Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

NATO please do not liberate Karjala and hand it back to us, make them go independent or something.

We really do not need a providence with million Russian refugees living in places where regular maintenance ended in 1944.

# ? May 20, 2023 17:38

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# ? May 29, 2024 16:07

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

VDV? Nonono

Send the DVD

Of Steven seagal fearsome moves to boost morale

# ? May 20, 2023 17:39

Jasper Tin Neck: Nov 14, 2008; "Scientifically proven, rich and creamy."

Alan Smithee posted:

putin drawing so many red lines he could make a carpet

Or a bicycle path.

Keep drawing, Vova
AI on Internet, 2021

# ? May 20, 2023 17:39

Pot Smoke Phoenix: Aug 15, 2007; Smoke 'em if you gottem!; Dinosaur Gum

Ikasuhito posted:

You know, if there is one thing I appreciate about this war, it's that it showed all those years of endless hand ringing over "escalation" for the impotent cowardice it always was.

Here's the quiet part out loud:

There's a greater than zero chance that the Patriot missile system could shoot down Russia's launched nukes.

That would make Russia even more impotent, would it not?

# ? May 20, 2023 17:51

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

Western nations supplying Ukraine with F-16 planes carries enormous risks... to Russian forces.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

# ? May 20, 2023 17:52

poverty goat: Feb 15, 2004

zone posted:

sending MANPADs carries enormous risks!
sending artillery carries enormous risks!
sending HIMARS carries enormous risks!
sending modern tanks and APCs carries enormous risks!
sending modern air defense carries enormous risks!
sending long range missiles carries enormous risks!
sending modern jets and training Ukrainian pilots carries enormous risks! - YOU ARE HERE
Where will we go from now and how d'you reckon Russian weenies will cope then?

just give ukraine back their nukes already. then good loving luck nuking ukraine, russia

# ? May 20, 2023 17:55

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Pot Smoke Phoenix posted:

Here's the quiet part out loud:

There's a greater than zero chance that the Patriot missile system could shoot down Russia's launched nukes.

That would make Russia even more impotent, would it not?

A patriot would not be likely able to shoot down an intercontinental ballistic missile that's firing off MIRVs on re-entry. A cruise missile is one thing, they travel relatively slow. Even kinzhals and other hypersonic missiles travel relatively slow.

ICBM warheads re-enter the atmosphere at 4 to 5 miles per second. That's 22,000-29,000 km/h or 13,000-18,000 mph.

Kinzhals travel at 7,600 mph at their absolute ideal fastest.

By the time the warheads even reached an altitude low enough for a Patriot to intercept it, it's seconds away from an airburst detonation anyway.

A patriot would be able to shoot down strategic bombers like the Bear and the Blackjack. It could shoot down nuclear capable Iskander, Tochka-U, and Kinzhal missiles. It might even be able to shoot down the Belgorod-class nuke sub's missiles.

It cannot do a drat thing about ICBMs and neither can any other air defense system. The only way to deal with ICBMs is to shoot them down in their boost phase as it leaves the silo or launch platform. And even then you've got a window of maybe 45 seconds to do that before they hit orbital injection

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 18:01 on May 20, 2023

# ? May 20, 2023 17:57

Turrurrurrurrrrrrr: Dec 22, 2018; I hope this is "battle" enough for you, friend.

HonorableTB posted:

this parody never gets old, like most vdv paratroopers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSzAnNU4u28

Tube suggested a 2022 VDV song when watching that classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFgNbxmFd8

# ? May 20, 2023 18:01

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

NAFO: One Year of Fighting Vatniks

Kyiv Post posted:

On May 19, 2022, in the midst of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the North Atlantic Fellas Organization (NAFO) came into existence. Quickly thereafter it began to grow, using memes of Shiba Inu dogs as avatars in their Twitter profiles, to argue with Russian officials and others who voiced pro-Russian or anti-Ukraine viewpoints.

Now, NAFO is celebrating one year of existence.

The absurdity of a dog arguing with Russian officials is such that, as The Economist wrote, "NAFO's flippancy obscures its role as a remarkably successful form of information warfare."

In an earlier interview with Kyiv Post, NAFO founder Kamil Dyszewski said that "Governments from across the world, including the Ukrainian government, have been immensely positive towards NAFO and towards me as an individual. One example is TVP, the Polish state-owned media platform. They broadcasted about NAFO, which in a way serves as an endorsement. As you have probably seen before, we�ve been recognized by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, including [minister] Oleksii Reznikov, [presidential adviser] Mykhailo Podolyak and others. As far as the 'standard' West goes, we�ve been endorsed by U.S. Congressman Adam Kinzinger, as well as U.K. Minister of Defense Ben Wallace."

The Organization, aside from attacking pro-Russian narratives, has raised millions of dollars for Ukrainian charities and continues to expand, as per its motto that "NAFO expansion is non-negotiable."

To become a member is relatively straightforward: One need only to donate to their "favorite charity that supports Ukraine's defenders or make a purchase from a store that directs its profits to Ukraine." Thereafter, the donor's name and likeness are passed onto artists who craft a custom dog image for them.

Asked by Kyiv Post, one year on, if he was pleased by the growth of NAFO's founder, Kamil Dyszewski, replied "Who wouldn't be?"

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/17303

I love my fella :3

In seriousness, NAFO is the primary reason why Russian disinformation and misinformation propaganda campaigns have never been able to seriously take hold in social media about this war. It just gets drowned out by a bunch of shitposting cartoon dogs everywhere it shows up and it's remarkably effective. Information warfare is just as important as any other kind, and when your military is as dependent on international aid and keeping your friends happy as Ukraine's is, controlling the information space in that way helps safeguard your relationships with allies by reducing the amount of bullshit that gets fed to the people helping keep you alive

Edit: if you want a good example of what I'm talking about, consider that supporting Ukraine is one of the only remaining bipartisan agreements in American politics today. Even a majority of the chuds want to keep supporting Ukraine, and I would argue that's attributable to their braindead voters encountering little pro-Russian propaganda in their news feeds telling them to hate the ukroglobohomonazis because it's buried under an avalanche of memes

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 18:12 on May 20, 2023

# ? May 20, 2023 18:05

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

HonorableTB posted:

The only way to deal with ICBMs is to shoot them down in their boost phase as it leaves the silo or launch platform.

Could always hit them before the Strategic Rocket Forces even know anything's going on :unsmigghh:

# ? May 20, 2023 18:13

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Cugel the Clever posted:

Could always hit them before the Strategic Rocket Forces even know anything's going on

it was on the table back before the ussr had nukes

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/from-1945-49-the-us-and-uk-planned-to-bomb-russia-into-the-stone-age

# ? May 20, 2023 18:19

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Also I have a strong feeling this is why Ukraine finally let Wagner take the rest of Bakhmut City proper:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-lack-reserves-respond-ukrainian-counteroffensive-officials/story?id=99423993

Russia ain't got the boots anymore after Bakhmut, it served its purpose

Scraping the barrel posted:

Western officials said Russia�s forces in Ukraine are so badly depleted that Russia may lack the reserves to effectively respond to a major counteroffensive from Ukrainian troops in the coming weeks.

One official said Russia does not appear to have a dedicated reserve force to react to a major breakthrough from Ukraine.

The assessment, given by Western officials speaking on condition of anonymity to reporters, suggested they back Ukraine�s capacity to attempt an ambitious offensive soon and that the weakened state of Russian forces is increasingly favorable for it, although there was no certainty it would succeed.

While the officials could not say when the counteroffensive would begin, they said the forces Ukraine has gathered and equipped with Western help are now at an "increasingly high level of readiness."

Russia�s own forces are now so diminished that they are "stretched" and strung out along a more than 1,000-kilometer-long front line, the officials said.

One official cautioned that Ukraine still faced a "monumental" challenge to break through Russia�s lines, saying it would be a "monumental achievement for any army" and warned it was entirely possible the counteroffensive would not achieve its goals.

But, if used effectively, the assault force built up by Ukraine has "the potential for some success" on a scale ambitious enough to alter the outcome of the war, the officials said.

More than trying to retake all of Ukraine's territory, the key aim for the counteroffensive was to inflict serious enough battlefield defeats on Russian forces to alter President Vladimir Putin�s view of the war. The official said the Kremlin believes it can "win by default" by holding defensive lines and outlasting Western support for Ukraine. The counteroffensive was a chance for Ukraine to convince Putin that was no longer a tenable strategy, officials said.

"The cognitive effect from battlefield activity I think in this case is arguably more important than how many square meters of territory that they manage to achieve,� the official said.

But the officials said the quality of Russia�s troops manning those defenses was dubious, saying many were badly trained and had poor morale.

Moreover, officials said it appeared Russia had no dedicated reserve force to respond if Ukrainian was able to successfully pierce the line on a large scale.

The Western assessment was notable because it echoes similar warnings from Russian pro-war commentators recently, who have been sounding the alarm around Russia�s preparedness to defend against the counteroffensive.

Some Western countries have previously worried that major Ukrainian successes could trigger Russia to respond with nuclear weapons. But those fears have receded recently and an official said there has been a significant drop-off in Russian nuclear rhetoric.

Analysts are debating whether recent local counterattacks by Ukraine around the city of Bakhmut may be part of the counteroffensive.

Ukraine in the past several days has succeeded in forcing Russian units to retreat on the northern and southern flanks of the city, in the first advances Ukrainian forces have made in months defending the city.

The advances have triggered dire warnings from Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of Russia�s Wagner mercenary group, whose forces have spearheaded Russian efforts to take Bakhmut. Prigozhin has warned that Ukraine is now attempting to encircle the city.

Wagner is still advancing slowly inside Bakhmut but the Ukrainian successes on the city�s flanks threatens to nullify any eventual capture of the city.

The Ukrainian territorial gains themselves are small -- measured in hundreds of meters -- but independent analysts as well as Russian pro-war commentators have said they believe Ukraine is counterattacking in Bakhmut to force Russia to pull forces from other areas on the front line, thinning them for a possible main blow.

"Ukrainian formations are fulfilling the main task: forcing Russia�s Armed Forces to stretch its forces and removing the most capable fighting units from other critically important directions," a prominent Russian military blogger, who publishes on Telegram as "Rybar," wrote this week.

Ukraine appeared to continue its momentum near Bakhmut on Thursday, advancing again toward the village Sakko i Vanzetti, according to Russian and Ukrainian public statements. The U.S.-based think tank Institute for the Study of War said Ukraine has now "seized the tactical initiative" around Bakhmut.

Gen. Oleskandr Syrskyi, Ukraine�s top ground forces commander, told troops this week that Wagner forces in Bakhmut now felt like "rats in a trap" and the Russian army was now "into a stupor."

Zaluzhny is going to go down as one of the most effective and skilled military commanders of the last 100 years

# ? May 20, 2023 18:21

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Alan Smithee posted:

putin drawing so many red lines he could make a carpet

Putin drawing so many red lines he emptied the red paint stockpiles left over from the USSR.

# ? May 20, 2023 18:21

beer_war: Mar 10, 2005

spankmeister posted:

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1659906652139601921

Prigozhin claiming victory, can't help ranting about his enemies in the kremlin

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1659977239893508096?s=20

Subtitled. As said, I'm not really caught up on whether they captured 98%, 99% or 100% percent of Bakhmut, but it appears Prigozhin is, so by all means troll the poo poo out of him.

Hey Prigozhin, you missed a spot.

He also says he and Wagner will peace the gently caress out on May 25. Then it's off to Sudan, I guess.

# ? May 20, 2023 18:51

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Months of fighting and deaths above six-figures (with many more injured) to take roughly 40 km² of land that's basically useless now.

At that rate they will only need about 1.5 billion troops to take the rest of Ukraine.

The_Franz fucked around with this message at 19:00 on May 20, 2023

# ? May 20, 2023 18:57

The Locator: Sep 12, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

HonorableTB posted:

A patriot would not be likely able to shoot down an intercontinental ballistic missile that's firing off MIRVs on re-entry. A cruise missile is one thing, they travel relatively slow. Even kinzhals and other hypersonic missiles travel relatively slow.

ICBM warheads re-enter the atmosphere at 4 to 5 miles per second. That's 22,000-29,000 km/h or 13,000-18,000 mph.

Kinzhals travel at 7,600 mph at their absolute ideal fastest.

By the time the warheads even reached an altitude low enough for a Patriot to intercept it, it's seconds away from an airburst detonation anyway.

A patriot would be able to shoot down strategic bombers like the Bear and the Blackjack. It could shoot down nuclear capable Iskander, Tochka-U, and Kinzhal missiles. It might even be able to shoot down the Belgorod-class nuke sub's missiles.

It cannot do a drat thing about ICBMs and neither can any other air defense system. The only way to deal with ICBMs is to shoot them down in their boost phase as it leaves the silo or launch platform. And even then you've got a window of maybe 45 seconds to do that before they hit orbital injection

Not sure about the Patriot system, but the Aegis ballistic missile defense-equipped SM-3 Block II-A missile demonstrated it can shoot down an ICBM target on 16 Nov 2020. The US Navy SM-3 missiles demonstrated over 2 years ago the ability to knock down a ballistic missile target after re-entry.

So while you might be absolutely correct about the Patriot system, it also wouldn't surprise me if they were more capable than anyone outside of the top-secret circles actually knows.

In any case, it is doubtful that Russia would be using long range ICBM's on Ukraine, but rather air launched or short/medium range missile launched warheads.

# ? May 20, 2023 19:17

Sedgr: Sep 16, 2007; Neat!

HonorableTB posted:

The only way to deal with ICBMs is to shoot them down in their boost phase as it leaves the silo or launch platform. And even then you've got a window of maybe 45 seconds to do that before they hit orbital injection

This isn't 100%, there are some options.

e;fb

Sedgr fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 20, 2023

# ? May 20, 2023 19:22

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

The_Franz posted:

Months of fighting and deaths above six-figures (with many more injured) to take roughly 40 km² of land that's basically useless now.

At that rate they will only need about 1.5 billion troops to take the rest of Ukraine.

Do we have a Ukraine deaths? I mean its nice I guess the 40km hasn't been taken, but...

Armchairing war should be bathed in some reality

# ? May 20, 2023 19:32

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

Wee posted:

Do we have a Ukraine deaths? I mean its nice I guess the 40km hasn't been taken, but...

Armchairing war should be bathed in some reality

Wikipedia (citing NATO) puts Ukraine's casualties at 1:5 to Russia's. Russia is also probably experiencing a higher killed:wounded ratio in their casualty makeup.

# ? May 20, 2023 19:44

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Sedgr posted:

This isn't 100%, there are some options.

e;fb

We can shoot Willo567's balls into space, to attract all of the nukes and explode harmlessly in orbit .

# ? May 20, 2023 20:17

appropriatemetaphor: Jan 26, 2006

whatever happened to those mobile incinerators? were those just more vaporware?

# ? May 20, 2023 20:35

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

That's it. I'm going over there, and I'm taking your nukes. Little boys don't get to have big boy rockets. Only big boys get to have big boy rockets.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:38

Gervasius: Nov 2, 2010; Grimey Drawer

appropriatemetaphor posted:

whatever happened to those mobile incinerators? were those just more vaporware?

Those are called "T-72B3". Single-use though.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:39

Disco Pope: Dec 6, 2004; Top Class!

appropriatemetaphor posted:

whatever happened to those mobile incinerators? were those just more vaporware?

I was wondering about this too. The mobile war-crime vacuum cleaners that you only pack if you're doing war crimes. Real Big Brain stuff.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:42

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

tiaz posted:

Wikipedia (citing NATO) puts Ukraine's casualties at 1:5 to Russia's. Russia is also probably experiencing a higher killed:wounded ratio in their casualty makeup.

youre joking thats youre stats and source.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:43

poor waif: Apr 8, 2007; Kaboom

Wee posted:

youre joking thats youre stats and source.

There aren't going to be any great stats until the war is long over. Nobody knows fully, and the groups who know the most won't share.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:47

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

I know them

# ? May 20, 2023 20:51

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Storkrasch posted:

There aren't going to be any great stats until the war is long over. Nobody knows fully, and the groups who know the most won't share.

With how cagey people are about intel, you'd think there was a war on.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:55

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Storkrasch posted:

There aren't going to be any great stats until the war is long over. Nobody knows fully, and the groups who know the most won't share.

Its not world war one dude. They are known, If youre being hidden from them thats strange, because Russia and the Ukraine military and US advisors know.

# ? May 20, 2023 20:56

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

If it was peacetime they'd be like oops we misplaced precisely 263,731 individual persons existentially which is a real bummer, but they don't do they, heh gotcha krumblins!

# ? May 20, 2023 20:57

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Wee posted:

Its not world war one dude. They are known, If youre being hidden from them thats strange, because Russia and the Ukraine military and US advisors know.

Post em if you dare.

not the leaked poo poo ofc

# ? May 20, 2023 20:58

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

Wee posted:

youre joking thats youre stats and source.

no, both can be valid sources of information. also you asked in the first place so I will not be accepting poo poo from you wrt sources, if you have better let us know the "real" numbers

# ? May 20, 2023 20:58

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Hang on let me dial into SIPRNet and log into the ol' JWICS to get the latest numbers.

# ? May 20, 2023 21:01

RDM: Apr 6, 2009; I LOVE FINLAND AND ESPECIALLY FINLAND'S MILITARY ALLIANCES, GOOGLE FINLAND WORLD WAR 2 FOR MORE INFORMATION SLAVA UKRANI

Gentlemen, you can't disclose top secret files in here!

This is the war thunder room!

# ? May 20, 2023 21:04

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Dandywalken posted:

Post em if you dare.

not the leaked poo poo ofc

Exactly.

And its not my battle with reality, its just me being weirded out with yours.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? May 20, 2023 21:04

poor waif: Apr 8, 2007; Kaboom

Wee posted:

Its not world war one dude. They are known, If youre being hidden from them thats strange, because Russia and the Ukraine military and US advisors know.

Hmm yes maybe they are hiding them just like they hid the real Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin in the Cheyenne Mountain Complex before replacing them with actors and/or alien ghosts???

# ? May 20, 2023 21:05

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Storkrasch posted:

Hmm yes maybe they are hiding them just like they hid the real Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin in the Cheyenne Mountain Complex before replacing them with actors and/or alien ghosts???

Ukranian soldiers have parents and sometimes wives and children. They are also soldiers.

If they die in war people know.

You can count them.

Wee fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 20, 2023

# ? May 20, 2023 21:07

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS: Dec 10, 2003; ...blyat

Karate Bastard posted:

That's it. I'm going over there, and I'm taking your nukes. Little boys don't get to have big boy rockets. Only big boys get to have big boy rockets.

follow me I have a secret route over the Bering I've been using to sneak there and poo poo in putins diaper

# ? May 20, 2023 21:14

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Wee posted:

Ukranian soldiers have parents and sometimes wives and children. They are also soldiers.

If they die in war people know.

You can count them.

Ok, thank you for your productive contributions???

# ? May 20, 2023 21:20

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# ? May 29, 2024 16:07

poor waif: Apr 8, 2007; Kaboom

Wee posted:

Ukranian soldiers have parents and sometimes wives and children. They are also soldiers.

If they die in war people know.

You can count them.

I'm sure someone in the Ukrainian military can conjure up some kind of estimate (including TDF? foreign fighters? paramilitary organisations? only confirmed deaths or including MIAs? POWs presumed dead?), but why would that be released publicly while the war is still going on, or even to the US officials?

Russia will have to work for its intel, I doubt Ukraine will just give away valuable intel for the fun of it. The estimates that are released publicly are all clearly not correct, and the ones in in the US leaks have considerable margins of error. There aren't even known numbers of civilian deaths yet, so I doubt any real numbers will come out until any such numbers no longer hold any intel value.

# ? May 20, 2023 21:20

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