(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Falukorv posted:The case i remember was a iraqi "illegally" taking some planks of woods from some ruined site or construction site, carrying them on the roof of his cab car when he was stopped at a checkpoint. the americans literally flatten his car with a tank. the Taliban won in Afghanistan because the US was consistently unable to offer the locals any better deal than ‘meekly obey any order we give you, indulge our every whim, and there is a chance, although not a guarantee, that we will not kill you today’
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May 20, 2023 16:50
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:51 |
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Falukorv posted:The case i remember was a iraqi "illegally" taking some planks of woods from some ruined site or construction site, carrying them on the roof of his cab car when he was stopped at a checkpoint. the americans literally flatten his car with a tank. If i'm remembering correctly he was a taxi driver too, so they essentially destroyed his living.
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May 20, 2023 17:15
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Mister Bates posted:the Taliban won in Afghanistan because the US was consistently unable to offer the locals any better deal than ‘meekly obey any order we give you, indulge our every whim, and there is a chance, although not a guarantee, that we will not kill you today’ there was a really good article after the war where someone went and interviewed women in the rural parts of the country. they talked about how the warlords simply just switched flags, and the only thing that changed was their family was now prone to getting killed from drone strikes/death squads very grim, hope the people of aghanistan become free from both someday
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May 20, 2023 17:18
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AnimeIsTrash posted:If i'm remembering correctly he was a taxi driver too, so they essentially destroyed his living. yep you are remembering correctly
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May 20, 2023 17:28
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AnimeIsTrash posted:there was a really good article after the war where someone went and interviewed women in the rural parts of the country. they talked about how the warlords simply just switched flags, and the only thing that changed was their family was now prone to getting killed from drone strikes/death squads both america and china?
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May 20, 2023 17:29
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the bitcoin of weed posted:All those countries owe substantially more foreign debt to the west than they do china president xi, repossess my sovereign debt https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/ “Countries in AP’s analysis had as much as 50% of their foreign loans from China and most were devoting more than a third of government revenue to paying off foreign debt. Two of them, Zambia and Sri Lanka, have already gone into default, unable to make even interest payments on loans financing the construction of ports, mines and power plants.”
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May 20, 2023 18:16
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quote:In the past under such circumstances, big government lenders such as the U.S., Japan and France would work out deals to forgive some debt, with each lender disclosing clearly what they were owed and on what terms so no one would feel cheated. quote:Jumping to the front of the line its literally just capitalists being big mad that china could cut to the front of the settlement payment line when the IMF and world bank cause poor countries to default
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May 20, 2023 18:47
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also lol at the two default examples provided being solely because of western loans
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May 20, 2023 18:48
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quote:Parks is not sure how many such accounts have been set up, but governments insisting on any kind of collateral, much less collateral in the form of hard cash, is rare in sovereign lending. And their very existence has rattled non-Chinese banks, bond investors and other lenders and made them unwilling to accept less than they’re owed. 
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May 20, 2023 18:51
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lmao even this story can't consistently stick with the narrativequote:a group of non-Chinese lenders refused desperate pleas from Zambia to suspend interest payments, even for a few months. That refusal added to the drain on Zambia’s foreign cash reserves, the stash of mostly U.S. dollars that it used to pay interest on loans and to buy major commodities like oil. By November 2020, with little reserves left, Zambia stopped paying the interest and defaulted, locking it out of future borrowing and setting off a vicious cycle of spending cuts and deepening poverty. quote:The IMF and World Bank (not china?) say taking losses on their loans would rip up the traditional playbook of dealing with sovereign crises that accords them special treatment because, unlike Chinese banks, they already finance at low rates to help distressed countries get back on their feet. quote:Along with the usual mix of government mismanagement and corruption are two unexpected and devastating events: the war in Ukraine, which has sent prices of grain and oil soaring, and the U.S. Federal Reserve’s decision to raise interest rates 10 times in a row, the latest this month. That has made variable rate loans to countries suddenly much more expensive so dastardly of china to engineer a war between russia and ukraine and also to force the US federal reserve to crash the finance economy on purpose
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May 20, 2023 18:54
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It's funny them blaming China for delaying debt restructuring. When the delays are caused by the US refusing to allow IMF or World Bank debt to take a haircut. China taking a haircut and the US not, effectively means China is subsidizing the US institutes getting full repayment.
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May 20, 2023 19:30
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the bitcoin of weed posted:lmao even this story can't consistently stick with the narrative I mean if you’re going to cherry pick from an article attempting to paint a complete picture, sure, I just love how this thread seems to think that china is somehow a benevolent lender when in fact they are just as exploitative as any other lender. “Much of the credit for dragging China’s hidden debt into the light goes to Parks, who over the past decade has had to contend with all manner of roadblocks, obfuscations and falsehoods from the authoritarian government. The hunt began in 2011 when a top World Bank economist asked Parks to take over the job of looking into Chinese loans. Within months, using online data-mining techniques, Parks and a few researchers began uncovering hundreds of loans the World Bank had not known about. China at the time was ramping up lending that would soon become part of its $1 trillion “Belt and Road Initiative” to secure supplies of key minerals, win allies abroad and make more money off its U.S. dollar holdings. Many developing countries were eager for U.S. dollars to build power plants, roads and ports and expand mining operations. But after a few years of straightforward Chinese government loans, those countries found themselves heavily indebted, and the optics were awful. They feared that piling more loans atop old ones would make them seem reckless to credit rating agencies and make it more expensive to borrow in the future. So China started setting up shell companies for some infrastructure projects and lent to them instead, which allowed heavily indebted countries to avoid putting that new debt on their books. Even if the loans were backed by the government, no one would be the wiser. In Zambia, for example, a $1.5 billion loan from two Chinese banks to a shell company to build a giant hydroelectric dam didn’t appear on the country’s books for years. In Indonesia, Chinese loans of $4 billion to help build a railway also never appeared on public government accounts. That all changed years later when, overbudget by $1.5 billion, the Indonesian government was forced to bail out the railroad twice. “When these projects go bad, what was advertised as a private debt becomes a public debt,” Parks said. “There are projects all over the globe like this.” In 2021, a decade after Parks and his team began their hunt, they had gathered enough information for a blockbuster finding: At least $385 billion of hidden and underreported Chinese debt in 88 countries, and many of those countries were in far worse shape than anyone knew. Among the disclosures was that China issued a $3.5 billion loan to build a railway system in Laos, which would take nearly a quarter of the country’s annual output to pay off. Another AidData report around the same time suggested that many Chinese loans go to projects in areas of countries favored by powerful politicians and frequently right before key elections. Some of the things built made little economic sense and were riddled with problems. In Sri Lanka, a Chinese-funded airport built in the president’s hometown away from most of the country’s population is so barely used that elephants have been spotted wandering on its tarmac. Cracks are appearing in hydroelectric plants in Uganda and Ecuador, where in March the government got judicial approval for corruption charges tied to the project against a former president now in exile. In Pakistan, a power plant had to be shut down for fear it could collapse. In Kenya, the last key miles of a railway were never built due to poor planning and a lack of funds.”
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May 20, 2023 19:34
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An underutilized airport and some poorly managed infrastructure projects. Dear God. We need to invade tomorrow.
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May 20, 2023 19:39
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In Training posted:An underutilized airport and some poorly managed infrastructure projects. Dear God. We need to invade tomorrow. also muh complete lack of agency as a borrower
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May 20, 2023 19:41
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if the country is building whole international airports so the big guy on top can fly to his home town once in a while, your country probably has bigger problems than irresponsible loans
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May 20, 2023 19:51
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China as a lender is about 2% more benevolent than the various agencies of financial imperialism normally responsible for debt trapping countries and that is making the entire western world order collapse into itself
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May 20, 2023 19:55
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wet_goods posted:I mean if you’re going to cherry pick from an article attempting to paint a complete picture, sure, I just love how this thread seems to think that china is somehow a benevolent lender when in fact they are just as exploitative as any other lender. and theres the lecture, lol
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May 20, 2023 19:56
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something really funny baout all the chinese debt trap articles is how they always talk about the west renegotiating loans but never forgiving them. if youre really that worried about a country falling into debt peonage shouldnt you try to alleviate that burden any way possible?
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May 20, 2023 20:10
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AnimeIsTrash posted:something really funny baout all the chinese debt trap articles is how they always talk about the west renegotiating loans but never forgiving them. if youre really that worried about a country falling into debt peonage shouldnt you try to alleviate that burden any way possible? it’s almost like there is an entire group or class perhaps? of finance overlords from a variety of countries that are wringing poorer classes of their wealth. probably nothing to worry about because we like overlords of the month this time.
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May 20, 2023 20:22
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West is mad that they actually have a competitor to contend with.
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May 20, 2023 20:23
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I'll believe China is just like every other capitalist empire when it begins deindustrializing itself. That seems like a thing that only capitalist empires do.
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May 20, 2023 20:28
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I'll believe China is just like every other capitalist empire when it begins deindustrializing itself. That seems like a thing that only capitalist empires do. ok that started ten years ago China's service sector has doubled its share of economic output over the last two decades to account for 53.3% of GDP in 2021. It surpassed the industry sector in 2013. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/103114/chinas-gdp-examined-servicesector-surge.asp#:~:text=China's%20service%20sector%20has%20doubled,the%20industry%20sector%20in%202013.
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May 20, 2023 20:33
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wet_goods posted:I mean if you’re going to cherry pick from an article attempting to paint a complete picture, sure, I just love how this thread seems to think that china is somehow a benevolent lender when in fact they are just as exploitative as any other lender. oh good the trump thread AND the d&d ukraine thread for maximum retardation
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May 20, 2023 20:46
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wet_goods posted:it’s almost like there is an entire group or class perhaps? of finance overlords from a variety of countries that are wringing poorer classes of their wealth. probably nothing to worry about because we like overlords of the month this time. do you think what china is doing in these countries is equivalent to what the west has done to these countries?
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May 20, 2023 20:47
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wet_goods posted:I mean if you’re going to cherry pick from an article attempting to paint a complete picture, sure, I just love how this thread seems to think that china is somehow a benevolent lender when in fact they are just as exploitative as any other lender. lmao
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May 20, 2023 20:47
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wet_goods posted:ok that started ten years ago SorePotato posted:Who cares loser, your spinning bowtie cannot lead me astray from Xi Jinping Thought. I live eternal in the people's heavenly army, while you, a CIA brain floating in a jar, are set to be replaced in two weeks
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May 20, 2023 20:48
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Friend wet_goods answer me this: Is or isn't the purpose of the US navy to project power around the globe? And is or isn't the purpose of the PLA navy to sink it? So who do you think is going to give you better terms on a loan?
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May 20, 2023 20:51
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In Training posted:An underutilized airport and some poorly managed infrastructure projects. Dear God. We need to invade tomorrow. no one tell them about the Bataan NPP. the world bank will lend you money to build a nuke plant on a fault line
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May 20, 2023 20:52
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wet_goods posted:ok that started ten years ago No part of that article says their industrial capacity has shrunk, only that the service industry has grown.
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May 20, 2023 20:53
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If China and IMF are competing in the same external condition in the third countries (in the business of selling debts), how is this not freest form of capitalism? What are you complaining about? If China has a superior product (of debt package ) and lower cost, shouldn't you STFU and go home? Did China threaten coup if they don't pay? Cry more.
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May 20, 2023 21:03
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Raskolnikov38 posted:oh good the trump thread AND the d&d ukraine thread for maximum retardation I’m the only one who can walk between both worlds also, nice slur wet_goods has issued a correction as of 21:24 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 21:05
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Cpt_Obvious posted:No part of that article says their industrial capacity has shrunk, only that the service industry has grown. "A shift from manufacturing to the service sectors, so that manufacturing has a lower share of total employment. Such a shift may occur even if manufacturing employment is growing in absolute terms" thats one of the measures of deindustrialization, there are a few definitions for deindustrialization but China is absolutely transitioning to a services based economy
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May 20, 2023 21:14
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No it's transitioning to having a large middle class for the first time in history. Edit: again, no talk about output just secondary signifiers like "share of GDP"
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May 20, 2023 21:15
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genericnick posted:Friend wet_goods answer me this: Is or isn't the purpose of the US navy to project power around the globe? And is or isn't the purpose of the PLA navy to sink it? So who do you think is going to give you better terms on a loan? what? is that why china is frantically building warships? no way
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May 20, 2023 21:16
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Cpt_Obvious posted:No it's transitioning to having a large middle class for the first time in history. employment in the services sector in china in raw numbers has a growing share of workers while the industrial sector has remained flat or down for years, i dont know what other metric you would use https://www.statista.com/statistics/270327/distribution-of-the-workforce-across-economic-sectors-in-china/
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May 20, 2023 21:21
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wet_goods posted:"A shift from manufacturing to the service sectors, so that manufacturing has a lower share of total employment. Such a shift may occur even if manufacturing employment is growing in absolute terms" Calling the USA c. 1880 a deindustrializing economy is moronic
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May 20, 2023 21:23
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Calling the USA c. 1880 a deindustrializing economy is moronic you’re making the assumption that nothing happened along the way that pushed industry one way or another, im not pretending that deindustrialization happens overnight
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May 20, 2023 21:30
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wet_goods posted:employment in the services sector in china in raw numbers has a growing share of workers while the industrial sector has remained flat or down for years, i dont know what other metric you would use Output. Again, output. Automation means fewer workers can make more stuff.
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May 20, 2023 21:38
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Output. Again, output. Automation means fewer workers can make more stuff. by that definition the us and china are still agrarian economies, its a lot more complicated than that which is why people usually look to GDP in an attempt to normalize things.
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May 20, 2023 21:48
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:51 |
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Sorry I didn't realize you were that much of an idiot.
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May 20, 2023 21:51
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