples, instead viewing it more like negotiating with a Bridge Troll or even as just buying them off. A version of Scorpion that continued from where TNG left off should have presented Species 8472 as a problem that the Borg didn't cause, and make it so the crew and Borg working together is presented as something that both sides have earnest intentions towards making it work both in the short and long term. Like maybe at the end the Borg keep their end of the deal and tell Voyager "Fine we'll leave you alone but you have to take Seven along as a probation officer till your out of the quadrant". Seven in this case isn't "freed" from the collective, she's just there as a kind of observer and you techno-babble an excuse for why she gets to be in a sexy catsuit and isn't always in full contact with the collective, so she'll still be having all her "what is individuality?" episodes and series arc without having to even change any of them! Maybe even have Species 8472 be a problem that Voyager caused, and Janeway going to the Borg is something presented as her nobly admitting "Look I know we just caused a problem on your doorstep, but we are willing to own up and help you solve this instead of leaving you to clean it up. You could even go further thematically and have 8472 be a hive mind species itself. Make going to the Borg an effort to get someone with experience in this kind of thing.
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May 19, 2023 07:41
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galagazombie posted:Not really. For one species 8472 is themselves portrayed more as something the Borg have unleashed upon us through their evil ways than as a mutual problem we learn to solve through getting along. The second is right there in the title, a reference to an ultra-cynical proverb that states no one can ever change and it's foolish to even try and get along with them. At no point in the story are the Borg ever negotiating in good faith, and at every point are trying to betray the heroes, even when it's not necessary. Meanwhile the Voyager crew never views working together as an attempt to bridge their two peoples, instead viewing it more like negotiating with a Bridge Troll or even as just buying them off. A version of Scorpion that continued from where TNG left off should have presented Species 8472 as a problem that the Borg didn't cause, and make it so the crew and Borg working together is presented as something that both sides have earnest intentions towards making it work both in the short and long term. Like maybe at the end the Borg keep their end of the deal and tell Voyager "Fine we'll leave you alone but you have to take Seven along as a probation officer till your out of the quadrant". Seven in this case isn't "freed" from the collective, she's just there as a kind of observer and you techno-babble an excuse for why she gets to be in a sexy catsuit and isn't always in full contact with the collective, so she'll still be having all her "what is individuality?" episodes and series arc without having to even change any of them! Maybe even have Species 8472 be a problem that Voyager caused, and Janeway going to the Borg is something presented as her nobly admitting "Look I know we just caused a problem on your doorstep, but we are willing to own up and help you solve this instead of leaving you to clean it up. You could even go further thematically and have 8472 be a hive mind species itself. Make going to the Borg an effort to get someone with experience in this kind of thing. I'd watch any and all of that. Imagine what Voyager could've been if actual Star Trek fans wrote it instead, like how DS9 was written!
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May 19, 2023 11:49
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That's one way to read the proverb. The other way is to realize that it's not about the scorpion, but about the frog's failure to accept the scorpion on it's terms. Disco even had a bit about this weirdly, with the vulcan hello. Writing a story about a federation captain saying the magic words to make the borg suddenly realize the error of their ways seems like a worse way to get where they got. Because while they are wrong by the viewer's standards, and by the federation's standards, they aren't wrong by their standards. TNG had a bit about this with Hue. They kept trying to teach him how to be a person and failing, but it was just Hue being exposed to them and him growing on his own that changed him. Treating them like a Bridge Toll is the right way to do it with the setup the Borg had at that point. And she understands that about them and has to deal with them anyway. I'm not saying that having them work together and learn from each other couldn't possibly be a good thing, but the way they treated the borg up to that point I don't think that would have been a good fit. The writers would have had to started doing the spade work ahead of time to set it up, or else it would just be a cheap "rousing speech to save the day" thing.
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May 19, 2023 16:49
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galagazombie posted:Not really. For one species 8472 is themselves portrayed more as something the Borg have unleashed upon us through their evil ways than as a mutual problem we learn to solve through getting along. The second is right there in the title, a reference to an ultra-cynical proverb that states no one can ever change and it's foolish to even try and get along with them. At no point in the story are the Borg ever negotiating in good faith, and at every point are trying to betray the heroes, even when it's not necessary. Meanwhile the Voyager crew never views working together as an attempt to bridge their two peoples, instead viewing it more like negotiating with a Bridge Troll or even as just buying them off. A version of Scorpion that continued from where TNG left off should have presented Species 8472 as a problem that the Borg didn't cause, and make it so the crew and Borg working together is presented as something that both sides have earnest intentions towards making it work both in the short and long term. Like maybe at the end the Borg keep their end of the deal and tell Voyager "Fine we'll leave you alone but you have to take Seven along as a probation officer till your out of the quadrant". Seven in this case isn't "freed" from the collective, she's just there as a kind of observer and you techno-babble an excuse for why she gets to be in a sexy catsuit and isn't always in full contact with the collective, so she'll still be having all her "what is individuality?" episodes and series arc without having to even change any of them! Maybe even have Species 8472 be a problem that Voyager caused, and Janeway going to the Borg is something presented as her nobly admitting "Look I know we just caused a problem on your doorstep, but we are willing to own up and help you solve this instead of leaving you to clean it up. You could even go further thematically and have 8472 be a hive mind species itself. Make going to the Borg an effort to get someone with experience in this kind of thing. Scorpion is basically "The Borg hosed Around and Found Out: The Episode."
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May 19, 2023 17:14
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Fluidic space so the expression "There's always a bigger fish." would be cheeky as well.
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May 19, 2023 18:05
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mycomancy posted:Imagine what Voyager could've been if actual Star Trek fans wrote it instead, like how DS9 was written! Okay *closes eyes* Oh no... OHH NO!
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May 19, 2023 18:17
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i'm still waiting for voyager 2: the two ferengi dudes from false profits trying to get home from the epsilon quadrant or wherever they landed
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May 19, 2023 19:18
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