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Dylan16807
May 12, 2010

Ok Comboomer posted:

Also Dolby is no longer in the business of licensing their cassette noise reduction IP, which was a key part of what made the compact cassette viable and successful as a mass-market format that could hold its own against both vinyl and CD. Current production players have to make do with a knockoff version of Dolby B that isn’t as good as the genuine article, and zero Dolby C/etc for more exotic tape materials.

Is it too hard to reverse engineer exactly how it worked? Any patents are long dead.

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Wayne Knight
May 11, 2006

I get all my hitclips on discogs.
https://www.discogs.com/search?format_exact=HitClips

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.



knowing these exist physically hurts me. not, like, getting kicked in the nuts bad, but like shaking a hot sauce bottle without tightening the cap and having some of it fly up your nose and also now your clothes smell like hot sauce bad.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine

olives black posted:

knowing these exist physically hurts me. not, like, getting kicked in the nuts bad, but like shaking a hot sauce bottle without tightening the cap and having some of it fly up your nose and also now your clothes smell like hot sauce bad.

This is an oddly specific kind of bad and yet I can totally relate.

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.
not sure what this dude's beef with Diane Bish is and his knock against lo-fi metal is cheap but this got a lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEYXS4NxFA

Discussion Quorum posted:

This is an oddly specific kind of bad and yet I can totally relate.

A fellow klutz and hot sauce enjoyer. Good tidings to you :)

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Who the gently caress is Diane Bish

Take the plunge! Okay!
Feb 24, 2007



bird with big dick posted:

Who the gently caress is Diane Bish

According to Wikipedia, she has a show about notable organs

Gramps
Dec 30, 2006


I know I was just I know I was just raving about focal monitors on the last page But their updated Evo series is out now. The setup in this review only costs a few thousand dollars without the sub And they go down to 38 Hz. Add the sub and you can pretty much cover anything.

https://musictech.com/reviews/studio-recording-gear/focal-alpha-twin-evo-and-sub-one-review/

Gramps
Dec 30, 2006


Edit: quote=/=edit

Gramps fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 23, 2023

Sorbus
Apr 1, 2010

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Find me ones that don’t hiss at idle. Please. That’s what keeps breaking my heart.

Genelecs.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

Sorbus posted:

Genelecs.

If any self-powered speakers have audible noise without any connectors physically plugged into them then they’re poorly designed. If you hear noise when connecting an upstream device to them, then you just need to set your gain structure appropriately.

Going from consumer reference level kit where “zero” is -10 dBV to a studio monitor that expects professional standard reference level of +4 dBu often leads people to crank up the input sensitivity trim knobs up on the amplifier which then just massively amplifies the noise floor of the entire signal chain.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Acu5FLj-D_Q

I see a lot of supposedly “qualified professionals” skip this really basic yet important step when configuring any audio kit, so am pretty drat certain the required gain adjustments aren’t accounted for when audiophiles compare kit.

Branch Nvidian
Nov 29, 2012



Is there any honest to god actual reasons to buy something like one of the new Walkman DAPs in TYOOL202? I’m looking at one of the low end Sony NW-A306 Walkman units, but techtubers who think they can hear differences in power cables make it seem like mostly smoke & mirrors, and companies are all too happy to fleece audiophiles, and wannabe audiophiles, of their money. I had a set of AirPods Pro 2, a set of Sony WF-1000XM4s, and a wired pair of Sennheiser HD560s. I use Apple Lightning-to-3.5mm or USB-C-to-3.5mm dongles when I want to use my Sennies on my phone or iPad. Is a dedicated DAP really gonna be any better?

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Some people don't like using their phones as music players because of the potential for interruptions or because they want to use local files and don't want to fill up their phone's storage because they need it for other things. If neither of these things apply to you then no, you don't need a DAP.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

There are legit reasons but they’re limited:
- library too big to fit on your phone
- need to use in a place phones aren’t allowed
- going somewhere with no power or network service for an extended time [vacation house maybe]

I don’t see any use case for the ones that cost more than a decent budget phone, those are just audiophile bling. You can get a portable DAC that can drive pretty much any headphone except electrostatics for cheap now.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

- support playing cassette tapes

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


qirex posted:

There are legit reasons but they’re limited:
- library too big to fit on your phone
- need to use in a place phones aren’t allowed
- going somewhere with no power or network service for an extended time [vacation house maybe]

I don’t see any use case for the ones that cost more than a decent budget phone, those are just audiophile bling. You can get a portable DAC that can drive pretty much any headphone except electrostatics for cheap now.

Yeah this is the other thing, most DAPs at around $100-200 are excellent. Everything else is Youtuber bait.

Mr. Mercury
Aug 13, 2021



Also if you travel a lot, I suppose

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
I'm clinging to my ancient iPod classic with my fingernails because it has a clickwheel and that's a lot easier for my visually-impaired self to use than a screen.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Fortunately maintaining and even full restoring an old iPod is easy so long as the motherboard hasn't croaked. I should get my monochrome screen 4th gen back in business now I think about it.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

njsykora posted:

Fortunately maintaining and even full restoring an old iPod is easy so long as the motherboard hasn't croaked. I should get my monochrome screen 4th gen back in business now I think about it.

Yeah? That's good to know. I also have a little nano I use on the regular - that *does* have a touchscreen but it's teeny. One of the little square ones. I had a first gen nano that I killed with damp, and then they recalled them for a battery issue or something and I send mine in because why not, and they replaced it anyway. Love that little thing.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


HopperUK posted:

Yeah? That's good to know. I also have a little nano I use on the regular - that *does* have a touchscreen but it's teeny. One of the little square ones. I had a first gen nano that I killed with damp, and then they recalled them for a battery issue or something and I send mine in because why not, and they replaced it anyway. Love that little thing.

Nanos are not easy to maintain, they’re nightmares. Classics though are very simple and people still make new batteries and mods to replace the hard drive. I have an iPod Video with 128gb of storage and a year ago gave it a new battery and a new headphone jack assembly so that thing feels brand new.

Branch Nvidian
Nov 29, 2012



Thanks for the replies. I do not need a DAP in this case.


njsykora posted:

Nanos are not easy to maintain, they’re nightmares. Classics though are very simple and people still make new batteries and mods to replace the hard drive. I have an iPod Video with 128gb of storage and a year ago gave it a new battery and a new headphone jack assembly so that thing feels brand new.

My dad still uses an iPod Classic 7th Gen I gave him several years ago. If the thing ever shits the bed I'm going to do one of those SD card mods and give him a 1TB upgrade.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
Yeah the main iPod is a big old classic. Great to hear they're so fixable, thank you!

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.
I'm just stocking up on old Walkmans and hoping that I can fix them. I am rapidly becoming an old coot who wants to push an actual goddamn button to make the fun sounds come out.

I'm maybe a few months out from getting a rotary phone and a cassette answering machine.

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer
I miss my Zune 120 :saddowns:

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.
New Scientific Audiophile dropped.

https://youtu.be/-r2yQ2_Al_g

tl;dw it sounds fine but it'll be a brick in a few years because it requires the mobile app to function.

That poo poo really ought to be illegal. Huge unconscionable waste of natural resources.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

olives black posted:

New Scientific Audiophile dropped.

https://youtu.be/-r2yQ2_Al_g

this dude slaps

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Weird to call out Sonos who has probably the longest support period of any company that makes streaming stuff. Yeah they hosed the dog with their upgrade strategy but a big part of that was that they still supported every piece of hardware they’d ever made up until that point. Plus after they got yelled at enough they continued support for the old hardware.

Bose sold a couple million 30 pin iPod docks and how many of those do you think are still in service?

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

🛑 Don't get your pen🖊️, son, you won't be 👌 needing that 😌. My 🥡 order's 💁 simple😉, a shitload 💩 of dim sims 🌯🀄. And I want a bucket 🪣 of soya sauce☕😋.

olives black posted:

New Scientific Audiophile dropped.

https://youtu.be/-r2yQ2_Al_g

tl;dw it sounds fine but it'll be a brick in a few years because it requires the mobile app to function.

That poo poo really ought to be illegal. Huge unconscionable waste of natural resources.

It’s Sonos, didn’t they get in some kind of trouble for bricking perfectly functional gear a while back?

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.

qirex posted:

Weird to call out Sonos who has probably the longest support period of any company that makes streaming stuff. Yeah they hosed the dog with their upgrade strategy but a big part of that was that they still supported every piece of hardware they’d ever made up until that point. Plus after they got yelled at enough they continued support for the old hardware.

Bose sold a couple million 30 pin iPod docks and how many of those do you think are still in service?

It's not weird to call out any company that ties an expensive piece of equipment like an amplifier to a loving proprietary mobile app. Not even the mid-rear end Denon home theater receiver that I took back two weeks ago did that poo poo. You could still scoot around all of the menus using the output monitor and the remote.

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

🛑 Don't get your pen🖊️, son, you won't be 👌 needing that 😌. My 🥡 order's 💁 simple😉, a shitload 💩 of dim sims 🌯🀄. And I want a bucket 🪣 of soya sauce☕😋.

olives black posted:

You could still scoot around all of the menus using the output monitor.

Which is how it should be. I have a Denon home theatre amp, I only have it connected to my network so I can AirPlay stuff to it but it functions just fine as an amp and should continue to do so indefinitely.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

qirex posted:

Bose sold a couple million 30 pin iPod docks and how many of those do you think are still in service?

At least two, after I repaired the connector and ribbon cable on the second old one my stepdad has and stuck a $15 Bluetooth receiver on the 30-pin connector.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


qirex posted:

- need to use in a place phones aren’t allowed

There is an area where I work that processes 1000's of Sensitive PII items each day. I feel like the folks that work in that (and ones like it) are keep the portable CD player player market in business. You are not allowed anything with a camera.. or data connection in the work area.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

olives black posted:

It's not weird to call out any company that ties an expensive piece of equipment like an amplifier to a loving proprietary mobile app. Not even the mid-rear end Denon home theater receiver that I took back two weeks ago did that poo poo. You could still scoot around all of the menus using the output monitor and the remote.
That's what they sell, it's Sonos' whole value proposition that it's a "smart" audio system that's easier to set up and use than an AVR. They made a decision for it to be that way. It also requires a server if you're doing local file streaming so it's not really possible to use it without other systems. I believe you can still set it up using a computer but they've definitely been moving functionality from the desktop app to the mobile app which is annoying. You can get a similarly specced amplifier or AVR for a lot less money and the Sonos Amp or Bluesound Powernode aren't keeping other things from being on the market. Adding a menu system, screen and video output would change the product radically.

tater_salad posted:

There is an area where I work that processes 1000's of Sensitive PII items each day. I feel like the folks that work in that (and ones like it) are keep the portable CD player player market in business. You are not allowed anything with a camera.. or data connection in the work area.
That doesn't sound very alpha growth mindset, just give prod access to interns who work remotely if you want to be like a real tech company.

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.

qirex posted:

That's what they sell, it's Sonos' whole value proposition that it's a "smart" audio system that's easier to set up and use than an AVR. They made a decision for it to be that way.

It's an indefensible decision, and it should be illegal to mass produce devices like this that are locked down in this way.

qirex posted:

It also requires a server if you're doing local file streaming so it's not really possible to use it without other systems.

Local file servers can be swapped out. Hard-coded dependencies on proprietary mobile apps cannot (at least not without some lucky hacking).

qirex posted:

I believe you can still set it up using a computer but they've definitely been moving functionality from the desktop app to the mobile app which is annoying. You can get a similarly specced amplifier or AVR for a lot less money and the Sonos Amp or Bluesound Powernode aren't keeping other things from being on the market.

They are, however, saddling people with expensive bricks that will eventually wind up in landfills (or at the very least be costly to recycle). They're also requiring the extra mining and refinement of materials to make devices that aren't poo poo.

qirex posted:

Adding a menu system, screen and video output would change the product radically.

No it wouldn't Well, adding some non-proprietary means of accessing its controls wouldn't, anyway. If it's already doing network streaming, then there's nothing stopping them from setting up some non-radical means of squeezing an SSH key in there somewhere.

qirex posted:

That doesn't sound very alpha growth mindset, just give prod access to interns who work remotely if you want to be like a real tech company.

After reading the rest of your post, I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a joke or not.

olives black fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jun 1, 2023

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

olives black posted:

No it wouldn't Well, adding some non-proprietary means of accessing its controls wouldn't, anyway. If it's already doing network streaming, then there's nothing stopping them from setting up some non-radical means of squeezing an SSH key in there somewhere.
Define "non-proprietary" because to an average customer SSHing into something they own is a million percent more inaccessible than having to download an app. I'm pretty sure all the streaming partners they deal with would not be very happy if consumers had access to the "metal" of their DRMed streaming systems. There's a reason Sonos is the only company that actually supports Apple Music on third party hardware and I'd guess it has something to do with how locked down the platform is [plus they are willing to pay what I'm sure are exorbitant license fees]. I also feel like you vastly underestimate the amount of time and resources it takes to design, develop and maintain multiple front ends to a system. I've done it myself, it sucks.

I'm team dumb endpoint nowadays [that said even Wiim stuff needs an app to set up] but after investigating the alternatives to "closed" hardware I get why they're so successful. If you want to hand janitor a Raspberry pi and a creaky jenga tower of open source libraries you can and nobody's stopping you but your average audio buyer is never going to do that and big companies aren't going to pursue that market. If you'ver never set up a Sonos product it is insanely quick and easy compared to every alternative on the market. Sonos' target market for the Amp is a professional installer sticking 12 of them in a rack as part of a $50,000 "whole house smart home" project for a rich person's mansion. That's why they pour so many resources into working with stuff like Control4, Lutron, Josh, etc. Why they don't make a rackmount with 5 endpoints in it and sell it for 5 grand I will never understand.

quote:

After reading the rest of your post, I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a joke or not.
I love this thread so much because it constantly walks a line between funny and serious content

olives black
Nov 24, 2017


LENIN.
STILL.
WON'T.
FUCK.
ME.

qirex posted:

Define "non-proprietary" because to an average customer SSHing into something they own is a million percent more inaccessible than having to download an app. I'm pretty sure all the streaming partners they deal with would not be very happy if consumers had access to the "metal" of their DRMed streaming systems. There's a reason Sonos is the only company that actually supports Apple Music on third party hardware and I'd guess it has something to do with how locked down the platform is [plus they are willing to pay what I'm sure are exorbitant license fees].

Cool, make laws that put their nuts on the dresser too.

qirex posted:

I also feel like you vastly underestimate the amount of time and resources it takes to design, develop and maintain multiple front ends to a system. I've done it myself, it sucks.

I like it better than the alternative of thousands of these things winding up in a landfill.

qirex posted:

I'm team dumb endpoint nowadays [that said even Wiim stuff needs an app to set up] but after investigating the alternatives to "closed" hardware I get why they're so successful. If you want to hand janitor a Raspberry pi and a creaky jenga tower of open source libraries you can and nobody's stopping you but your average audio buyer is never going to do that and big companies aren't going to pursue that market.

Fair, but if not for capitalism they could be forced to have some sort of standardized interface so that some open source team could make an alternative mobile app to keep these things in operation after Sonos et al. are done maintaining them for whatever reason.

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer
I just use my Wiim mini streamer after my Sonos connect died on me. Cheaper and easier to setup than a RasPI streamer, supports a lot of streaming services as well as local servers, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't rely on an internet connection for local playback. I'm sure it'll be a lot easier to crack and reverse engineer an alternative app if the developers go tits up or abandon the hardware than for an equivalent Sonos product.

Though I would love to see it enshrined into law as a legal requirement that they have to either engineer open API's/enable 100% local functionality without talking to company servers/release source code/etc. Once they've reached end of life/support on a product/software. SaaS style products are a capitalist wet dream engineered to extract recurrent revenue over time.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Right to repair and open access are in direct opposition to DRM which is the glue that holds the whole streaming universe together. This is bad but it is the reality of the situation. Basically every doomsday scenario the EFF people were yelling about on Slashdot in the late 90s came true. In a just and sane universe companies would need to have an end of life plan for hardware, software and content [see HBO and Disney memory holing stuff they don't want to pay royalties on] but as it stands the media companies have multiple pet senators and EU reps.

In conclusion Sonos is a land of contrasts and having watched a few of his videos that guy isn't as entertaining as he thinks he is.

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Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Bargearse posted:

Which is how it should be. I have a Denon home theatre amp, I only have it connected to my network so I can AirPlay stuff to it but it functions just fine as an amp and should continue to do so indefinitely.

Denon/Marantz also have an app called Heos that's a bit basic app wise, but let's you stream pretty much anything on their amps from the amps themselves, as well as remote control them etc.

All the main services are there and even poo poo like Deezer. Plus network streaming ofc.

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