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Interesting hearing some negative things about GtR. My friend has been obsessed with it since playing it once or twice over the years and has convinced me to go in with him and another guy to make our own personal Black Box editions of it. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it though so I'll let the thread tear me to pieces over my (typically) uneducated opinion: it seems like a game that is proudly imbalanced and almost wacky in its Do What Thou Wilt attitude with strategy taking a backseat to reacting well/getting lucky? Is it something that you'd ever play at 2 or is this a "need 3+" thing?
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May 19, 2023 13:23
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 13:35 |
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Yeah, pretty much, you have to react to what you are giving and hope you get the right cards in the right combination, some of the times. That's not really the issue that I have with GtR, since that's the price of admission for the game and you know that you are going to get into those kind of situations. I have more of a problem with the end-game problems. Also, the issues are more apparent the more you play it: I've enjoyed plenty of GtR games, but the more I play, the more I dislike it, especially from the initial high, which is something that's also happened to me with Twilight Struggle.
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May 19, 2023 13:27
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I strongly disliked my few plays of GtR many years ago, honestly I haven't met a Chudyk game I like.
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May 19, 2023 13:28
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GtR's mystique as a grail game is definitely bigger than the game itself. But I suspect this is the case with all grail games, apart from maybe Tigris and Euphretes. It's definitely a game of reacting well because there are so many cards flying around that you can't really plan for anything. I don't think luck is too big a factor, but I don't know the game well enough really. Normally games get too zero-sum take-thattish when played down to 2. I don't know if GtR would suffer from that because figuring out what you can do is taxing enough that you can't dedicate your brain to what your one opponent can do, and how to stop them.
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May 19, 2023 13:35
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Napoleon's Triumph is a legitimate grail game.
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May 19, 2023 13:38
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Mr. Squishy posted:GtR's mystique as a grail game is definitely bigger than the game itself. But I suspect this is the case with all grail games, apart from maybe Tigris and Euphretes. It's definitely a game of reacting well because there are so many cards flying around that you can't really plan for anything. I don't think luck is too big a factor, but I don't know the game well enough really. Normally games get too zero-sum take-thattish when played down to 2. I don't know if GtR would suffer from that because figuring out what you can do is taxing enough that you can't dedicate your brain to what your one opponent can do, and how to stop them. Yeah, I think GtR's sort of 'lol, we don't need balance' is very appealing and popular to talk about, but in play it just makes the game feel fairly arbitrary. It's sort of like how in the Magic the Gathering PC game, Shandalar, everyone oohs and awws over "they just let the broken cards be in", but frankly, they're not fun, they're pretty boring, and they make your end game deck incredibly boring.
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May 19, 2023 13:40
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silvergoose posted:I strongly disliked my few plays of GtR many years ago, honestly I haven't met a Chudyk game I like. Red7 is good, very simple and quick but still tactical. I never tried it with the "extra" rules though, and I suspect the attempt to make it more than a 10 minute filler will nobble it.
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May 19, 2023 14:04
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silvergoose posted:Napoleon's Triumph is a legitimate grail game. This and Marengo - if they really did do limited preorder and retail sales
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May 19, 2023 14:26
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Jedit posted:Red7 is good, very simple and quick but still tactical. I never tried it with the "extra" rules though, and I suspect the attempt to make it more than a 10 minute filler will nobble it. Red 7 I played a couple times, relatively recently, it was inoffensive but I didn't enjoy it at all. GtR I played a few times, long ago, and each play I liked it less until finally deciding I just hate it. Same arc as tfm for me, as it happens. Innovation I played a lot, and started by liking it well enough, but eventually found the "tableau builder with impactful text on opponents cards" problem to be so distasteful that it poisoned the game for me
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May 19, 2023 14:37
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Innovation I just find tiresome because what your tableaux ~did~ could change completely in between turns so you can't really plan anything. And I got fed up with the chorus of saying how many Trees I had.
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May 19, 2023 14:45
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I think mind mgmt is best 2v1 after a few plays. It can totally work up to 4v1 if people like the puzzle enough but players don't get a lot of actions. 2v1 I like more than 1v1 because just having 2 agents discuss out loud what they think is going on can lead to a lot of fun mind games and misdirects. Higher player counts might work better once there's a bunch of additional boxes open and weirder components too? But yeah when you have more than 2 people on the agent side it deffo means a lot less to do and a ton of quarterbacking. Which the recruiter can use against them in clever ways sometimes but YMMV.
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May 19, 2023 15:32
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Red7 is just a different take on Fluxx IMO. Really don't like it.
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May 19, 2023 15:48
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Yeah Red7 is Go Fish for people who huff paint or something like that. Chudyk, like most geniuses, is constantly on the edge of madness.
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May 19, 2023 15:53
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Glad to hear some Innovation hate ITT. When I talk about how much I don't like that game, many in my group look at me like I'm nuts.
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May 19, 2023 16:02
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Tons of loud voices in the hobby pronounce love for too. I just cannot stand the game at all at this point.
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May 19, 2023 16:04
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I remember lots of talk about Innovation as the Dominion killer. I just kept on playing Dominion.
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May 19, 2023 16:18
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Mottainai is the only Chudyk I've clicked with which seems to be the opposite of everyone else. It also plays the fastest which helps a lot.
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May 19, 2023 16:19
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still have lingering damage from when dominion isotropic shut down and tried to push its playerbase onto innovation instead 
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May 19, 2023 16:20
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The only play I had of innovation was one where I tried to push for an early win, failed, and then a random card made me win out of nowhere, and that's where I decided that the game wasn't for me.
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May 19, 2023 16:25
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I also played Innovation once, with someone who played it incessantly. It rapidly became obvious that it was impossible to play effectively without basically memorising the entire deck and myself and the third player agreed to stop. Such a bad game.
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May 19, 2023 16:27
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There's an end-game card in Innovation called Nuclear War (iirc) that resets everyone's tableux so you all have the fun of starting from scratch.
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May 19, 2023 16:55
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Mr. Squishy posted:There's an end-game card in Innovation called Nuclear War (iirc) that resets everyone's tableux so you all have the fun of starting from scratch. It's called Fission, and the game SHOULD be over by then anyway. I think it's an age 8 or 9 card and the game should rapidly be coming to a close by then. It's really in there as a hail-mary "I'm super behind and this is the only shot in hell I have" kinda thing. I think it's a fun card. Whoever was talking about a third player in an Innovation game above: Innovation is a 2 player game. Ignore what the box says, play it only at 2 players and only with people who know what they are getting into. And only with people who won't AP the living poo poo out of it. Proceed to have a good time. If I worked as a developer on the game there are definitely individual cards I'd design differently; some Age 1 and 2 cards in particular have a habit of being way too relevant into the mid game. Mathematics and Agriculture, I'm looking at you. But all in all the game is a fantastic piece of design and an awesome example of ~100 cards can really create quite a grand experience in a totally self-contained way.
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May 19, 2023 20:19
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I was curious about Innovation because I had heard good things, so I watched a lets play of it and immediately thought it looked miserable. Never played it, have no interest in playing it. It is not for me.
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May 19, 2023 20:23
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armorer posted:I was curious about Innovation because I had heard good things, so I watched a lets play of it and immediately thought it looked miserable. Never played it, have no interest in playing it. It is not for me. Innovation is straight up garbage. To be good at it you need to know every card and how it works and even then maybe your tableau gets wiped for reasons you couldn't predict.
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May 19, 2023 20:26
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Tekopo posted:... Dune imperium... a fan of market row deckbuilders Well I wasn't interested but now I am 😁 I wonder how it differs from others tho
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May 19, 2023 23:28
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I don't dislike it, but I think there's a better game to be found if they pulled the deckbuilding out of DI.
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May 19, 2023 23:37
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probably the biggest fight my now-wife and I had while we were dating was over a game of glory to rome where I was drawing complete poo poo, couldn't get a plan going at all, and eventually gave up and started dumping as much of my hand as I could via my vomitoriums every turn, eventually decking the game where if i had not, that final turn, the turn would have passed to her and she would have won with that play as it was, she did not, because she was unable to make that final play i dislike that game
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May 19, 2023 23:52
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hexwife, testily: shut your mouth and make me a caesar!
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May 20, 2023 00:00
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what's this thread's opinion on the various boss battlers out there (KDM, Oathsworn, Aeon Trespass, etc)?
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May 20, 2023 06:25
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KaptainKrunk posted:what's this thread's opinion on the various boss battlers out there (KDM, Oathsworn, Aeon Trespass, etc)? Oathsworn and Townsfolk Tussle have the best reps generally.
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May 20, 2023 07:04
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KaptainKrunk posted:what's this thread's opinion on the various boss battlers out there (KDM, Oathsworn, Aeon Trespass, etc)? HidaO-Win has informative posts about a lot of them if you check their post history here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3777631&pagenumber=560&perpage=40&userid=0#post531904219 Also please note that KDM discussion is a no go per the OP. I've been playing through ATO. Pros: - The battle system is really good and only gets more intense as you and the monster take damage. - The story is really good as far as board game stories go. - The rulebook is very good. - There is so, so, so much content. My friend and I are 30 hours in and we're not finished with the first of 3 campaigns. Cons: - It's $300. - There is a ton of upkeep. So many things to track. - You must always play 4 characters. - If you have to set this up repeatedly you will hate this game. - Huge table hog. Depends: - It is solidly 50% battle, 50% story. If you don't want 50% of the time to be reading then it might not be for you. If you are looking for a "lifestyle" game that you are either willing to solo or have a gaming group where this is the only game they want to play for a very very long time, then it may be worth it. But honestly, do you have time for this game? If you played 3 hours a week of only ATO you *might* finish the currently delivered content in a year. Luckily they have a TTS module you can try with the ongoing Kickstarter campaign so you can decide if the system clicks for you.
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May 20, 2023 07:30
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I'm partial to the Monster Hunter World game, but that's because I'm a huge mark for Monster Hunter. Some of the fights feel a little bit samey, but I do enjoy the variety in weapons and the way that combat is structured and has relatively limited randomness in the game.
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May 20, 2023 09:07
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KaptainKrunk posted:what's this thread's opinion on the various boss battlers out there The only one I have looked into is the Dark Souls one from Steamforged and it looks like complete poo poo. But it was also somewhat early for the genre.
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May 20, 2023 09:35
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I've thought this dude was a dogshit mercenary with lovely videos for years, so it's good to get some confirmation. Basically - Quackalope tried to blackmail the makers of Aeon Trespass Odyssey to change his negative review to a positive review. https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/13mm6tw/creators_of_aeon_trespass_odyssey_call_out/ Sponsored content is what it is, but "pay me or I'll call your game lovely to my 50k subscribers" seems like something else entirely.
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May 20, 2023 13:47
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Is Quack the guy who left ducks everywhere at a convention? I'm happy to update him from being a jerk to a crook, I just want to make sure I've got the same guy.
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May 20, 2023 14:04
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I'm not a huge fan of youtube/other reviewers bigging up games because they got sponsored for it, but this honestly seems equally lovely.
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May 20, 2023 14:07
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Tekopo posted:I'm not a huge fan of youtube/other reviewers bigging up games because they got sponsored for it, but this honestly seems equally lovely. I think declared sponcon is a good deal better than trying to extort some publisher behind the scenes.
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May 20, 2023 14:13
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It depends on the sponsored content in my opinion. If you try something, dislike it (or the game is outright broken), and still make an overwhelmingly positive review, I don't have much sympathy. There's sponsored content where creators are allowed or willing to voice their true opinions, and those are usually fine.
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May 20, 2023 14:16
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Tekopo posted:It depends on the sponsored content in my opinion. If you try something, dislike it (or the game is outright broken), and still make an overwhelmingly positive review, I don't have much sympathy. Okay, but you do get how general paid-in-advance sponsored content is quite a bit different from "pay us money or we're putting out a negative review", right?
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May 20, 2023 14:17
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Sure, I get it. Sponsored content can be fine, while this situation is always going to be wrong.
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May 20, 2023 14:19
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