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https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23952480/ I don't see how a statement like this helps anyone, but its existence is notable as showing that blizzard recognises there's a brewing crisis to be managed here
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May 20, 2023 07:43
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Wheeee posted:if walmart and mcdonalds had official forums full of customer posters they wouldn't be any better than game forums look at any customer complaints site and search walmart or wendy's or whatever and you'll get posts that are even stupider than the steam forums. the steam forums are insanely racist and homophobic but at least they're usually somewhat coherent.
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May 20, 2023 08:12
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when my dad retired and moved away from the city he did he spent a few days reading google reviews of mcdonalds to find out which towns had the biggest dickheads to avoid moving there
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May 20, 2023 08:31
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Wheeee posted:the Starship Troopers game fuckin owns and costs as much as a single lovely OW2 skin + weapon charm
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May 20, 2023 13:51
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The REAL Goobusters posted:https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23952480/ the whole "we still wanted do do project titan" thing is hilarious imo
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May 20, 2023 14:11
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In the time it took blizzard to not make pve + 1 year, tears of the kingdom was made and shipped. Lol blizzard are so unproductive.
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May 20, 2023 14:28
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To be fair, as far as I know Bobby Kotick is responsible for sending Overwatch team on a wild goose chase and shuffling people off to other projects, and OW2 that we got was made in literally 6 months or something. It becomes more obvious if you listen to some of the developer interviews. For example they said that the On Fire and the Find Group systems are not in OW2 only because they required GUI work that they didn't have time for. It must have been really loving dire. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 14:39 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 14:37
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i actually forgot there was a perfectly good lfg system in ow1 and now im mad thanks
Jezza of OZPOS fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 14:57
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Zephro posted:Among the many things I don't get about modern Blizzard is how with all this money and so many staff they take so long to actually produce any games or content. Much smaller studios run rings round them when it comes to productivity and actually just making stuff. This is the least surprising thing about Blizzard and is not unique to them in the slightest.
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May 20, 2023 15:13
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d0grent posted:In the time it took blizzard to not make pve + 1 year, tears of the kingdom was made and shipped. Lol blizzard are so unproductive. Tears of the Kingdom development started in 2017.
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May 20, 2023 15:15
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Separating the gameplay itself from OW2, as a live service it’s been pretty terrible. They are patching and balancing a little faster but not really. Everything is way too expensive, there is like 0 way to get free new skins. The battle pass is stuffed full of garbage, they added a new worthless emote just so they could pad the battlepass and the skins sometimes don’t even follow the theme. The poo poo cherry on top of all this is that they blew up OW1 so I can’t even go back to the 6v6 that I enjoyed more.
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May 20, 2023 15:32
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mutata posted:Tears of the Kingdom development started in 2017. OW2 development started in either early 2019 or sometime in 2018 (so 1ish more year compared to totk), however blizzard said their PVE vision of the game had at least some people working on it since the launch of overwatch 1. Just to reiterate: lol.
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May 20, 2023 15:36
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All of the best owns have lots of technicalities and asterisks attached, you're right.
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May 20, 2023 16:58
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Sorry for the inaccuracy. It's less pathetic that AAA company Blizzard couldn't put out the same efforts as most indie studios in 3-4 years instead of the 5-6 used by an actually well-run company like Nintendo.
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May 20, 2023 17:21
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Doomykins posted:Sorry for the inaccuracy. It's less pathetic that AAA company Blizzard couldn't put out the same efforts as most indie studios in 3-4 years instead of the 5-6 used by an actually well-run company like Nintendo. Is that true though? Is Nintendo run well? All their games turn out? Their workers aren't exploited? They never delay or cancel games (Metroid Prime 3 right on schedule)? Did the Overwatch 2 team spend all of that time running around eating dust bunnies? I'd be content to drop my "well actually" act if gamers didn't constantly try to bludgeon me and my colleagues over the head with the most banal routine things or worse, things that rank and file devs have absolutely zero control over like schedules, corporate upheaval leading to instability and massive stress, management politics, etc. I get that I'm not exactly making friends here, but gently caress it.
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May 20, 2023 17:28
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From what I hear Nintendo does things like "put the wellbeing and integrity of the company long term first, including staff", "releasing games when they're done" and so on. However I'm not going to pretend any corporation, especially based on their public image, is a shining beacon of doing right by workers and perfectly run. Nintendo got pulled in by the TotK remark and yeah, compared to Blizzard they're looking pretty respectful. There are probably warts there if you knew where to look. I get where you're coming from. It's not fair to compare the OW2 PvE disaster to Tears of the Kingdom. I do think it's fair to compare it to similar efforts. I've played like two dozen of these kinda games in my life, or close to what the proposed PvE was. You have 4-6 players and they fight spawning waves of enemies in a FPS. Or you populate a level with scripted encounters and tell a lore blurb as you go, which really emerged as its own thing in 3D FPS in 97-99. Video game dev isn't easy but Blizzard has the experience, size and expertise to have done this in the time they gave themselves, even before smart rear end asterisks. For example, OW2 PvE benefits enormously from all the pre-existing assets from the release of OW1, largely the playable characters! Determining the exact degree of how pathetic Blizzard is is kind of meaningless, if it's Y/N then Y, this PvE debacle is pathetic. TotK isn't fair but many other similar games came out that are more appropriate comparisons. Risk of Rain 2, Darktide, etc. And I agree with your other sentiment. It's not fair, kind or remotely right to dump on any individual dev working at Blizzard and/or the OW team. They don't get to make these decisions to begin with but get to reap the hate and jokes about incompetence for it. It sucks that Bobby Kotick or whatever rear end in a top hat he delegates to gets to walk in and say "hmmmm have you tried lying to the playerbase and then cutting features to save money later?" It sucks for people who wanted to deliver the PvE mode that they're gonna have the specter of "duhhh why didn't you make the game, lazybones" hanging over their head from a sneering public. I hope they can distance themselves from it. Still a debacle and I'm still gonna laugh at Blizzard though.  I even get that if I was magically the guy in charge and tried to just "do it right and make the game, stupid" I'd be thrown out by the board of directors a year in for not making the business earnings profitable enough because I do crazy poo poo like keep the OW2 team staffed and well-paid. Capitalism bad and all that.
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May 20, 2023 17:50
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novaSphere posted:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794407452753657917/1108158501500485672/sink.mp4
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May 20, 2023 17:50
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Even as someone who wasn't interested in the PvE modes. This does make me think the game is running on fumes already.
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May 20, 2023 17:54
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Zephro posted:Among the many things I don't get about modern Blizzard is how with all this money and so many staff they take so long to actually produce any games or content. Much smaller studios run rings round them when it comes to productivity and actually just making stuff. take your pick of one or more of bad corporate structure, poor project management, unforeseen externalities (re: covid), or a scope that slowly expands outwards and eventually devours itself the blog makes it sound like it was a mostly an issue of mismanagement, in that they had an incredibly ambitious idea that they announced early before understanding the full amount of resources that would be required to be poured in to make it worthwhile as both a project and an ongoing profitable product. large productions like this demand a manager who's good at both keeping the team coordinated and on task and having the ability to recognize when something's becoming a quicksand feature so you can pull out of it early, and it sounds like that didn't go on. covid and the massive post-allegations brain drain from blizzard likely compounded this, so even if they have a somewhat workable system behind the scenes, they cannot finish it with their currently available pool of talent
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May 20, 2023 17:54
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Not to mention if it's possible to confirm rumors like "the team was gutted to go work on Diablo 4" then even harder lol, lmaos.
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May 20, 2023 17:56
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Doomykins posted:Not to mention if it's possible to confirm rumors like "the team was gutted to go work on Diablo 4" then even harder lol, lmaos. entirely believable, especially since diablo's one of their few remaining properties with the cultural cache necessary to be a breakout hit if they stick the landing
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May 20, 2023 17:57
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Doomykins posted:From what I hear Nintendo does things like "put the wellbeing and integrity of the company long term first, including staff", "releasing games when they're done" and so on. However I'm not going to pretend any corporation, especially based on their public image, is a shining beacon of doing right by workers and perfectly run. Nintendo got pulled in by the TotK remark and yeah, compared to Blizzard they're looking pretty respectful. There are probably warts there if you knew where to look.
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May 20, 2023 17:58
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IronicDongz posted:this thread is genuinely the only place where I've ever seen people have a "whatever, who cares" reaction to the cancelled pve announcement. even twitch streamers who play the game's pvp more than almost anyone else up at gm+ are pissed about it, it's really funny that someone can have their head stuck in the sand to the degree that they don't realize that a whole lot of people really really wanted this(and secondly, that there just are way more pve gamers than pvp gamers out there) RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 17:59
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Doomykins posted:From what I hear Nintendo does things like "put the wellbeing and integrity of the company long term first, including staff", "releasing games when they're done" and so on. However I'm not going to pretend any corporation, especially based on their public image, is a shining beacon of doing right by workers and perfectly run. Nintendo got pulled in by the TotK remark and yeah, compared to Blizzard they're looking pretty respectful. There are probably warts there if you knew where to look. And Blizzard has also released dozens of massive, beloved, critically acclaimed hits too. Nintendo has "It's Mario Time" https://kotaku.com/at-nintendo-working-all-night-is-mario-time-1794042341. I'll drop it.
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May 20, 2023 18:12
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mutata posted:Is that true though? Is Nintendo run well? All their games turn out? Their workers aren't exploited? They never delay or cancel games (Metroid Prime 3 right on schedule)? Did the Overwatch 2 team spend all of that time running around eating dust bunnies? I'd be content to drop my "well actually" act if gamers didn't constantly try to bludgeon me and my colleagues over the head with the most banal routine things or worse, things that rank and file devs have absolutely zero control over like schedules, corporate upheaval leading to instability and massive stress, management politics, etc. I get that I'm not exactly making friends here, but gently caress it. Hey man, we all have jobs that suck, I don’t know what you want us to say. I’m sure my auto-job has a ton of people that hate the cars I worked on, it doesn’t make their concerns and issues less valid though and much like you I’m just a cog in the machine.
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May 20, 2023 18:13
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You have the population en masse coming emailing you about your cars and why did you make the car have 4 wheels what are you a loving idiot don't you know that the only way to do cars is 3 wheels why can't you make cars with 3 wheels, are you stupid? Here's a photograph of your house, you loving rear end in a top hat, I know your address now. Sorry, but I've seen the pipeline a lot over the years. A game publisher makes a corporate decision like any company, gamers get mad online, gamers literally make up reasons to be mad about poo poo they don't understand, and then game devs get harassed and threatened PERSONALLY. And no, I'm not accusing specific individuals in this thread of that, but it's literally this same process every time, and that process is playing out in this thread. I'm gonna keep posting about it because it's the only dopamine I get these days, I guess. Edit: To address your comments more directly, yes I am saying that "lol they worked on OW2 for a long time, they're such idiots. Not like Nintendo!" is NOT a legitimate criticism and is in fact part of the above cycle. So sure, some complaints and criticisms are legitimate. Many are not. Many also feed into a machine that propagates abuse because 'where my video game?!' mutata fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 18:22
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The rank and file Blizzard devs did nothing wrong, apart from a few things
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May 20, 2023 18:27
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mutata posted:And Blizzard has also released dozens of massive, beloved, critically acclaimed hits too. has blizzard even released two dozen games? I mean I guess it depends on how you slice wow and hearthstone releases I just think dozens is a funny word to use here
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May 20, 2023 18:35
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So they waited so long to announce the cancellation because they didn’t want it to effect how much Microsoft would be interested in buying them?
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May 20, 2023 18:36
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mutata posted:You have the population en masse coming emailing you about your cars and why did you make the car have 4 wheels what are you a loving idiot don't you know that the only way to do cars is 3 wheels why can't you make cars with 3 wheels, are you stupid? Here's a photograph of your house, you loving rear end in a top hat, I know your address now.
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May 20, 2023 18:44
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there'd be significantly fewer sour grapes over the whole thing if PVE hadn't been explicitly and directly what killed OW1's momentum it's not just that a much-anticipated feature was cancelled, or that the main justification for the product's transition from OW1 to OW2 was axed, it's that the game's core fanbase suffered through two years of maintenance mode for the promise of something that's now never coming
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May 20, 2023 18:53
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Valentin posted:has blizzard even released two dozen games? I mean I guess it depends on how you slice wow and hearthstone releases I just think dozens is a funny word to use here I'm already gunning for king of pedantry itt, so why not. I count 27 well-received releases in their history, and yes this includes WoW expansions. For all intents and purposes they are developed, built, and marketed the same as any standalone release.
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May 20, 2023 18:56
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Vermain posted:take your pick of one or more of bad corporate structure, poor project management, unforeseen externalities (re: covid), or a scope that slowly expands outwards and eventually devours itself It's still amusing / sad that the same company that built an MMO almost from the ground up in 5 years failed to bolt a PVE mode onto an existing game in 3.5 years despite the benefit of starting with a fully-developed engine, art assets for every character, all the backend infrastructure and development tools already in place, etc etc.
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May 20, 2023 20:03
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Zephro posted:My assumption is it's mostly a mix of bad corporate structure, misaligned incentives, and the fact that any company beyond a certain size gets slowly overwhelmed by bureaucracy because it becomes harder and harder to coordinate people's work informally, and formal structures are slow and worse in almost every way. I imagine a lot of the (doubtless very talented and hard-working) devs spend a lot of their time spinning their wheels as a result. (I mean the blog post basically says as much). i think this passes the smell test, especially when you consider that they'd already done PVE missions beforehand, so the backbone framework was something they had well in-hand. gamedev's obviously not straightforwards, and, "surely it can't be that hard to add X," is the worst thing you can say to a programmer, but the degree of extra complexity needed to have a basic, functioning PVE format doesn't seem so far out of reach that nearly 3 years of coordinated dev time couldn't produce anything at the end of it
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May 20, 2023 20:08
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Endorph posted:the steam forums are insanely racist and homophobic but at least they're usually somewhat coherent. With all due respect "they're racist and homophobic but at least they're coherent" is a wild statement to make in defense of anything
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May 20, 2023 20:34
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Doomykins posted:From what I hear Nintendo does things like "put the wellbeing and integrity of the company long term first, including staff", "releasing games when they're done" and so on. However I'm not going to pretend any corporation, especially based on their public image, is a shining beacon of doing right by workers and perfectly run. Nintendo got pulled in by the TotK remark and yeah, compared to Blizzard they're looking pretty respectful. There are probably warts there if you knew where to look. I have never seen anything to suggest the work ethic at nintendo is anything other than the same super demanding crunch and extreme stress as other studios. People put up with it because they are working for a decent salary for Shigeru Miyamoto, rather than for the equivalent of minimum wage for bosses who had to have their names patch out of their games because of sexual misconduct. Their one saving grace of nintendo tho is they've never done layoffs/redundancies as far as I'm aware. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 20:37
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novaSphere posted:With all due respect "they're racist and homophobic but at least they're coherent" is a wild statement to make in defense of anything
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May 20, 2023 20:51
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The Grumbles posted:Their one saving grace of nintendo tho is they've never done layoffs/redundancies as far as I'm aware. They've shut down entire studios that they own, I don't know what to call that other than mass layoffs?
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May 20, 2023 20:57
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This Nintendo derail has gone on long enough, I say, putting away my gorilla tie and putting on my gorilla spacesuit and jetpack
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May 20, 2023 20:59
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I visited the XCOM2 steam forum because I had questions and the top thread was like "XCOM3 will be WOOOOOOKKKEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!" with one dude ranting about how everyone is going to hell for being trans and another dude crying about bud lights
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May 20, 2023 21:07
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