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Voyager is comfort food Star Trek. You know what you are getting when you boot up an episode and that's that
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May 23, 2023 19:38
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Feldegast42 posted:Voyager is comfort food Star Trek. You know what you are getting when you boot up an episode and that's that It's also extremely bingeable, on account of no overarching plot or character development. You can zone out for half an episode or season and not really miss anything. I think it's extremely mediocre basically, with some really bad episodes too. And it's a shame, because the premise of the show is good, and honestly a lot of the early alien species had potential, like a lot of the plots, but it's like the writers room just found the worst and blandest angle and went with that.
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May 23, 2023 20:09
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There's some bangers in there. Most of the two parters good, and you get things like The Thaw or Jetrel. But yea the premise was wasted.
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May 23, 2023 20:30
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BonHair posted:It's also extremely bingeable, on account of no overarching plot or character development. You can zone out for half an episode or season and not really miss anything. The "other version" that is the BSG went to the other end of the spectrum, everything is always a turn to the worse, and in the end the writing room just gave up and went "it was angels and God deal with it".
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May 23, 2023 21:03
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Yeah of the two, while BSGs highs are unbearably high the fall ruined it. I'll never rewatch it even the good parts, while I've rewatched Voyager plenty of times. In the end being the most 7/10 Teek possible means it's still...fine.
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May 23, 2023 21:05
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Der Kyhe posted:The "other version" that is the BSG went to the other end of the spectrum, everything is always a turn to the worse, and in the end the writing room just gave up and went "it was angels and God deal with it". It was always steeped in religion and god did it. There are multiple points throughout all seasons where something happens that can only be attributable to divine intervention, such as showing up in a star system with a supernova about to go off. I get a lot of people hate religious themes, but religious themes are something RDM loves to put in his stuff. Doesn't make it inherently bad. That being said I didn't like who the final five were, didn't like the reveal, but to say that VOYAGER is better than BSG because you didn't like the BSG finale is absurd.
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May 23, 2023 21:09
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I really don't get the BSG hate. It's true that the Cylons didn't actually have a plan, and the writers admitted they decided the "final five" at random. But the overall arc - the cyclical nature of humankind and cylon-kind rising and falling, with God watching at a distance, was there from the very beginning. And I love the Cylons. It would've been so easy to make them a monolithic set of villains, but instead they emerge as a compelling and varied set of characters. Voyager had some very good episodes - even entire arcs - but it so often felt like filler. And it was the beginning of Trek's over-reliance on time travel, which Enterprise carried with it to unfortunate results.
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May 23, 2023 21:21
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In retrospect the bigger betrayal of BSG by far was when they decided to start hitting the reset button in the third season.
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May 23, 2023 21:22
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zoux posted:It was always steeped in religion and god did it. There are multiple points throughout all seasons where something happens that can only be attributable to divine intervention, such as showing up in a star system with a supernova about to go off. I get a lot of people hate religious themes, but religious themes are something RDM loves to put in his stuff. Doesn't make it inherently bad. I didn't hate it for the finale, I did hate it for how gloomy it was at all, well most, of the time. The setting was very good, but after certain amount of time you really burn out on the "this good thing... was actually a really bad thing" -writing repeated over and over and over again. And yes I know that its basically Ronald D. Moore's "thing".
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May 23, 2023 21:25
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Der Kyhe posted:I didn't hate it for the finale, I did hate it for how gloomy it was at all, well most, of the time. The setting was very good, but after certain amount of time you really burn out on the "this good thing... was actually a really bad thing" -writing repeated over and over and over again. And yes I know that its basically Ronald D. Moore's "thing". That's a good way of putting it. One reason I've really taken to Babylon 5 so well is that it's never felt like a slog as BSG did. B5 has gone to some pretty dark (literally) places but there are a lot of breaks from the doom-and-gloom where you get glimpses of hope. That makes it more satisfying to watch (imo). Also, I think B5's way of introducing intrigue/mystery that keeps viewers wanting to learn more has been better than BSG's, quite frankly. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 21:28
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Der Kyhe posted:I didn't hate it for the finale, I did hate it for how gloomy it was at all, well most, of the time. The setting was very good, but after certain amount of time you really burn out on the "this good thing... was actually a really bad thing" -writing repeated over and over and over again. And yes I know that its basically Ronald D. Moore's "thing". What was the bad thing
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May 23, 2023 21:31
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zoux posted:What was the bad thing Everything.
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May 23, 2023 21:33
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zoux posted:What was the bad thing I think (BSG S4? spoiler)Dee's suicide is the big one for a lot of people, where from a narrative standpoint it just feels needlessly cruel in how it's done in the episode
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May 23, 2023 21:40
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I wouldn't say BSG was 'drowning' in god poo poo. At least not for the first two seasons. It had a heavy play on drama and manipulation and the tension between could it be good or psychological damage. Revealing it was god was just completely awful to me and ruined what I did enjoy in those first two good seasons.
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May 23, 2023 21:40
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The first two seasons are only "not drowning in god poo poo" only in comparison to the rest of it. But the whole time the Cylons are waging a holy war. The tagline for the show was "God has a plan for you" which was referenced in the first episode.
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May 23, 2023 21:42
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Yeah, '33' is literally Head Six pushing Gaius into swearing allegiance to her god and showing that he can be divinely punished/rewarded for his actions. People didn't want it to be religious so they pretend the obvious stuff wasn't actually about religion.
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May 23, 2023 21:44
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CainFortea posted:The first two seasons are only "not drowning in god poo poo" only in comparison to the rest of it. But the whole time the Cylons are waging a holy war. Yeah but they could've just been religious extremists. By those standards Stargate is also drowning in god poo poo. They were the villains. The god stuff is fine when it's on the villains side.
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May 23, 2023 21:45
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The end of S1 - the Kobol’s Last Gleaming two-parter - is when the God stuff starts coming to the forefront for Roslin, with the prophecy of Earth and the first sight of the opera house.
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May 23, 2023 21:46
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:In retrospect the bigger betrayal of BSG by far was when they decided to start hitting the reset button in the third season. New Caprica was the point of no return for BSG when they had to either reveal the remaining five Cylon models at all once, or come up with a clever explanation for why they hadn't been revealed yet, and they chose the latter and... it did not go well for them because the rest of the show started to collapse around that choice.
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May 23, 2023 21:46
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Gaz-L posted:I think (BSG S4? spoiler)Dee's suicide is the big one for a lot of people, where from a narrative standpoint it just feels needlessly cruel in how it's done in the episode Great timing on the tomato soup ad right after that scene though, just big splashes of bright red soup everywhere
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May 23, 2023 21:48
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Prophecy, destiny, even being a chosen one can be done without overt religiosity that gets people to sit up and take notice. That's something that happens *to* people and not something that they *do*.
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May 23, 2023 21:48
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The biggest letdown of BSG is that the entire time they keep promising to show you what's really going on, why all this stuff keeps looking like god did it. Then you find out god did it.
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May 23, 2023 21:50
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Delsaber posted:Great timing on the tomato soup ad right after that scene though, just big splashes of bright red soup everywhere Not only that the song they use is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwxYn8bZVtk&t=17s
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May 23, 2023 22:00
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zoux posted:There are multiple points throughout all seasons where something happens that can only be attributable to divine intervention, such as showing up in a star system with a supernova about to go off. I'm pretty sure more unlikely poo poo has happened in Star Trek even in episodes without some alien god meddling
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May 23, 2023 22:11
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Yeah like when all those supernovas were happening for no reason in the DQ in that one episode of Voyager, which was in no way related to any kind of god or omnipotent being. The BSG supernova thing I specifically remember because I can remember watching it and thinking the odds of them just showing up in this system with a star that's about to go supernova is insanely improbable and then Gaeta was like "the odds of us just showing up in this system with a star that's about to go supernova are insanely improbable" and I was like, oh they're doing a thing. zoux fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 22:17
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I tried watching BSG recently and just gave up, I only saw parts of it when it was relatively new and didn't get through enough to critique it besides I just didn't enjoy watching it, characters all so murky off the bat there's really nobody I'm invested in and if the show is gonna be stressing tension all the time I need someone to get behind to want to see it through for them.
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May 23, 2023 22:21
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Khanstant posted:I tried watching BSG recently and just gave up, I only saw parts of it when it was relatively new and didn't get through enough to critique it besides I just didn't enjoy watching it, characters all so murky off the bat there's really nobody I'm invested in and if the show is gonna be stressing tension all the time I need someone to get behind to want to see it through for them. You started with the miniseries right? Just checking, because that’s where all the character intros are.
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May 23, 2023 22:23
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I admired BSG's audacity, even when I didn't *like* it. There's a lot to be said for storytelling that commits to its premise and refuses to be embarrassed by it.
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May 23, 2023 22:31
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Tunicate posted:I'm pretty sure more unlikely poo poo has happened in Star Trek even in episodes without some alien god meddling The whole context to the "arriving in a system with a supernova that's about to go off" is that they arrived in a system where a supernova is about to go off and find a temple built by the Thirteenth Tribe that will reveal the identities of the Final Five Cylons, but will only do so while the supernova in question is actively in the process of exploding. That's where the "improbable God did it" poo poo comes into play.
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May 23, 2023 22:38
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I think BSG lost me when they had the "good guys" crush a labour strike by threatening to blow the union leader's wife out an airlock, the rest of the religious stuff was as unsatisfying as it is IRL but given that BSG was always based on a religious epic at least it wasn't wholly unexpected a lot of that show ended up on a disappointing note but the extremely post 9/11ishness of it all has really not aged well
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May 23, 2023 22:44
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Tighclops posted:I think BSG lost me when they had the "good guys" crush a labour strike by threatening to blow the union leader's wife out an airlock, the rest of the religious stuff was as unsatisfying as it is IRL but given that BSG was always based on a religious epic at least it wasn't wholly unexpected Both it and 24 have aged incredibly poorly, yes.
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May 23, 2023 22:49
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Barry Foster posted:Straight into my veins Wow, not often you see both kinds of Excelsior in one shot zoux posted:While we're talking about sci fi, do you guys think Dr Who occupies the same pop cultural niche in Britain that ST does over here? It's a different-shaped niche, I feel like. British Star Trek seems like Blake's 7. (The Federation are the baddies in that one.) zoux posted:It was always steeped in religion and god did it. The original 1970s version was directly rooted in Glen A. Larson's Mormon faith and references Mormon theology heavily, fwiw Kesper North fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 23:46
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Kobol is Kolob and pretty transparently so.
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May 24, 2023 00:04
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Arivia posted:You started with the miniseries right? Just checking, because that’s where all the character intros are. What happened was I started the miniseries and then first show eps and fell off, then like a few weeks later was like "oh yeah I wanted to give BSG a shot" and started it and saw I had already tried this so I picked up where I left off to see if I'd swing into it then. Has worked for me for shows before, but not this time. Plus it was less "idk who these people are" it was "oh I don't like you but you're definitely.not going away." I was more curious than anything to see how I felt about their spiritual elements. I suspect the more vague of a god and spirituality it has the more it would bother me. I like my gods and spiritually to be rooted in something old and lovely.
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May 24, 2023 00:41
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Sash! posted:Kobol is Kolob and pretty transparently so. Yeah, 70s BSG was "What if Mormons in Space" and 00s BSG was "Turns out Mormonism is a cult, Catholicism is the correct Christianity."
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May 24, 2023 00:43
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zoux posted:While we're talking about sci fi, do you guys think Dr Who occupies the same pop cultural niche in Britain that ST does over here? No, Star Trek occupies the same pop cultural niche in the UK as Star Trek does in the US. Dr Who feels like it has a much broader demographic. One that often likes Harry Potter and doesn't really watch much other Sci Fi honestly. In that I'm talking almost entirely about the revival Dr Who. I always find that Dr Who is really rule-less and because just anything at all can happen it means nothing matters, so I can't invest myself in the story. At least in Star Trek pre discovery/picard I felt like the story carried on from what was introduced previously in the episode. Who doesn't really care about that poo poo.
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May 24, 2023 02:16
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Taear posted:No, Star Trek occupies the same pop cultural niche in the UK as Star Trek does in the US. Yeah, it used to be an accepted cultural myth in the UK that the only director of the BBC not to be knighted by the Queen was the one who cancelled Doctor Who in the 80s, it was THAT much of a cultural mainstay for England.
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May 24, 2023 02:38
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Red Dwarf is also, very rightly, consistently popular; the most recent movie was the most watched thing on the UKTV channel Dave in 7 years.
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May 24, 2023 03:10
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Taear posted:No, Star Trek occupies the same pop cultural niche in the UK as Star Trek does in the US. Doctor Who will change it's rules, but it's usually something they make a Deal out of because they care about the past and past stories. If nothing else TNG/DS9/Voy are more episodic generally than the average nuWho season.
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May 24, 2023 03:42
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Khanstant posted:Doctor Who will change it's rules, but it's usually something they make a Deal out of because they care about the past and past stories. If nothing else TNG/DS9/Voy are more episodic generally than the average nuWho season. Time travel often feels very chaotic to viewers, I think. A lot of people complained about Moffat's clockwork plots (one of the new Doctor Who writers/showrunners) feeling like no rules applied, although they were internally consistent, just opaque and incredibly woven into themselves. People also have the same opinions about a lot of Star Trek time travel episodes unless it's really, really clear.
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May 24, 2023 04:10
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