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its very funny that the only people who took kayfabe seriously were the wrestlers despite the fact that most people even back in the golden age of wrestling suspected that it was all staged but were enjoying it regardless because it was entertaining and had easy to follow stories with entertaining characters they wanted to see but wrestling is so ingrained into carnie culture that the industry needs to have some way to gently caress with the audience and make them keep guessing whether its a work or shoot
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May 19, 2023 04:51
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Makes me think of the opening of Bret's book where he was watching his father's wrestling company on TV when he was around seven and goggling over Killer Kolowski 'breaking someone's neck' (the top babyface I assume), and then being baffled by his older brothers, who knew the truth, talking about how great the face was 'selling it', and Bret being appalled that his brothers didn't care that the top face had just nearly been murdered and near crippled. Ric Flair's wife, however, well...if you're that close for so long and never clue in, well...that's a lot more on you. Then again, maybe humans just aren't innately attuned to go "Wait, this is presented as barbarous bloodsport, yet my husband doesn't really have the personality to want to engage in this sort of thing for a living..." Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 08:49 on May 19, 2023 |
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May 19, 2023 04:55
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thinking about how ric flair and ted dibase were being giving huge pay checks just to help them live the gimmick because it would break kayfabe if they weren't multi millionaire playboys flying around in private jets and staying in 5 star hotels
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May 19, 2023 04:59
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:thinking about how ric flair and ted dibase were being giving huge pay checks just to help them live the gimmick because it would break kayfabe if they weren't multi millionaire playboys flying around in private jets and staying in 5 star hotels IIRC, Vince actually gave DiBiase a huge wad of cash every week during his days as The Million Dollar Man, and told him to always fly first class, rent limos or fancy cars, buy drinks for everyone at the hotel bar, leave huge tips, etc., so that the gimmick was 100% believable.
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May 19, 2023 05:01
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Cornwind Evil posted:Ironically the same list of stuff I posted. Hogan's instincts as a politician/bullshit artist probably aren't helping. They are the kind of deep-seated behavior/character trait that can persist even in people whose brain is mostly mush. There have to be some lights in Hogan's brain whenever someone asks him a question that make him go "Got to spin this, brother!"
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May 19, 2023 07:45
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And unfortunately, we're getting to the bad part of this story as well. --- All That Glitters, Part 666: Paint It Black Of all the things that irritate me about the ‘wrestling is fake’ dismissal is the assumption that ‘fake’ means ‘effortless’. That it’s all homoerotic men rubbing on each other. That since they’re playing pretend, their efforts are dumb and without worth. In a way, I think, it might be a subconscious repudiation of wrestling’s early roots, where it was tied to carnivals and cheating people out of money and holding them in contempt for it. An ego trip: I’m too smart to be fooled, and I look down my nose at those who are, laying on stereotypes and nasty claims (how many times have you heard the stereotype of wrestling fans lacking teeth and engaging in casual incest?). Never mind that it’s as ‘fake’ as any movie, TV show, book, comic, or anything in that vein that you consume, but you never hear anyone calling the latest hot TV show ‘fake’ unless it’s reality TV. But pro wrestling. “Oh, it’s all fake.” Never mind that pro wrestlers get all the downsides of the people who engage in ‘real’ sports, like football, or boxing, or MMA, or hockey, and more so; even as the safest they’re still being dropped on their backs and front numerous times a night, for many nights. And there’s a lot of that that is a lot LESS safe. And they don’t have crash pads (usually), or retakes (usually) or medical insurance if something goes wrong, and how many stuntmen have had to complete the stunt they’re filming when an error occurred? All that, for peanuts and the likelihood that it will all be for nothing, years and years of wasted effort that will just leave you with a badly damaged, worn out body, and more likely than not, broke. Now yes, there’s the fact that wrestlers have their own blame in this: no one put a gun to Tom Billington’s head and made him jump face first onto concrete floors for years. But all the same. If a football player ends up a complete wreck after a career, at least he also likely has millions of dollars to live on afterwards (whether that money wholly disappears or not is another story). If a wrestler ends up a complete wreck, odds are they end up like Billington, in a wheelchair living in a terrible slum in Britain, spending years essentially rotting as their body degenerates further until they die. My point for all this grimness is, wrestling has many, MANY real life consequences that wouldn’t happen if it was truly ‘fake’. And one of the most universal is addiction; unable to slow down, stop, or wholly fix their issues, wrestlers turn to shortcuts. Alcohol, hard drugs, and perhaps above all else, painkillers. By the time 2007 rolled around, it has been indicated that Dustin had been utilizing, and perhaps over-utilizing, painkillers for years in order to be able to function. He considered that just part of the life. But, unfortunately, with 15+ years now weighing on his body and his job opportunities seemingly beginning to dry up, the ‘life’ was becoming harder, and Dustin went harder on the self-medications in turn. This was, fittingly or not, intertwined with what would become Dustin’s worst gimmick, as he returned to TNA in 2007. And with Vince Russo once again doing his usual style of booking, once again Dustin needed a gimmick. Or was offered one. Unlike Goldust, the exact origins of his 2007 TNA run is not mentioned in the small amount of Googling I did, but wherever it came from, it began with Dustin showing up on TV after debuting as an aid to former WWE star Christian (Cage) and saying that he had a split personality and that it was going to emerge and inflict itself on TNA. I wasn’t able to find any video of the interview, but I swear I remember that somewhere in the lead up, Dustin at first spoke like the gimmick was going to be just that, a gimmick (I swear he said something like “You remember Goldust? Well this is far more dangerous…”), only for it to rapidly morph into ‘this is literally another person in me I cannot control’. And so, on August 12th, the world bore witness…to BLACK REIGN.  …Ie Silverdust, because as Goldust, Dustin had been mixing in black with his gold outfits and makeup for years; he even at least once wore a black wig to the ring. However, while the outfit hides it somewhat, there was a lot more to Silverdust…in the sense that Dustin Runnels had put on a lot of weight. And according to him, this was when his addictions began getting really bad, with him spending a lot of his money earned on pills, drugs, and alcohol. In his autobiography, Dustin candidly talks about this time in his life, and how he promised himself he wouldn’t use any substances before he went out to wrestle. Then it became okay, he’d use a little cocaine, but he wouldn’t drink. It went downhill from there, as most addictions do. Between that and his weight gain, Dustin as Black Reign was a slow, clunky, out of it mess. The idea, as Mick Foley had done to make up for his own limits, was to lean into the gimmick. So Black Reign became a face in TNA’s hardcore division, presented as a sadistic nutcase who carried a spiked cane to the ring and, later, a cage containing his pet rat, Misty, who in theory he would sic on his opponents, but in reality, well…it was just a scared rat.  (Thanks Wrestlecrap) He appeared in hardcore match after hardcore match, each with different names but the same basic execution: Monster’s Ball, Shop of Horrors, Match of 10,000 Tacks, Silent Night Bloody Night, and others. It didn’t help cover up just how much Dustin had degenerated, and his storylines didn’t help either. To cover up how bad he was physically, it was decided that Dustin would be placed in a tag team. And so his partner debuted, another monstrous maniac to add even more suffering to the world of TNA wrestling. A man called RELLIK.  In all honesty, in a vacuum? That’s a pretty good name. As long as you don’t say anything about it. But it seemed like TNA 1) Thought it was so clever that it just HAD to keep being mentioned, and 2) That their fans were so stupid that it had to keep being mentioned. Because Rellik, as Mike Tenay on commentary would just keep saying, week after week, was “Killer” spelled backwards. And since Rellik almost always lost in his short, six month TNA employment, the joke in some wrestling circles was that his name was actually Rebboj. Perhaps fully expectedly, the fans didn’t care about Black Reign at all, and Runnels, spiraling in his addiction, didn’t care in turn. TNA gave it one more try as 2008 rolled around, when one week, Reign and Rellik beat up Frankie “Kaz” Kazarian, and then later on the same night, Dustin came out, as himself, asking for a job and saying his alternate was starting to scare him, only for Kaz to run out and attack him, clearly not buying the whole ‘Runnels and Reign are two personalities’. To drive it home, Kaz, having started a feud, started mocking the concept, putting on face paint and calling himself ‘White Sunshine’, and stealing Misty the rat and renaming her…Marlena.  Good thing he didn't decide to call himself Blue Sunshine, or he might have turned into a crazy bald man. Also around this period of months Reign started carrying around a mysterious black box. It was never revealed what was in it and it vanished in time. Also, the rat kidnapping I just mentioned? Well, Russo was still writing for TNA at the time, so it led to a ‘rat on a pole’ match. Because of course it did. Somehow, this terrible feud sucked in Eric Young, who for a long while had a general history of goofy gimmicks and personality in TNA. So of course, Young was the only one to remotely take Black Reign at face value, declaring him an ‘actual monster’ akin to ones like the Gremlins, or ‘Cloverdale’. He was far too scared to face a monster, but he knew who was…  You know, in the right hands, this could have been some goofy fun. But it was TNA, so it was not. After losing a ‘Cuffed To The Cage’ match against Kaz and Eric Young at the TNA PPV Lockdown in April 2008, Runnels would vanish from TV and house shows. The reason why was at around this time, he was hitting bottom. According to his own words Dustin Runnels posted:"I was probably taking close to 40 pills a day at the end. I was so desperate that I actually bought pain pills from drug dealers because I would run out long before I could find another doctor to write a prescription." Exactly when this happened, I am unsure. Based on a certain date, I think it might well have been just after that April Lockdown. Having finally hit his wall, Dustin called up the WWE and asked to utilize their Wellness program, established a few years earlier after the sudden shock death of Eddie Guerrero, and which could be used by any former employee to help with addiction issues. Dustin would spend 30 days in a rehab clinic, and credit to the man’s strength if this is true or even half true, but he claims to have been drug and alcohol free since the end of 2008 since. I don’t know if he’s had relapses that he also came back, but if not, it shows that whatever his flaws were, Dustin still had incredible willpower to overcome his issues after they had sunk in so deep. Many wrestlers did not, or could not. However, this happening took Runnels off TNA TV, and after three months of him having vanished after the April PPV, TNA released him from his contract. Dustin, on a roll, apparently plowed another great deal of effort to get back into shape, and lo and behold, Goldust would return to the WWE in October 2008, as one of the three choices to face then-IC Champion Santino Marella in what would be the final edition of the ‘interactive’ WWE PPV Cyber Sunday. Goldust didn’t win the vote, but he helped smack around Marella at the PPV and on Raw the next night, then appeared a few weeks later on Raw’s 800th episode dancing with his father Dusty Rhodes, before actually returning to the ring, looking considerably slimmer and quicker on his feet, on November 24th. As has been mentioned, Dustin utterly hates this part of his career, and will block anyone who asks about it on social media. I suspect it’s not the gimmick, but the state he was in while he was doing it. I’m pretty sure in an alternate universe where he had his come to Jesus moment earlier, he would laugh it off today as just a bunch of failed silliness. Next: A bunch of failed silliness, but in a lighter vein. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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May 19, 2023 08:49
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Thanks for these write ups, never knew it got that bad for him. So many others have just said gently caress it and ended their lives, glad he clawed out.
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May 19, 2023 13:20
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Cornwind Evil posted:Good thing he didn't decide to call himself Blue Sunshine, or he might have turned into a crazy bald man. I just want you to know I appreciate this reference. 
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May 19, 2023 13:59
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I don’t know if there’s anything better in wrestling than listening to Jim Ross say “Grand Master Sex-ayyyy”.
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May 19, 2023 14:29
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Cornwind Evil posted:That's one part of wrestling being 'fake' that the bad faith critics never consider: these men and women are stuck in their roles for longer than any other acting type. Yeah, Will Sasso told of when he was doing goofy promo sketches for MADtv with wrestlers & was surprised Steve Austin nailed it in one take, then someone explained it made sense as Austin had done hundreds of hours more tv acting than Sasso.
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May 19, 2023 14:59
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Cornwind Evil posted:Ironically the same list of stuff I posted. This is a good segue for me to mention that, while in central Florida visiting family last week, I heard tell that the Hulkster is joining the Church of Scientology. I think it's all speculation, but it kind of makes sense, given how the CoS and WWF have basically the same business model. https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/entertainment-celebrity/former-scientologist-weighs-in-on-hulk-hogan-rumours/ar-AA16wukr
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May 19, 2023 16:40
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wrestling is fake, the muscles are inflated, the 'snake' on santino marella's hand is just a well-trained ferret, vince drew that mustache on with a pencil, the undertaker did not throw mankind 16' off the cage it was actually just 16",
GolfHole fucked around with this message at 17:23 on May 19, 2023 |
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May 19, 2023 17:16
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GolfHole posted:wrestling is fake, the muscles are inflated, the 'snake' on santino marella's hand is just a well-trained ferret, vince drew that mustache on with a pencil, the undertaker did not throw mankind 16' off the cage it was actually just 16", Undertaker threw Mankind off Hulk Hogan's penis???
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May 19, 2023 17:30
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Grendels Dad posted:Undertaker threw Mankind off Hulk Hogan's penis??? No wonder the Hulkster was talking about how exhausted he was in that sex tape!
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May 19, 2023 17:37
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GolfHole posted:the undertaker did not throw mankind 16' off the cage it was actually just 16", No one knows who they were or what they were doing... so they were not a draw.
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May 19, 2023 18:13
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undertaker was complaining about how wrestlers now dont fight in the locker room, do drugs, or do wrestlers court poo poo anymore and instead just chill out and read books and play video games instead
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May 19, 2023 18:14
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carnie to the end
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May 19, 2023 18:16
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I timestamped a great Vince story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzisUEDATM8&t=1563s
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May 19, 2023 18:44
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:undertaker was complaining about how wrestlers now dont fight in the locker room, do drugs, or do wrestlers court poo poo anymore and instead just chill out and read books and play video games instead The Taker is also a huge chud. He wears what they wear, talks like they do and supports what they do.
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May 19, 2023 19:46
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:after JBL beat the poo poo out of blue meanie on a live show for some stupid wrestling court reason and then stevie richards got revenge on JBL on an episode of smackdown by laying into him with a chair until he was concussed the live show specifically was One Night Stand 2005 he waded through an entire ring of old ECW guys who did not have WWE contracts that said they couldn't gently caress on JBL to start throwing legit punches at a guy over some trivial years-old poo poo you can very clearly see Bubba Ray pulling him out of being wailed on by the entire ECW roster circa 1999 under guise of wanting to get some shots in himself also notable on rewatching that show is the Sandman yelling in Steve Austin's ear to give him a beer (because he is legit drunk rather than pretend drunk) to the point that Austin has to break character mid-promo to deal with him FullLeatherJacket fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 19, 2023 |
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May 19, 2023 20:08
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Yeah if it's not Taker being a chud, it's Taker being an oldhead who's mad he doesn't have as much clout as he used to when the wrestlers were lovely enough regularly enough for him to be a judge instead of just some out-of-touch codger they keep around for the older fans
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May 19, 2023 20:09
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The Last Call posted:The Taker is also a huge chud. he's been dropped on his head for 30 years i expect nothing less
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May 19, 2023 20:20
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tbf, I remember William Regal saying something similar that all young wrestlers do these days is play video games, but him also being smart enough to realise that a lot of the reason for that is that if cellphone cameras and the internet were around back when he was out of his gourd, he wouldn't have gotten the chances he did
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May 19, 2023 20:24
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given the choice between video games and destroying my body with drugs and alcohol i will go with the video games
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May 19, 2023 20:31
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i would also not become a pro wrestler in the first place
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May 19, 2023 20:31
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Michael P.S. Hayes has said the same thing. I think even Scott Hall has. There was a thing in the old days where if you lost a bar fight you'd be fired for making the business look bad. I think some promoters actually encouraged their wrestlers to start poo poo. So I'm sure with that mentality you're some kind of wuss if you avoid that lifestyle.
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May 19, 2023 21:48
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haku bit someones nose off in a bar brawl
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May 19, 2023 21:51
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For the longest time in wrestling going back decades you never broke character, you were that guy. If someone saw you, you better stay in character or else. Someone challenges you to a fight? You kick their rear end. One wrestler, forget his name, knocked the eyeball out of a guy and then stomped on it for good measure because that's what you did. Good guys and bad guys seen together, are you mad. They do not hang out together! Hell some families didn't even know the whole thing was made up. It was only really in the 90's that started to change and the whole keyfabe thing became known to many fans. poo poo was taken extremely serious until that point. Ted Dibiase probably got one of the best deals during his time. He was the Million Dollar Man, know what that meant? He got to fly the best ways you could, stayed in high class hotels, ate at high class restaurants. The whole works, even got some spending money to "live the gimmick".
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May 19, 2023 22:07
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The Last Call posted:For the longest time in wrestling going back decades you never broke character, you were that guy. If someone saw you, you better stay in character or else. Someone challenges you to a fight? You kick their rear end. One wrestler, forget his name, knocked the eyeball out of a guy and then stomped on it for good measure because that's what you did. Good guys and bad guys seen together, are you mad. They do not hang out together! Hell some families didn't even know the whole thing was made up. kevin nash complains about having to follow kayfabe on his podcast and how it was stupid lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODPwjekGLKA
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May 19, 2023 22:11
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big sexy ftw
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May 19, 2023 22:12
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For an example of what wrestlers weren't supposed to do: in 1987, American hero "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan and evil Iranian foreigner The Iron Sheik were in the midst of a big feud for America's honor...and then they got pulled over while riding together, with Duggan driving under the influence of marijuana and alcohol, and the Sheik high on cocaine. They both got let go from the WWF shortly after (though Duggan eventually came back a year or so later).
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May 19, 2023 22:14
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There's the Undertaker story about the whole Wrestler's Court thing where some new-ish guys in the 2000s, can't remember, but thought the whole thing was a bullshit joke so they just bribed the Undertaker with a really nice motorcycle gift of some kind, and he ruled 100% in their favor for no other reason.
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May 19, 2023 22:26
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pentyne posted:There's the Undertaker story about the whole Wrestler's Court thing where some new-ish guys in the 2000s, can't remember, but thought the whole thing was a bullshit joke so they just bribed the Undertaker with a really nice motorcycle gift of some kind, and he ruled 100% in their favor for no other reason. It was Edge and Christian. They were seen palling around with a writer, which was deemed an offense. The two of them ended up leaving a six-pack, a bottle of Jack Daniels, and a coffee table book on motorcycles for the Undertaker. Undertaker entered the room, saw the gift, left the room, and told them, "Gentlemen, I don't believe this charge will show up on your record."
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May 19, 2023 22:34
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Wrestlers Court was the last cry of the ol era where you bullied the new guys and made sure they knew their place. Most of the time it ended up with the guys having to buy Undertaker beer. The Miz got treated like poo poo for a year due to BS from Benoit and Undertaker.
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May 19, 2023 22:46
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The Last Call posted:Wrestlers Court was the last cry of the ol era where you bullied the new guys and made sure they knew their place. I don't know if it was what ended the Wrestler's Court, but I do remember it seemed to sort of die out thanks to CM Punk. I vaguely recall reading something about how, at the time, WWE expected their Punk refused to go along with that and just traveled wearing comfy clothes rather than business casual attire. Eventually the Undertaker tried to get in his rear end about it, to which Punk replied something along the lines of "Nah, I'm not doing that Wrestler's Court poo poo, if you have a problem we'll just go talk to Vince", and nothing came of it. I believe shortly after that the "dress code" requirements were eliminated or relaxed, and the whole Wrestler's Court thing eventually just faded away as a form of peer pressure/punishment (granted this was many years ago, so it's possible I might be misremembering or mixing some things up here).
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May 19, 2023 23:04
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lol they were so mad at cm punk all the time
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May 19, 2023 23:06
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The Last Call posted:The Taker is also a huge chud.  Why yes that is an SS logo
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May 19, 2023 23:07
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the smartest man to ever wrestle is kevin nash and he still has hosed up legs from it
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May 19, 2023 23:08
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What is Wrestlers Court?
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May 19, 2023 23:10
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when you're that big and that sexy, you're bound to end up with hosed-up legs no matter your lot in life
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May 19, 2023 23:12
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